Pioneer Press: Why did the Gophers boycott? Gaelin Elmore Explains

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Wow nice job kid! Asked very tough questions answered them fairly explained his thoughts very well. Came off as honest and very thoughtful. Sounds like quite a nice leader for this team.

Kaler and Coyle have to be hanging on by a thread!

Great questions how do they keep all the wrestlers names private? How does that happen and not the second 5?
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Most concerning is that the players weren't aware and/or didn't have an understanding of the EoAA and Title IX investigations and how that whole process worked and they weren't made aware or schooled on sexual assault, sexual harassment, possible punishments and how to avoid it, protect their team mates, etc. And the Empire text messages were just disgusting. I don't support rape and I don't support taking young people's futures who didn't commit a crime either...that said, totally classless and disrespectful Not worthy of being expelled or suspended for a year, but def should not be on our football team.

I get the issues and understand how the coaches have to accept some responsibility. But how in the world is Coyle and the AD staff thinking they are faultless in this. I hope Coyle's last official action at this University is hiring Fleck...then adios dbag.
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First off, I'm pretty sure most students at the U did not understand the EOAA and its processes. Heck it's been debated here for a month and some posters still don't understand it. It is clear that once they began to understnd it, they saw the problem with lack of due process and tried to address it.

Second, there have been several threads that detailed the the information that all students get, and the additional information athletes get on sexual harassment and assault.
 

PMWinSTP said:
First off, I'm pretty sure most students at the U did not understand the EOAA and its processes. Heck it's been debated here for a month and some posters still don't understand it. It is clear that once they began to understnd it, they saw the problem with lack of due process and tried to address it.

Second, there have been several threads that detailed the the information that all students get, and the additional information athletes get on sexual harassment and assault.
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Gaelin Elmore and 108 other U football players seemed to disagree with you.
 

Sports_Realist said:
Some of the concern expressed by Elmore and the players was apparently that Coyle couldn't give them specific information about why the players had been suspended. Would Coyle and the U of M have legally been allowed to do so? The actual hows and whys would seem to be protected by confidentiality rules. I'll add that while a better effort should have been made to let the players know how the EOAA process works, they were hardly owed such information as is being implied.
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Evidently the players who make the U of M millions of dollars each year thought they were entitled to a reasonable and thoughtful explanation...especially after seeing the faces of their teammates on TV with the words sexual assault and on the internet with the words rapist next to it.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Evidently the players who make the U of M millions of dollars each year thought they were entitled to a reasonable and thoughtful explanation...especially after seeing the faces of their teammates on TV with the words sexual assault and on the internet with the words rapist next to it.
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What they should just be happy they didn't get lynched...

Oh wait they sort of did......
 


If the players were white would it have gone down the same way, I doubt it.
 

Wally said:
If the players were white would it have gone down the same way, I doubt it.
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Yeah, just like the wrestling team. Remember all their names plastered on the tv and in the newspaper, because I don't recall seeing that.
 

Great job by Elmore. Whenever there is a press conference for the new coach, there should be a demonstration outside asking for Coyle and Kaler to step down.

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MNfootballfan said:
Yeah, just like the wrestling team. Remember all their names plastered on the tv and in the newspaper, because I don't recall seeing that.
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Before everyone gets all up in arms, they might want to check this link. Names and pictures. No reason but that's because nobody leaked anything. It just might be the difference between a minor sport and the one that most everyone cares about the most.

http://kstp.com/news/four-gopher-wr...ta-suspended-violation-of-team-rules/4296083/

Elmore comes across as a thoughtful and honest person, certainly better than the so-called leaders, but, come on, they had no idea of how a victim might feel?
 



xyz1 said:
Judging from that interview, Elmore is an impressive young man. In particular, I'm impressed by his introspection and his willingness to admit where they went wrong, especially their blind spots regarding sexual assault victims. Amazing he could be part of the messed up culture Coyle tried to depict the other day . . . .

And if Elmore's version of how Coyle related the situation to the players is true, you can sure see why the players want nothing to do with the guy.
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Great points but I would say it's two fold. Victims of sexual assaults need to respect the rights of people ACCUSED of sexual assault. That right includes the ability to stand and protest for due process without being accused of being FOR sexual assault.

And here is a question that will really piss folks off. Did a sexual assault even occur? I have no problem saying i don't know, it may have. I'm curious if those who protested are willing to consider that it may not have occurred?

Real talk? $hit happens, your $hit is not as important to me as mine and vice versa.

More real talk? The people who pressured the U to act need to perform a self examination and ask themselves a honest question. Did they just help cost a good man his job for justifiable standing up for due process for his players? The only person who did I might add.

If the accusation is really heinous are we not entitled to due process? Does that just go out the window?


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Sportsfan24 said:
Great points but I would say it's two fold. Victims of sexual assaults need to respect the rights of people ACCUSED of sexual assault. That right includes the ability to stand and protest for due process without being accused of being FOR sexual assault.

And here is a question that will really piss folks off. Did a sexual assault even occur? I have no problem saying i don't know, it may have. I'm curious if those who protested are willing to consider that it may not have occurred?

Real talk? $hit happens, your $hit is not as important to me as mine and vice versa.

More real talk? The people who pressured the U to act need to perform a self examination and ask themselves a honest question. Did they just help cost a good man his job for justifiable standing up for due process for his players? The only person who did I might add.

If the accusation is really heinous are we not entitled to due process? Does that just go out the window?


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Definitely agree. Prepare to get blasted for trying to have a thoughtful conversation.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Evidently the players who make the U of M millions of dollars each year thought they were entitled to a reasonable and thoughtful explanation...especially after seeing the faces of their teammates on TV with the words sexual assault and on the internet with the words rapist next to it.
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Three thoughts:

1) If you have to explain to people the reason for your protest, it's a failure.
.
2) Due process is for the legal system and has nothing to do with scholarships or being allowed to attend a college. There is a code of conduct for students under scholarship/students at the university. The AD or University President can revoke these scholarships for any breach of the code of conduct that they feel is applicable and appropriate. Basically, an employment "at will" relationship.
.
3) Part of my Season Ticket money goes to scholarships. I am choosing to withhold that scholarship money by not renewing my season tickets. That's economics and public relations. Feeling you're entitled to money is a losing proposition in the real world.
 

Mulligan said:
Before everyone gets all up in arms, they might want to check this link. Names and pictures. No reason but that's because nobody leaked anything. It just might be the difference between a minor sport and the one that most everyone cares about the most.

http://kstp.com/news/four-gopher-wr...ta-suspended-violation-of-team-rules/4296083/

Elmore comes across as a thoughtful and honest person, certainly better than the so-called leaders, but, come on, they had no idea of how a victim might feel?
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Correct. The difference is that nobody cares about wrestling. And it's not that they didn't know how victims would feel it's that they didn't take a second to think about it. This whole thing seems so much more poorly thought out than I was giving them credit for.

I also find it funny how some of you guys seem like you get a little tingle up your leg whenever a football player can string a few sentences together.
 



Genious said:
Correct. The difference is that nobody cares about wrestling. And it's not that they didn't know how victims would feel it's that they didn't take a second to think about it. This whole thing seems so much more poorly thought out than I was giving them credit for.

I also find it funny how some of you guys seem like you get a little tingle up your leg whenever a football player can string a few sentences together.
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Meh.. "victim shmictim"


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Genious said:
Correct. The difference is that nobody cares about wrestling. And it's not that they didn't know how victims would feel it's that they didn't take a second to think about it. This whole thing seems so much more poorly thought out than I was giving them credit for.

I also find it funny how some of you guys seem like you get a little tingle up your leg whenever a football player can string a few sentences together.
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EXACTLY. Two reasons this became a much bigger story than the wrestling situation:

1. Wrestling vs football. Can more than about 5% of us even name a current wrestler at the U of M? It's just not a publicized collegiate sport like football.

2. Adderall dealing vs. alleged sexual assault. Need more be said?

I really hope this had nothing to do with accused players being white or black.



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Due process is not "for the legal system" only. The U of M is a state actor and is constitutionally required to provide due process when it takes actions that may impact a sutdent's protected interests. Exactly what process is due depends on the situation, and the full set of criminal procedural protections are not required in student disciplinary proceedings, but the university can't simply revoke scholarships, or do whatever it wants to students, without providing some structural mechanisms to protect their rights.
 

Questions: did Claeys ever go to bat for these guys with his boss or the President, ask that they provide the information the players were looking for, or even try to get information from the administration to help the players connect the dots? I'm left with the impression that he totally and completely failed them. Although I can't stand Fleck I have the impression that this entire situation would have turned out infinitely better if he had been the coach.
 

This is a great article for explaining the players' perspective during this whole mess. Gaelin did a great job giving us insight into why the players did what they did and advocates for their reasoning very well. I know a lot of non-Gopher fans that have been lampooning these kids based only on the headlines they have read. Here, Gaelin shows us the team was taken for a bit of a ride and not given much information about what was happening to their teammates. Kudos to Gaelin for giving us a reasoned and well thought out explanation for what went on. As he also explained, things would have been handled differently had the team known more--which it should have been--but I do think Gaelin does a good job of explaining away a bit of the misperception that the team's boycott was backing a rape-culture. Certainly was a mess of a situation and Gaelin's interview demonstrates how all sides could have handled this better.

One interesting take away for me after reading this is that it does appear that a stronger leader (coach) might have been able to better control this situation before it escalated .... I say this as someone who thinks Claeys got a raw deal here, but it does seem to me that he could have done more to calm down the team before their hasty decision to boycott.
 

Claeys may or may not be a strong leader. What we do know:

1. Coyle clearly wanted to get rid of him.
2. The EOAA results and suspensions were released while Claeys was in San Diego doing bowl work. I believe the timing (pre-bowl game) was intentional by the EOAA to maximize exposure for their office. Question I have is did Coyle collaborate with the EOAA on the timing of the release? He certainly could have asked for the release to be held a day or so until Claeys was in Minnesota.

Interestingly, Coyle may have lost by winning. He got rid of the coach he wanted to dump and got the coach he wanted to hire. However, he was such a slime ball, that going forward no one will trust him. I suspect he is gone within two years.
 

Sports_Realist said:
Some of the concern expressed by Elmore and the players was apparently that Coyle couldn't give them specific information about why the players had been suspended. Would Coyle and the U of M have legally been allowed to do so? The actual hows and whys would seem to be protected by confidentiality rules. I'll add that while a better effort should have been made to let the players know how the EOAA process works, they were hardly owed such information as is being implied.
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Good point. I think Elmore was very articulate and brought up good points. I like him even more as a person/player after reading it.

I asked my daughter who is a student at the U to read. She was firmly on the Fire Claeys side and she also thought Elmore raised good points, but she took exception where he was saying the football players couldn't relate or empathize with victims of sexual assault as they haven't known any victims (sorry if I am not getting his words quite right). She mentioned specific parts of freshmen orientation where they talked about exactly those things.
 


Section2 said:
Not really. He wrote down Elmore's sensible answers. He did everything he could to virtue signal that whole interview.

Kaler and Coyle not going to be happy reading that. Makes them look absolutely awful. I supported the boycott without knowing all that. Wow! I love when Coyle bolted the player meeting.


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Even worse is the changed the header sometime last night. A quote that isn't even directly in the article.

"Gophers player explains boycott — and that sex assault ‘never crossed our minds’"
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
Coyle is going to have to meet with players and men's some fences. Fleck may make this happen after getting to know players. I assume Fleck would do this if he's the leader I think he is.
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"I lied to you before but now I'm telling the truth."
 

Well I imagine most of them don't understand it in light of dropping the restraining order and a settlement that protects her from lawsuits by the players.

Sorry that the lawyers felt she is at risk of liability means something to me.
 

Is Gaelin a captain for this coming year? He should be!
 

Rescooter said:
Three thoughts:

1) If you have to explain to people the reason for your protest, it's a failure.
.
2) Due process is for the legal system and has nothing to do with scholarships or being allowed to attend a college. There is a code of conduct for students under scholarship/students at the university. The AD or University President can revoke these scholarships for any breach of the code of conduct that they feel is applicable and appropriate. Basically, an employment "at will" relationship.
.
3) Part of my Season Ticket money goes to scholarships. I am choosing to withhold that scholarship money by not renewing my season tickets. That's economics and public relations. Feeling you're entitled to money is a losing proposition in the real world.
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Dude,

The football program couldn't care less about your change if they were allowed to keep half the money they generate.[emoji16][emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]


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Tater said:
This is a great article for explaining the players' perspective during this whole mess. Gaelin did a great job giving us insight into why the players did what they did and advocates for their reasoning very well. I know a lot of non-Gopher fans that have been lampooning these kids based only on the headlines they have read. Here, Gaelin shows us the team was taken for a bit of a ride and not given much information about what was happening to their teammates. Kudos to Gaelin for giving us a reasoned and well thought out explanation for what went on. As he also explained, things would have been handled differently had the team known more--which it should have been--but I do think Gaelin does a good job of explaining away a bit of the misperception that the team's boycott was backing a rape-culture. Certainly was a mess of a situation and Gaelin's interview demonstrates how all sides could have handled this better.

One interesting take away for me after reading this is that it does appear that a stronger leader (coach) might have been able to better control this situation before it escalated .... I say this as someone who thinks Claeys got a raw deal here, but it does seem to me that he could have done more to calm down the team before their hasty decision to boycott.
Click to expand...

He was in California for the Holiday Bowl press conferences when this went down.
 

Sports_Realist said:
Some of the concern expressed by Elmore and the players was apparently that Coyle couldn't give them specific information about why the players had been suspended. Would Coyle and the U of M have legally been allowed to do so? The actual hows and whys would seem to be protected by confidentiality rules. I'll add that while a better effort should have been made to let the players know how the EOAA process works, they were hardly owed such information as is being implied.
Click to expand...

There's an easy way to answer that if you're concerned about confidentiality: "I can't go into that because of confidentiality," not 'I don't know."

Here's a question for everyone: who's investigating how the EOAA document got leaked? Because a whole lot of confidentiality rules got violated when that happened, and someone ought to hang.
 

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