Specifically, what is your minimum threshold to call 2017 season a success?

Because this hire wasn't just made for 2017. If the Gophers go only 6-6 in 2017 but in the 2018 season wins the national championship, is it not a home run hire?

Of course it would be.

However, this thread is about our expectations for next season.

If the Gophers go 4-8 next season, it will be an absolute disappointment. That doesn't mean that I think we should fire Fleck, I think that would be insane to not give a new coach a 3-4 years. However, 2017 would NOT meet expectations.
 

Of course it would be.

However, this thread is about our expectations for next season.

If the Gophers go 4-8 next season, it will be an absolute disappointment. That doesn't mean that I think we should fire Fleck, I think that would be insane to not give a new coach a 3-4 years. However, 2017 would NOT meet expectations
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I think this is completely fair. 4-8 is always a disappointment.
 

You can do whatever you want. I was merely explaining my mindset.

Thanks for the permission. So no expectations, predictions or threshold from you for 2017...other than the games get played.
 

Because this hire wasn't just made for 2017. If the Gophers go only 6-6 in 2017 but in the 2018 season wins the national championship, is it not a home run hire?

Firm grasp of the obvious is what you got there...check my posts on this thread. I think he can get us to the Rose bowl on 1/1/20. Doesn't mean I can't have reasonable expectations for this year and be disappointed if they are not met.
 

I have tried to explain this to the Fleck supporters, and they seem unwilling or unable to understand.

I am A Gopher Fan. I want to see the Gophers succeed. By extension, that means I want to see Fleck succeed.

BUT - BUT - BUT - BUT: I liked Claeys as a coach, and I just don't understand why the Fleck people seem to have this need to denigrate and dismiss everything that Kill and Claeys brought to this program.

Remember where this program was under Brewster? Take a look at the program today. It is in a better place. Better overall talent - players going to class - getting good grades. The program is better off now than it was when Kill and Claeys took over. yes, there was an incident - but that does not negate all of the positive things that took place over the last few years.

yes, there is still room for improvement. BUT, this is not a program in disarray.

And, I still maintain that the term "culture" is being used in so many ways as to become virtually meaningless. Just repeating the word over and over again does not imbue the term with some magical significance.

I AM a Gopher fan. BUT - if the Fleck people keep bashing Claeys and denying the progress this program has made, you make it harder for me and others in my camp to accept Fleck.

YOU ARE DEFEATING YOUR OWN PURPOSE. WHY CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

Great points. Actually, Claeys may have had the best record since Bierman if you include the two games Kill sat out in 2014 and the two more in 2015 - all UM victories. Claeys would then be 15-8, rather than 11-8. Of course, he's gone and we all hope Fleck has a great tenure (Bierman was a 71% winner, no one else close to that).
 


Because this hire wasn't just made for 2017. If the Gophers go only 6-6 in 2017 but in the 2018 season wins the national championship, is it not a home run hire?

So that means if they slip to 6-7 (6-6 gets them a bowl game) but come back in 2018, by going say, 10-2 in the regular season, win the Division and lose the B1G Championship game we need to run Fleck and his staff out of town? Even if he wins the January 1st game and they end-up at 11-3?

That makes the hire a what, "RBI Single" in your book?

You are setting expectations far to high IMHO...
 

So that means if they slip to 6-7 (6-6 gets them a bowl game) but come back in 2018, by going say, 10-2 in the regular season, win the Division and lose the B1G Championship game we need to run Fleck and his staff out of town? Even if he wins the January 1st game and they end-up at 11-3?

That makes the hire a what, "RBI Single" in your book?

You are setting expectations far to high IMHO...

Never said I'm expecting a national championship in year two.
 

Thanks for the permission. So no expectations, predictions or threshold from you for 2017...other than the games get played.

Expectations: Whatever happens, people on this board will run into their corners and make the same points they have since the hire.
Predictions: 6-8 victories (and that will get you the 'over' victory in Vegas).
Threshold: Not really - too many subjective variables for me personally.
 

Expectations: Whatever happens, people on this board will run into their corners and make the same points they have since the hire.
Predictions: 6-8 victories (and that will get you the 'over' victory in Vegas).
Threshold: Not really - too many subjective variables for me personally.

Solid post, thanks. We are more in agreement than not...
 



Expectations: Whatever happens, people on this board will run into their corners and make the same points they have since the hire.
Predictions: 6-8 victories (and that will get you the 'over' victory in Vegas).
Threshold: Not really - too many subjective variables for me personally.
Agree with all of the above.
 

“There could be a star from last year that says, ‘I don’t know if I like this. I don’t know if I belong here,’ ” Fleck said. “ ‘They want me to be elite in all four areas (athletically, academically, socially and spiritually) and I only like football or I just like this.’ ’ There will be a lot of questions answered after spring, to be honest with you.”

This is tamping down expectations don't you think?
 

Never said I'm expecting a national championship in year two.

Nah, you just set the "home run hire" threshold there.

Though to be fair, you tried to set the expectations for 2017 back to .500. :rolleyes:
 

“There could be a star from last year that says, ‘I don’t know if I like this. I don’t know if I belong here,’ ” Fleck said. “ ‘They want me to be elite in all four areas (athletically, academically, socially and spiritually) and I only like football or I just like this.’ ’ There will be a lot of questions answered after spring, to be honest with you.”

This is tamping down expectations don't you think?
It certainly suggests that there is a significant change in culture or whatever someone wants to call it. Although Fleck said it wasn't a "rebuild" or whatever term he used, I think he was talking in terms of talent and not attitude or personal philosophy. In the beginning at WMU, he had to start with a significant lack of talent. When you get to start with talent in a couple of the position groups, like RB, LB, and a few remaining DBs, it's a head start from his WMU task.
 



You are going to have up and down seasons regardless. I think if you can start beating Wisconsin, Iowa and Nebraska on a more frequent and consistent basis, that will change the dynamics of the Gopher football program considerably. To think that this program has only beaten their top rival 2 times in the last 22 years is pretty sad. For as successful as Glen Mason was at Minnesota, he was just 2-8 against Wisconsin in his 10 years. Heck, Jim Wacker even had 2 wins against Wisconsin.

If you are going to change the culture of the program and take that next step, you need to start by beating your rivals Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska more consistently. And beating teams like Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan when you have opportunities to do so. Those are the wins that are going to get your program some attention.

You can win 9 games every year, but unless you start beating some ranked opponents or your rivalry/trophy games, it's not going to get you very far as a program. There was a reason why the 9-4 Gophers were not ranked last year.

Minnesota plays for 3 of the most prestigious trophies in college football, it's time to start winning some of these trophies back! And that's not even counting the broken chair trophy
 

You are going to have up and down seasons regardless. I think if you can start beating Wisconsin, Iowa and Nebraska on a more frequent and consistent basis, that will change the dynamics of the Gopher football program considerably. To think that this program has only beaten their top rival 2 times in the last 22 years is pretty sad. For as successful as Glen Mason was at Minnesota, he was just 2-8 against Wisconsin in his 10 years. Heck, Jim Wacker even had 2 wins against Wisconsin.

If you are going to change the culture of the program and take that next step, you need to start by beating your rivals Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska more consistently. And beating teams like Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan when you have opportunities to do so. Those are the wins that are going to get your program some attention.

You can win 9 games every year, but unless you start beating some ranked opponents or your rivalry/trophy games, it's not going to get you very far as a program. There was a reason why the 9-4 Gophers were not ranked last year.

Minnesota plays for 3 of the most prestigious trophies in college football, it's time to start winning some of these trophies back! And that's not even counting the broken chair trophy

Clearly the expectation from Coyle with Fleck is much more than bumping along at 8 regular season wins, so beating WI with some frequency will need to happen, and soon. I think Gophs have shown recently that with the talent they have now, they can beat beat NE and IA with some frequency. That's why I see 8 wins this year.
 






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