Pioneer Press: Gophers coach P.J. Fleck making believers out of local coaches

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GophersInIowa said:
Someone posted on twitter last night that Fleck and Kill supposedly got into an argument a few days ago while both visiting a local HS. I can't find the tweet now and have nothing else to go on so it probably isn't true. Just thought I would mention it. Maybe I dreamt it?
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This seems like one of those claims that is soooo juicy, it takes off regardless of how true it is.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Someone posted on twitter last night that Fleck and Kill supposedly got into an argument a few days ago while both visiting a local HS. I can't find the tweet now and have nothing else to go on so it probably isn't true. Just thought I would mention it. Maybe I dreamt it?
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Impossible, kill will never be in Minnesota again
 

GophersInIowa said:
Someone posted on twitter last night that Fleck and Kill supposedly got into an argument a few days ago while both visiting a local HS. I can't find the tweet now and have nothing else to go on so it probably isn't true. Just thought I would mention it. Maybe I dreamt it?
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No, you didn't dream it. It was allegedly at Hopkins High School.

https://twitter.com/yorka1982/status/821928866121916416

https://twitter.com/yorka1982/status/821929138084843521

And in this string of tweets, it's mentioned that it's on the Scout Gophers site. I couldn't find it, but apparently it exists.

https://twitter.com/7nattychamps/status/821918324569284608


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Thanks everyone, didn't know if I was just imagining it. Interesting if true. Wonder what Kill's problem would be? Not hiring any of the assistants?
 

GophersInIowa said:
Thanks everyone, didn't know if I was just imagining it. Interesting if true. Wonder what Kill's problem would be? Not hiring any of the assistants?
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Hard to imagine it has anything to do with retaining assistants, that's not a common thing to do. One coach would get that another would want his own guys... as much as he would.

Kill is a proud guy, irked by the U, maybe he just transferring that to PJ... or really anything. I think Kill is naturally a bit more prickly than most think.

That or standard recruiting bickering.... it would be more real when they're at the same place.
 


MennoSota said:
We just produce players that go to Ohio State, Notre Dame, Miami, etc.
Our best players rarely stay on Minnesota.
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Over the last 5 or so years we've pretty consistently gotten half of the top 10-15 players in the state, sometimes more. Seems like every 3-4 years, there's a highly ranked skill position player, and we've gotten them recently (Nelson, Jones). Unfortunately, neither really panned out.
 

Both these guys play full-contact tiddly-winks, so I am not surprised.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Thanks everyone, didn't know if I was just imagining it. Interesting if true. Wonder what Kill's problem would be? Not hiring any of the assistants?
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Does Jerry realize he doesn't coach here any more? What's scary is he had to retire from Minnesota because the stress of the job got him too worked up. And now he doesn't work here, and he's still getting incredibly stressed about the Minnesota job. He's worrying about things he can't change.
 

KillmeNow said:
Sorry Spoofin, I didn't mean to come across as being critical of what you posted. I just used your comment as a starting point to express some of my thoughts. Your comment had some truth to it, Fleck may be disappointed some years in what Minnesota produces for football players.

But if he can stop players from going to Ohio St, Notre Dame, Oregon, Pitt, Miami, etc., and who knows, maybe even NDSU, there could be a few seasons when he won't be disappointed. If he can keep the best Minnesotans in Minnesota, including getting lesser players to walk on at Minnesota vs going to NDSU, because of the realistic hope of winning Conf and Natl Titles playing for Minnesota, like they have now going to NDSU, combined with upgrading the quality of non-Minnesota recruits he brings in, he could come to never think he wasted his time visiting Minnesota high schools and could come to never feel any disappointment.

I mean, my guess is he didn't go to WMU expecting to snag all of the best recruits from the state of Michigan, he probably went there fully expecting that he'd have to find players elsewhere or that he'd have to find underrated players and diamonds in the rough, etc.. And likewise, he probably took the Minnesota job fully aware that Minnesota isn't a football hotbed. I think he said that his 2nd favorite sport is hockey? So he probably knows where a lot of the good athletes from Minnesota end up, playing hockey, not football.
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Gophs have been getting a lion's share of in-state top talent over the past 5 years. I don't see that changing under Fleck.

Like Kill and Claeys, Fleck will look at the overall athletic ability and potential, not necessarily stars or dots. Decker was a 2 star and lightly recruited, but a highly talented all around athlete. To be clear, the best athletes in MN play multiple sports.

Although AWJr is not from MN (but kinda one by proxy), he's another example of understanding athletic ability and potential. Two star rating.
 



Sparlimb said:
Does Jerry realize he doesn't coach here any more? What's scary is he had to retire from Minnesota because the stress of the job got him too worked up. And now he doesn't work here, and he's still getting incredibly stressed about the Minnesota job. He's worrying about things he can't change.
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And he labored here under those oh so terrible conditions....

At some point it just can't be worth mentioning if all you've got are complaints about someplace, because yeah that's what you'd expect.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Hard to imagine it has anything to do with retaining assistants, that's not a common thing to do. One coach would get that another would want his own guys... as much as he would.

Kill is a proud guy, irked by the U, maybe he just transferring that to PJ... or really anything. I think Kill is naturally a bit more prickly than most think.

That or standard recruiting bickering.... it would be more real when they're at the same place.
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How manyh of Brew's assistants did country Jer retain?
 

Okay, I'll take a guess. Jerry is irked with the U of M and how it handled his exit and Tracy's exit.
Kill has a history with Fleck but I've never heard him praise him even though Jerry is a constant name dropper.
I doubt Fleck consulted Kill (he shouldn't have to) when accepting the job.
One of the first things out of Fleck when he got the job was stating how he was going to change the culture. I'm sure Jerry wanted to clobber him because Kill thinks he and his staff already did change the culture. For Fleck to say this publicly was too much for Kill to handle.
Is that what went down? Sounds plausible.
If my thoughts are close to accurate, I think both Kill and Fleck are wrong to so.e degree. For Fleck, save the culture talk for your team and recognize that the previous coaching staff laid a damn good foundation. For Kill, let it be. You are now at Rutgers and this petty.

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At least publicly PJ has been complimentary of Kill ... maybe for PR here because Kill is popular and all but at least on the surface there's not much obvious reason for friction there. Other way around you would hope.

But hey two guys get into the same school and want the same player, recruiting is dirty.
 



In all fairness, I think MN fans have a tendency to slightly over-rate home-grown talent, because they don't have anything to compare it to.
a kid playing for Eden Prairie or Wayzata looks dominating playing against other MN kids - but put him up against the best HS players from places like TX, CA, or FLA, and all of a sudden they don't look so dominating.

And in the case of small-school kids who put up big numbers - when push comes to shove, those small-school kids tend to lack the measurables to play at the D1 level. A kid can rack up big numbers playing against Class A schools, but when he tries to make the jump to D1, that kid is often a step slower than the competition.

So a coach like Fleck needs to make sure when he offers a home-town kid that the kid is a legit D1 player. If the kid winds up sitting on the bench, or playing special teams after being a star in HS, that's not going to make the home-town fans happy.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
In all fairness, I think MN fans have a tendency to slightly over-rate home-grown talent, because they don't have anything to compare it to.
a kid playing for Eden Prairie or Wayzata looks dominating playing against other MN kids - but put him up against the best HS players from places like TX, CA, or FLA, and all of a sudden they don't look so dominating.

And in the case of small-school kids who put up big numbers - when push comes to shove, those small-school kids tend to lack the measurables to play at the D1 level. A kid can rack up big numbers playing against Class A schools, but when he tries to make the jump to D1, that kid is often a step slower than the competition.

So a coach like Fleck needs to make sure when he offers a home-town kid that the kid is a legit D1 player. If the kid winds up sitting on the bench, or playing special teams after being a star in HS, that's not going to make the home-town fans happy.
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A two star kid from ACC/SEC country may be under rated due to competition. They have higher population density and with it more competitive programs. Minnesota kids there is no doubt a blue chipper will stand out. It is the multi-sport Eric Deckers that all these coaches are combing for. A true diamond in the rough.

"Developing Players" is what lower tier programs like to call it when they have to rely on the big powerhouse programs recruiting scrap pile, and they have to go elsewhere because there are simply not enough home grown talent.

[URL="http://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2015/4/15/8143431/states-most-players-recruits"]http://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2015/4/15/8143431/states-most-players-recruits[/URL]

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/college-football/2014/10/42712/where-do-big-ten-teams-go-for-talent

https://rukkus.com/blog/college-football-player-hometowns/
 

CWCWCW said:
Okay, I'll take a guess. Jerry is irked with the U of M and how it handled his exit and Tracy's exit.
Kill has a history with Fleck but I've never heard him praise him even though Jerry is a constant name dropper.
I doubt Fleck consulted Kill (he shouldn't have to) when accepting the job.
One of the first things out of Fleck when he got the job was stating how he was going to change the culture. I'm sure Jerry wanted to clobber him because Kill thinks he and his staff already did change the culture. For Fleck to say this publicly was too much for Kill to handle.
Is that what went down? Sounds plausible.
If my thoughts are close to accurate, I think both Kill and Fleck are wrong to so.e degree. For Fleck, save the culture talk for your team and recognize that the previous coaching staff laid a damn good foundation. For Kill, let it be. You are now at Rutgers and this petty.

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Maybe Kill overheard Fleck call it "BUTTgers" when talking to the student-athlete? :) Or told the player about what a sh!t-hole New Brunswick, NJ is (don't know personally, though based on the parts of NJ I've seen I'd have a tough time believing it's not).

I'm guessing Fleck's reference to culture was "recommended" by Coyle. When I heard it, I took it more as saying getting the players to believe they can be in the National Championship conversation, not cleaning up the program. Which to me didn't come across as a shot at the previous regime(s).

Coyle's comments definitely came off like a shot at the previous regime(s). That probably prejudiced Kill that when Fleck said "culture" it meant something different.

But the rumor has been out there that Fleck didn't jive with Kill/Kill's staff at NIU, perhaps there's been bad blood for a while and this just was the latest example. Add to that everything else (Fleck replacing Kill's chosen disciple, Coyle questioning the integrity of the program, etc.) and it probably won't be sunshine and roses between the two of them anytime soon...
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
Maybe Kill overheard Fleck call it "BUTTgers" when talking to the student-athlete? :) Or told the player about what a sh!t-hole New Brunswick, NJ is (don't know personally, though based on the parts of NJ I've seen I'd have a tough time believing it's not).

I'm guessing Fleck's reference to culture was "recommended" by Coyle. When I heard it, I took it more as saying getting the players to believe they can be in the National Championship conversation, not cleaning up the program. Which to me didn't come across as a shot at the previous regime(s).

Coyle's comments definitely came off like a shot at the previous regime(s). That probably prejudiced Kill that when Fleck said "culture" it meant something different.

But the rumor has been out there that Fleck didn't jive with Kill/Kill's staff at NIU, perhaps there's been bad blood for a while and this just was the latest example. Add to that everything else (Fleck replacing Kill's chosen disciple, Coyle questioning the integrity of the program, etc.) and it probably won't be sunshine and roses between the two of them anytime soon...
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Are you saying they're not officially known as Buttgers?
 





Speaking of "changing the culture." I hear this referenced a lot on these boards - mostly in a negative way. When I heard Coach Fleck say that at his press conference, I didn't really take it as him wanting to change the culture within the football program exactly. I took it more as him wanting to change the culture in our community - meaning fans, media, and general public to view this program with enthusiasm and joy instead of mockery and dread. If it had anything to do with the football program as a whole, I thought he was talking more to the bland nature of the previous regime than the 10 player incident - as the previous staff, on the whole, ran a pretty respectable program.

I could be wrong - but that was just how I interpreted the comment.
 

GopherHomer said:
Speaking of "changing the culture." I hear this referenced a lot on these boards - mostly in a negative way. When I heard Coach Fleck say that at his press conference, I didn't really take it as him wanting to change the culture within the football program exactly. I took it more as him wanting to change the culture in our community - meaning fans, media, and general public to view this program with enthusiasm and joy instead of mockery and dread. If it had anything to do with the football program as a whole, I thought he was talking more to the bland nature of the previous regime than the 10 player incident - as the previous staff, on the whole, ran a pretty respectable program.

I could be wrong - but that was just how I interpreted the comment.
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I think a far amount of "culture" talk on here is sarcasm.

It's like "core values" and such, kinda a go to buzzword that is fairly meaningless.
 

GopherHomer said:
Speaking of "changing the culture." I hear this referenced a lot on these boards - mostly in a negative way. When I heard Coach Fleck say that at his press conference, I didn't really take it as him wanting to change the culture within the football program exactly. I took it more as him wanting to change the culture in our community - meaning fans, media, and general public to view this program with enthusiasm and joy instead of mockery and dread. If it had anything to do with the football program as a whole, I thought he was talking more to the bland nature of the previous regime than the 10 player incident - as the previous staff, on the whole, ran a pretty respectable program.

I could be wrong - but that was just how I interpreted the comment.
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That's definitely a big part of it
 

short ornery norwegian said:
In all fairness, I think MN fans have a tendency to slightly over-rate home-grown talent, because they don't have anything to compare it to.
a kid playing for Eden Prairie or Wayzata looks dominating playing against other MN kids - but put him up against the best HS players from places like TX, CA, or FLA, and all of a sudden they don't look so dominating.

And in the case of small-school kids who put up big numbers - when push comes to shove, those small-school kids tend to lack the measurables to play at the D1 level. A kid can rack up big numbers playing against Class A schools, but when he tries to make the jump to D1, that kid is often a step slower than the competition.

So a coach like Fleck needs to make sure when he offers a home-town kid that the kid is a legit D1 player. If the kid winds up sitting on the bench, or playing special teams after being a star in HS, that's not going to make the home-town fans happy.
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You almost make it sound like Minnesota is the only state in the country where the population of the state nowhere compares with the populations of California, Texas and Florida. Small towns abound all over the country, and yes, sometimes small town kids can get overrated because of putting up big numbers, but I don't think overrating hometown or homestate products is exclusive to Minnesota fans.
 

GopherHomer said:
Speaking of "changing the culture." I hear this referenced a lot on these boards - mostly in a negative way. When I heard Coach Fleck say that at his press conference, I didn't really take it as him wanting to change the culture within the football program exactly. I took it more as him wanting to change the culture in our community - meaning fans, media, and general public to view this program with enthusiasm and joy instead of mockery and dread. If it had anything to do with the football program as a whole, I thought he was talking more to the bland nature of the previous regime than the 10 player incident - as the previous staff, on the whole, ran a pretty respectable program.

I could be wrong - but that was just how I interpreted the comment.
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I think you are right.
 

GopherHomer said:
Speaking of "changing the culture." I hear this referenced a lot on these boards - mostly in a negative way. When I heard Coach Fleck say that at his press conference, I didn't really take it as him wanting to change the culture within the football program exactly. I took it more as him wanting to change the culture in our community - meaning fans, media, and general public to view this program with enthusiasm and joy instead of mockery and dread. If it had anything to do with the football program as a whole, I thought he was talking more to the bland nature of the previous regime than the 10 player incident - as the previous staff, on the whole, ran a pretty respectable program.

I could be wrong - but that was just how I interpreted the comment.
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I agree with you completely, Gopher Homer! I also felt that was what Coyle spoke to. His vision is about a winning program for the fans of the future -- not just the aging fans (baby-boomers and older). It appears Jerry Kill took that change of culture reference personal. I didn't view it as a slam on the previous regime at all. I'm very optimistic about this program's future.
 


Jerry ate some Difficult Conversations for breakfast and **** some bricks............... by bricks.
 

I appreciate what Kill did for the Gophers and wish that he had stayed our coach, but he's working for Rutgers now. Have no idea what he actually expected, but his act is getting childish. The U didn't owe him anything more after he retired, and his hanging around would probably have eventually ended up badly anyway. Can't see him not overstepping his bounds. Hope he just moves, but it looks like the media won't allow it either.
 

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