Reusse: Fleck says failure is growth, so there's growth in his first 'U' result

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PitinoFan said:
Great points. 2014 was arguably a better season than 2016, other than the bowl loss - a win against Wisconsin away from playing in the B1G title game. That was a more complete team, in my opinion. The next season? 6-7. 2017 could be similar to 2015 for reasons cited here numerous times. This is a 3+ year process. Now, if we find out today that a bunch of the DBs are cleared, and they actually decide to stay, I'll probably change my expectations.


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There seem to be a lot of angry Gopherholers who seem to be ready to pounce if PJ doesn't win about 10 games next year.

You can see the saliva dripping from the corners of their mouths just waiting to rip PJ. In their mind it's "There's no reason for us to have less wins" at the same time, they can't name our starting QB.

It's hilarious. It will be a hard 10-12 months for them with all of that anger residing within their hearts.
 

the.chucker said:
so, really this is PJ's first class of recruits---I hate it when people say wait til he gets his own players in place---well he took a lot of a MAC school, hopefully they are B1G quality that slipped under the radar of IU, PU, NW, Sconny, MSU, etc etc etc...because this team and class is all his.
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OK, so 25 players are all his. But what about the rest of the team? One recruiting class is about 1/4th of a scholarship roster.
 

GopherHomer said:
While this statement is factually true, it means nothing. I believe Claeys would have won between 5-7 games next year (before a potential bowl). With the questions at QB, OL, and DB 2017 likely was going to be a step back regardless of the coach.

As for recruiting results, I'm satisfied (but not giddy) about what Fleck did. It's impressive that he was able to basically bring in a 'typical' Gopher class in such a short time, but I think for him to be considered a successful hire long-term he will need to bring in classes in the 20-30 range. I will be slightly disappointed if next year's class isn't in that range.

Unless, of course, he proves to be just as good at talent evaluation and the 'coaching up' of recruits as the previous administration. Even if the next five years merely equals the success of the previous five, I will be happy about the change. The added bonus of Fleck's fun personality will be enough to tip the scales for me.
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I do think this is being overlooked by some. The team Fleck is inheriting is not the dumpster fire that Kill got from Brewster but it is also lacking in some really key areas. The fact that there is not a clear cut #1 QB on the roster ready to take over for Mitch is an indictment of the recruiting/development ability of the Kill/Claeys regime. Yes they found and developed some guys over the years but they also failed in regards to recruiting/developing the most important position on the roster.

Leaving aside all the other potential issues (OL, suspended players, lack of WR) only those determined to see Fleck fail would demand a 9 win season from a team that as of right now has no clue who the starting QB is going to be when the season starts.
 

Face The Facts said:
There seem to be a lot of angry Gopherholers who seem to be ready to pounce if PJ doesn't win about 10 games next year.

You can see the saliva dripping from the corners of their mouths just waiting to rip PJ. In their mind it's "There's no reason for us to have less wins" at the same time, they can't name our starting QB.

It's hilarious. It will be a hard 10





I think the "angriness" comes from PJ himself with all his enthusiasm and over the top "shenanigans"...I am not coming down on him, but can't think of a better word...he is lighting a fire under a lot of bandwagon jumpers and faithful...he needs to perform on the field with mainly players better suited for MAC than the B1G...
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Face The Facts said:
There seem to be a lot of angry Gopherholers who seem to be ready to pounce if PJ doesn't win about 10 games next year.
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TC faced the same thing.

There's a chunk of the oh woe is us minnesota fans who poop on everything they can... then complain like anyone should just win a ton of games.
 


Face The Facts said:
There seem to be a lot of angry Gopherholers who seem to be ready to pounce if PJ doesn't win about 10 games next year.

You can see the saliva dripping from the corners of their mouths just waiting to rip PJ. In their mind it's "There's no reason for us to have less wins" at the same time, they can't name our starting QB.

It's hilarious. It will be a hard 10-12 months for them with all of that anger residing within their hearts.
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And there were WAY more who pounced when they didn't win twelve this year.

Forget that already? :D
 

Reusse is a baseball guy first and foremost. He writes stories about " town baseball " that only people in the town gives a rate ass about.His beloved Twins will lose another 100 games this year and he'll take it out on the other sports teams, with the Gophers being a prime target. He doesn't like the fact that baseball is no longer the national pastime ,being replaced by the NFL..
 

EG#9 said:
A lot of bad takes in this thread. The class you are counting as Kill's first and comparing it to Fleck's first class had 5 of the top 6 rated recruits by Rivals as Brewster guys. The outlier is a JUCO DB named Drayquan Crawford that I am not sure ever played for the Gophers. In 2017, Fleck has 5 of the top 6 rated recruits in the Gophers class. They are literally polar opposite.

As for expectations for next year? I still don't see where this great foundation of talent is. This team didn't beat a top 25 team all year, loses its Quarterback, it's top Wide Receiver, its top Offensive Lineman, and potentially its entire starting Secondary. Who were you thrilled about taking over for Leidner? And if you have an answer why were you not screaming for that guy most of last season? What makes you think Oregon State is a likely win after barely squeaking by them at home this season? Purdue gave Minnesota a tough game last year with an interim coach and now the Gophers go at Purdue. Last year the Gophers had 5 conference wins and 4 of them came against first year (or interim) coaches. This year, they play one first year coach.

I am not saying 8 or 9 wins is impossible, but to act like it's likely or expected is insane to me given all the questions surrounding the roster. This seems like the type of thing that people did to Brewster when they pretended he wasn't left a god awful roster. That year we had the long time senior QB (Cupito) and our best passing game target (Spaeth) graduate and also had major questions in the secondary. The comparison is even more apt when you consider that a number of the more talented defensive players on the roster Brewster inherited also had their own legal issue. I am not saying the roster is in the same type of shape it was in when Brewster took over, just that expecting improvement when roster quality appears to be down instead of up at a number of key positions is setting the new guy up for failure.
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Meh...I think you are overstating the talent we lose. Leidner? It really couldn't have gotten any worse. Woli? Decent senior season, but he's woefully miscast as a #1 WR. Pirsig was a solid, but injury prone and hardly dominant OT.

Go back and take a look at the 2007 roster, the overall talent is PITIFUL. The 2017 team will return: Smith/Brooks on offense, plus a whole slew of very talented young defensive players who will only get better (Coughlin, Martin, Winfield, Barber, Cashman, etc). Add that to the talented veteran players coming back (Richardson, Elmore, Poock, Celestin, 3 starters from the OL, hopefully Lingen) and we could be cooking with something.

Agreed that the secondary is diminished, but the recent suspensions being lifted will really help that.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
Meh...I think you are overstating the talent we lose. Leidner? It really couldn't have gotten any worse. Woli? Decent senior season, but he's woefully miscast as a #1 WR. Pirsig was a solid, but injury prone and hardly dominant OT.

Go back and take a look at the 2007 roster, the overall talent is PITIFUL. The 2017 team will return: Smith/Brooks on offense, plus a whole slew of very talented young defensive players who will only get better (Coughlin, Martin, Winfield, Barber, Cashman, etc). Add that to the talented veteran players coming back (Richardson, Elmore, Poock, Celestin, 3 starters from the OL, hopefully Lingen) and we could be cooking with something.

Agreed that the secondary is diminished, but the recent suspensions being lifted will really help that.
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With Winfield back the defense should be fine but while I agree that losing Leidner and Wollitarsky are not massive losses from a talent standpoint there is still the fact that there aren't any real proven options waiting in the wings to take over. Team is definitely not void of talent but there are some massive question marks at some key positions and it is tough to feel great about the teams prospects without knowing what is going to be there at the QB position.

I disagree with the assessment that it couldn't be worse then it was with Leidner. We saw Rhoda in one start and that was definitely worse, all the other guys are basically complete unknowns at this point. For all his deficiencies, Leidner was still the best we had and the old staff wasn't able to find someone to take his job so the potential for the teams QB play to be even worse next year is still there until one of these guys proves he can do the job. Hopefully we see the heir apparent at QB quickly and he blows Leidner's play out of the water.
 



MNVCGUY said:
With Winfield back the defense should be fine but while I agree that losing Leidner and Wollitarsky are not massive losses from a talent standpoint there is still the fact that there aren't any real proven options waiting in the wings to take over. Team is definitely not void of talent but there are some massive question marks at some key positions and it is tough to feel great about the teams prospects without knowing what is going to be there at the QB position.

I disagree with the assessment that it couldn't be worse then it was with Leidner. We saw Rhoda in one start and that was definitely worse, all the other guys are basically complete unknowns at this point. For all his deficiencies, Leidner was still the best we had and the old staff wasn't able to find someone to take his job so the potential for the teams QB play to be even worse next year is still there until one of these guys proves he can do the job. Hopefully we see the heir apparent at QB quickly and he blows Leidner's play out of the water.
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I think it's interesting how we put so much in one game when the performance is subpar. There's been plenty of players with one big game performance who do nothing more.

Gophs will be fine at QB, seriously. It's just interesting as well that replacing a subpar veteran starter has somehow become a concern...especially after all the in season trashing and year-end "good riddance" comments. They won 9 games last year with his performance.
 

Goldmember said:
Which recruiting rankings is he referring to?

This looks like the first class that I can remember ever that Minnesota did not lose a single player to an FBS program.

Surprised the media hasn't mentioned that since "gotta get then in-state guys first" has been their mantra for decades.
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Well, one guy picked NDSU over us. Stuck w them rather.


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The real problem was not having a full staff for the first week or so. Without a full staff and limited time and a sex scandal what could we expect? To get a full class of fairly solid rankings is a small miracle. He waited until after the bowl game to take a P5 job knowing it would make it harder to transition. His style is not for everyone. Ruesse hates all that is the U of M. Kill was too "Awe Shucks" for him, Brewster was a Blow Hard. I dont always disagree with Pat but with this one I do.
 




PMWinSTP said:
I think it's interesting how we put so much in one game when the performance is subpar. There's been plenty of players with one big game performance who do nothing more.

Gophs will be fine at QB, seriously. It's just interesting as well that replacing a subpar veteran starter has somehow become a concern...especially after all the in season trashing and year-end "good riddance" comments. They won 9 games last year with his performance.
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In regards to Rhoda, I never thought he was going to be an option and the fact that he was the best available backup option again speaks to just how badly the old staff did in terms of recruiting the QB position. It is nothing against Rhoda he just isn't a Big Ten caliber QB and he most likely never will be.

The reason it is a concern in regards to replacing Leidner is because for as average as he was in so many ways the staff could not find a replacement for him and now that he is gone we are looking at a collection of players that couldn't beat him out and some new faces that we don't really know anything about.

Maybe these concerns will vanish quickly as we get into spring ball and start getting reports on how guys are doing. Obviously that would be the hope but right now when you look at the QB depth chart it is really just one massive question mark.

I just hope Fleck proves to be a better recruiter of the QB position then Kill/Claeys turned out to be.
 

MNVCGUY said:
In regards to Rhoda, I never thought he was going to be an option and the fact that he was the best available backup option again speaks to just how badly the old staff did in terms of recruiting the QB position. It is nothing against Rhoda he just isn't a Big Ten caliber QB and he most likely never will be.

The reason it is a concern in regards to replacing Leidner is because for as average as he was in so many ways the staff could not find a replacement for him and now that he is gone we are looking at a collection of players that couldn't beat him out and some new faces that we don't really know anything about.

Maybe these concerns will vanish quickly as we get into spring ball and start getting reports on how guys are doing. Obviously that would be the hope but right now when you look at the QB depth chart it is really just one massive question mark.

I just hope Fleck proves to be a better recruiter of the QB position then Kill/Claeys turned out to be.
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This isn't necessarily true. He was only the backup because Claeys wanted to redshirt both Green and Croft. If Leidner had gone down with a season ending injury I would not confidently say Rhoda would have been the starter the rest of the season. Especially when you consider Rhoda was transferring until Claeys got fired. You don't transfer if you are going to be the starting QB.
 

bottlebass said:
This isn't necessarily true. He was only the backup because Claeys wanted to redshirt both Green and Croft. If Leidner had gone down with a season ending injury I would not confidently say Rhoda would have been the starter the rest of the season. Especially when you consider Rhoda was transferring until Claeys got fired. You don't transfer if you are going to be the starting QB.
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Sometimes I think Claeys wasn't all there...
He seemed really worried about getting Croft that year back, but I'm not sure what it does in the end.
 

Face The Facts said:
Sometimes I think Claeys wasn't all there...
He seemed really worried about getting Croft that year back, but I'm not sure what it does in the end.
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Why not get it back if it doesn't hurt the team and decrease wins?
 


Face The Facts said:
Sometimes I think Claeys wasn't all there...
He seemed really worried about getting Croft that year back, but I'm not sure what it does in the end.
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They didn't take a loss with Mitch out did they?

Why play Croft if you don't have to?
 

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