All Things Class of 2020 Recruiting Thread

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Yet another ******* Pitino disaster.

Should have been gone 2 years ago. For as much credit as Coyle deserves for other hires, retaining Pitino almost nullifies all the good.
 

RTB-87 said:
Giving schollies to kids who don’t deserve them (from a pure skill standpoint) is clearly not something that should be happening. Even an average Grad Transfer that provides depth and gives you the opportunity to re-evaluate in 9 months is infinitely better outcome. Resorting to this yet another year would be terrible.
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I'll push back a bit on the open schollies. You need to offer the right people. Just filling with warm bodies can lead to an equal recipe for disaster in locker room dynamics. I like taking fliers on a sit out transfer or two or a kid willing to redshirt. Also many people are saying that a ton of programs will be wanting open schollies and not filling them if the one time transfer rule comes into effect next season.

I'm not a Musselman blowhard like many are on here, but I do think his roster management philosophy isn't off. Only really want 9-10 (plus 2 walk ons) guys who can play anyways. Fill the rest with redshirts and transfers. Players don't like riding pine or are willing to wait their turn. This forces them too and then doesn't always wreck the locker room.

Grad transfers are fine if they understand the deal and keep the peace and does allow for another reassessment or evals on the next years players so I do get your point there for sure.
 

leib0039 said:
Correct!

And certainly looks like where we are headed this year. 2 open scholarships and looks like the transfer waiver is dead so going to have at least 2 if not 3 "dead" roster spots this year.
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Transfer market isn't even close to being over yet.
 


leib0039 said:
Correct!

And certainly looks like where we are headed this year. 2 open scholarships and looks like the transfer waiver is dead so going to have at least 2 if not 3 "dead" roster spots this year.
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Were still gonna add to roster. I wouldnt panic quite yet. No way we can afford not too. Robbins, carr, and curry are question marks right now. Let's see what happens with gach and mutaf. Were gachs best option right now since there will not be vote for transfer eligibility until next year.
 



We will add another player. Also, i like when a walk on earns a scholarship. As someone mentioned it can be a huge boost to team chemistry. There are sever super successful programs that do it regularly and often those guys lead the energy of the green team as they are playing with pure passion on a designated assignment almost always without glory. Hell some rose to starting roles ! I have been present when one was awarded to a young man who personified the values of the program and that moment at practice brought a close team even closer.
 


RTB-87 said:
Giving schollies to kids who don’t deserve them (from a pure skill standpoint) is clearly not something that should be happening. Even an average Grad Transfer that provides depth and gives you the opportunity to re-evaluate in 9 months is infinitely better outcome. Resorting to this yet another year would be terrible.
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Who are you referring to? We have given scholarships to guys early in the process who shouldn’t have been offered but late...who? Greenlee can play imo. He’s just not a fit for Pitino to utilize to spell Carr. Roster management is the issue.
Have we ever had 8 or 9 guys you think might offer some effectiveness on a given night?
We need competition. We need as many capable bodies as possible. We have proven guys get hurt or become ineligible and we got 6 guys every year.
The guys we add need to be eligible.
Pitino is not in a position to build next years team. He’s gotta win. That won’t happen without adding eligible players. You 100% sure Carr is returning? If it appears Robbins won’t get a waiver....it’s easy to see Carr playing in G league or Europe.
There is a lot of reasons Pitino needs two eligible guys to the roster now. Yes, they need to be able to play. Curry is iffy. Freeman wasn’t given any minutes (dumb).
Mitchell is really likely not to see minutes and I’m pessimistic if he does.
We need two eligible guys who can play. If Carr leaves we need to find a third.
It’s common sense. If it doesn’t happen, the only way he might have a job is Holmgren and Brown commit. Mutaf will be a freshman and Gach should be able to get a waiver on hardship, family etc.
Hope Robbins gets one and Carr returns...all that happens we win our 20 plus games and life is good.
 



60's Guy said:
Who are you referring to? We have given scholarships to guys early in the process who shouldn’t have been offered but late...who? Greenlee can play imo. He’s just not a fit for Pitino to utilize to spell Carr. Roster management is the issue.
Have we ever had 8 or 9 guys you think might offer some effectiveness on a given night?
We need competition. We need as many capable bodies as possible. We have proven guys get hurt or become ineligible and we got 6 guys every year.
The guys we add need to be eligible.
Pitino is not in a position to build next years team. He’s gotta win. That won’t happen without adding eligible players. You 100% sure Carr is returning? If it appears Robbins won’t get a waiver....it’s easy to see Carr playing in G league or Europe.
There is a lot of reasons Pitino needs two eligible guys to the roster now. Yes, they need to be able to play. Curry is iffy. Freeman wasn’t given any minutes (dumb).
Mitchell is really likely not to see minutes and I’m pessimistic if he does.
We need two eligible guys who can play. If Carr leaves we need to find a third.
It’s common sense. If it doesn’t happen, the only way he might have a job is Holmgren and Brown commit. Mutaf will be a freshman and Gach should be able to get a waiver on hardship, family etc.
Hope Robbins gets one and Carr returns...all that happens we win our 20 plus games and life is good.
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Nailed it
 

theczar said:
you need a IQ. upgrade...
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HA so what is the preposterous part of my statement about having 2-3 dead scholarships for this year?

The one time transfer wasnt passed and if history is any indicator, we are not likely to get waivers. So lets pretend we end up with what everyone seems to see as best case scenario, Gach and Mutaf committing.

Gach/Robbins--Maybe get 1 of them but again our luck that is 2 sit out guys--2 "dead"
Curry--Great kid but it is really hard to trust him at this point with rough knees--0.5 "dead"
Mutaf--Even if we think he will be good, it seems REALLY unlikely he is here any time soon, and as we saw with Ihnen, that means at least 1/2 of the year he wont be a big part of the team. 0.5 "dead".
Freeman--We all hope he progresses, especially with Oturu gone, but to say he is 100% going to produce this year I think is wishful thinking. 0.5 dead

And sure, could things work out perfect and we get 2 waivers, Curry is healthy, Freeman sees a bump and Mutaf is ready sooner than expected sure. But it could also go the other way and we get 0 waivers, Curry simply can't be himself and Mutaf is just not ready. That is essentially 4 scholarships that we no longer have access to for this year. I never said I dont like Robbins, Gach, Curry or Mutaf, I am simply stating there is a chance (maybe a better than 50% one) that we have 2-4 roster spots that simply cannot see the floor this year. Which I have said over and over has been an issue for Pitino. I guess if you think that is completely out of the realm of possibility than I don't know what to tell you other than to take off the maroon/gold shades and be semi realistic.
 

leib0039 said:
HA so what is the preposterous part of my statement about having 2-3 dead scholarships for this year?

The one time transfer wasnt passed and if history is any indicator, we are not likely to get waivers. So lets pretend we end up with what everyone seems to see as best case scenario, Gach and Mutaf committing.

Gach/Robbins--Maybe get 1 of them but again our luck that is 2 sit out guys--2 "dead"
Curry--Great kid but it is really hard to trust him at this point with rough knees--0.5 "dead"
Mutaf--Even if we think he will be good, it seems REALLY unlikely he is here any time soon, and as we saw with Ihnen, that means at least 1/2 of the year he wont be a big part of the team. 0.5 "dead".
Freeman--We all hope he progresses, especially with Oturu gone, but to say he is 100% going to produce this year I think is wishful thinking. 0.5 dead

And sure, could things work out perfect and we get 2 waivers, Curry is healthy, Freeman sees a bump and Mutaf is ready sooner than expected sure. But it could also go the other way and we get 0 waivers, Curry simply can't be himself and Mutaf is just not ready. That is essentially 4 scholarships that we no longer have access to for this year. I never said I dont like Robbins, Gach, Curry or Mutaf, I am simply stating there is a chance (maybe a better than 50% one) that we have 2-4 roster spots that simply cannot see the floor this year. Which I have said over and over has been an issue for Pitino. I guess if you think that is completely out of the realm of possibility than I don't know what to tell you other than to take off the maroon/gold shades and be semi realistic.
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Bold 1: Ihnen was hurt to start the season.

Bold 2: 2-4 roster spots that can't see the floor = 9-11 that can right? How many programs play more than that?
 

leib0039 said:
HA so what is the preposterous part of my statement about having 2-3 dead scholarships for this year?

The one time transfer wasnt passed and if history is any indicator, we are not likely to get waivers. So lets pretend we end up with what everyone seems to see as best case scenario, Gach and Mutaf committing.

Gach/Robbins--Maybe get 1 of them but again our luck that is 2 sit out guys--2 "dead"
Curry--Great kid but it is really hard to trust him at this point with rough knees--0.5 "dead"
Mutaf--Even if we think he will be good, it seems REALLY unlikely he is here any time soon, and as we saw with Ihnen, that means at least 1/2 of the year he wont be a big part of the team. 0.5 "dead".
Freeman--We all hope he progresses, especially with Oturu gone, but to say he is 100% going to produce this year I think is wishful thinking. 0.5 dead

And sure, could things work out perfect and we get 2 waivers, Curry is healthy, Freeman sees a bump and Mutaf is ready sooner than expected sure. But it could also go the other way and we get 0 waivers, Curry simply can't be himself and Mutaf is just not ready. That is essentially 4 scholarships that we no longer have access to for this year. I never said I dont like Robbins, Gach, Curry or Mutaf, I am simply stating there is a chance (maybe a better than 50% one) that we have 2-4 roster spots that simply cannot see the floor this year. Which I have said over and over has been an issue for Pitino. I guess if you think that is completely out of the realm of possibility than I don't know what to tell you other than to take off the maroon/gold shades and be semi realistic.
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We have had one player get a waiver denied and it had to do with Pitt admin not backing it and being petty. Over 95% get approved and it’s like 99% if the old school approves it. We gotta let go of the Carr situation being the norm.
 



Must get Robbins. Then get Gach committed and eligible. These two on board and it will get interesting. All else is gravy. Could maybe get along without Gach as German KD (great nickname) could hopefully help out in that role, but absolutely need Robbins eligible.
(I assume we have Carr)
 
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bfriedrichs10 said:
Bold 1: Ihnen was hurt to start the season.

Bold 2: 2-4 roster spots that can't see the floor = 9-11 that can right? How many programs play more than that?
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I guess I will keep my opinion to myself if that would leave 9-11 as playable. I was more talking about guys who just can't be on the floor for one reason or another
 

leib0039 said:
HA so what is the preposterous part of my statement about having 2-3 dead scholarships for this year?

The one time transfer wasnt passed and if history is any indicator, we are not likely to get waivers. So lets pretend we end up with what everyone seems to see as best case scenario, Gach and Mutaf committing.

Gach/Robbins--Maybe get 1 of them but again our luck that is 2 sit out guys--2 "dead"
Curry--Great kid but it is really hard to trust him at this point with rough knees--0.5 "dead"
Mutaf--Even if we think he will be good, it seems REALLY unlikely he is here any time soon, and as we saw with Ihnen, that means at least 1/2 of the year he wont be a big part of the team. 0.5 "dead".
Freeman--We all hope he progresses, especially with Oturu gone, but to say he is 100% going to produce this year I think is wishful thinking. 0.5 dead

And sure, could things work out perfect and we get 2 waivers, Curry is healthy, Freeman sees a bump and Mutaf is ready sooner than expected sure. But it could also go the other way and we get 0 waivers, Curry simply can't be himself and Mutaf is just not ready. That is essentially 4 scholarships that we no longer have access to for this year. I never said I dont like Robbins, Gach, Curry or Mutaf, I am simply stating there is a chance (maybe a better than 50% one) that we have 2-4 roster spots that simply cannot see the floor this year. Which I have said over and over has been an issue for Pitino. I guess if you think that is completely out of the realm of possibility than I don't know what to tell you other than to take off the maroon/gold shades and be semi realistic.
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unlikely the gophs do not sign any more players who are eligible... Gach is a dead mortal lock to get a waiver here...there is this thing called closer to home and he would be a lot closer to home and the closest D1 program to his home. 99% of D1 mens basketball teams have a game rotation of ten players or less
 

manderson1984 said:
We have had one player get a waiver denied and it had to do with Pitt admin not backing it and being petty. Over 95% get approved and it’s like 99% if the old school approves it. We gotta let go of the Carr situation being the norm.
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You may want a better source on your numbers. No where near 95 % get approved. There are four ways to qualify for waiver approval and if you meet one of them you will get approved. They will be adding if your coach retires, takes a new job to the following that already exist.
1)No longer playing time available at old school.
2) Victim of egregious behavior that affect your well being.
3)Because of injury or illness to a family member you want to be closer too.
4)Going closer to home because of injury or illness of your own, including clinical mental illness.

They are not random with favorable rulings to certain schools.
 

manderson1984 said:
We have had one player get a waiver denied and it had to do with Pitt admin not backing it and being petty. Over 95% get approved and it’s like 99% if the old school approves it. We gotta let go of the Carr situation being the norm.
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So Pitt being petty prevented a kid who wanted to move on, and the ncaa allowed the pettiness instead of the alternative. ncaa.
 

builtbadgers said:
You may want a better source on your numbers. No where near 95 % get approved. There are four ways to qualify for waiver approval and if you meet one of them you will get approved. They will be adding if your coach retires, takes a new job to the following that already exist.
1)No longer playing time available at old school.
2) Victim of egregious behavior that affect your well being.
3)Because of injury or illness to a family member you want to be closer too.
4)Going closer to home because of injury or illness of your own, including clinical mental illness.

They are not random with favorable rulings to certain schools.
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I never said there were random favorable rulings, but when looking at approving waivers, they talk to the previous school. RJ and plenty of others have said Pitt wouldn't approve it for Carr which in most cases is extremely rare especially the last couple years. Another example was UNLV not cooperating with Ntambwe going to TT and his getting denied.

I said 95% of players that apply for waivers get them not all kids who transfer. Jeff Goodman kept tally of it on twitter last year. That's who I'm using for my data point. Feel free to prove it wrong and I'll gladly accept your data too.

My main point is if they feel they can get Robbins to apply for a waiver under one of those 4 things and Drake cooperates and approves, it'll happen. We will know by the fact if they even apply for it.
 


builtbadgers said:
We will add another player. Also, i like when a walk on earns a scholarship. As someone mentioned it can be a huge boost to team chemistry. There are sever super successful programs that do it regularly and often those guys lead the energy of the green team as they are playing with pure passion on a designated assignment almost always without glory. Hell some rose to starting roles ! I have been present when one was awarded to a young man who personified the values of the program and that moment at practice brought a close team even closer.
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The use of Brady Rudrud last year was brilliant by Pitino.
 


leib0039 said:
I guess I will keep my opinion to myself if that would leave 9-11 as playable. I was more talking about guys who just can't be on the floor for one reason or another
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It is called development and building depth. A sit one transfer is the same as a red shirt, except the transfer usually has more experience and has already proven that they can play college BB. It is poaching the best players off of smaller schools and putting them on your bench.
 

alchemy2u said:
It is called development and building depth. A sit one transfer is the same as a red shirt, except the transfer usually has more experience and has already proven that they can play college BB. It is poaching the best players off of smaller schools and putting them on your bench.
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Transfer also doesn't have a choice so they have to buy in. Redshirts work, but you have to recruit them that way out of HS and talk them into the benefits. It's not an easy sell to a HS kid who's the man at their respective school or on their team when they have other offers that don't require it.
 

manderson1984 said:
I never said there were random favorable rulings, but when looking at approving waivers, they talk to the previous school. RJ and plenty of others have said Pitt wouldn't approve it for Carr which in most cases is extremely rare especially the last couple years. Another example was UNLV not cooperating with Ntambwe going to TT and his getting denied.

I said 95% of players that apply for waivers get them not all kids who transfer. Jeff Goodman kept tally of it on twitter last year. That's who I'm using for my data point. Feel free to prove it wrong and I'll gladly accept your data too.

My main point is if they feel they can get Robbins to apply for a waiver under one of those 4 things and Drake cooperates and approves, it'll happen. We will know by the fact if they even apply for it.
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At this point, knowing that this will be approved next january, I dont see why they will deny a bunch of people. My guess is most everyone will get approved, especially with covid-19. If they came out and said that though there will be like 30 more kids transfer in the next month. My bet is they wont deny too many people. I may be wrong, but just my opinion!
 



GopherBlood666 said:
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I'd be pretty damn psyched about Mutaf. It's clear from that video - regardless of level of play - that he has an outside shot, he can hit some contested shots and he can hit shots on the move/get to the basket with the ball.

To compare his film to our other Euro (Ihnen, who I really really like btw): I feel like Ihnen's video that I was watching last year definitely had more of a small high school feel to it. From my recollection, most of the 3s Ihnen was hitting in his film were spot-up 3s where he wasn't contested. I also felt like a lot of his inside buckets were dunks or fast-break layups.

It appears to me that Mutaf is likely already a better ballhandler and more adept at driving to the hoop with the ball (something Ihnen lacked his frosh year). Now I'm not saying Mutaf would def be better than Ihnen (Isaiah has some physical traits you can't teach) or that he will come in and blow it out his freshman year. I'm simply saying that I think his offensive game looks a bit more refined from this film.
 

Watched a full game on YouTube that Mutuf played in. One takeaway I had was that his coach seemed to put a lot of trust in him and that he pretty much had the green light to shoot. Also, when things seemed to be getting out of control the team would get the ball to Mutaf and he would calm things down and generally make a good decision.
 


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