8 wins is unrealistic

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Johnnyboy18 said:
Surely one of the coaching jobs that opened up in December would of went after him knowing the U administration didn't want him right? Coming off an elite season I don't understand why he wasn't considered for any positions!
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No one said it was an elite season. People said that 9-4 is a good season for the Gophers. It is. It wasn't great, but definitely a good season.

You can tell it's a good season because the anti-Claeys crowd is now starting to say that 8 wins is unrealistic. Well, we won 9 last year with Mitch at QB and the "burden" of having Claeys as a coach.

As far as proof that other people haven't hired him? So what? Kiffin got an NFL job before Zimmer. We hired Brew. There are tons of examples of bad hires.

Isn't the best way to determine how good a coach is to look at their record? Like, how they actually do?
 

BarnBurner said:
Easy to admit claeys leadership failures yet you won't utter a bad word about the piss poor leadership of Coyle. Telling
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And the leadership failures you think of with Coyle are mostly made up in your mind. Telling.
 

Not knowing what the hell will happen next year because there are too many variables is realistic.
 

I'm not too worried about the 2017 win loss record. New staff, new system, no experience at the most important position and players recruited to 2 different styles of play all add up to too many variable to predict a record. It'll be entertaining at least.

Now take a look at the 2019 schedule.... that is where, with a modicum of improvement in players, enhanced (err... ELITE) recruiting, more national exposure, familiarity with the offensive and defensive schemes, one can #RTB to a pretty good bowl game.


2019 Schedule

Date Opponent Location Time (CST)
Thurs., Aug. 29 South Dakota State TCF Bank Stadium TBA
Sat, Sep 7 at Fresno State Fresno, Calif. TBA
Sat, Sep 14 Georgia Southern TCF Bank Stadium TBA
Sat, Sep 28 at Purdue* West Lafayette, Ind. TBA
Sat, Oct 05 Illinois* TCF Bank Stadium TBA
Sat, Oct 12 Nebraska* TCF Bank Stadium TBA
Sat, Oct 19 at Rutgers* New Brunswick, N.J. TBA
Sat, Oct 26 Maryland* TCF Bank Stadium TBA
Sat, Nov 09 Penn State* TCF Bank Stadium TBA
Sat, Nov 16 at Iowa* Iowa City, Iowa TBA
Sat, Nov 23 at Northwestern* Evanston, Ill. TBA
Sat, Nov 30 Wisconsin* TCF Bank Stadium TBA
 

norman dale said:
I'm not too worried about the 2017 win loss record. New staff, new system, no experience at the most important position and players recruited to 2 different styles of play all add up to too many variable to predict a record. It'll be entertaining at least.

Now take a look at the 2019 schedule.... that is where, with a modicum of improvement in players, enhanced (err... ELITE) recruiting, more national exposure, familiarity with the offensive and defensive schemes, one can #RTB to a pretty good bowl game.


2019 Schedule

Date Opponent Location Time (CST)
Thurs., Aug. 29 South Dakota State TCF Bank Stadium TBA
Sat, Sep 7 at Fresno State Fresno, Calif. TBA
Sat, Sep 14 Georgia Southern TCF Bank Stadium TBA
Sat, Sep 28 at Purdue* West Lafayette, Ind. TBA
Sat, Oct 05 Illinois* TCF Bank Stadium TBA
Sat, Oct 12 Nebraska* TCF Bank Stadium TBA
Sat, Oct 19 at Rutgers* New Brunswick, N.J. TBA
Sat, Oct 26 Maryland* TCF Bank Stadium TBA
Sat, Nov 09 Penn State* TCF Bank Stadium TBA
Sat, Nov 16 at Iowa* Iowa City, Iowa TBA
Sat, Nov 23 at Northwestern* Evanston, Ill. TBA
Sat, Nov 30 Wisconsin* TCF Bank Stadium TBA
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Holy crap. That has 9-0 at Iowa written all over it.
 


He has to win 8-9 regular season games or he is a failure and they should have kept Claeys.
 

dpodoll68 said:
No, it's not unrealistic. Really, really stupid thread. It's not holding up high expectations so we can be negative if they don't meet them, it's the very fact of having expectations. Having standards and holding people accountable is ok. No one is going to push Fleck off the Washington Ave bridge if they don't win 8, but winning 8 games is not at all unrealistic. We will be favored in at least 6 of the first 7 games (if not all 7, depending on how MSU bounces back) and stealing 1-2 of the last 5 is neither unreasonable nor unrealistic.
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I think the being favored in 5-6 games depends on how the team does vs Oregon St. If the Gophers lose that one handily, I think it will be a struggle getting six or seven wins.
 

8 Wins is unrealistic primarily because of Mitch's ability as a leader and player? Really? Im pretty sure we have a couple of QBs on the roster that can throw 160 yards going 13-24 with an interception a game and .66 touchdowns a game. If we do not have a quarterback that can perform even this badly yeah we probably wont win 8 games.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Oregon St, Michigan St, and Maryland will all be improved next year.
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Already the head of the Fire TC and the Hire PJF clubs and now leading the charge to lower expectations and create excuses for next year 8-months in advance. Do you ever sleep?


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Anything less than 9 wins is a step backwards, even if for just one season. Many schools succeed with first year QB's, I don't think excuses are in Fleck's vocabulary!
 

Spoofin said:
Already the head of the Fire TC and the Hire PJF clubs and now leading the charge to lower expectations and create excuses for next year 8-months in advance. Do you ever sleep?
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Just call things as I see it. It works out most of the time.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
Anything less than 9 wins is a step backwards, even if for just one season. Many schools succeed with first year QB's, I don't think excuses are in Fleck's vocabulary!
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Really? I would be okay with 6 or 7 wins next year with a climb to above Kills/Claeys levels in the following years.
 

WorkingMyTailOff said:
Really? I would be okay with 6 or 7 wins next year with a climb to above Kills/Claeys levels in the following years.
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6 wins would be very disappointing no matter how much effort is being made to bring expectations down.
 



Iceland12 said:
6 wins would be very disappointing no matter how much effort is being made to bring expectations down.
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Iceland, how many would you have expected with suspensions.. and Claeys staying? I would have thought 5-6 especially without Rhoda.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Sure. How long do you give him?

If we go under .500 in the Big10 for the next 3 seasons, was it a good change? Do you give him year 4? Year 5?

How long is it supposed to take a great coach to take a team that went 9-4 to 11-2? 12-1?
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How long does it take to change the culture of a program where 10 players think its great fun to all **** one girl because they feel entitled to it???? The wins will come when players start having class and integrity and not before. It might take 5 years to clean house before they can really start rebuilding.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
No one said it was an elite season. People said that 9-4 is a good season for the Gophers. It is. It wasn't great, but definitely a good season.

You can tell it's a good season because the anti-Claeys crowd is now starting to say that 8 wins is unrealistic. Well, we won 9 last year with Mitch at QB and the "burden" of having Claeys as a coach.

As far as proof that other people haven't hired him? So what? Kiffin got an NFL job before Zimmer. We hired Brew. There are tons of examples of bad hires.

Isn't the best way to determine how good a coach is to look at their record? Like, how they actually do?
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Do you think they win 8 games next year in the regular season?
 

bottlebass said:
He has to win 8-9 regular season games or he is a failure and they should have kept Claeys.
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and Nick Saban should be fired to right? What a pathetic loser waste of a coach who did not improve on the prior year. In fact he had a worse year. Why don't you start your protests to get him fired for being a failure??
 

gopherswinagn said:
How long does it take to change the culture of a program where 10 players think its great fun to all **** one girl because they feel entitled to it???? The wins will come when players start having class and integrity and not before. It might take 5 years to clean house before they can really start rebuilding.
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WOW, are you sure it wasn't 20 players or the entire team?
Yes, there were some bad apples in the bunch, but it wasn't the entire team.
Don't forget that the culture also produced 27 Academic All-Big Ten players, overall GPA above 3, Top 5 in the COUNTRY for APR.
8 regular season wins and a bowl victory without 10 players and some of them were key contributors. 5 should have been suspended.

Next year is NOT a rebuilding year.

Was sad to see them let Coach Claeys go. Very disappointed in the way it was handled. Excited though for the hiring of Coach Fleck.
Can't say for sure if Claeys would have been able to take the next step with the program because he wasn't here long enough. Fleck has done it before, so I am hopeful he can do it here. He has a whole lot more to work with here than has ever been - not only in football player talent, but also in facilities.
 

gopherswinagn said:
How long does it take to change the culture of a program where 10 players think its great fun to all **** one girl because they feel entitled to it???? The wins will come when players start having class and integrity and not before. It might take 5 years to clean house before they can really start rebuilding.
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Yet another example of someone who doesn't want to let facts or due process get in the way! Label them all rapists, (because they are African American) throw the coach under the bus and "row the boat" to a perfectly acceptable 6-7 win season. Progress.
 

37score said:
There seems to be a fair number of "fans" on here who are expecting Fleck to show up, change the culture, re-institute a whole new program and culture, and expect to have him win 8 games in his first season.

This is simply unrealistic, and really simply for one reason only.

The team has a new leader. With Mitch Leidner graduating, the Gophers are losing not just any QB, but an NFL caliber QB who was probably the winningest QB at Minnesota in 30 years.
Some of you seem to think that veteran leadership accounts for nothing.
Some of you seem to think that just taking a carefully groomed QB who was molded by Claeys and Kill can just be replaced by some high school student who was just recruited who somehow is going to walk in and take the lockerroom leader role, and control the culture of the other 60-80 sophomores, Juniors, and Seniors on the team and guide them as Mitch did.

Mitch wasn't the QB on this team simply because of his ability to run and throw the football. He was identified early as a stand up guy who the rest of the team looked up to when he stood out as a sophomore.
Some of you seem to take this for granted. Sure he had some inconsistencies, but to think a new coach with a new QB is just going to show up as a 100% certainty, and bring equal results in year one of a five year plan is ludicrous.

Just drop it now. You're being unreasonable and you're purposely setting unrealistic expectations for a team that will be short handed at QB and CB for the next couple years.

If you feel you want to be snarky and negative for the next two years, then you are already prescribing your own success in ensuring you'll be disappointed. But that type of attitude has plagued Gopher football for far too long.

Yes, I was bummed to see Claeys be sent away, but I am not going to make unreasonable predictions for a first year coach who's only fault so far was to believe in the University of Minnesota.
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This is stupid. Every college team has to replace an experienced QB with a new QB periodically. They don't all take big steps back, such as WI this past year.

There is nothing wrong with having expectations because the past staff did not leave a program in shambles, despite the rhetoric of a few people. There are a lot of good players returning and the program will be fine.

The stupid arguing based on being pro-Claeys or anti-Claeys is stupid. I supported Claeys until the end because he was our coach, and will support Fleck. That doesn't mean I always agree with their approach, but I will hope for their success.

The bottom line is the past staff left this program in pretty good shape for the incoming staff, despite the poor actions of a few members of the team. Those returning, for the most part, are kids that won't struggle with a new "culture" - they have been going to class, working hard each day, playing for the team, etc



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Nonconf: 3 wins at minimum, OSU win on road makes it 4. Beating Purdue and Illinois should be givens, even if we have a newbie QB. Maryland? You are at 7 before tossups Nebraska and Iowa. 8 wins looks doable (appeals pending)
 

gopherswinagn said:
and Nick Saban should be fired to right? What a pathetic loser waste of a coach who did not improve on the prior year. In fact he had a worse year. Why don't you start your protests to get him fired for being a failure??
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What are you even talking about? What a stupid take bringing Saban into this. For the record if we had hired saban I would expect nothing less than 8-9 wins just like I do with Fleck. Everyone is saying this isn't a rebuilding hire. Well then we shouldn't miss a beat. It's 8-9 wins or they should have kept Claeys.
 

WorkingMyTailOff said:
Iceland, how many would you have expected with suspensions.. and Claeys staying? I would have thought 5-6 especially without Rhoda.
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Rhoda wasn't part of Claeys's plans for next year. It's possible that Rhoda will be better than other returning QBs in Fleck's system. But if Claeys was still coach and Rhoda had decided to stay, he would've been on the bench. The hypothetical win total under Claeys for 2017 wouldn't change with Rhoda in maroon and gold.
 

Hates Monikers said:
Rhoda wasn't part of Claeys's plans for next year. It's possible that Rhoda will be better than other returning QBs in Fleck's system. But if Claeys was still coach and Rhoda had decided to stay, he would've been on the bench. The hypothetical win total under Claeys for 2017 wouldn't change with Rhoda in maroon and gold.
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Agreed, and I'll add if Rhoda is our starting QB this coming season people really better start lowering their expectations.
 

bottlebass said:
What are you even talking about? What a stupid take bringing Saban into this. For the record if we had hired saban I would expect nothing less than 8-9 wins just like I do with Fleck. Everyone is saying this isn't a rebuilding hire. Well then we shouldn't miss a beat. It's 8-9 wins or they should have kept Claeys.
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You're seriously going to judge the hire of a head coach after just one season? Winning six or seven games next year would not mean they should have kept Claeys that's just ignorant. Just like how Brewster failing as our head coach didn't mean we made a mistake by firing Mason. I'm surprised you have such a simplistic and uninformed opinion on this.
 

beatles said:
You're seriously going to judge the hire of a head coach after just one season? Winning six or seven games next year would not mean they should have kept Claeys that's just ignorant. Just like how Brewster failing as our head coach didn't mean we made a mistake by firing Mason. I'm surprised you have such a simplistic and uninformed opinion on this.
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You do realize that's exactly what was just done with Claeys. The standard has been set. It is not my standard, it is the AD's standard.

Ofcourse they won't fire PJ even if we only win 1 game next year. It will just mean I can spend another year defending Claeys.
 

bottlebass said:
You do realize that's exactly what was just done with Claeys. The standard has been set. It is not my standard, it is the AD's standard.

Ofcourse they won't fire PJ even if we only win 1 game next year. It will just mean I can spend another year defending Claeys.
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Completely different situations and you know it. Under normal circumstances Tracy Claeys would not have even been considered to be our head coach. He completely lucked his way into it. The head coach quit due to health reasons in the middle of the season during a period where we did not have an athletic director. Had the Norwood Teague Scandal never happened and he was still our athletic director do you honestly think Tracy Claeys would have been hired? No chance. Tracy Claeys in just a season-and-a-half managed to lose to Iowa twice, Wisconsin twice, and failed miserably in his first major test of how to deal with off-the-field problems.
 

bottlebass said:
You do realize that's exactly what was just done with Claeys. The standard has been set. It is not my standard, it is the AD's standard.

Ofcourse they won't fire PJ even if we only win 1 game next year. It will just mean I can spend another year defending Claeys.
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Claeys is gone.
Get that into your head.
If Coyle wants to fire PJ after next year, I'll give him the option to do so because his name is on the results for the years to come, and it's the prime reason he fired Claeys. He didn't believe in Claeys long term vision by what he saw so far.

But for you to compare Claeys results with a veteran QB who was loved by the team to a new coach who might be using at best a borrowed QB until he can find his own high ranked QB who he'll choose to start for three years like Kill and Claeys is simply ridiculous.

Obviously, you don't have the ability to understand how a program is built, so any further comments from you read by those of us on this forum will result solely in time wasted.
 

beatles said:
Completely different situations and you know it. Under normal circumstances Tracy Claeys would not have even been considered to be our head coach. He completely lucked his way into it. The head coach quit due to health reasons in the middle of the season during a period where we did not have an athletic director. Had the Norwood Teague Scandal never happened and he was still our athletic director do you honestly think Tracy Claeys would have been hired? No chance. Tracy Claeys in just a season-and-a-half managed to lose to Iowa twice, Wisconsin twice, and failed miserably in his first major test of how to deal with off-the-field problems.
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Bottlebass is solely proving his lack of intelligence by making these arguments.

In Bottlebass'es world, if he dates a girl and they get pregnant and the girl dumps him when she's 3 months along. In Bottlebass's world, when he gets his next date 2 months later with a new girl, he expects her to be 5 months pregnant with his kid on the first date.
 

beatles said:
Completely different situations and you know it. Under normal circumstances Tracy Claeys would not have even been considered to be our head coach. He completely lucked his way into it. The head coach quit due to health reasons in the middle of the season during a period where we did not have an athletic director. Had the Norwood Teague Scandal never happened and he was still our athletic director do you honestly think Tracy Claeys would have been hired? No chance. Tracy Claeys in just a season-and-a-half managed to lose to Iowa twice, Wisconsin twice, and failed miserably in his first major test of how to deal with off-the-field problems.
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That's how you see it. I see that he won 2 bowl games in a row, including one where off field problems most thought guaranteed a loss. We won 9 games for the 2nd time since longer than any of us have been alive. Took the eventual B1G champs to over time on the road. Etc Etc Etc.

If people don't want to call Fleck a rebuilding hire than the expectations should be not to take a step back. Hence my expectations of 8-9 wins. Unless he IS a rebuilding hire, but then call him that (like I have been doing). I'll be happy if we win 6 games and possibly 7 with a bowl win.
 

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