So many people r saying it was consensual, what about this?

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Upnorth, I think you need to explain it slower.

Criminal.......charges......have.....a....different....burden....of....proof....than...the Code....of...Conduct.

Gang bang inebriated woman = not on U of MN scholarship.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Gang sex? How about group sex also known as an orgy? Why do multiple black males always have to be referred to as a gang? Hell, I have never heard the term "gang" sex. And how could you possibly know what the players parents told their sons.

Also, why is it always a white girl that gets taken "advantage" of??
Click to expand...

Gang sex is by gangstas. Get wit the program bro
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Gang sex? How about group sex also known as an orgy? Why do multiple black males always have to be referred to as a gang? Hell, I have never heard the term "gang" sex. And how could you possibly know what the players parents told their sons.

Also, why is it always a white girl that gets taken "advantage" of?��
Click to expand...

My guess is he meant gangbang which is a common term when there is multiple men and one woman involved.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
You are absolutely correct. But you don't need absolute proof to determine that what the player's did violated the Student Code of Conduct. That requires a much lesser standard of proof. Did any of the player's lie to the police or U investigator's? Were they drinking alcohol or smoking marijuana? Were they violating any Athletics Department or football team rules? We don't know and probably will never find out. But the U believes it had sufficient evidence to impose the penalties it did. People should be willing to take that at face value unless and until the U is overturned on appeal. Without knowledge of all the evidence it is unreasonable to take the position that U was wrong to do what it did.
Click to expand...

Soooooo the players don't have any credibility with you? If the U says so then it must be true?
 

Iceland12 said:
And here's the part you left out.

On Sept. 8, police investigators Eric Faulconer and Matthew Wente interviewed Djam. He acknowledged having sex with the woman, but was adamant that it was consensual. As proof, he played them three separate videos, totaling about 90 seconds, taken that morning.

During an 8-second clip, the woman “appears lucid, alert, somewhat playful and fully conscious; she does not appear to be objecting to anything at this time,” Wente wrote in his report. After viewing two additional videos, he wrote “the sexual contact appears entirely consensual.”

Police later interviewed four other players, who each said the sex was consensual.

On Sept. 30, Wente sent the investigation to the Hennepin County Attorney’s office for possible prosecution. In it, he wrote about the videos, “at no time does she indicate that she is in distress or that the contact is unwelcome or nonconsensual.”

On Oct. 3 the attorney’s office announced there would be no charges.

Afterward, the alleged victim filed a restraining order against six of the players, asking that they be made to stay away from the stadium. After a judge granted the orders, the woman dropped a petition against one of the players.

Hutton, the players’ attorney, appealed, setting up a hearing where the woman testified for several hours. The hearing eventually ended in a settlement — the restraining order would be dropped, but the players still had to stay 20 feet away from the woman and have no contact with her. The two sides also agreed that neither would be able to file a lawsuit.

“I’m glad this is over,” the student read in a statement after the hearing. “This has never been about punishing anyone, I just wanted to feel safe. Because of this resolution that we came to, now I do.”

Claeys and Coyle briefly addressed the matter separately Wednesday. Both said they were prohibited from discussing details of the university investigation.
Click to expand...

Do you know which players were in the videos? I've said all along it's apparent Djam was consensual based on the video cited by the police. Assumption was the video was just Djam. Haven't heard otherwise. So many people have been saying it was consensual, seemingly ignoring her statements in the police report, which seem to be the post Djam encounter which was the initial encounter.


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corcorangopher said:
Upnorth, I think you need to explain it slower.

Criminal.......charges......have.....a....different....burden....of....proof....than...the Code....of...Conduct.

Gang bang inebriated woman = not on U of MN scholarship.
Click to expand...
How do we know she was inebriated. She reported taking 5 or 6 shots of vodka, but do we know her tolerance? Do we know the time period between reported shots and the encounter? Did she drink any more in between? Why didn't she go with her friend when her friend didn't go to Djams apartment?

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I went through a custody battle, watched my son's mom on the stand, under oath, sit and lie and lie and lie.

Was the Judge just suppose to take her word for it because she's a woman and said it? Or do we go by
evidence? If tomorrow an anonymous woman comes forth and says "President Kaler grabbed my boobs"
and didn't offer any evidence, does he automatically lose his job? Is that how this works?
when the real professionals did their investigation, they couldn't recommend even the most smallest charge
or any disciplinary action because they received EVIDENCE that contradicted her claims.

My other question is, the U wont alleviate their suspensions or comment on any of this 'new facts' (if they
have any) because of student privacy laws, so....how does this ever come to light or do they just get to
continue to hide these 'new facts'? At what point do they have to release that information? Do they release
it to the players attorney and he can release it to the public at their consent?
In the end, this isn't about what allegedly happened and the fact it was investigated and proven to be false
already, this is about how the U handled it and continues to handle it. This is about Kaler and even Coyle's
conduct. Sending a private message to donors, not all fans, just donors begging them to keep sending money
and then saying it was Claeys decision when it clearly was not. The lies and schemes being portrayed by the
administration is appalling.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Gang sex? How about group sex also known as an orgy? Why do multiple black males always have to be referred to as a gang? Hell, I have never heard the term "gang" sex. And how could you possibly know what the players parents told their sons.

Also, why is it always a white girl that gets taken "advantage" of?��
Click to expand...
So you've never heard the term "gang bang" in regards to white people?
 




Sportsfan24 said:
Nawww, I will just stick with what he actually said versus what he may have meant
Click to expand...
You're looking for racism where isn't. Did I say anything about the color of the players. I happen to have had two sons that played college football, and I warned them both about situations like these. And guess what? They're white.
 

Block M said:
This whole scenario does exactly what the title IX stuff intended, send the message that disrespect for women will not be tolerated, particularly when it comes to sexual assault. You don't go to the hospital immediately after and file a police report if you consented to having sex with 5 guys. You don't consent and then all of a sudden put yourself through all the sh^t you have to go through by coming forward.


Agreed. I, like others hoped this would go away. I, like others badly want the team to win and be relevant. They were very close this year and did us proud on the field for the most part. However, this situation is quickly rotting the foundation of program and giving the U a terrible black eye. Hoping it passes, that cooler heads prevail, and that the program comes out better for its cleansing.





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Click to expand...

You also don't go through all of this, and then return to sideline being a cheerleader, and cheering on the guys who supposedly brutalized you.

Who the hell would go back to cheering on their supposed perpetrators?

I mean seriously.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
Do you know which players were in the videos? I've said all along it's apparent Djam was consensual based on the video cited by the police. Assumption was the video was just Djam. Haven't heard otherwise. So many people have been saying it was consensual, seemingly ignoring her statements in the police report, which seem to be the post Djam encounter which was the initial encounter.


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Click to expand...
I don't think the bold is right. in fact, i don't think the police would have emphasized in the report that the girl seemed lucid, willing unless he saw other players, who admitted to the police they had sex with the women, were seen in the video as well.
 



Sportsfan24 said:
Yes I'm familiar with that term but that's not the term he used.

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I used "gang sex" b/c I said I didn't know if it was consensual or not. "Gang bang" sounds more offensive. But keep believing what you want. You appear to have made up your mind before I even posted.
If I said "bang" you probably would've accuse me of associating Black kids with guns.
 

Many have pointed out that the U isn't held to the same legal burden of proof when it comes to these issues, and that's absolutely true. I think the point is when the stakes are this high, just maybe they SHOULD be.

You know how when you get a speeding ticket you don't get a right to a jury trial or representation, but when you are accused of a felony you do? Same idea. If we are going to entrust Universities to hold people's futures in the balance and alter the course of their lives based on closed door decisions, just maybe a little more transparency and due process is warranted. You know, to avoid situations PRECISELY LIKE THIS MESS.
 

I think some people are scared to typing "gangbang" so they tried to clean it up and use that other term. Who knows, maybe it was sort of racist.

I am more curious to know if Lee Hutton has the ability to direct a cross examination at any witnesses and criminal justice experts witnesses during this appeal, and whether or not there is a discovery process for Lee Hutton to get a look at all evidence the EOAA reviewed during their "investigation".

Who exactly gets to make the judgment after this appeal? If that does not work, what is the next level of that appeal.

It looks to me like ten black men are getting set up to be more screwed over by the new PC justice system than they already were during the restraining order games.
inv
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Your barking up the wrong tree, Some Day. I have been on this board all day and can attest to the fact that there is only a handful of posters who agree with you. It is painfully obvious that most GopherHolers believe that the players did absolutely nothing wrong by having group sex with a girl who was drunk on 5 or 6 vodkas. To them is is what young guys do and it is all part of the college experience.
Click to expand...

That is an absolute strawman argument. Weak minded and silly, but kind of your mantra.

I haven't heard anyone on here say they did nothing wrong. But there is a discomfort here with a quasi-judicial secret commission that might be doing the same thing the initial poster is. Choosing one piece of the statement from one side and saying "end of story."

The fact remains that professional criminal investigators conducted an in depth inquiry and did not find enough evidence to charge. They do this for a living and probably did a little more than what this thread is suggesting which seems to taking one statement from the accuser and saying well case closed.
 

Gopher028 said:
I went through a custody battle, watched my son's mom on the stand, under oath, sit and lie and lie and lie.

Was the Judge just suppose to take her word for it because she's a woman and said it? Or do we go by
evidence? If tomorrow an anonymous woman comes forth and says "President Kaler grabbed my boobs"
and didn't offer any evidence, does he automatically lose his job? Is that how this works?
when the real professionals did their investigation, they couldn't recommend even the most smallest charge
or any disciplinary action because they received EVIDENCE that contradicted her claims.

My other question is, the U wont alleviate their suspensions or comment on any of this 'new facts' (if they
have any) because of student privacy laws, so....how does this ever come to light or do they just get to
continue to hide these 'new facts'? At what point do they have to release that information? Do they release
it to the players attorney and he can release it to the public at their consent?
In the end, this isn't about what allegedly happened and the fact it was investigated and proven to be false
already, this is about how the U handled it and continues to handle it. This is about Kaler and even Coyle's
conduct. Sending a private message to donors, not all fans, just donors begging them to keep sending money
and then saying it was Claeys decision when it clearly was not. The lies and schemes being portrayed by the
administration is appalling.
Click to expand...

Excellent post.

Here's my question. Sounds like most of us would agree that Djam's initial sexual encounter with her was consensual, I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure she is even on record as stating that. He also has video from his phone that the police viewed and stated in their report that it appeared to the police to be consensual. So why is Djam recommended for expulsion and being suspended, he may be the only one who we know is in the clear?
 

corcorangopher said:
Upnorth, I think you need to explain it slower.

Criminal.......charges......have.....a....different....burden....of....proof....than...the Code....of...Conduct.

Gang bang inebriated woman = not on U of MN scholarship.
Click to expand...

She slept with guys who were drinking. I suppose you think she should also face the wrath of the school's code of conduct?

Just to double-check with you, what is the burden of proof for bringing criminal charges? Note, I didn't say a conviction (everyone knows that it's BARD). I'll wait. . .
 

oak_street1981 said:
I think some people are scared to typing "gangbang" so they tried to clean it up... Who knows, maybe it was sort of racist.
inv
Click to expand...
This is why it is impossible to have a discussion about racism. People see where it doesn't exist. If anybody is bigoted on this thread, its Sportsfan, not me.
I'm not even implying, inferencing, or mentioning race, and its racism.
This is why Trump got elected. People are tired of the same old excuses.
This case is NOT about race.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
You're looking for racism where isn't. Did I say anything about the color of the players. I happen to have had two sons that played college football, and I warned them both about situations like these. And guess what? They're white.
Click to expand...

Racism never exists does it? You made a bogus ass comment and I simply questioned you on it. I too may have had son play....maybe even for the gophers and I most certainly warned him about these type of situations. Sexual assault against women is very real.......women making false accusations is more real than some folks care to admit.

Group sex is very common in college. Here's another fact; groupie sex is very common in college. Daddies little princess is dropping it like it's hot, a proverbial walking freak show. When caught, it absolutely has to be someone's else's fault. Unfortunately we have a system that makes it easy for her to do that.

What happened here? It looks like consensual sex. What I do know is the players are being treated like they are guilty of something yet the U has not stated what that is.


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Some Day...Maybe said:
"I was shoving people off of me, they kept ignoring my pleas for help. Anything I said they laughed. They tried to cheer people on."

http://m.startribune.com/sex-assaul...ension-of-gophers-football-players/406564806/

If you think Kaler or Coyle are going to back down from this you are crazy. The players who engaged with her sexually, by. Good riddance. Tough to prove who was spectating, cheering on, most likely the 1 year suspension guys.

The rest of this team would be wise to come to their senses and play football. They're in the heat of the moment now, but they'll regret not playing later on. I doubt Kaler or Coyle yank their scholarships if they boycott.

This whole scenario does exactly what the title IX stuff intended, send the message that disrespect for women will not be tolerated, particularly when it comes to sexual assault. You don't go to the hospital immediately after and file a police report if you consented to having sex with 5 guys. You don't consent and then all of a sudden put yourself through all the sh^t you have to go through by coming forward.








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Click to expand...
Why didn't you quote the part about her estimating at least a dozen people penetrated her? If only 4 players were there in the room, where are these other 8+ individuals? If she was so drunk, how can she recall so many details so vividly?

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Some Day...Maybe said:
"I was shoving people off of me, they kept ignoring my pleas for help. Anything I said they laughed. They tried to cheer people on."

http://m.startribune.com/sex-assaul...ension-of-gophers-football-players/406564806/

If you think Kaler or Coyle are going to back down from this you are crazy. The players who engaged with her sexually, by. Good riddance. Tough to prove who was spectating, cheering on, most likely the 1 year suspension guys.

The rest of this team would be wise to come to their senses and play football. They're in the heat of the moment now, but they'll regret not playing later on. I doubt Kaler or Coyle yank their scholarships if they boycott.

This whole scenario does exactly what the title IX stuff intended, send the message that disrespect for women will not be tolerated, particularly when it comes to sexual assault. You don't go to the hospital immediately after and file a police report if you consented to having sex with 5 guys. You don't consent and then all of a sudden put yourself through all the sh^t you have to go through by coming forward.

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Click to expand...

You act like a lady has never lied about being sexually assaulted before. Not saying that it did or didn't happen here, but you can't automatically rush to judgement on one person's she said, and say that what he\they said was a lie. She's already stated that her having sex with Djam wasn't consensual, yet his videos show her playful and joking and enjoying it. That was enough to prove she was lying and no charges were brought. You add the fact of how she pleaded the 5th, and came to a settlement so easily... it all points to her as being unreliable. Hell, any person that was gang raped wouldn't give up... she gave up pretty easily. No one knows the facts, at best it's a he said she said issue, with proof of consent from one of the "accused."

And if Coyle and Kaler suspended players like Winfield Jr. for just being in the same building, then guess what? They should resign! Don't you think? By putting someone like Winfield's future as a player and as a person on the line, when they did nothing but share the same building.... what should Coyle and Kaler do that will remedy that if that is the case?
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Racism never exists does it? You made a bogus ass comment and I simply questioned you on it. I too may have had son play....maybe even for the gophers and I most certainly warned him about these type of situations. Sexual assault against women is very real.......women making false accusations is more real than some folks care to admit.

Group sex is very common in college. Here's another fact; groupie sex is very common in college. Daddies little princess is dropping it like it's hot, a proverbial walking freak show. When caught, it absolutely has to be someone's else's fault. Unfortunately we have a system that makes it easy for her to do that.

What happened here? It looks like consensual sex. What I do know is the players are being treated like they are guilty of something yet the U has not stated what that is.


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Click to expand...
I made the point that no one knows except those there, but folks that were not will made a decision that assumes guilt. That is hardly assuming guilt on my part. It's about avoiding situations that could give the appearance of guilt.
I don't know what "bogus ass comment" you're talking about. I think I covered the "gang sex" "gang bang" thing.
And yeah, racism exists and it's a two way street. But none, absolutely none of my comments had anything to do with race.
Check yourself.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Racism never exists does it? You made a bogus ass comment and I simply questioned you on it. I too may have had son play....maybe even for the gophers and I most certainly warned him about these type of situations. Sexual assault against women is very real.......women making false accusations is more real than some folks care to admit.

Group sex is very common in college. Here's another fact; groupie sex is very common in college. Daddies little princess is dropping it like it's hot, a proverbial walking freak show. When caught, it absolutely has to be someone's else's fault. Unfortunately we have a system that makes it easy for her to do that.

What happened here? It looks like consensual sex. What I do know is the players are being treated like they are guilty of something yet the U has not stated what that is.


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Click to expand...
Exactly. I have thought that she knew what she was doing, got caught up in the moment, instantly regretted it when it was over because it's unbecoming, and went through the steps to file sexual assault charges and when there wasn't enough evidence, kept up airs with the HRO, and didn't fight the appeal/pled the 5th so her, let's say untruths, weren't exposed.

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Sportsfan24 said:
Racism never exists does it? You made a bogus ass comment and I simply questioned you on it. I too may have had son play....maybe even for the gophers and I most certainly warned him about these type of situations. Sexual assault against women is very real.......women making false accusations is more real than some folks care to admit.

Group sex is very common in college. Here's another fact; groupie sex is very common in college. Daddies little princess is dropping it like it's hot, a proverbial walking freak show. When caught, it absolutely has to be someone's else's fault. Unfortunately we have a system that makes it easy for her to do that.

What happened here? It looks like consensual sex. What I do know is the players are being treated like they are guilty of something yet the U has not stated what that is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

+1
It's fun being on the winning side of a racism discussion.


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KillerGopherFan said:
I used "gang sex" b/c I said I didn't know if it was consensual or not. "Gang bang" sounds more offensive. But keep believing what you want. You appear to have made up your mind before I even posted.
If I said "bang" you probably would've accuse me of associating Black kids with guns.
Click to expand...

I accept your explanation. Rather than assume, I asked the question. You took the time to explain and it made sense to me so I accepted your explanation.

Now.....why are associating the word bang with black kids![emoji41]


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This

Hates Monikers said:
Everybody has acknowledged from the start at this was a he-said she-said case. If it's as cut and dried as the article makes it appear, there would've been charges. She initially said the sex with Djam was consensual, for example.

It doesn't mean she's making anything up and the guys are innocent. It's just not that clear.

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Click to expand...

I don't think those defending the program believe, like myself, that all of the 10 suspended are completely innocent, but neither are other students at party, potential recruits supervised by coaches and U of football program employees, the alleged victim, or that the program itself is innocent or especially the AD under former AD Teagues watch. They had a lot of hypocrisy especially president Kaler in hiring AD Teague, and now they are wringing their hands and trying to hold students accountable when the President himself never held himself accountable for the action of hiring Norwood Teague as athletic director.
It's the timing of the announcement, and time for the appeals not happening at least three players not involved or 1 not being in the building that is troubling. Program overall is going to suffer as is the University. Situation will just get worse before anything get's better. Another troublesome aspect of this is a board of individuals gathered evidence that seems rather one sided against a group of University students and takes the side of only one witness. I get that we do not have all of the evidence and the U and administration has facts we don't what, I don't like is that they spilled the beans to the media, about announcing the suspensions for violations of student code of conduct, and then at the same time simultaneously make a big deal about this suspension announcement and subsequent statements announced by the leadership particularly President Kaler and AD Coyle. The grandstanding in the media, the letters to potential donors citing Claeys agreed with or supported the decision, all of that could have been avoided by talking less, sending out press releases with the players pictures, or by simply stating these indefinite suspensions would have appeals heard and more evidence would be allowed to be presented by the suspended. They were already suspended twice from the football program over this incident.

Instead the University made a big deal out of suspending these players, without giving them additional time to defend themselves against these accusations. They created a media sh~!t storm and this mess by distributing press releases with these guys pictures and grandstanding about the suspension on a bully pulpit that they did not need to do, especially President Kaler and his donor letter to Football boosters. That letter bugs the crap out of me and makes him seem like he is putting himself on a pedestal when he hired Norwood Teague with bad professional judgement.

Hiding behind student privacy laws, then dragging these players reputations through the mud with press releases, and including the program pictures, yeah that seems really fair.
 

pregameatblarneys said:
Why didn't you quote the part about her estimating at least a dozen people penetrated her? If only 4 players were there in the room, where are these other 8+ individuals? If she was so drunk, how can she recall so many details so vividly?

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Click to expand...
Her story has changed throughout. Djam was consensual, then he wasn't. Kiondre Thomas was there, then he wasn't (and isn't even one of the extra five). There were four, then there were 12. How do we know what to believe? The police didn't know. But the U does.
 

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