Baylor lawsuit alleges 52 rapes by football players in 4 years

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Haven't seen this posted here yet.

"A Baylor University graduate who says she was raped by football players in 2013 sued the university Friday. Her lawsuit includes an allegation that 31 Baylor football players committed 52 acts of rape, including five gang rapes, between 2011 and 2014 -- an estimate that far exceeds the number previously provided by school officials.

The woman, identified in the suit as Elizabeth Doe, reports being brutally gang raped by then-Baylor football players Tre'Von Armstead and Shamycheal Chatman after a party on April 18, 2013.

Those football players were previously named as suspects in a police report for a rape on that date, but were never charged.

The woman, who graduated from Baylor in 2014, has sued Baylor for Title IX violations and negligence. "

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/bayl...lture-cites-52-rapes-football-players-4-years
 

I'm surprised that they even have a football team anymore.
 

That regent including the Gophers in the same sentence as Baylor seems even more stupid now than when he said it. And thought he was an idiot when he said it.
 

So when people here argue for eliminating the EOAA, think for a second what that means. Criminal charges weren't filed in those cases either. Without Title IX protections, many sexual assult victims wouldn't have any chance at justice.
Regardless of your opinion on the merit of the gopher case, examples like Baylor (an extreme example) illustrate why EOAA boards are needed.

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1385md said:
So when people here argue for eliminating the EOAA, think for a second what that means. Criminal charges weren't filed in those cases either. Without Title IX protections, many sexual assult victims wouldn't have any chance at justice.
Regardless of your opinion on the merit of the gopher case, examples like Baylor (an extreme example) illustrate why EOAA boards are needed.

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The Baylor case exhibits how law enforcement does a disservice to women victimized by sexual assault- EOAA boards don't provide justice to those truly abused and in their current form can ruin lives of those unjustly accused.


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1385md said:
So when people here argue for eliminating the EOAA, think for a second what that means. Criminal charges weren't filed in those cases either. Without Title IX protections, many sexual assult victims wouldn't have any chance at justice.
Regardless of your opinion on the merit of the gopher case, examples like Baylor (an extreme example) illustrate why EOAA boards are needed.

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Click to expand...



There is no "justice" per se. If the accused are guilty they got off easy. If the accused are not guilty but charged by the EOAA in a process in which it is impossible to prove one's innocence then they are horrifically wronged. Our standard of justice has presumed innocence in regards to crimes like sexual assault. This is not at all similar to the "getting fired from a job for misbehavior" scenarios that have been raised. Throwing out standards of proof, having an impossible to prove or disprove affirmative consent rule, and biased, self-selected panels operating behind closed doors without availability of evidence or ability to cross-examine is wrong.
 

Maybe justice isn't the right term, but for campus sexual assults, those boards give the victims a voice that they wouldn't otherwise have.

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1385md said:
Maybe justice isn't the right term, but for campus sexual assults, those boards give the victims a voice that they wouldn't otherwise have.

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And the accused lose rights they would normally have. I don't want to live in a world with disciplinary systems based on emotional arguments, prejudice, and bias.
 




Pompous Elitist said:
And the accused lose rights they would normally have. I don't want to live in a world with disciplinary systems based on emotional arguments, prejudice, and bias.
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No system will ever be perfect, but stats seem to show more non-prosecuted cases than false accusations. I know people bristle at the notion of affirmative consent, but that's how I'm going to teach my boys. If you aren't 100% sure it's consenual, it's not worth the risk.

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Send Kimberly Hewitt to Waco, ASAP.
 

If you haven't already, I highly recommend reading the Baylor message boards. These guys think there is a conspiracy to destroy Baylor football.
 





According to our resident attorney, serial intercourse with strangers is a choice we should not judge.
 

1385md said:
So when people here argue for eliminating the EOAA, think for a second what that means. Criminal charges weren't filed in those cases either. Without Title IX protections, many sexual assult victims wouldn't have any chance at justice.
Regardless of your opinion on the merit of the gopher case, examples like Baylor (an extreme example) illustrate why EOAA boards are needed.

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Click to expand...

Two wrongs don't make a right.

If EOAA boards had the power and the responsibility to see all relevant evidence to the case, openly told people when they were under investigation and gave them a chance to get their attorney, used a higher standard of evidence, had the resources and the legal power of police to conduct an investigation, were made up of people who didn't have a stake in the case and didn't advocate for one side, used an independent jury, allowed the defendant's attorney to question the accuser and all witnesses, and allowed the accused to choose to make all of the details minus anything personally identifying public, then EOAA boards would be needed. The problem is that they are frequently set up in a way that leads them to not investigate properly, conduct themselves in a way that would get the case thrown out in an appeals court 99% of the time if they were a court of law, and to start with bias against anyone accused of sexual misconduct.

There are cases like this where they do good, but that doesn't justify all of the people, almost all male, who get thrown out of school when they weren't actually guilty.
 

1385md said:
No system will ever be perfect, but stats seem to show more non-prosecuted cases than false accusations.

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This ^. The whole reason these EOAA's and title 9 cases have come about is because of the job law enforcement and the court system have done in handling this issue on college campuses.

Colleges and Universities have taken these matters into their own hands because they have decided to have standards of conduct that are higher than a guilty verdict for sexual assault or rape in a court of law. The pendulum is now swinging the other way. Awareness of all of this can only help. This process coming to light and being scrutinized should help as well when it comes to figuring out the best solution for this problem. It's obvious that enough women have had enough and that's why the situation is at where it's at.


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Some Day...Maybe said:
This ^. The whole reason these EOAA's and title 9 cases have come about is because of the job law enforcement and the court system have done in handling this issue on college campuses.

Colleges and Universities have taken these matters into their own hands because they have decided to have standards of conduct that are higher than a guilty verdict for sexual assault or rape in a court of law. The pendulum is now swinging the other way. Awareness of all of this can only help. This process coming to light and being scrutinized should help as well when it comes to figuring out the best solution for this problem. It's obvious that enough women have had enough and that's why the situation is at where it's at.


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And the 75% of the population that does not go to college should do what? Assume that the law of the land doesn't sufficiently protect them?
 

Fifty two daughters and sisters raped by Baylor men. Football men. This doesn't happen at Alabama. Michigan. Ohio State (although they may have tats of questionable character) or even Southern Cal. Message is the poor schools attract the poorer character athletes.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
This ^. The whole reason these EOAA's and title 9 cases have come about is because of the job law enforcement and the court system have done in handling this issue on college campuses.

Colleges and Universities have taken these matters into their own hands because they have decided to have standards of conduct that are higher than a guilty verdict for sexual assault or rape in a court of law. The pendulum is now swinging the other way. Awareness of all of this can only help. This process coming to light and being scrutinized should help as well when it comes to figuring out the best solution for this problem. It's obvious that enough women have had enough and that's why the situation is at where it's at.


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Thats not really true. Most legal experts are really uncomfortable with the processes. Schools were forced to comply by a political appointee of President Obama. Their 2011 interpretation of Title IX is IMO an overreach and overly broad. Title IX was meant to stop discrimination on the basis of gender in higher education. That laudable goal has been extended to now be an attempt to protect any female from the threat of any sort of perceived or real sexual harassment or assault. Also a laudable goal but the methods employed are terribly flawed and unfair and ironically violate the right of men to higher education.
 

In India, gang-rape is a national pastime second in popularity only to cricket.
 

1385md said:
No system will ever be perfect, but stats seem to show more non-prosecuted cases than false accusations. I know people bristle at the notion of affirmative consent, but that's how I'm going to teach my boys. If you aren't 100% sure it's consenual, it's not worth the risk.

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...and I'll bet most of the guys in Stalin's gulags actually were guilty of crimes like rape and murder as well. New standard: as long as we 'usually' don't railroad innocent people, the ends justify the means. How very progressive!
 

Did the 10 players on the Gopher team get a chance at Justice in this process? Two wrongs don't make a right. We don't know what happened that night, and at least part of the evening appeared to be consensual, yet everyone, consensual or not, involved or not is being hung out to dry. There are issues in our society with sexual assault. I'm all for not letting this stand, but railroading 10 students because we can't figure out how to address the issues we have with sexual assault situation only makes the outrage go away for a little while. It does nothing to solve the problem.
 


saintpaulguy said:
According to our resident attorney, serial intercourse with strangers is a choice we should not judge.
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if the people involved consent, why should we judge it. It only becomes an issue for me if any of the participants are involved against their will. Is is something I would participate in? No. Is it something that concerns me? again, only if someone is involved against their will. Was the accused? I doubt anyone that wasn't involved will ever know for sure.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
This ^. The whole reason these EOAA's and title 9 cases have come about is because of the job law enforcement and the court system have done in handling this issue on college campuses.

Colleges and Universities have taken these matters into their own hands because they have decided to have standards of conduct that are higher than a guilty verdict for sexual assault or rape in a court of law. The pendulum is now swinging the other way. Awareness of all of this can only help. This process coming to light and being scrutinized should help as well when it comes to figuring out the best solution for this problem. It's obvious that enough women have had enough and that's why the situation is at where it's at.


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Not really factually accurate. The schools weren't brought into this because law enforcement wasn't doing it's job. They were forced to get into this because the schools were rigging the system against the women. Schools manipulated stats by telling students to report cases to campus police and not real police and then underreported it, the schools swept cases under the rug to protect their reputations and the schools were violating the rights of their students. The punishment was to require the schools to create a system to handle these claims and bring it all into the light. The schools were the problem, not law enforcement.

The reason sex crimes are hard to prosecute is because there is rarely a witness and rarely more than a he said, she said situation. Juries can't convict on he said, she said, they need more so they often acquit. That isn't law enforcement, that is our constitution. And I like our constitution.
 

Oregon Gopher said:
The Baylor case exhibits how law enforcement does a disservice to women victimized by sexual assault- EOAA boards don't provide justice to those truly abused and in their current form can ruin lives of those unjustly accused.


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Did you read the texts? The cop exceeded his responsibilities by saying when the girl said no and there was a slap that she meant yes and was having fun. We need the EOAA because the cops call the AD and don't investigate for a week so that the players can destroy evidence and get lawyered up. There are statistics that say upwards of 25% of the female students on American college campuses get sexually assaulted...often by athletes and fraternity guys. When it happens to your daughter you won't take it lightly. They need the EOAA because the cops are on the players sides...as are the coaches...as are the teammates...as are the ADs. From the extent of the investigation it doesn't look like any of the guys were unjustly accused of breaking the student code of conduct...all they had to do was lie to the board helping cover up for their teammates and they violated it.
 

caliGopher said:
Did the 10 players on the Gopher team get a chance at Justice in this process? Two wrongs don't make a right. We don't know what happened that night, and at least part of the evening appeared to be consensual, yet everyone, consensual or not, involved or not is being hung out to dry. There are issues in our society with sexual assault. I'm all for not letting this stand, but railroading 10 students because we can't figure out how to address the issues we have with sexual assault situation only makes the outrage go away for a little while. It does nothing to solve the problem.
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How can you be sure all 10 are being "railroaded" when there are legitimate concerns about consent with accused #s 2 thru 5. None of even claim that they explicitly recieved her consent. In addition, 5 of the guys are only being accused of harrassment and hindering the investigation via lying.
The comps to gulags are ridiculous since the penalties reccommended only range from temporary suspension from the football team to being kicked out of school. There are not facing execution or life in prison. Even if the penalties aren't reduced, these kids will be able to continue playing football at a diferrent school.
Hopefully they learn to ask for consent before assuming they can take their turn with a woman. None of the men in the train even claim to have asked the woman what she wanted. They just accepted their teamates claim that she was good to go. They claim it was all consensual, but none of them ever verified that to be true. After the 3rd, 4th, or Xth number a quick "Hey, are you still up for this?" would have been a decent thing to do.

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1385md said:
How can you be sure all 10 are being "railroaded" when there are legitimate concerns about consent with accused #s 2 thru 5. None of even claim that they explicitly recieved her consent. In addition, 5 of the guys are only being accused of harrassment and hindering the investigation via lying.
The comps to gulags are ridiculous since the penalties reccommended only range from temporary suspension from the football team to being kicked out of school. There are not facing execution or life in prison. Even if the penalties aren't reduced, these kids will be able to continue playing football at a diferrent school.
Hopefully they learn to ask for consent before assuming they can take their turn with a woman. None of the men in the train even claim to have asked the woman what she wanted. They just accepted their teamates claim that she was good to go. They claim it was all consensual, but none of them ever verified that to be true. After the 3rd, 4th, or Xth number a quick "Hey, are you still up for this?" would have been a decent thing to do.

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I don't disagree with anything you say, except that they are being railroaded. They may be guilty but that doesn't justify this process


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