Bottom Line...The U Screwed Up

Donate To GopherHole
DougMN

DougMN

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2009
Messages
974
Reaction score
1
Points
18
This entire situation was bungled from the start and Kaler, Coyle, and whatever Regents were involved are responsible. Lots of knee jerk and in the end it makes them look like they had no clue how to handle this.

If this had been handled methodically and in what appeared to be a competent way- I don't think anyone would have said a word. Waiting until December 14th, right before a Bowl Game, and after letting all involved finish the regular season was ridiculous. Did they really not have enough information until December 14th to make a decision? Someone was dragging their feet and did it have something to do with Claeys extension? Pure speculation on my part.

This puts us in a bad position as Gopher fans as well. On one hand, I am standing with the players who I think are protesting more about the way this was handled than anything else. And on the other hand, if there was conduct that violated the rules- there should be punishment to it's full extent. Unless it's public record, everything is he said/she said and we have no idea what really happened or anything else. When it seemed that from a legal standpoint everything was concluded with all parties coming to an agreement, the timing of this decision was quite out of the blue.

The only thing we do know to be factual about this is that it's not going to be good for the program in any way, shape or form. The program is going to lose players, recruits, ticket holders, donations and casual fans as well.
 

Yup. And as much as I want to see the bowl game....I am supportive of the players decision to boycott. The university has continuously shown that the revenue sports are not that important to them. Without some kind of push back....this type of crap will continue.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 

DougMN said:
This entire situation was bungled from the start and Kaler, Coyle, and whatever Regents were involved are responsible. Lots of knee jerk and in the end it makes them look like they had no clue how to handle this.

If this had been handled methodically and in what appeared to be a competent way- I don't think anyone would have said a word. Waiting until December 14th, right before a Bowl Game, and after letting all involved finish the regular season was ridiculous. Did they really not have enough information until December 14th to make a decision? Someone was dragging their feet and did it have something to do with Claeys extension? Pure speculation on my part.

This puts us in a bad position as Gopher fans as well. On one hand, I am standing with the players who I think are protesting more about the way this was handled than anything else. And on the other hand, if there was conduct that violated the rules- there should be punishment to it's full extent. Unless it's public record, everything is he said/she said and we have no idea what really happened or anything else. When it seemed that from a legal standpoint everything was concluded with all parties coming to an agreement, the timing of this decision was quite out of the blue.

The only thing we do know to be factual about this is that it's not going to be good for the program in any way, shape or form. The program is going to lose players, recruits, ticket holders, donations and casual fans as well.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. The U's management were to quick to take action and think things through before announcing their decision. Maybe the term "Drain the Swamp" applies at the U as well.
 

I am getting old.

To think a university athletic department would even be faced with such a situation is depressing.

Is it unreasonable to think that student athletes have an obligation to avoid these types of situations...and get the hell out of there?

Yes, the University has handled it poorly. Hard to imagine though how any other alternative than a true zero tolerance policy would still not end up as a similar mess.

The University though did not engage in questionable activities that Thursday night. But yes, they are responsible for the aftermath.

I miss Jerry on this one.
 

Billd is right. But, this is a difficult situation that was bound to piss a lot of people off no matter how it was handled once those young men thought with their d*cks instead of their heads.
Everyone is capable of making misjudgments, but both of the partys involved (the 10 and the girl) should have asked themselves how their actions would look if the public or their parents knew. The answer to that question should've have stopped both from making their moral mistake.
Ultimately, each is responsible for their own actions and each has consequences .
 


From my experience, personal and otherwise, 18-22 year old males (college age) do not always tend to make the best decisions. There is a difference between making dumb decisions and making criminal ones though. It's not breaking news that males think with their d*cks and not with their heads. I don't think this type of behavior is common, but I doubt it's the first time athletes at the U have been in this situation- it's just the first (actually 2nd time- Gopher Hoops last year) that we've heard about it.
 

DougMN said:
From my experience, personal and otherwise, 18-22 year old males (college age) do not always tend to make the best decisions. There is a difference between making dumb decisions and making criminal ones though. It's not breaking news that males think with their d*cks and not with their heads. I don't think this type of behavior is common, but I doubt it's the first time athletes at the U have been in this situation- it's just the first (actually 2nd time- Gopher Hoops last year) that we've heard about it.
Click to expand...

Why is it so acceptable to always denigrate males when it comes to sex? Could we not say that the woman in this case was "thinking with her [insert euphemism here]?" I don't think I have heard it implied that she was abducted and forced into the initial sexual encounter. Maybe we need to consider that she may have been the initiator to the initial act and not only do we need to advise young males not to put themselves in stupid situations, but also advise young females that there is no glory in bagging an athlete and that putting yourself in that situation should be avoided.
 

Tlsbhansen said:
Why is it so acceptable to always denigrate males when it comes to sex? Could we not say that the woman in this case was "thinking with her [insert euphemism here]?" I don't think I have heard it implied that she was abducted and forced into the initial sexual encounter. Maybe we need to consider that she may have been the initiator to the initial act and not only do we need to advise young males not to put themselves in stupid situations, but also advise young females that there is no glory in bagging an athlete and that putting yourself in that situation should be avoided.
Click to expand...

No you can't say that because men are brutes and women are helpless waifs that can't make decisions for themselves.

And for DougMN, how is this the second time you have heard about a train or gang bang at the U? Did you not go to college? Group sex, threesomes, exhibitionism, voyeurism, wobbly H, eiffel tower, having a girl that goes from room to room or just crawls into your bed or whatever is commonplace...or at least it was during my time at the U. Dorms, apartments, off campus houses...shower stall, common room couch, library, etc. I am not much for the spectacle but certainly have no room to judge given my history of many good times.
 

If you're old enough (or have an interest in history) you'll know where this came from...

"...Just Say No."

Works every time.
 



The university is pretty good at most of what it does.

Title IX is just unworkable as far as playing amatur hour justice system.
 

Tlsbhansen said:
Why is it so acceptable to always denigrate males when it comes to sex? Could we not say that the woman in this case was "thinking with her [insert euphemism here]?" I don't think I have heard it implied that she was abducted and forced into the initial sexual encounter. Maybe we need to consider that she may have been the initiator to the initial act and not only do we need to advise young males not to put themselves in stupid situations, but also advise young females that there is no glory in bagging an athlete and that putting yourself in that situation should be avoided.
Click to expand...

For heaven's sake, there is a world of difference between a (perhaps) consensual sexual encounter and taking on all comers. I can't think of any woman would imagine having sex with one person means it is OK for anyone else around to join in.
 

I wonder if this would have happened with Jerry Kill still in place? Did the players operate more freely with Claeys?
Would Kill have handled the situation differently?
I thought hiring Claeys at the time was the right decision with low risk and keeping the recruiting class in tact. I now feel that it was a very bad decision.
 

TAW said:
For heaven's sake, there is a world of difference between a (perhaps) consensual sexual encounter and taking on all comers. I can't think of any woman would imagine having sex with one person means it is OK for anyone else around to join in.
Click to expand...

Because females are all just innocent "Mother Theresa's" and males are all just sex crazed rapists. It's pretty clear what your bias is and that you adhere to the culturally expected one. And the fact that you can't imagine that shows that you are naïve or choose to put your head in the sand.
 



WorkingMyTailOff said:
I wonder if this would have happened with Jerry Kill still in place? Did the players operate more freely with Claeys?
Would Kill have handled the situation differently?
I thought hiring Claeys at the time was the right decision with low risk and keeping the recruiting class in tact. I now feel that it was a very bad decision.
Click to expand...



The HC's are disconnected from the whole process so I doubt it would be different.
 

DougMN said:
This entire situation was bungled from the start and Kaler, Coyle, and whatever Regents were involved are responsible. Lots of knee jerk and in the end it makes them look like they had no clue how to handle this.

If this had been handled methodically and in what appeared to be a competent way- I don't think anyone would have said a word. Waiting until December 14th, right before a Bowl Game, and after letting all involved finish the regular season was ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Your first paragraph argues they acted too quickly. Your second argues they acted too slowly.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
The university is pretty good at most of what it does.

Title IX is just unworkable as far as playing amatur hour justice system.
Click to expand...
IMO, the Obama Administration and Liberal Progressive watchdogs have forced colleges to play this role under the threat of withdrawal of Federal funds and other political pressures. And again, IMO, it's a role that most college administrations, being Liberally-inclined, don't have an issue with except when it involves athletics b/c it is likely that competing values will conflict. Side with Liberal Progressive beliefs/values or desire to have winning athletic programs?
Frankly, and unfortunately, high moral values has little to do with the whole thing. Giving the accused a fair process to share their side of the story before punishment is doled out doesn't conform with the demands of the Liberal Progressive watchdogs, and the watchdogs don't care. And, holding our student-athletes to a high standard is too much to ask from the fans, players, and coaches that want to win and easily excuse immoral behavior as youthful misjudgment.
Nobody's hands are clean here. And that's not an indictment of anyone's morals. It just seems apparent that most peoples' opinion are dictated by what they want to be true rather than what is actually true. There would be much less attention to this matter if these students were not athletes. What is actually true is these young men and this young woman messed up royaly by the choices that they made, and the bias of our beliefs and of the system are incapable of reconciling this matter to a satisfactory conclusion. It's a Lose-Lose.
IMO, both sides of the argument are have legitimate points and both sides are bias, but moral standards should take precedent over political views. And morally, we need to hold Student-Athletes and coaches to a higher standard. But, if in fact, some of these young men were not directly involved in the alleged misconduct, they should be exonerated as quickly as possible.
Unfortunately, there are too many competing interests and the system is likely too incompetent to get to a common sense solution.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
IMO, the Obama Administration and Liberal Progressive watchdogs have forced colleges to play this role under the threat of withdrawal of Federal funds and other political pressures. And again, IMO, it's a role that most college administrations, being Liberally-inclined, don't have an issue with except when it involves athletics b/c it is likely that competing values will conflict. Side with Liberal Progressive beliefs/values or desire to have winning athletic programs?
Frankly, and unfortunately, high moral values has little to do with the whole thing. Giving the accused a fair process to share their side of the story before punishment is doled out doesn't conform with the demands of the Liberal Progressive watchdogs, and the watchdogs don't care. And, holding our student-athletes to a high standard is too much to ask from the fans, players, and coaches that want to win and easily excuse immoral behavior as youthful misjudgment.
Nobody's hands are clean here. And that's not an indictment of anyone's opinion or morals. It just seems apparent that most peoples' opinion are dictated by what they want to be true rather than what is actually true. There would be much less attention to this matter if these students were not athletes. What is actually true is these young men and this young woman messed up royaly by the choices that they made, and the bias of our beliefs and of the system are incapable of reconciling this matter to a satisfactory conclusion. It's a Lose-Lose.
IMO, both sides of the argument are have legitimate points and both sides are bias, but moral standards should take precedent over political views. And morally, we need to hold Student-Athletes and coaches to a higher standard. But, if in fact, some of these young men were not directly involved in the alleged misconduct, they should be exonerated as quickly as possible.
Unfortunately, there are too many competing interests and the system is likely too incompetent to get to a common sense solution.
Click to expand...

That's kinda like what it sounds like you're actually trying to do there....
 

If this is caused by factors external to the University, why aren't others experiencing major problems with their football programs?
 

justthefacts said:
Your first paragraph argues they acted too quickly. Your second argues they acted too slowly.
Click to expand...


It was both- knee jerk right away and then wait to resolve the issue until 3 weeks after the season ended.
 

justthefacts said:
If this is caused by factors external to the University, why aren't others experiencing major problems with their football programs?
Click to expand...

No full team protests but we've seen many issues where univeristy justice systems have had serious issues.... in all directions.

Our bowl opponent just went through that...

This isn't a new issue, but you do have to be paying attention to the topic to hear about them.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
No you can't say that because men are brutes and women are helpless waifs that can't make decisions for themselves.

And for DougMN, how is this the second time you have heard about a train or gang bang at the U? Did you not go to college? Group sex, threesomes, exhibitionism, voyeurism, wobbly H, eiffel tower, having a girl that goes from room to room or just crawls into your bed or whatever is commonplace...or at least it was during my time at the U. Dorms, apartments, off campus houses...shower stall, common room couch, library, etc. I am not much for the spectacle but certainly have no room to judge given my history of many good times.
Click to expand...

I should clarify- 2nd time I've heard about it in the Gopher Athletic Department. Still...I do not remember too many Flying 69's from my days in the dorms.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
That's kinda like what it sounds like you're actually trying to do there....
Click to expand...
No, I'm saying that's it's difficult to be unbiased when you see the unfairness of the other side and not react defensively. I'm not impugning people's character, but their judgment. I probably should've left out "anyone's opinion" b/c what I wanted to avoid was accusations about anyone's moral character. And, an opinion can be right even if it's based on faulty judgment.
 

What a Mess!!

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
 

What a colossal failure by Kaler, Clayes, and Coyle

This will be a black mark on the program for a long time and all progress the program has made over the years will be gone.

With the disaster that was Baylor I understand that UMN would want to make sure that doesn't happen, but the way this has been handled all year has been horrible. I can see both sides of the issue here. I applaud the players for standing up for one another, especially the seniors. I hope they play the game but that looks highly unlikely.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom