Recruiting and Claeys

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ncgo4

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There is a separate thread here about coaches who get more with less and less with more. Tracy Claeys should be at the top of the list of great coaches with talent that was not highly recruited. Only a handful of the current Gopher roster were really sought after by "Helmet" schools. Green, Caughlin and a few others and still we will go to consecutive bowl 5 this year.

What do the great recruiters have in common? Not all of them come from schools with OSU resources, though certainly, it helps. Not all of them are from warmer climates. What they all have in common is that they are almost without exception dynamic and outgoing salesmen. Secondly, they have a reputation for on field success that leads to NFL draftability.

Claeys & staff have begun to do the second, at least on the defensive side. He may now have the right people in place on the offensive side. We'll see soon enough. He will never, however, pass for someone that attracts young people with his dynamism or his slick style.

As a result, I think we will see continued progress on the field but don't expect any great leaps forward. In a lot of ways, however, this may be best for the Gophers. We need to consistently build our brand in Minnesota as we compete with our pro competition and a flashy leader who would get hired away for a fortune following a few good years is not the answer. We need a happier Glenn Mason. One who doesn't yearn to go home to Ohio State or Norte Dame.

Mr. Claeys may be just the right guy at just the right time. I just wish he and his staff got more credit for what they have done shich in my opinion has been pretty amazing considering the valuations of our recruiting classes.
 

We have two main problems when it comes to recruiting. We're not in a talent rich area and perception. We are spending more on recruiting in hopes that we'll uncover the stars who can be bethan 4 stars down the road.
 

I think recruiting was the big question mark with Kill and it will remain so under Claeys. Of course, Brewster was all sizzle and no steak, so buzz around recruiting can be misleading. I worry that Claeys still see himself as a "coach 'em up" Rumpelstiltskin whose assistants can spin straw into gold. I'm not under the impression we are going to be tOSU or Alabama with more recruiting stars on the field than in the night sky, but we need more athleticism on the offensive side of the ball. I agree with the OP that the defensive side seems to be doing alright except that we need to be a little bigger in the middle of the D-line.
 

I tend to agree with you, I think that the back seven on defense is becoming very consistent, a player graduates and another player is ready. The D-line is not quite there but moving in that direction. This years recruiting class shows the change in philosophy on the O-line that will take a couple of years to mature. Claeys needs a couple years for his vision on offense to start maturing. I would not be surprised if there are coaching changes among the offensive coaching assistants. The changes on defense also need a year or two to mature. It's crazy to expect implementing 4-2-5 scheme, a large portion of the time, to be flawless in the first year.
 

nsmike said:
I tend to agree with you, I think that the back seven on defense is becoming very consistent, a player graduates and another player is ready. The D-line is not quite there but moving in that direction. This years recruiting class shows the change in philosophy on the O-line that will take a couple of years to mature. Claeys needs a couple years for his vision on offense to start maturing. I would not be surprised if there are coaching changes among the offensive coaching assistants. The changes on defense also need a year or two to mature. It's crazy to expect implementing 4-2-5 scheme, a large portion of the time, to be flawless in the first year.
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The one thing I hope that Miller does and having a background in Wisconsin might point in this direction is that no freshman O-lineman should ever see the field. Injuries contributed, but Kill jumped the gun with Tyler Moore and one of the Mayes'. That should be avoided. If I have one consistent gripe about the Kills/Claeys approach is that they sometimes don't take the long view.
 


50PoundHead said:
The one thing I hope that Miller does and having a background in Wisconsin might point in this direction is that no freshman O-lineman should ever see the field. Injuries contributed, but Kill jumped the gun with Tyler Moore and one of the Mayes'. That should be avoided. If I have one consistent gripe about the Kills/Claeys approach is that they sometimes don't take the long view.
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I'm not even sure what this really means. The whole re-branding of the program was advertised as "brick by brick" and building for the future. They've taken a pretty methodical approach with a long-term focus.

Moore needed to play last year because he was our best center. Period. As for Mayes, everyone was knashing their teeth over him losing his redshirt, and now he's not starting as a junior.
 

John Galt said:
I'm not even sure what this really means. The whole re-branding of the program was advertised as "brick by brick" and building for the future. They've taken a pretty methodical approach with a long-term focus.

Moore needed to play last year because he was our best center. Period. As for Mayes, everyone was knashing their teeth over him losing his redshirt, and now he's not starting as a junior.
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On the other hand, this team could really use KJ Maye and Antonio Thompson right now.
 


John Galt said:
I'm not even sure what this really means. The whole re-branding of the program was advertised as "brick by brick" and building for the future. They've taken a pretty methodical approach with a long-term focus.

Moore needed to play last year because he was our best center. Period. As for Mayes, everyone was knashing their teeth over him losing his redshirt, and now he's not starting as a junior.
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I thought brick-by-brick meant they wouldn't burn a lot of redshirts for a few relatively meaningless victories and then resort to the "this is going to take awhile" line. You can't have it both ways. Kill probably plays full-contact tiddly-winks and I just think he let his competitive nature got the better of him. He had to get to a bowl game in his second year for some reason.

You build a long-term foundation by having experienced guys ready to go when someone graduates or is lost to injury. We're still plugging in true freshmen in those situations. I can't think of a lot of successful programs where that is the case.
 



50PoundHead said:
I thought brick-by-brick meant they wouldn't burn a lot of redshirts for a few relatively meaningless victories and then resort to the "this is going to take awhile" line. You can't have it both ways. Kill probably plays full-contact tiddly-winks and I just think he let his competitive nature got the better of him. He had to get to a bowl game in his second year for some reason.

You build a long-term foundation by having experienced guys ready to go when someone graduates or is lost to injury. We're still plugging in true freshmen in those situations. I can't think of a lot of successful programs where that is the case.
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Yes, in a perfect world this is the case. But you can't predict every transfer or player retiring early. You can't predict that a certain position group will be decimated by injuries.

I think this happens a lot more than you think. It certainly isn't just the Gophers.
 

50PoundHead said:
I thought brick-by-brick meant they wouldn't burn a lot of redshirts for a few relatively meaningless victories and then resort to the "this is going to take awhile" line. You can't have it both ways. Kill probably plays full-contact tiddly-winks and I just think he let his competitive nature got the better of him. He had to get to a bowl game in his second year for some reason.

You build a long-term foundation by having experienced guys ready to go when someone graduates or is lost to injury. We're still plugging in true freshmen in those situations. I can't think of a lot of successful programs where that is the case.
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Pretty sure it means a lot more than that...
 

Recruiting may not be setting the world on fire, but scouting and identification of talent seems to be a strength for our staff.

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Eric Murray, Brien boddy-calhoun, players like that. Players who fly under the radar, but we've had success with.

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Don't know how to highlight two replies to my last post in this post, so here goes:

(1) GII, you are correct. You can never predict how things are going to unfold. I guess I was talking about what my hopes were more than anything else.

(2) PMW, I was talking about the on-field product. Kill had a lot more to do than just upgrade the W/L. He had to instill a stronger culture in the program because of the mess he had inherited.

In sum though, I wish Kill had been a bit more patient. Just my opinion. I don't expect anyone to agree with my perspective.
 

50PoundHead said:
Don't know how to highlight two replies to my last post in this post, so here goes:

(1) GII, you are correct. You can never predict how things are going to unfold. I guess I was talking about what my hopes were more than anything else.

(2) PMW, I was talking about the on-field product. Kill had a lot more to do than just upgrade the W/L. He had to instill a stronger culture in the program because of the mess he had inherited.

In sum though, I wish Kill had been a bit more patient. Just my opinion. I don't expect anyone to agree with my perspective.
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Any Gopher fan still here has the patience of Job....

I can't believe anyone would actually recommend losing extra games so we can redshirt players...no one has a clue what the roster will look like 5 years from now.
 

Plinnius said:
On the other hand, this team could really use KJ Maye and Antonio Thompson right now.
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We needed them when they played. The issue isn't that they played as freshman, it's that we haven't recruited well enough after them. Besides, there is no guarantee that they would have returned for a 5th year.
 


John Galt said:
We needed them when they played. The issue isn't that they played as freshman, it's that we haven't recruited well enough after them. Besides, there is no guarantee that they would have returned for a 5th year.
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Yeah you have to replace the good players with better recruits that's how a college football team becomes successful
 

John Galt said:
Any Gopher fan still here has the patience of Job....

I can't believe anyone would actually recommend losing extra games so we can redshirt players...no one has a clue what the roster will look like 5 years from now.
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I'm not recommending we go out and blow a season and I think you know that I am not saying that. What I'm saying is that Kill rushed things before the foundation was laid. Did making it to a Bowl Game in Year 2 make any difference in the big scheme of things other than to say in some odd macro sense that "we had turned it around" when we hadn't?

Alvarez didn't break .500 until Year 4 of his regime. Ferentz didn't until Year 3. One of the reasons for that is that they both took a measured approach and made sure the foundation was laid and the system was fully adopted before pretending they were contenders. Both of those programs have been successful and durable with a couple of hiccups since then. And I've always thought the prime reason for those programs' success has been the high number of quality juniors and seniors on those teams.

And one should have an idea of what the roster will look like five years out. Sure, there will be injuries and some guys will not come back to play a redshirt senior year, but Kill's teams have always been strong academically and as a supposed master motivator, one would think he would have gotten most everyone to stick around.
 

Totally agree with original post on this thread. They need some time to prove themselves. The knives come out so quickly on this site it's mind blowing.
 

Plinnius said:
On the other hand, this team could really use KJ Maye and Antonio Thompson right now.
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Antonio.......Johnson? If you're thinking about the safety, i'm ok with him gone, he was the prequel to Ayinde.
 

Gopher028 said:
Antonio.......Johnson? If you're thinking about the safety, i'm ok with him gone, he was the prequel to Ayinde.
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Seriously? Antonio Johnson was a pretty good DB.
 

50PoundHead said:
I'm not recommending we go out and blow a season and I think you know that I am not saying that. What I'm saying is that Kill rushed things before the foundation was laid. Did making it to a Bowl Game in Year 2 make any difference in the big scheme of things other than to say in some odd macro sense that "we had turned it around" when we hadn't?

Alvarez didn't break .500 until Year 4 of his regime. Ferentz didn't until Year 3. One of the reasons for that is that they both took a measured approach and made sure the foundation was laid and the system was fully adopted before pretending they were contenders. Both of those programs have been successful and durable with a couple of hiccups since then. And I've always thought the prime reason for those programs' success has been the high number of quality juniors and seniors on those teams.

And one should have an idea of what the roster will look like five years out. Sure, there will be injuries and some guys will not come back to play a redshirt senior year, but Kill's teams have always been strong academically and as a supposed master motivator, one would think he would have gotten most everyone to stick around.
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They had the luxury of time back then- there wasn't the rush to fire after 2 or 3 seasons. Things have changed drastically since then. The amount of players we have in the NFL now compared to their star ratings is pretty impressive. Lets give Claeys a couple more years with his coordinators and schemes, much like Barry and Kirk had.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
 

Gopher028 said:
Antonio.......Johnson? If you're thinking about the safety, i'm ok with him gone, he was the prequel to Ayinde.
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Huh? Ayinde is a borderline Division I player, and Johnson was a borderline NFL player.
 

pregameatblarneys said:
They had the luxury of time back then- there wasn't the rush to fire after 2 or 3 seasons. Things have changed drastically since then. The amount of players we have in the NFL now compared to their star ratings is pretty impressive. Lets give Claeys a couple more years with his coordinators and schemes, much like Barry and Kirk had.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
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And that is very true. The eras are different. The problem with being my age is that I don't always transition well from era to era.
 

ncgo4 said:
There is a separate thread here about coaches who get more with less and less with more. Tracy Claeys should be at the top of the list of great coaches with talent that was not highly recruited. Only a handful of the current Gopher roster were really sought after by "Helmet" schools. Green, Caughlin and a few others and still we will go to consecutive bowl 5 this year.

What do the great recruiters have in common? Not all of them come from schools with OSU resources, though certainly, it helps. Not all of them are from warmer climates. What they all have in common is that they are almost without exception dynamic and outgoing salesmen. Secondly, they have a reputation for on field success that leads to NFL draftability.

Claeys & staff have begun to do the second, at least on the defensive side. He may now have the right people in place on the offensive side. We'll see soon enough. He will never, however, pass for someone that attracts young people with his dynamism or his slick style.

As a result, I think we will see continued progress on the field but don't expect any great leaps forward. In a lot of ways, however, this may be best for the Gophers. We need to consistently build our brand in Minnesota as we compete with our pro competition and a flashy leader who would get hired away for a fortune following a few good years is not the answer. We need a happier Glenn Mason. One who doesn't yearn to go home to Ohio State or Norte Dame.

Mr. Claeys may be just the right guy at just the right time. I just wish he and his staff got more credit for what they have done shich in my opinion has been pretty amazing considering the valuations of our recruiting classes.
Click to expand...

You're right, Claeys should get a ton of credit for beating Oregon St., Indiana St., Colorado St, Maryland, Rutgers, and Illinois. I don't know the last time we've had a coach beat powerhouses like those schools? Just a brilliant job he's done with more talented players than those other schools. I don't know how he's done it? Here's hoping he can keep it rolling against another juggernaut in the Purdue Boilermakers.


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Some Day...Is Coming! said:
You're right, Claeys should get a ton of credit for beating Oregon St., Indiana St., Colorado St, Maryland, Rutgers, and Illinois. I don't know the last time we've had a coach beat powerhouses like those schools? Just a brilliant job he's done with more talented players than those other schools. I don't know how he's done it? Here's hoping he can keep it rolling against another juggernaut in the Purdue Boilermakers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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He can only play the schools that are scheduled. What is he supposed to do? You're giving him sh1t for beating those schools. Imagine what you'd say had he lost.
 

dpodoll68 said:
He can only play the schools that are scheduled. What is he supposed to do? You're giving him sh1t for beating those schools. Imagine what you'd say had he lost.
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My attitude also. No apology for winning those games. Lots of posters would come on with the "just win, baby!" and the "Big Ten wins!", Claeys has done both.
 

GopherBulldog said:
Totally agree with original post on this thread. They need some time to prove themselves. The knives come out so quickly on this site it's mind blowing.
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I would love to give Claeys more time. I see red flags already, however. He's not a CEO, He doesn't seem to do anything to sell the program, the buzz Coach Kill built is gone, they have new facilities going in and are 13 of 14 in recruiting for 2017. They are 6-2 with meaningful games in November and having to beg people to buy tickets to the two remaining games. I got a call from the ticket office yesterday. I still consider a new coach if we don't win 9 games.
 

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