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bga1

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This is the remaining problem for the Gophers on offense especially. As much as Reggie has been an upgrade at center our inside guys just have a problem being part of the overall offense. The assist to turnover issue is beyond atrocious.

Lynch 8.4 points 8 assists and 23 turnovers
Murphy 9.9 points 17 assists and 44 turnovers
Konate 2.3 points 2 assists and 13 turnovers
Curry 5.9 points 22 assists and 26 turnovers

The first three are 27 assists and 80 turnovers. Yipes a 1-3 ratio!

Curry is the only one with a respectable assist turnover ratio and for the most part- he doesn't post up he plays further from the basket. So the Gopher guards and forwards know- as does the opposition- that when the ball goes inside, it's not coming back out and often times the Gopher center will not score. This puts a ton of pressure on our guards as the opposition is not that worried about our bigs scoring at will and they can also then double down if the ball happens to go inside- because they know our bigs won't pass it.

I think Pitino has to fix this aspect- get them to play more inside out. As Wisconsin showed last night, the ball would go inside then out and often back in again to a center in better position. Happ and Hayes each has more than 50 assists and about a 2-1 assist to turnover ratio. Their ability to finish and to find team mates is the difference between the two teams.

Murphy just doesn't pair well with Lynch. I'd start Curry with Lynch. Murphy should be getting the ball 4 feet from the basket- not 12-15 feet out and then attempting, usually in vain, to dribble in.
 

We are definitely too predictable on offense. Murphy has looked very out of sync outside the paint and his one spin move is not working well. Pitino needs to make some adjustments if we are going to be successful.
 

bga1 said:
This is the remaining problem for the Gophers on offense especially. As much as Reggie has been an upgrade at center our inside guys just have a problem being part of the overall offense. The assist to turnover issue is beyond atrocious.

Lynch 8.4 points 8 assists and 23 turnovers
Murphy 9.9 points 17 assists and 44 turnovers
Konate 2.3 points 2 assists and 13 turnovers
Curry 5.9 points 22 assists and 26 turnovers

The first three are 27 assists and 80 turnovers. Yipes a 1-3 ratio!

Curry is the only one with a respectable assist turnover ratio and for the most part- he doesn't post up he plays further from the basket. So the Gopher guards and forwards know- as does the opposition- that when the ball goes inside, it's not coming back out and often times the Gopher center will not score. This puts a ton of pressure on our guards as the opposition is not that worried about our bigs scoring at will and they can also then double down if the ball happens to go inside- because they know our bigs won't pass it.

I think Pitino has to fix this aspect- get them to play more inside out. As Wisconsin showed last night, the ball would go inside then out and often back in again to a center in better position. Happ and Hayes each has more than 50 assists and about a 2-1 assist to turnover ratio. Their ability to finish and to find team mates is the difference between the two teams.

Murphy just doesn't pair well with Lynch. I'd start Curry with Lynch. Murphy should be getting the ball 4 feet from the basket- not 12-15 feet out and then attempting, usually in vain, to dribble in.
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I agree. Murphy/Lynch is not working. Murphy works better with Konate. A swap of Murphy and Curry is warranted. Based on how little Murphy played in the 2nd half yesterday, it appears Pitino may have reached the same conclusion.
 

Interesting data and what you showed Wisconsin's Bigs were at I couldn't believe it until I checked the data myself. Sorry to doubt you. And the data differences are just mind boggling. Happ was 6 assists to 1 TO yesterday along with his quiet 28 PTs. Of course he could have been called for 7-10 turnovers with his two pivot feet that he gets away with. It seems to suggest to me that when we win, it is with guts, energy and defense and tossing in an average offense.
 

I would be curious if anyone knows the average assist to TO ratio of Bigs in general? Is Wisconsin average or excellent and is Minnesota average or bad?
 


Well stated beeg. Watching Happ work on offense was impressive. Severely lacking for Minnesota.
 

macgopher said:
I would be curious if anyone knows the average assist to TO ratio of Bigs in general? Is Wisconsin average or excellent and is Minnesota average or bad?
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It's a mixed bag- there are 3-4 sets of bigs like us on assists to TO, another group that is a bit better and then a group who are far better. Swanigan for example scores a ton but is getting a lot of assist and is like .8 to 1. Haas in the same offensive scheme is horrid. Northwestern- good. Indiana - good. Michigan State - just okay. We are toward the bottom but not without company.
 

Lynch is a great shot blocker but otherwise a terrible defender. Curry is Gophers' best and most talented big, but doesn't have the game experience of other guys.
 

BarnBurner said:
Well stated beeg. Watching Happ work on offense was impressive. Severely lacking for Minnesota.
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I would have liked to see our bigs stand their ground a bit more when getting backed down, take a charge or two. It also seemed like Happ used a chicken wing to hook his defender and get around him on multiple occasions, and I don't believe he was ever called for an offensive foul.
 



SelectionSunday said:
Lynch is a great shot blocker but otherwise a terrible defender. Curry is Gophers' best and most talented big, but doesn't have the game experience of other guys.
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Lynch has to figure out a way to stay on the court. He may be limited some in certain aspects of the game but this team is at its best when he is on the court. Not sure what can be done to limit the amount of fouls he draws but it was clear right off the bat that Wisconsin planned to go right at him in hopes of getting him in foul trouble.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Lynch is a great shot blocker but otherwise a terrible defender. Curry is Gophers' best and most talented big, but doesn't have the game experience of other guys.
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How can we get him that game experience:confused:
 

Ideally we should find a way to get Murphy deep paint touches where he can just go up and score or get fouled. It's disappointing that Murphy hasn't developed his jump shot or his ball handling since last season. If he had either of those aspects to his game, it would open up his game offensively. Murphy has proven he can't effectively pass out of the double team, so he's got to get the ball in a position where he can get a shot up before the help comes. I think Murphy might be most effective if he was in a lineup with Curry or even Hurt as the other "big". In that case, we could spread the floor more and make it more difficult to bring a second defender to Murphy. Of course the issue with that lineup would be on the other end of the court.
 

Part of this is how good the post player is offensively. Happ is a Frank clone. He is very talented...we have nobody within a million miles of his skills. Hayes can shoot...that doesn't describe any of our posts except for Curry emerging as a shooter. Lynch and Konate just aren't offensively talented, but I do think both have improved a lot since even the beginning of the season. It is what is, I think fits in this case.
I haven't taken the time to determine why Murphy was so much better offensively last year...was it because they had to stay home on King? As far as Murphy getting it deep in the post...I agree we need lob dunks and the like set up for him. He appears to have no effective offensive game beyond four feet. But, it's not easy to just repeatedly get it deep, especially without better shooters.
So, I think it's just bad offensive post players more than anything. Having said that, yes Lynch could kick it out of there but it's a skill...he's likely worse at that then just shooting...lesser of two evils. Intercepted kickouts are dunks on the other end. So, emphasis is to attack and hope we get an offensive putback.
 



GoodasGold said:
How can we get him that game experience:confused:
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He's getting it. He's learning to play defense without using his hands on the body when his matchup has the ball. It doesn't take long for him to be in foul trouble.
 


Cayman said:
I would have liked to see our bigs stand their ground a bit more when getting backed down, take a charge or two. It also seemed like Happ used a chicken wing to hook his defender and get around him on multiple occasions, and I don't believe he was ever called for an offensive foul.
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Agree with both of your points.
 

Cayman said:
I would have liked to see our bigs stand their ground a bit more when getting backed down, take a charge or two. It also seemed like Happ used a chicken wing to hook his defender and get around him on multiple occasions, and I don't believe he was ever called for an offensive foul.
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Said that very thing as I was watching the game.


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#coacheslivesmatter
 


comparisons

I actually have been surprised by Lynch's offense. It is not pretty but he is pretty effective considering he is a defensive specialist. The turnaround shot put and his dunks are leading the team at a 55% clip.

I would assume Wisconsin post players are higher skilled, but at times not as athletic as other top 25 teams. I am not surprised at their assist to turnover ratio's. I don't know that Lynch or BK would be affective at throwing it back out. Murphy being 6-6 probably has sight issues doing it.

Kind of interesting we are comparing ourselves to probably the big ten's best frontcourt? If we were to beat Wisconsin you would hope for a draw of some sort out of the big men and that our backcourt could beat them off the dribble. Hard to do that with Mason struggling.


60's Guy said:
Part of this is how good the post player is offensively. Happ is a Frank clone. He is very talented...we have nobody within a million miles of his skills. Hayes can shoot...that doesn't describe any of our posts except for Curry emerging as a shooter. Lynch and Konate just aren't offensively talented, but I do think both have improved a lot since even the beginning of the season.
So, I think it's just bad offensive post players more than anything. Having said that, yes Lynch could kick it out of there but it's a skill...he's likely worse at that then just shooting...lesser of two evils. Intercepted kickouts are dunks on the other end. So, emphasis is to attack and hope we get an offensive putback.
Click to expand...
 

SelectionSunday said:
I hear ya'. More PT for Curry!
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Why not start Konate' and Murphy with Lynch and Curry coming off the bench. If we are getting beat up early, it may only be for 2 or 3 minutes, if not then bring Lynch and Curry of the bench during the first media time out. That let's Lynch watch the pace of the game and we get some time with him without being in foul trouble. He has fouled out and insane 5 out of 7 Big Ten games and that cannot continue. It also continues to let the inexperienced Curry get a better feel for what he will experience once he gets into the game.

I know having Lynch come off of the bench would be a radical move but then so was starting Springs over McBrayer.
 

Cayman said:
I would have liked to see our bigs stand their ground a bit more when getting backed down, take a charge or two. It also seemed like Happ used a chicken wing to hook his defender and get around him on multiple occasions, and I don't believe he was ever called for an offensive foul.
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I can't remember the last time I saw the hook get called on an offensive player in the post in the NBA or college. They've completely given up on that rule.
 

march madness said:
Kind of interesting we are comparing ourselves to probably the big ten's best frontcourt? If we were to beat Wisconsin you would hope for a draw of some sort out of the big men and that our backcourt could beat them off the dribble. Hard to do that with Mason struggling.
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What's weird is that the Big Ten's best backcourt is actually Purdue, and the Gophers looked a lot better in that game. Of course, Painter left Haas on the bench most of the 2nd half and OT.
 

60's Guy said:
Happ is a Frank clone.
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Not really - the most glaring difference is that Happ attempts 99% of his FGs in the paint while Kaminsky was the kind of stretch 4/5 who could also knock down 3s. In terms of low post offensive effectiveness as well as the ability to spot and get the ball to the open man, Happ & Kaminsky do share those traits. Happ may be even be a bit better defensively in that he led the B1G in steals last year (and is among the leaders again). I don't think Happ's game translates as well to the next level, however, so he's likely to be around the whole four years (only a Soph right now). Haas and Swanigan were able to neutralize him - those are the type of guys who can handle him.
 

justthefacts said:
What's weird is that the Big Ten's best backcourt is actually Purdue, and the Gophers looked a lot better in that game. Of course, Painter left Haas on the bench most of the 2nd half and OT.
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You meant front court? I think that the reason the Gophers handled Swanigen and Haas better was that they were willing to take a risk doubling down on Haas and Swanigen betting that Purdue wouldn't consistently hit the three. With Wisconsin- they'll kill you if you start chasing.
 

macgopher said:
I would be curious if anyone knows the average assist to TO ratio of Bigs in general? Is Wisconsin average or excellent and is Minnesota average or bad?
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Anywhere from 2-1 to 3-1 turnover per assist!! So this does not seem to far of them the normal for bigs!
 

Atl Gopher said:
Why not start Konate' and Murphy with Lynch and Curry coming off the bench. If we are getting beat up early, it may only be for 2 or 3 minutes, if not then bring Lynch and Curry of the bench during the first media time out. That let's Lynch watch the pace of the game and we get some time with him without being in foul trouble. He has fouled out and insane 5 out of 7 Big Ten games and that cannot continue. It also continues to let the inexperienced Curry get a better feel for what he will experience once he gets into the game.

I know having Lynch come off of the bench would be a radical move but then so was starting Springs over McBrayer.
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Ego probably plays into it and who knows how Lynch would react to coming off the bench but it isn't a horrible idea. Somehow they need to figure out a way to keep him on the court but that is easier said then done, especially when teams are going to go right at him in hopes of getting him out of the game because they know we are a different team without him.
 

If we are going to do something Wisconsin does well, I would copy the way they play defense without fouling.



bga1 said:
You meant front court? I think that the reason the Gophers handled Swanigen and Haas better was that they were willing to take a risk doubling down on Haas and Swanigen betting that Purdue wouldn't consistently hit the three. With Wisconsin
Click to expand...
 

bga1 said:
This is the remaining problem for the Gophers on offense especially. As much as Reggie has been an upgrade at center our inside guys just have a problem being part of the overall offense. The assist to turnover issue is beyond atrocious.

Lynch 8.4 points 8 assists and 23 turnovers
Murphy 9.9 points 17 assists and 44 turnovers
Konate 2.3 points 2 assists and 13 turnovers
Curry 5.9 points 22 assists and 26 turnovers

The first three are 27 assists and 80 turnovers. Yipes a 1-3 ratio!

Curry is the only one with a respectable assist turnover ratio and for the most part- he doesn't post up he plays further from the basket. So the Gopher guards and forwards know- as does the opposition- that when the ball goes inside, it's not coming back out and often times the Gopher center will not score. This puts a ton of pressure on our guards as the opposition is not that worried about our bigs scoring at will and they can also then double down if the ball happens to go inside- because they know our bigs won't pass it.

I think Pitino has to fix this aspect- get them to play more inside out. As Wisconsin showed last night, the ball would go inside then out and often back in again to a center in better position. Happ and Hayes each has more than 50 assists and about a 2-1 assist to turnover ratio. Their ability to finish and to find team mates is the difference between the two teams.

Murphy just doesn't pair well with Lynch. I'd start Curry with Lynch. Murphy should be getting the ball 4 feet from the basket- not 12-15 feet out and then attempting, usually in vain, to dribble in.
Click to expand...

Very good points. I agree with all of that. I've been frustrated all season with Murphy catching the ball too far from the basket and playing like more of a sf than he is. With the skills he has right now, I would like to see him model his game off of Mbakwe. Focus more on establishing position close to the hoop, strong and decisive moves, and rebound.
 

bga1 said:
You meant front court? I think that the reason the Gophers handled Swanigen and Haas better was that they were willing to take a risk doubling down on Haas and Swanigen betting that Purdue wouldn't consistently hit the three. With Wisconsin- they'll kill you if you start chasing.
Click to expand...

Yes, I meant frontcourt. Thing is, Purdue is shooting 41.1% (7th in the nation) from 3 this year, whereas Wisconsin is shooting 37.1% (83rd)
 

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