What on earth is going on with Melvin Holland and Isaiah Gentry?

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Bob_Loblaw said:
I have never understood the perceived conspiracy against Holland. I've never heard anyone except a few people quoting things from paysites that have ever been super complimentary about what they have seen. I am not pretending to have any skills accessing the talent of collegiate WRs, but Holland has never stood out to me. We are and have been in desperate need of playmakers, if Holland was better than the guys who are getting reps, I have to think he would be playing.


I also noticed people pointing to Fruechte as an example of a guy who didn't get a chance. . .huh? Fruechte saw a ton of playing time while at the U.
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I am picking up what you are putting down. Everyone would love to see more yards after catch and a more prolific passing attack so I understand why people want to see other guys get a shot, but you have to think the coaches would play the best players right?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I have never understood the perceived conspiracy against Holland. I've never heard anyone except a few people quoting things from paysites that have ever been super complimentary about what they have seen. I am not pretending to have any skills accessing the talent of collegiate WRs, but Holland has never stood out to me. We are and have been in desperate need of playmakers, if Holland was better than the guys who are getting reps, I have to think he would be playing.


I also noticed people pointing to Fruechte as an example of a guy who didn't get a chance. . .huh? Fruechte saw a ton of playing time while at the U.
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Playmakers? I'd settle for a guy who could get a step on a DB.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
I have never understood the perceived conspiracy against Holland. I've never heard anyone except a few people quoting things from paysites that have ever been super complimentary about what they have seen. I am not pretending to have any skills accessing the talent of collegiate WRs, but Holland has never stood out to me. We are and have been in desperate need of playmakers, if Holland was better than the guys who are getting reps, I have to think he would be playing.


I also noticed people pointing to Fruechte as an example of a guy who didn't get a chance. . .huh? Fruechte saw a ton of playing time while at the U.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/dvits14/status/791663599349485568

Eric Murray, Leidner, camp observers, at least one coach mentioned him summer of 2015.

The point made re Freuchte is that he was essentially demoted for perhaps the worst WR I have ever seen at the FBS level, Donovahn Jones.
 


WorkingMyTailOff said:
I am picking up what you are putting down. Everyone would love to see more yards after catch and a more prolific passing attack so I understand why people want to see other guys get a shot, but you have to think the coaches would play the best players right?
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Why would you assume that? Woli, Ayinde, sending out linemen with bad knees and ankles and getting Leidner killed last season, the list goes on. I'd like to think that as well but I have to believe my own eyes. Is Djam better than Johanneson? Is Carter that bad after contributing meaningfully last season? We have no options for Woz?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Why would you assume that? Woli, Ayinde, sending out linemen with bad knees and ankles and getting Leidner killed last season, the list goes on. I'd like to think that as well but I have to believe my own eyes. Is Djam better than Johanneson? Is Carter that bad after contributing meaningfully last season? We have no options for Woz?
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At the most basic level, the Gophers staff under Kill and Claeys have over achieved relative to their recruiting rankings. I didn't look this up so if I am off I apologize.

Regarding Carter I think he has just been getting back to health. Wolitarsky has had some key drops, but has also made some plays. The OLine was a mess last year, but I give the staff credit for bringing in some jucos and trying to pick up the pieces.
Now the tight end position is what really disturbs me. Didn't they have a back up plan to Lingen?
 

Sometimes despite years of training and experience some people aren't good at their jobs. Or there are better options.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
https://mobile.twitter.com/dvits14/status/791663599349485568

Eric Murray, Leidner, camp observers, at least one coach mentioned him summer of 2015.

The point made re Freuchte is that he was essentially demoted for perhaps the worst WR I have ever seen at the FBS level, Donovahn Jones.
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This tweet nor any that Frothy has been jamming out this week offer any proof of this conspiracy theory. MHjr5 may be awesome, but all I've seen in limited viewing time as a non-proportional number of drops. I'd like more evidence before trashing BA on that point.


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Spoofin said:
This tweet nor any that Frothy has been jamming out this week offer any proof of this conspiracy theory. MHjr5 may be awesome, but all I've seen in limited viewing time as a non-proportional number of drops. I'd like more evidence before trashing BA on that point.


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+1. his tweets are way over the top, and he's stalking a gopher position coach and his little fan club egg him on. obnoxious.
 

Do you guys think he's doing an above average job? Not just from a talent recognition standpoint. We had players running a mesh pick each other leading to a crippling pick 6. Have you ever seen that before? I haven't.

A former power 5 receiver attended summer camp in 2015 and came away unimpressed. Pretty brutal assessment, in fact.

Anecdotes all, but you start adding them up.

Also, it's not just Frothy. He's just the most entertaining. "Stalking" is normally a job for our intrepid media, but they have been MIA for as long as I can remember.
 

Spoofin said:
This tweet nor any that Frothy has been jamming out this week offer any proof of this conspiracy theory. MHjr5 may be awesome, but all I've seen in limited viewing time as a non-proportional number of drops. I'd like more evidence before trashing BA on that point.


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Would you say his drop percentage is higher or lower than Woli's PR muff percentage? I recall several of those missed throws being uncatchable or contested. He did have a few bad drops but I'd hardly call that disqualifying to making it on the field. All available evidence says he's one of our most athletic guys and runs great routes. Why can't he break the 2 deeps?
 




Pompous Elitist said:
Would you say his drop percentage is higher or lower than Woli's PR muff percentage? I recall several of those missed throws being uncatchable or contested. He did have a few bad drops but I'd hardly call that disqualifying to making it on the field. <b>All available evidence says he's one of our most athletic guys and runs great routes. </b>Why can't he break the 2 deeps?
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No clue why he can't break the 2-deep. I'm just not ready to yell some conspiracy theory w/o any evidence. BTW - I was referring to a number of bad drops I saw at virtually every practice I saw MHjr5 at. Of course it was last year and maybe all that has changed?

As to the bolded part, I would say "what evidence?" I know of none.


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Pompous Elitist said:
Do you guys think he's doing an above average job? Not just from a talent recognition standpoint. We had players running a mesh pick each other leading to a crippling pick 6. Have you ever seen that before? I haven't.

A former power 5 receiver attended summer camp in 2015 and came away unimpressed. Pretty brutal assessment, in fact.

Anecdotes all, but you start adding them up.

Also, it's not just Frothy. He's just the most entertaining. "Stalking" is normally a job for our intrepid media, but they have been MIA for as long as I can remember.
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yes i have seen this. it is rare, but it happens. and it shouldn't. but all it takes is two guys not remembering who's the high and who's the low on said mesh route
 

Spoofin said:
No clue why he can't break the 2-deep. I'm just not ready to yell some conspiracy theory w/o any evidence. BTW - I was referring to a number of bad drops I saw at virtually every practice I saw MHjr5 at. Of course it was last year and maybe all that has changed?

As to the bolded part, I would say "what evidence?" I know of none.


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So I am to take your word against the words of several other talented eyes.

And, you didn't answer my question about Wolitarsky.
 

upnorthkid said:
yes i have seen this. it is rare, but it happens. and it shouldn't. but all it takes is two guys not remembering who's the high and who's the low on said mesh route
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Who's job is it to make sure they know their calls, routes upside down, left and right. You have seen that happen on a top 25 program?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
So I am to take your word against the words of several other talented eyes.
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I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I stated my observations. You can dismiss them. I'll still be able to sleep.


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Spoofin said:
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I stated my observations. You can dismiss them. I'll still be able to sleep.


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IIRC you said Donovahn Jones was an impressive receiver. I think I'll trust my sources.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
IIRC you said Donovahn Jones was an impressive receiver. I think I'll trust my sources.
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And I recall BTN raving about DJ4 during a camp visit, so cross them off of your list of trusted sources too.

FTR - I said I don't know why your man crush can't break the 2-deep. It puzzles me too. To try and add to the discussion I mentioned my observations of him in practice as an alternative to the "BA is screwing him" conspiracy theory. As I also said, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Believe what you want, no skin off my back.


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Pompous Elitist said:
IIRC you said Donovahn Jones was an impressive receiver. I think I'll trust my sources.
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He was impressive when he was young.

I can't think of a single poster on here, Gopher fan that I knew, or any of the pay site people who weren't pumped up about Jones towards the end of his FR season. He had a couple of "wow" plays. That doesn't stand for much, but I can't think of a single person that wasn't excited about Jones passing Fruechte on the depth chart.

He was an impressive young WR, things obviously fell apart for him. However, if you don't recall that being the situation, I kind of question how closely you were watching the Gophers at the time.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Would you say his drop percentage is higher or lower than Woli's PR muff percentage? I recall several of those missed throws being uncatchable or contested. He did have a few bad drops but I'd hardly call that disqualifying to making it on the field. All available evidence says he's one of our most athletic guys and runs great routes. Why can't he break the 2 deeps?
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Is your argument that because Woli has dropped punts and passes, their must be a conspiracy against Holland?

Maybe, for as disappointing as Woli has been this season, he is STILL better than Holland.

None of the available evidence suggests he runs the best routes. I just don't get where you are getting this from. I am not defending the receivers' coach, I think he has REALLY struggled. Our lack of playmakers bothers me than our OL issues or our QB issues. Our receivers do NOT get open. However, I don't really see any evidence, whatsoever, in any sort of conspiracy to hold Holland down. IF he can't break our 2 deeps, he might not have many BCS opportunities if he chooses to leave MN.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Who's job is it to make sure they know their calls, routes upside down, left and right. You have seen that happen on a top 25 program?
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I have seen that happen in the NFL. So yes. And the coaches obviously instruct this, but it doesn't mean a guy won't mess up, mishear the call, run his route a yard too deep because he looked at the field incorrectly or whatever. The coach can't handle every single one of those little details on every play in live time
 

Jones had something because he seemed to be able to get open more often than what we are seeing now. Granted, we still couldn't get him the ball, but he at least seemed to be able to get some separation.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Would you say his drop percentage is higher or lower than Woli's PR muff percentage? I recall several of those missed throws being uncatchable or contested. He did have a few bad drops but I'd hardly call that disqualifying to making it on the field. All available evidence says he's one of our most athletic guys and runs great routes. Why can't he break the 2 deeps?
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Higher. He had two catches last year and I remember at least 2 drops that hit Holland right in the hands, and I think there may have been a few more.
 

FWIW some camp observations

Let me just add to this here...
Visited again today…talk about 2 beautiful mornings to spend outside, damn weather is gorgeous.

2 days in a row of taking in these guys and I’m glad I got back to back days because today was a lot different than yesterday…to be expected. D goes in watched film, gets their asses chewed, and comes out and has a good day. Let me be the first to say that it’s freaking BS that they went 2-man in 7on7 drills in order to do so. That’s crap, and it’s one thing I’ve noticed overall. The O and D don’t do a good job working off each other, I think they could be a little more aligned than they are in terms of that. There’s NO reason to go 2 man on day 5 in 7on7…from a practice efficiency standpoint. Anyway, they were pissed they gave up 86% comp yesterday in 7on7…lol

Mitch just…sigh…Idk guys. Let’s just say that I’m going to temper my expectations for him. The worst part is it’s not all on him. I don’t believe the QBs and WRs – pass game – is set up to help these guys succeed. There are real basic fundamental/teaching issues at the WR position, and there’s too much asked of the QB. IE: double post play side with a deep crosser coming from the other side and back in the flat. It’s just impossible to ask the QB to read post to crosser to flat…there is not enough time for that…just isn’t. On top of that we throw the post today into coverage that it should NEVER been thrown into and it was picked…that play I just mentioned needs to be read like this: "Deep crosser to flat", throw it now. Forget the post unless you know you have it…then alert the post and throw it, otherwise, do not make your QB try to do all that. Not to mention accuracy is a consistent issue with #7

I’m telling you what guys…that crop of WR is legit, they really are just young. But Brian Smith, Hunter Register, MHJ, KJ, JJ, Gant, Wolitarsky, and even a couple others look really darn good. As a group, one or 2 of those guys other than KJ should be able to step up and help…but I’m not sure it’s all set up for them to do so, at least in terms of the passing game. They got some dudes in there though, and if they can find some consistency behind C, they’ve got to be real encouraged with what they see from that group.

Hendrick Ekpe….stud. he’s going to do some things this year, he is a beast at DE. watch for #95 to flash.
Rodney Smith…looks smoother and smoother running the ball, really like him back there he’s going to be a contributor, imo.
Wozniak…He’s just gotta play. They should have him on Jugs after every practice working on those hands but he looked pretty damn good 2 days in a row. 6’10, cough.
Parra…I **** you not, if MN just didn’t need to run the QB as often as they do and had a competent passing game, this would be your starter right now. Best ball in terms of decision, accuracy, and touch. Looked very good in 2 minute/no huddle. And is by far the most consistent over the 2 day stretch.

Demry had a rookie day today, but he is one pretty looking QB…happy to have him as the QB of the future…as long as they can coach/teach him and help him develop. I have concerns there, clearly.

Overall, I’m hoping some strides can be made, but it’ surprising that at this level, with these salaries that somethings aren’t getting taught or taught well.

1, 2, 3, 4, I declare a thumb war



by redacted on 08.11.15 1:45pm
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Is your argument that because Woli has dropped punts and passes, their must be a conspiracy against Holland?

Maybe, for as disappointing as Woli has been this season, he is STILL better than Holland.

None of the available evidence suggests he runs the best routes. I just don't get where you are getting this from. I am not defending the receivers' coach, I think he has REALLY struggled. Our lack of playmakers bothers me than our OL issues or our QB issues. Our receivers do NOT get open. However, I don't really see any evidence, whatsoever, in any sort of conspiracy to hold Holland down. IF he can't break our 2 deeps, he might not have many BCS opportunities if he chooses to leave MN.
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No. The point is that coaches don't always make good or rational decisions.
 

If Gentry is injured, why doesn't it show on the weekly depth roster? Ace Rogers shows up.
 

Most of u are just guessing on here making **** up...
I want someone in the know to say what is really going on with these 2

Gentry is the best WR on the team.... no he is not hurt hasn't been on injury report for weeks..never understand the Ryan burns and fullers garrds will never say what is going on?

Holland.. I was at the game I never seen him on the sidelines? Might of missed him but I didn't see him. Again no info from the people in the know.

These two should be on the field...we talk about still,and woli, carter... reallly these two aren't better than carter really? What has he done? Smith is there best WR that plays and it isn't even close... so if he is there best why didn't he play before this year??

Is it coaching? Playing favorites? Is it horrible QB play where u can only see one WR? He more answers than we are getting?

I predation is they both transferred and have left the team since everything is so hush... why doesn't media ever ask questions about them.. because they know the real story.
 

Like David Cobb stepping in late in his career, let's hope that some of these WRs are developing to be impactful players in their junior & sophomore years.
 

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