Pitino in close conference games: The stats

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EG#9

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Year 1:
Michigan: Loss 63-60
Purdue: Win 82-79 (lead by 16 with 7 min left...)
@Penn State: Win 68-65
@Michigan State: Loss 87-75 OT
@Nebraska: Loss 82-78
Northwestern: Loss 55-54
@Purdue: Loss 77-74 3OT
Indiana: Win 66-60
@Northwestern: Win 54-48
64-59
Total for year 1: 4-5 in "close games" though Purdue is a stretch, 2-4 in games decided by one possession or OT (again Purdue game "counts")

Year 2:
@Purdue: Loss 72-68 (I think everyone remember this game, controlling the whole way...and choked away late)
Ohio State: Loss 74-72 OT
@Michigan: Loss 62-57
Iowa: Loss 77-75 (BRUTAL)
@Nebraska: Loss 52-49
@Penn State: Loss 63-58
Purdue: Win 62-58
@Iowa: Win 64-59
Northwestern: Loss 72-66
@Michigan State: Win 96-90 OT
Penn State: Loss 79-76
Ohio State: Loss 79-73

Year 2 totals: 3-9 in "close" games, 1-4 in games decided by one possession or OT

Year 3:

@Michigan: Loss 74-69
Illinois: Loss 76-71 OT
Purdue: Loss 68-64
@Indiana: Loss 74-68
@Iowa: Loss 75-71
Maryland: Win 68-63

Year 3 totals: 1-5 in "close" games, 0-1 in games decided by one possession or OT

Year 4:

Michigan State: Loss 75-74 OT
@Purdue: Win 91-82 OT
@Northwestern: Win 70-66
@ Penn State: Loss 52-50
Wisconsin: Loss 78-76 OT
@Ohio State: Loss 78-72
*Maryland: Loss 85-78 (should count but doesn't for this exercise but was a 2 point game with 1 min to play)
Iowa: Win 101-89 2OT
Indiana: Win 75-74
Michigan: Win 83-78 OT

Year 4 to date: 5-4 in close games, 4-3 in games decided by one possession or Ot

Career at Minnesota: 13-23 in close games, 7-12 in games decided by one possession or OT

another "fun" fact: We've somehow lost at least our last four HOME conference games that went to OT
....Gophers have responded by winning their last 2 home conference games that went to OT
 

Thanks for posting...i was going to research the same thing so you saved me some time. Pitino has been outcoached some, but like the football team, we have to find some luck or something at some point right?
 

Thank you - appreciate you putting this all together!
 

In his defense, he's been out-coached for sure, but more often out-talented. From what I see from his young players those numbers should improve.
 

When your most consistent player for the last two years (Mason) and quarterback of the offense is struggling mightily, this is a tough game to win against an extremely veteran team. It was a heck of an effort. The WI seniors had an answer every time we got a little momentum - especially that go ahead 3 by Koenig. Tough game to lose for the players, your competing and ahead during part of the overtime, it's about learning how to create your breaks, and not make mistakes. That only comes with experience.
 


If someone can find the thread via search function (I had no luck on multiple attempts since the MSU OT loss), I did the same thing for Tubby and the results were equally as bad. I don't remember all the games under Pitino, but I know for a fact that at least 3 of his 10 wins that count as "close" were really safely put away with 2-3 min left and a combination of missed late free throws and made shots by the opposition pushed the games in to the "close" category. It's just frustrating as a fan to be on the wrong end of these games so consistently. Think how different this program could look right now if they just won a game or two more in year 1? That would have meant the tournament in year one and would have probably resulted in even better recruiting and momentum for the program. I really hope this year doesn't turn in to another "what if?" like so many have in recent years. Sure, some of it is Tubby/Richard getting out coached, some has been flat out choking, and some is pure bad luck.
 

Having better upperclassman with more experience will help those results. Tough to teach how to close, comes from experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

balds said:
In his defense, he's been out-coached for sure, but more often out-talented. From what I see from his young players those numbers should improve.
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Those don't go together...ha I'm sure we can point to examples of instances we all disagree on a game ending strategy and call it out coached. Easy to say when it doesn't work. The point you guys fail to see: the other team almost always has had better players. Great coaching is why we are IN the doggone close game to begin with. Lots of coaches would get blown out with our talent. But now our talent is improving and we are getting better. Today was just a lot more experience to overcome. Mason can't make a basket...he's our leader. The players can't make a free throw. Make just one, we win in regulation.
Who got out coached today? Wisconsin held the ball twice in regulation today with a 3 point lead...not trying to score with a clearly dominant team able to put the game out of reach with a hoop or a free throw. We couldn't guard Hayes or Happ...attack if you are Wisconsin. Win the game! Yet they ran the clock out and got nothing twice. This allowed us to get to overtime. If we make one shot or one free throw...we are all talking how Wisconsin was poorly coached in the last minute of regulation. Other strategies I had a greater problem from Wisconsin, than any of Pitino's decisions.
 

EG#9 said:
Year 4 to date: 2-3 in close games, 1-3 in games decided by one possession or Ot

Career at Minnesota: 10-22 in close games, 4-12 in games decided by one possession or OT

another "fun" fact: We've somehow lost at least our last four HOME conference games that went to OT
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I get he's ultimately responsible for the players he has, but please name me one all-conference caliber player we've had who could make a clutch shot or two at the end to flip some of those games.
 



I don't think there's one simple answer. The all conference player thing could certainly be part of it, but there are 2 losses to Nebraska, 2 losses to Penn State, and 2 losses to Northwestern on this list. The other issue is it's not always about one shot as the Gophers went from the 5:25 mark today to until Springs 3 with 12 seconds left without scoring a point. They had 4 shots and 4 turnovers on their 8 possessions during that stretch and didn't get a single offensive rebound. During that same stretch Wisconsin had 3 turnovers, but got to the line 3 times (3-6) and made a bucket. The Penn State game goes to overtime if one of 3 players on the Gophers who had a better chance at the long rebound corrals it. Also, the MSU game at Minnesota was won by a scrub in Alvin Ellis and the PSU game was won by a guy who hadn't scored all game. In both cases guys were fouled by a more experienced (as far as game time) and better player in Nate Mason. Youth could be part of it, but again there's a clear pattern of losing these games consistently for four years (Tubby lost them too so it's more like at least 10) and this year we have a PG who is going to be more experienced than our average starter, a junior center who is 4 years removed from high school, a 5th year senior guard, and two sophomores who played/started a ton as freshman. The two freshman that are playing are arguably more poised than a couple of the older guys.

I just don't think you can blame it all on one thing and 4-12 in one possession and/or overtime games would certainly be one of the worst records in the NCAA and it's actually more like 3-12 as I looked up that Purdue game and they hit a 3 with 4 seconds left to cut a 6 point lead to 3. I don't think this issue gets fixed by assuming better/more experienced players will just "make a play".
 

60's Guy said:
Those don't go together...ha I'm sure we can point to examples of instances we all disagree on a game ending strategy and call it out coached. Easy to say when it doesn't work. The point you guys fail to see: the other team almost always has had better players. Great coaching is why we are IN the doggone close game to begin with. Lots of coaches would get blown out with our talent. But now our talent is improving and we are getting better. Today was just a lot more experience to overcome. Mason can't make a basket...he's our leader. The players can't make a free throw. Make just one, we win in regulation.
Who got out coached today? Wisconsin held the ball twice in regulation today with a 3 point lead...not trying to score with a clearly dominant team able to put the game out of reach with a hoop or a free throw. We couldn't guard Hayes or Happ...attack if you are Wisconsin. Win the game! Yet they ran the clock out and got nothing twice. This allowed us to get to overtime. If we make one shot or one free throw...we are all talking how Wisconsin was poorly coached in the last minute of regulation. Other strategies I had a greater problem from Wisconsin, than any of Pitino's decisions.
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Although it wasn't perfect grammar on his part, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what he meant by "out-talented".
 

Sorry

Drake University Gopher said:
Although it wasn't perfect grammar on his part, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what he meant by "out-talented".
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I got it the first time...I just thought it was a chuckle and I didn't think the for sure emphasis strengthened his point. Are you and I in agreement we are not losing close games because Pitino can't coach?
 

EG#9 said:
I don't think there's one simple answer. The all conference player thing could certainly be part of it, but there are 2 losses to Nebraska, 2 losses to Penn State, and 2 losses to Northwestern on this list. The other issue is it's not always about one shot as the Gophers went from the 5:25 mark today to until Springs 3 with 12 seconds left without scoring a point. They had 4 shots and 4 turnovers on their 8 possessions during that stretch and didn't get a single offensive rebound. During that same stretch Wisconsin had 3 turnovers, but got to the line 3 times (3-6) and made a bucket. The Penn State game goes to overtime if one of 3 players on the Gophers who had a better chance at the long rebound corrals it. Also, the MSU game at Minnesota was won by a scrub in Alvin Ellis and the PSU game was won by a guy who hadn't scored all game. In both cases guys were fouled by a more experienced (as far as game time) and better player in Nate Mason. Youth could be part of it, but again there's a clear pattern of losing these games consistently for four years (Tubby lost them too so it's more like at least 10) and this year we have a PG who is going to be more experienced than our average starter, a junior center who is 4 years removed from high school, a 5th year senior guard, and two sophomores who played/started a ton as freshman. The two freshman that are playing are arguably more poised than a couple of the older guys.

I just don't think you can blame it all on one thing and 4-12 in one possession and/or overtime games would certainly be one of the worst records in the NCAA and it's actually more like 3-12 as I looked up that Purdue game and they hit a 3 with 4 seconds left to cut a 6 point lead to 3. I don't think this issue gets fixed by assuming better/more experienced players will just "make a play".
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We had the same scoring droughts going 12 and 1 or whatever it was. We don't have a point guard who finds a way to get the ball to the right guy at the right time is one part of it. It could be as simple as making free throws, especially in the money times. We miss open shots off good looks set up to eliminate the drought. It becomes contagious for even experienced teams...for us it becomes here we are again. We are searching for our LeBron, Kobe or Steph...Pitino has given every one of his top 6 the opportunity to audition for the role. Nobody has stepped up...yet. It absolutely is "make a play". It's a culture!!! It does not change in 15 minutes. It's a process. I'm sorry you can't see the progression of the program. Patience. It's coming. Now, it doesn't work that way unless you build with the same players. The only way it works with new guys is if you establish that culture through winning and they are confident because they know that is the culture here in this program because it's been done. It's expected. We ain't there yet. We are building it!!!

It has nothing to do with Tubby. Tubby is a completely different coach. You really don't see the progress? You should try coaching sometime. When the other team has better talent it's really hard to close games out...the fact you are in it to the buzzer is pretty dang impressive.
 



Would you feel better if we had lost by 10 instead of 3?

I'm less upset about losing close games than I am with getting blown out.



You think a 6 point road loss to big ten champ Indiana is something to criticize more than getting blown out by northwestern?
 

EG#9 said:
Year 1:
Michigan: Loss 63-60
Purdue: Win 82-79 (lead by 16 with 7 min left...)
@Penn State: Win 68-65
@Michigan State: Loss 87-75 OT
@Nebraska: Loss 82-78
Northwestern: Loss 55-54
@Purdue: Loss 77-74 3OT
Indiana: Win 66-60
@Northwestern: Win 54-48
64-59
Total for year 1: 4-5 in "close games" though Purdue is a stretch, 2-4 in games decided by one possession or OT (again Purdue game "counts")

Year 2:
@Purdue: Loss 72-68 (I think everyone remember this game, controlling the whole way...and choked away late)
Ohio State: Loss 74-72 OT
@Michigan: Loss 62-57
Iowa: Loss 77-75 (BRUTAL)
@Nebraska: Loss 52-49
@Penn State: Loss 63-58
Purdue: Win 62-58
@Iowa: Win 64-59
Northwestern: Loss 72-66
@Michigan State: Win 96-90 OT
Penn State: Loss 79-76
Ohio State: Loss 79-73

Year 2 totals: 3-9 in "close" games, 1-4 in games decided by one possession or OT

Year 3:

@Michigan: Loss 74-69
Illinois: Loss 76-71 OT
Purdue: Loss 68-64
@Indiana: Loss 74-68
@Iowa: Loss 75-71
Maryland: Win 68-63

Year 3 totals: 1-5 in "close" games, 0-1 in games decided by one possession or OT

Year 4:

Michigan State: Loss 75-74 OT
@Purdue: Win 91-82 OT
@Northwestern: Win 70-66
@ Penn State: Loss 52-50
Wisconsin: Loss 78-76 OT

Year 4 to date: 2-3 in close games, 1-3 in games decided by one possession or Ot

Career at Minnesota: 10-22 in close games, 4-12 in games decided by one possession or OT

another "fun" fact: We've somehow lost at least our last four HOME conference games that went to OT
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This is really good research. I've always thought the same. In crunch time, they waste too much time. In the end, I think it is also fair to say that he is a very young coach and will get better at this in time.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

THanks for putting this together. I've been following the program closely for about 13 years, and I can't recall ever having a player I truly trusted at the end of games to score. I still don't think we have that player this season, but I think Coffey will finally eventually fill that role. If nothing changes with what Mason does at the very end of games, I would love to see Coffey be the guy sooner rather than later. He's had issues with turnovers and bad shots near the very end of games, but it seems like throughout the game, when we really need a bucket, he's pretty damn clutch. I think that can eventually be the case for him at the very end of the game.
 

come on e.g., we've won some big close games, Pitino coaches some great close games, you need to admit it.
 


This is out of date now as Iowa(2OT), Inidana, and Michigan(OT) need to be added to the win column for year 4!
 


I think we got some help from the officials tonight, and I'm not sure that winning close games is an indication of good coaching, likewise with close losses being held against a coach. Is Pitino a worse coach if Walton hits Michigan's third clutch 3 pointer to tie it, and we lose in 2OT? Still feels good to win another tight one that we could have given away.

Really don't mean to crap on the team after an exciting win, I just disagree somewhat with the notion that winning close games is a skill.
 

Cayman said:
I think we got some help from the officials tonight, and I'm not sure that winning close games is an indication of good coaching, likewise with close losses being held against a coach. Is Pitino a worse coach if Walton hits Michigan's third clutch 3 pointer to tie it, and we lose in 2OT? Still feels good to win another tight one that we could have given away.

Really don't mean to crap on the team after an exciting win, I just disagree somewhat with the notion that winning close games is a skill.
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You're absolutely right. But no doubt it's just evening out to the guys career average.
 

Updated to reflect the the last 3 close wins. I hope that doesn't jinx anything.
 

I think that he is seldom out coached in games. He has made his improvements in what they practice and how they prepare. That has been noticeable in the practices i have attended and i have been even minded and critical when warranted. Coaches win games in scouting,recruiting,opponent scouting, game preparation. Players win and lose games. A great example is Murphy, he has been coached to his strengths in practice for two weeks and to his credit has performed.
 

underground629 said:
THanks for putting this together. I've been following the program closely for about 13 years, and I can't recall ever having a player I truly trusted at the end of games to score. I still don't think we have that player this season, but I think Coffey will finally eventually fill that role. If nothing changes with what Mason does at the very end of games, I would love to see Coffey be the guy sooner rather than later. He's had issues with turnovers and bad shots near the very end of games, but it seems like throughout the game, when we really need a bucket, he's pretty damn clutch. I think that can eventually be the case for him at the very end of the game.
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Needs to get stronger and develop his right hand. At 6'8, with shooting and athletic, no reason he can't.

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For all the crap the coach got last year for being blamed for losing the close games, I don't see a big difference it what he is doing this year. Seems to me it's the maturity of the players getting it done on the court, something that wasn't there last year.
 

watertown 1987 guy n said:
For all the crap the coach got last year for being blamed for losing the close games, I don't see a big difference it what he is doing this year. Seems to me it's the maturity of the players getting it done on the court, something that wasn't there last year.
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Great point. I'd hate to think any coach would be measured that way. The Gophs could be 13-1 and he'd be up for Natty Coach. We could also be 11-16 and he'd be up to get fired. What I like about them this year or others is that they are competing on a every night basis. That is the mark that I want for gopher programs. They've only been overmatched 3 games and that is a major improvement.

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We're 8-6 in big ten and program on the rise. Who cares what we are in close games last 3 years. I do know that we are 8-6 now and going dancing in March.
 

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