All Things Class of 2020 Recruiting Thread

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manderson1984 said:
Especially for the 2019 class but who should’ve they gotten?
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Some of them? ONE??

Also, You're forgetting Greenlee and the stiff from Texas in your never ending need to apologize for Pitino.
 

USAF said:
Some of them? ONE??

Also, You're forgetting Greenlee and the stiff from Texas in your never ending need to apologize for Pitino.
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Dude I said I’ve been in favor of moving on from Pitino. I just prefer to use more valid fair arguments for his dismissal (and there are plenty). Roddy would’ve been a take over Freeman or Greenlee and is the only real loss to a school and program that is better than ours, Unless you believe Mason Madsen should’ve been offered and then we could’ve maybe gotten Gabe.
 

manderson1984 said:
Especially for the 2019 class but who should’ve they gotten? How many of those kids chose a worse program that we offered? I count Roddy and that’s it so far.
Also of those who would you take over Ihenen, Williams, Mashburn, or a Mitchell
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Tyrell Terry was a name that flew under my radar. He woulda been a great guy to get. Woulda been playing no doubt behind Carr and we need to be able to win against Stanford.
It's frustrating to go 0 for 4 over those 2 years on Nnaji, Dainja, Carlson, and Garcia when we need post play. Not counting Hurt, that's a bad look. I understand these are top level guys, but you gotta get at least 1, maybe 2. It's a result of the tenure of Pitino and relationships he hasn't developed in MN, I get it, but we can't accept those losses in years to come and I don't expect that to continue.

This is a Big 10 school, only one in the state. Tubby had Rodney and Royce in the same class.

The very least you take some of the bottom guys as long as you can develop them into good players. You've got 15 (10-12 Big10 Capable) guys on those lists over those 2 years and no U symbols. You can't have that.

Ihnen looks great. Mashburn maybe will be. Williams solid. Mitchell probably solid. But you've got guys right here that can get it done no doubt and ranked about the same level or above. Give me a MN kid over a kid from somewhere else ranked similarly all day. But also Pitino knew he had another scholarship this year along with Mashburn and Mitchell. Those guys never needed to be replaced.

Biggest problem is we're not winning with those kids from out of state. Not their faults. Everything is exacerbated when you're losing.
 
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skiumah1 said:
Tyrell Terry was a name that flew under my radar. He woulda been a great guy to get. Woulda been playing no doubt behind Carr and we need to be able to win against Stanford.
It's frustrating to go 0 for 4 over those 2 years on Nnaji, Dainja, Carlson, and Garcia when we need post play. Not counting Hurt, that's a bad look. I understand these are top level guys, but you gotta get at least 1, maybe 2. It's a result of the tenure of Pitino and relationships he hasn't developed in MN, I get it, but we can't accept those losses in years to come and I don't expect that to continue.

This is a Big 10 school, only one in the state. Tubby had Rodney and Royce in the same class.

The very least you take some of the bottom guys as long as you can develop them into good players. You've got 15 (10-12 Big10 Capable) guys on those lists over those 2 years and no U symbols. You can't have that.

Ihnen looks great. Mashburn maybe will be. Williams solid. Mitchell probably solid. But you've got guys right here that can get it done no doubt.
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Terry was a Stanford kid period. He valued the education aspect and we plus many others had no shot. That’s why he was “undervalued” because most schools knew it. Agreed that I love his game and honestly think he’s better than Carr.
I can’t say this enough but recruiting is different now a days. Kids don’t stay or want to stay nearly as much as they used to. It’s just the way it is. Now you can fairly argue relationships and those two classes were no doubt affected negatively by losing Ben Johnson on the relationship end, but look at where those guys went. Not like they went to Northwestern or NDSU. They went to top tier programs that are better than us. Can’t blame the kid for taking the best option available. For us to get to those levels we need to find specific kids who want to be here and fit what we are trying to do (one can argue we don’t know or have an identity), and you do with underrated guys like a Roddy. Dainja might not have been eligible here, Zekes goal was to go pro, Carlson didn’t think our staff was good enough, but he fits what Whiskey does to a T. Garcia went to a better program in Marquette although his lead recruiter did just leave for a head job.
I think it’s fair to judge recruiting as I think it’s not been as good as it needs to be, but it’s an identity issue not a geographical one.
 


manderson1984 said:
Terry was a Stanford kid period. He valued the education aspect and we plus many others had no shot. That’s why he was “undervalued” because most schools knew it. Agreed that I love his game and honestly think he’s better than Carr.
I can’t say this enough but recruiting is different now a days. Kids don’t stay or want to stay nearly as much as they used to. It’s just the way it is. Now you can fairly argue relationships and those two classes were no doubt affected negatively by losing Ben Johnson on the relationship end, but look at where those guys went. Not like they went to Northwestern or NDSU. They went to top tier programs that are better than us. Can’t blame the kid for taking the best option available. For us to get to those levels we need to find specific kids who want to be here and fit what we are trying to do (one can argue we don’t know or have an identity), and you do with underrated guys like a Roddy. Dainja might not have been eligible here, Zekes goal was to go pro, Carlson didn’t think our staff was good enough, but he fits what Whiskey does to a T. Garcia went to a better program in Marquette although his lead recruiter did just leave for a head job.
I think it’s fair to judge recruiting as I think it’s not been as good as it needs to be, but it’s an identity issue not a geographical one.
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I just think geography can only be an advantage when it comes to recruiting. It all just comes down to winning games and we're not doing that. That's just what it is right now. I would like to think the next coach is able to get a couple of those guys to stay though. Thorson making connections or Craig Smith making connections are examples I think you could have of relationship development to turn those recruits. Just be better at recruiting to your home kids and making pitches. We love it as fans, specifically the more fair weather fans, when you get Minnesota kids to play here who people know. All about the staff.
 

It comes down to winning and the fact that our boys won't pay. Marquette as an example. It's in a dirty town. Top 10 murder rate in the US. Decent not great basketball program. But getting that cold hard cash makes it possible. Also a a promise to not have to do school work and easy girls. Flat out. Figure it out people. Pay the money or these top recruits will keep leaving. That is why they go. For cash
 

Go Gophs said:
It comes down to winning and the fact that our boys won't pay. Marquette as an example. It's in a dirty town. Top 10 murder rate in the US. Decent not great basketball program. But getting that cold hard cash makes it possible. Also a a promise to not have to do school work and easy girls. Flat out. Figure it out people. Pay the money or these top recruits will keep leaving. That is why they go. For cash
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There is no doubt that some of that is happening. They uncovered a number of the top coaches and you know for sure that's the tip of the iceberg.

I think Pitino in a reaction to the trouble his dad has gotten into over time is the ultimate straight shooter. From past recruiting stories, he never pressures a kid to make the decision on the spot on a visit. I think a lot of other schools pay and use pressure tactics that don't happen here.
 

Go Gophs said:
It comes down to winning and the fact that our boys won't pay. Marquette as an example. It's in a dirty town. Top 10 murder rate in the US. Decent not great basketball program. But getting that cold hard cash makes it possible. Also a a promise to not have to do school work and easy girls. Flat out. Figure it out people. Pay the money or these top recruits will keep leaving. That is why they go. For cash
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I can't imagine that continues to be the case. But you might be right if the NCAA won't let go of Will Wade at LSU. That blows my mind he still has his job.

With all of the social media and endless spread of knowledge and news nowadays I can't believe how coaches would continue to get away with this without shit popping up.

I don't buy Carlson taking money from Wisconsin. I don't buy Terry taking money from Stanford. I don't buy Dainja taking money from Baylor with all the violations they had at Baylor. I don't buy all recruits or even the majority taking money to play somewhere. They all get great perks at big-time schools, including MN, where I had a buddy as a manager there for a couple years. They get all their meals. They get a shit ton of help with school. I don't buy a bunch of Will Wade's out there.
 



Well look what happens even when they get caught? UNC doesn't even lose a thing for players flat out not going to college. Kansas is basically caught red handed paying players yet they don't do a thing to them. It's dumb, but it's the way it is. That is why the U of M was THE dumbest athletic program of all time when they skewered Clem Haskins years ago. This program has still not recovered from that. Had that happened at Duke, they would have stuck up for him, denied it and told the NCAA to pound sand they aren't gonna fire him.
 

IMO, college basketball in the NCAA at the D1 level is on the verge of total collapse. EVERYONE out there knows it is rife with cheating. So now players, etc are pushing no college in order to go the NBA, anyone can transfer without sitting out, etc. They did it to themselves. NCAA basketball is going down the road to not being relevant in the near future and it is IMO because they have let all of this slide as long as it was being done by their "hand picked" blue bloods.
 

Go Gophs said:
IMO, college basketball in the NCAA at the D1 level is on the verge of total collapse. EVERYONE out there knows it is rife with cheating. So now players, etc are pushing no college in order to go the NBA, anyone can transfer without sitting out, etc. They did it to themselves. NCAA basketball is going down the road to not being relevant in the near future and it is IMO because they have let all of this slide as long as it was being done by their "hand picked" blue bloods.
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They gotta go back to guys being able to go straight from high school to the NBA. Get guys outta there that don't wanna be there. College basketball was better before this new rule. We didn't need it.

I understand the top college recruits then just become the kids who receive the new treatment, but just punish those hard and college basketball should be fine. Encourage kids to go to the NBA or Europe. The level of basketball goes down but the game will be fine.

Also I'm not a political guy, but also imagine if 4 year universities did become free at some point down the line. I'm only speaking in regard to college basketball. This seems like it would be a good thing for the sport. Yes, payments and scandals would continue, but once again, punish them hard and it should work itself out.

Or I suppose just pay the players like they've been talking about for a couple years. Equal profits across the board if possible. Ideally the NCAA would distribute that money.
 
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skiumah1 said:
They gotta go back to guys being able to go straight from high school to the NBA. Get guys outta there that don't wanna be there. College basketball was better before this new rule. We didn't need it.

I understand the top college recruits then just become the kids who receive the new treatment, but just punish those hard and college basketball should be fine. Encourage kids to go to the NBA or Europe. The level of basketball goes down but the game will be fine.

Also I'm not a political guy, but also imagine if 4 year universities did become free at some point down the line. I'm only speaking in regard to college basketball. This seems like it would be a good thing for the sport. Yes, payments and scandals would continue, but once again, punish them hard and it should work itself out.
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That's a good point.(y)
 



manderson1984 said:
Especially for the 2019 class but who should’ve they gotten? How many of those kids chose a worse program that we offered? I count Roddy and that’s it so far.
Also of those who would you take over Ihenen, Williams, Mashburn, or a Mitchell
Click to expand...

That's kinda where I'm at. It seems like the complaints about in-state recruiting are often very surface-level, just kinda like "there's good players in Minnesota, and we just gotta have 'em!" with little regard for position or fit, which players left our roster at what time, what part of the recruiting cycle did certain positions become a need, or who else is recruiting them, what sort of other opportunities these recruits have access to.

My personal assessment:

2019:

Matthew Hurt: 5 star, went to a more successful program, wouldn't expect us to get him

Zeke Nnaji: top 40 player, went to a more successful program led by one of the best recruiters in the country, led his team in scoring, got to be the premier big man on his team, leaving for the NBA after one season

Tyrell Terry: 4 star point guard, went to one of the most reputable academic institutions in the country, second on his team in scoring, second in minutes at over 32 mpg as a freshman, seems to have had a really good season in all honesty. At the time of his commitment in June 2018, Minnesota had Isaiah Washington on the roster as our projected point guard of the future, as well as Marcus Carr waiting in the wings as he sat out for his transfer red shirt year. Terry would not have gotten 30+ mpg at point guard on this year's Minnesota team.

Tyler Wahl: From looking at stats, seems kind of similar to Isaiah Ihnen but slightly worse. Wahl averages more steals and assists per 40 minutes, Ihnen averages more points and rebounds, shoots a higher percentage, and commits fewer fouls and turnovers.

David Roddy also had a better season than I would have expected. 11.4 points and 5.6 rebounds in 25 minutes a game. Seems pretty good for what I understood to be basically a power forward in a shooting guard's body, but it looks like Colorado State only has 2 players over 6'6", so maybe you can make that work in the Mountain West. He seemed like a bit of a reach for us at the time, and I'm pretty okay with not getting him.

2020:

Jalen Suggs: 5 star, went to a more successful program, similar story to Matthew Hurt or most of the other 5 star recruits who leave the state, granted Gonzaga doesn't have the recruiting clout of Duke. Unsurprised that we didn't get him.

Dawson Garcia: top 30 player, borderline 5 star, would have been the biggest recruiting victory in a decade if we made it happen. This one I'm a little more torn on, since he took an official visit here and it kinda felt like we had a shot, and that fellow finalists Marquette and Indiana seemed like relatively beatable opponents on the recruiting trail compared to North Carolina, Arizona, Kansas, Duke etc. Depending on your perspective, you give the staff credit for getting us a fighting chance at landing the big fish, or you say close doesn't count for anything and the staff screwed up a big time recruiting opportunity for our program.

Dain Dainja: Right around top 50, same area where Amir Coffey ended up a few years ago. Heard we and other schools backed off due to academic concerns.

Ben Carlson: I don't really know what the deal with his recruitment was. It seemed like, for some reason, we were never considered a serious player in it for some reason or another, and for the longest time it was between Xavier and Stanford. After Stanford got a commitment from Max Murrell, coincidentally one of Minnesota's out of state big man targets from Nebraska, it seemed like it would probably be Xavier. I believe Ben Johnson set up a visit, but then maybe Steven Crowl got in his ear convinced him to join up at Wisconsin instead. His commitment to Wisconsin came fairly out of left field. Idk if our staff didn't establish a good relationship with him, or he just really wanted to leave the state for college.

Kerwin Walton: Might be the highest ranked high school senior still available, with offers from better programs. 247 also says Rob Jeter was his main recruiter, so idk if our ship is just sunk right there. Interestingly, there is also not a single crystal ball prediction for him. I assume all of our staff has some degree of relationship with him. I think last summer I heard the staff was maybe prioritizing Gabe Madsen ahead of Walton, which might have been a mistake. I thought Walton attended 2 or 3 of our home games back in January or February. I hope we get him, but I also get the feeling he's not gonna be a game changer as a freshman or anything.

Gabe Madsen: Seemed like we wouldn't get him unless we offered his brother, who did not appear to be a high major player. I'm okay that we chose not to effectively use up two scholarships to get one 3 star player.

Steven Crowl: I wasn't really sure if the staff badly wanted him or not. Martice Mitchell is a higher rated prospect at a similar position. I got the feeling Mitchell is not a low post banger, and 247 lists Crowl as a center and Mitchell as a PF. Depending on your opinion on roster need, particularly if you think Ihnen has the 4 spot covered and Freeman won't amount to anything, you could make the argument that the staff should have made Crowl a top priority.



So in the end, I think Tyrell Terry would have been a good addition that we maybe could have reasonably gotten, but he plays the same position as Marcus Carr, which likely would have limited his contributions, unless he was going to start alongside Carr ahead of Willis or Kalscheur. Dawson Garcia would have been a big win, bigger than we've had in quite some time, so it hurts that we didn't get him since it seemed like it might happen, but I also don't think it's a show of utter incompetence either. It seemed like Carlson was just never interested in us for some reason, and you could maybe argue the staff ideally should have never bothered with Gabe Madsen and gone hard after Walton the whole time. I guess from my own perception, I don't see our in-state recruiting as the unending sequence of colossal, bone-head mistakes that some others view it as.
 

Cayman said:
That's kinda where I'm at. It seems like the complaints about in-state recruiting are often very surface-level, just kinda like "there's good players in Minnesota, and we just gotta have 'em!" with little regard for position or fit, which players left our roster at what time, what part of the recruiting cycle did certain positions become a need, or who else is recruiting them, what sort of other opportunities these recruits have access to.

My personal assessment:

2019:

Matthew Hurt: 5 star, went to a more successful program, wouldn't expect us to get him

Zeke Nnaji: top 40 player, went to a more successful program led by one of the best recruiters in the country, led his team in scoring, got to be the premier big man on his team, leaving for the NBA after one season

Tyrell Terry: 4 star point guard, went to one of the most reputable academic institutions in the country, second on his team in scoring, second in minutes at over 32 mpg as a freshman, seems to have had a really good season in all honesty. At the time of his commitment in June 2018, Minnesota had Isaiah Washington on the roster as our projected point guard of the future, as well as Marcus Carr waiting in the wings as he sat out for his transfer red shirt year. Terry would not have gotten 30+ mpg at point guard on this year's Minnesota team.

Tyler Wahl: From looking at stats, seems kind of similar to Isaiah Ihnen but slightly worse. Wahl averages more steals and assists per 40 minutes, Ihnen averages more points and rebounds, shoots a higher percentage, and commits fewer fouls and turnovers.

David Roddy also had a better season than I would have expected. 11.4 points and 5.6 rebounds in 25 minutes a game. Seems pretty good for what I understood to be basically a power forward in a shooting guard's body, but it looks like Colorado State only has 2 players over 6'6", so maybe you can make that work in the Mountain West. He seemed like a bit of a reach for us at the time, and I'm pretty okay with not getting him.

2020:

Jalen Suggs: 5 star, went to a more successful program, similar story to Matthew Hurt or most of the other 5 star recruits who leave the state, granted Gonzaga doesn't have the recruiting clout of Duke. Unsurprised that we didn't get him.

Dawson Garcia: top 30 player, borderline 5 star, would have been the biggest recruiting victory in a decade if we made it happen. This one I'm a little more torn on, since he took an official visit here and it kinda felt like we had a shot, and that fellow finalists Marquette and Indiana seemed like relatively beatable opponents on the recruiting trail compared to North Carolina, Arizona, Kansas, Duke etc. Depending on your perspective, you give the staff credit for getting us a fighting chance at landing the big fish, or you say close doesn't count for anything and the staff screwed up a big time recruiting opportunity for our program.

Dain Dainja: Right around top 50, same area where Amir Coffey ended up a few years ago. Heard we and other schools backed off due to academic concerns.

Ben Carlson: I don't really know what the deal with his recruitment was. It seemed like, for some reason, we were never considered a serious player in it for some reason or another, and for the longest time it was between Xavier and Stanford. After Stanford got a commitment from Max Murrell, coincidentally one of Minnesota's out of state big man targets from Nebraska, it seemed like it would probably be Xavier. I believe Ben Johnson set up a visit, but then maybe Steven Crowl got in his ear convinced him to join up at Wisconsin instead. His commitment to Wisconsin came fairly out of left field. Idk if our staff didn't establish a good relationship with him, or he just really wanted to leave the state for college.

Kerwin Walton: Might be the highest ranked high school senior still available, with offers from better programs. 247 also says Rob Jeter was his main recruiter, so idk if our ship is just sunk right there. Interestingly, there is also not a single crystal ball prediction for him. I assume all of our staff has some degree of relationship with him. I think last summer I heard the staff was maybe prioritizing Gabe Madsen ahead of Walton, which might have been a mistake. I thought Walton attended 2 or 3 of our home games back in January or February. I hope we get him, but I also get the feeling he's not gonna be a game changer as a freshman or anything.

Gabe Madsen: Seemed like we wouldn't get him unless we offered his brother, who did not appear to be a high major player. I'm okay that we chose not to effectively use up two scholarships to get one 3 star player.

Steven Crowl: I wasn't really sure if the staff badly wanted him or not. Martice Mitchell is a higher rated prospect at a similar position. I got the feeling Mitchell is not a low post banger, and 247 lists Crowl as a center and Mitchell as a PF. Depending on your opinion on roster need, particularly if you think Ihnen has the 4 spot covered and Freeman won't amount to anything, you could make the argument that the staff should have made Crowl a top priority.



So in the end, I think Tyrell Terry would have been a good addition that we maybe could have reasonably gotten, but he plays the same position as Marcus Carr, which likely would have limited his contributions, unless he was going to start alongside Carr ahead of Willis or Kalscheur. Dawson Garcia would have been a big win, bigger than we've had in quite some time, so it hurts that we didn't get him since it seemed like it might happen, but I also don't think it's a show of utter incompetence either. It seemed like Carlson was just never interested in us for some reason, and you could maybe argue the staff ideally should have never bothered with Gabe Madsen and gone hard after Walton the whole time. I guess from my own perception, I don't see our in-state recruiting as the unending sequence of colossal, bone-head mistakes that some others view it as.
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I think the main issue with the Minnesota recruits, and the way I feel about it, is that we aren't winning, and Minnesota kids are having MAJOR success at these other schools they're going to. There will always be an excuse for why we didn't get a certain kid(s) but at some point you have to just be able to get those kids. Or else we're just conceding to being at or below average and being ok with it.

So looking at Dainja, Carlson, and Garcia. Fine, Dainja is ineligible. Then get Garcia or Carlson! Also if you look at our '19 class, give me Robert Jones over Sam Freeman. Why can't that be done. The problem was Pitino missed on all these guys early in the process and had to resort back to Freeman. Just not good.
 
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Go Gophs said:
IMO, college basketball in the NCAA at the D1 level is on the verge of total collapse. EVERYONE out there knows it is rife with cheating. So now players, etc are pushing no college in order to go the NBA, anyone can transfer without sitting out, etc. They did it to themselves. NCAA basketball is going down the road to not being relevant in the near future and it is IMO because they have let all of this slide as long as it was being done by their "hand picked" blue bloods.
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The transfer without having to sit out is the result of revenue athletes (basketball, football, hockey, baseball) not being able to transfer while non-revenue ones can and don't have to sit out a year. The NCAA strangelhold over athletes is crumbling and changing; better to make the change voluntarily rather than get sued again and lose as they did with using athletes likeness without compensation, Ed O'Bannon was a primary complaint in that case.

Also don't how you can make the assumption that most kids are basically being paid and not going to classes taking their studies seriously - that sells them short and I find it offensive to makesuch a general supposition.

Some schools/ coaches cheat, many more don't in my opinion, just Iike in life. To think Stanford has to pay basketball players to come to that school - one of the most reknown in the world - seems patently absurd.

I do agree that the NCAA has blood on its hands for not punishing those who should be punished.

Writing papers for athletes has been going on forever; my buddy's girl did it for someone on Holtz team in the 80s. Clem's "mistake" was he centralized it and thus took away any type of plausible deniability and in essence created systematic cheating.
 

Cayman said:
That's kinda where I'm at. It seems like the complaints about in-state recruiting are often very surface-level, just kinda like "there's good players in Minnesota, and we just gotta have 'em!" with little regard for position or fit, which players left our roster at what time, what part of the recruiting cycle did certain positions become a need, or who else is recruiting them, what sort of other opportunities these recruits have access to.

My personal assessment:

2019:

Matthew Hurt: 5 star, went to a more successful program, wouldn't expect us to get him

Zeke Nnaji: top 40 player, went to a more successful program led by one of the best recruiters in the country, led his team in scoring, got to be the premier big man on his team, leaving for the NBA after one season

Tyrell Terry: 4 star point guard, went to one of the most reputable academic institutions in the country, second on his team in scoring, second in minutes at over 32 mpg as a freshman, seems to have had a really good season in all honesty. At the time of his commitment in June 2018, Minnesota had Isaiah Washington on the roster as our projected point guard of the future, as well as Marcus Carr waiting in the wings as he sat out for his transfer red shirt year. Terry would not have gotten 30+ mpg at point guard on this year's Minnesota team.

Tyler Wahl: From looking at stats, seems kind of similar to Isaiah Ihnen but slightly worse. Wahl averages more steals and assists per 40 minutes, Ihnen averages more points and rebounds, shoots a higher percentage, and commits fewer fouls and turnovers.

David Roddy also had a better season than I would have expected. 11.4 points and 5.6 rebounds in 25 minutes a game. Seems pretty good for what I understood to be basically a power forward in a shooting guard's body, but it looks like Colorado State only has 2 players over 6'6", so maybe you can make that work in the Mountain West. He seemed like a bit of a reach for us at the time, and I'm pretty okay with not getting him.

2020:

Jalen Suggs: 5 star, went to a more successful program, similar story to Matthew Hurt or most of the other 5 star recruits who leave the state, granted Gonzaga doesn't have the recruiting clout of Duke. Unsurprised that we didn't get him.

Dawson Garcia: top 30 player, borderline 5 star, would have been the biggest recruiting victory in a decade if we made it happen. This one I'm a little more torn on, since he took an official visit here and it kinda felt like we had a shot, and that fellow finalists Marquette and Indiana seemed like relatively beatable opponents on the recruiting trail compared to North Carolina, Arizona, Kansas, Duke etc. Depending on your perspective, you give the staff credit for getting us a fighting chance at landing the big fish, or you say close doesn't count for anything and the staff screwed up a big time recruiting opportunity for our program.

Dain Dainja: Right around top 50, same area where Amir Coffey ended up a few years ago. Heard we and other schools backed off due to academic concerns.

Ben Carlson: I don't really know what the deal with his recruitment was. It seemed like, for some reason, we were never considered a serious player in it for some reason or another, and for the longest time it was between Xavier and Stanford. After Stanford got a commitment from Max Murrell, coincidentally one of Minnesota's out of state big man targets from Nebraska, it seemed like it would probably be Xavier. I believe Ben Johnson set up a visit, but then maybe Steven Crowl got in his ear convinced him to join up at Wisconsin instead. His commitment to Wisconsin came fairly out of left field. Idk if our staff didn't establish a good relationship with him, or he just really wanted to leave the state for college.

Kerwin Walton: Might be the highest ranked high school senior still available, with offers from better programs. 247 also says Rob Jeter was his main recruiter, so idk if our ship is just sunk right there. Interestingly, there is also not a single crystal ball prediction for him. I assume all of our staff has some degree of relationship with him. I think last summer I heard the staff was maybe prioritizing Gabe Madsen ahead of Walton, which might have been a mistake. I thought Walton attended 2 or 3 of our home games back in January or February. I hope we get him, but I also get the feeling he's not gonna be a game changer as a freshman or anything.

Gabe Madsen: Seemed like we wouldn't get him unless we offered his brother, who did not appear to be a high major player. I'm okay that we chose not to effectively use up two scholarships to get one 3 star player.

Steven Crowl: I wasn't really sure if the staff badly wanted him or not. Martice Mitchell is a higher rated prospect at a similar position. I got the feeling Mitchell is not a low post banger, and 247 lists Crowl as a center and Mitchell as a PF. Depending on your opinion on roster need, particularly if you think Ihnen has the 4 spot covered and Freeman won't amount to anything, you could make the argument that the staff should have made Crowl a top priority.



So in the end, I think Tyrell Terry would have been a good addition that we maybe could have reasonably gotten, but he plays the same position as Marcus Carr, which likely would have limited his contributions, unless he was going to start alongside Carr ahead of Willis or Kalscheur. Dawson Garcia would have been a big win, bigger than we've had in quite some time, so it hurts that we didn't get him since it seemed like it might happen, but I also don't think it's a show of utter incompetence either. It seemed like Carlson was just never interested in us for some reason, and you could maybe argue the staff ideally should have never bothered with Gabe Madsen and gone hard after Walton the whole time. I guess from my own perception, I don't see our in-state recruiting as the unending sequence of colossal, bone-head mistakes that some others view it as.
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Excuses, rationalizations, and apologies.
 

skiumah1 said:
I think the main issue with the Minnesota recruits, and the way I feel about it, is that we aren't winning, and Minnesota kids are having MAJOR success at these other schools they're going to. There will always be an excuse for why we didn't get a certain kid(s) but at some point you have to just be able to get those kids. Or else we're just conceding to being at or below average and being ok with it.

So looking at Dainja, Carlson, and Garcia. Fine, Dainja is ineligible. Then get Garcia or Carlson! Also if you look at our '19 class, give me Robert Jones over Sam Freeman. Why can't that be done. The problem was Pitino missed on all these guys early in the process and had to resort back to Freeman. Just not good.
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I get it and would love for local kids to stay here, but I’m just saying that isn’t the easiest path anymore to getting out of the bottom half of the big ten. We need a culture and identity kids see and know. We need to continue putting kids in the NBA and we need to develop relationships earlier (something RJ says we have been doing). We need to evaluate guys better and find diamonds in the rough. That means you take a Freeman over a Jones. It means we should’ve been on Roddy or Jameson Battle earlier If you want local kids. Fact is we have about the same percentage of MN guys on our roster that a Wisconsin or Iowa has WI or IA guys. It’s the missing on recruits in general like an IW that are hurting us. Not that we didn’t get MN kids who truthfully don’t want to be here anyways
 


Cayman said:
That's kinda where I'm at. It seems like the complaints about in-state recruiting are often very surface-level, just kinda like "there's good players in Minnesota, and we just gotta have 'em!" with little regard for position or fit, which players left our roster at what time, what part of the recruiting cycle did certain positions become a need, or who else is recruiting them, what sort of other opportunities these recruits have access to.

My personal assessment:

2019:

Matthew Hurt: 5 star, went to a more successful program, wouldn't expect us to get him

Zeke Nnaji: top 40 player, went to a more successful program led by one of the best recruiters in the country, led his team in scoring, got to be the premier big man on his team, leaving for the NBA after one season

Tyrell Terry: 4 star point guard, went to one of the most reputable academic institutions in the country, second on his team in scoring, second in minutes at over 32 mpg as a freshman, seems to have had a really good season in all honesty. At the time of his commitment in June 2018, Minnesota had Isaiah Washington on the roster as our projected point guard of the future, as well as Marcus Carr waiting in the wings as he sat out for his transfer red shirt year. Terry would not have gotten 30+ mpg at point guard on this year's Minnesota team.

Tyler Wahl: From looking at stats, seems kind of similar to Isaiah Ihnen but slightly worse. Wahl averages more steals and assists per 40 minutes, Ihnen averages more points and rebounds, shoots a higher percentage, and commits fewer fouls and turnovers.

David Roddy also had a better season than I would have expected. 11.4 points and 5.6 rebounds in 25 minutes a game. Seems pretty good for what I understood to be basically a power forward in a shooting guard's body, but it looks like Colorado State only has 2 players over 6'6", so maybe you can make that work in the Mountain West. He seemed like a bit of a reach for us at the time, and I'm pretty okay with not getting him.

2020:

Jalen Suggs: 5 star, went to a more successful program, similar story to Matthew Hurt or most of the other 5 star recruits who leave the state, granted Gonzaga doesn't have the recruiting clout of Duke. Unsurprised that we didn't get him.

Dawson Garcia: top 30 player, borderline 5 star, would have been the biggest recruiting victory in a decade if we made it happen. This one I'm a little more torn on, since he took an official visit here and it kinda felt like we had a shot, and that fellow finalists Marquette and Indiana seemed like relatively beatable opponents on the recruiting trail compared to North Carolina, Arizona, Kansas, Duke etc. Depending on your perspective, you give the staff credit for getting us a fighting chance at landing the big fish, or you say close doesn't count for anything and the staff screwed up a big time recruiting opportunity for our program.

Dain Dainja: Right around top 50, same area where Amir Coffey ended up a few years ago. Heard we and other schools backed off due to academic concerns.

Ben Carlson: I don't really know what the deal with his recruitment was. It seemed like, for some reason, we were never considered a serious player in it for some reason or another, and for the longest time it was between Xavier and Stanford. After Stanford got a commitment from Max Murrell, coincidentally one of Minnesota's out of state big man targets from Nebraska, it seemed like it would probably be Xavier. I believe Ben Johnson set up a visit, but then maybe Steven Crowl got in his ear convinced him to join up at Wisconsin instead. His commitment to Wisconsin came fairly out of left field. Idk if our staff didn't establish a good relationship with him, or he just really wanted to leave the state for college.

Kerwin Walton: Might be the highest ranked high school senior still available, with offers from better programs. 247 also says Rob Jeter was his main recruiter, so idk if our ship is just sunk right there. Interestingly, there is also not a single crystal ball prediction for him. I assume all of our staff has some degree of relationship with him. I think last summer I heard the staff was maybe prioritizing Gabe Madsen ahead of Walton, which might have been a mistake. I thought Walton attended 2 or 3 of our home games back in January or February. I hope we get him, but I also get the feeling he's not gonna be a game changer as a freshman or anything.

Gabe Madsen: Seemed like we wouldn't get him unless we offered his brother, who did not appear to be a high major player. I'm okay that we chose not to effectively use up two scholarships to get one 3 star player.

Steven Crowl: I wasn't really sure if the staff badly wanted him or not. Martice Mitchell is a higher rated prospect at a similar position. I got the feeling Mitchell is not a low post banger, and 247 lists Crowl as a center and Mitchell as a PF. Depending on your opinion on roster need, particularly if you think Ihnen has the 4 spot covered and Freeman won't amount to anything, you could make the argument that the staff should have made Crowl a top priority.



So in the end, I think Tyrell Terry would have been a good addition that we maybe could have reasonably gotten, but he plays the same position as Marcus Carr, which likely would have limited his contributions, unless he was going to start alongside Carr ahead of Willis or Kalscheur. Dawson Garcia would have been a big win, bigger than we've had in quite some time, so it hurts that we didn't get him since it seemed like it might happen, but I also don't think it's a show of utter incompetence either. It seemed like Carlson was just never interested in us for some reason, and you could maybe argue the staff ideally should have never bothered with Gabe Madsen and gone hard after Walton the whole time. I guess from my own perception, I don't see our in-state recruiting as the unending sequence of colossal, bone-head mistakes that some others view it as.
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Strong post. Several have felt that Pitino is not a very good coach.
 

skiumah1 said:
I think the main issue with the Minnesota recruits, and the way I feel about it, is that we aren't winning, and Minnesota kids are having MAJOR success at these other schools they're going to. There will always be an excuse for why we didn't get a certain kid(s) but at some point you have to just be able to get those kids. Or else we're just conceding to being at or below average and being ok with it.

So looking at Dainja, Carlson, and Garcia. Fine, Dainja is ineligible. Then get Garcia or Carlson! Also if you look at our '19 class, give me Robert Jones over Sam Freeman. Why can't that be done. The problem was Pitino missed on all these guys early in the process and had to resort back to Freeman. Just not good.
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I will take Freeman over Jones. Jones plays for DENVER, who we would have beaten by 30. How many minutes per game would he have played behind Oturu? Not many.
 



bga1 said:
I will take Freeman over Jones. Jones plays for DENVER, who we would have beaten by 30. How many minutes per game would he have played behind Oturu? Not many.
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I just looked at Jones' recent game logs and the way he finished the season...

Highly doubt Freeman would've had the same impact at Denver as a freshman.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
I just looked at Jones' recent game logs and the way he finished the season...

Highly doubt Freeman would've had the same impact at Denver as a freshman.
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Different league totally. There is no way to know and I would think we would give the kid who came here the benefit of the doubt. Freeman is going to be pretty good. Watch and see. He catches and he's physical. One board every three minutes in time he played (not much). Jones averaged 1 board per 5 minutes at Denver...where it just might be easier to get rebounds. Denver was not good and they are not in a tough league.
 

Just Gopher It!! said:
Do they also think he is not a very good recruiter as well?my understanding is that they are 2 distinct skill sets.
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He has recruited and landed kids that others would have won a great deal more with. Other kids that he recruited tirelessly were convinced he was a lousy coach, they see how aimlessly we have played for years, they see the record. Several great coaches miss their 1st targets but get guys they still win with. They win year after year after year without cheating, making excuses, cutting corners, paying players.
 

bga1 said:
Different league totally. There is no way to know and I would think we would give the kid who came here the benefit of the doubt. Freeman is going to be pretty good. Watch and see. He catches and he's physical. One board every three minutes in time he played (not much). Jones averaged 1 board per 5 minutes at Denver...where it just might be easier to get rebounds. Denver was not good and they are not in a tough league.
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Yea, I'm not doubting that Freeman could be a decent contributor for us given time and patience. He's certainly less raw and seems to have more athletic tools than Konate did, for a recent example.
 

Go Gophs said:
Well look what happens even when they get caught? UNC doesn't even lose a thing for players flat out not going to college. Kansas is basically caught red handed paying players yet they don't do a thing to them. It's dumb, but it's the way it is. That is why the U of M was THE dumbest athletic program of all time when they skewered Clem Haskins years ago. This program has still not recovered from that. Had that happened at Duke, they would have stuck up for him, denied it and told the NCAA to pound sand they aren't gonna fire him.
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Nailed it.

Stab YOURSELF in the back. Multiple times. Because at MN we are SUPERIOR in ethics and morals.
 

manderson1984 said:
We need a culture and identity kids see and know.
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Totally agree on this. The coach needs to establish this right away and stick to it. Pitino totally lacking this. I feel like this is part of knowing yourself as a coach as well. Pitino showing big-time inexperience there.
 
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Cayman said:
That's kinda where I'm at. It seems like the complaints about in-state recruiting are often very surface-level, just kinda like "there's good players in Minnesota, and we just gotta have 'em!" with little regard for position or fit, which players left our roster at what time, what part of the recruiting cycle did certain positions become a need, or who else is recruiting them, what sort of other opportunities these recruits have access to.

My personal assessment:

2019:

Matthew Hurt: 5 star, went to a more successful program, wouldn't expect us to get him

Zeke Nnaji: top 40 player, went to a more successful program led by one of the best recruiters in the country, led his team in scoring, got to be the premier big man on his team, leaving for the NBA after one season

Tyrell Terry: 4 star point guard, went to one of the most reputable academic institutions in the country, second on his team in scoring, second in minutes at over 32 mpg as a freshman, seems to have had a really good season in all honesty. At the time of his commitment in June 2018, Minnesota had Isaiah Washington on the roster as our projected point guard of the future, as well as Marcus Carr waiting in the wings as he sat out for his transfer red shirt year. Terry would not have gotten 30+ mpg at point guard on this year's Minnesota team.

Tyler Wahl: From looking at stats, seems kind of similar to Isaiah Ihnen but slightly worse. Wahl averages more steals and assists per 40 minutes, Ihnen averages more points and rebounds, shoots a higher percentage, and commits fewer fouls and turnovers.

David Roddy also had a better season than I would have expected. 11.4 points and 5.6 rebounds in 25 minutes a game. Seems pretty good for what I understood to be basically a power forward in a shooting guard's body, but it looks like Colorado State only has 2 players over 6'6", so maybe you can make that work in the Mountain West. He seemed like a bit of a reach for us at the time, and I'm pretty okay with not getting him.

2020:

Jalen Suggs: 5 star, went to a more successful program, similar story to Matthew Hurt or most of the other 5 star recruits who leave the state, granted Gonzaga doesn't have the recruiting clout of Duke. Unsurprised that we didn't get him.

Dawson Garcia: top 30 player, borderline 5 star, would have been the biggest recruiting victory in a decade if we made it happen. This one I'm a little more torn on, since he took an official visit here and it kinda felt like we had a shot, and that fellow finalists Marquette and Indiana seemed like relatively beatable opponents on the recruiting trail compared to North Carolina, Arizona, Kansas, Duke etc. Depending on your perspective, you give the staff credit for getting us a fighting chance at landing the big fish, or you say close doesn't count for anything and the staff screwed up a big time recruiting opportunity for our program.

Dain Dainja: Right around top 50, same area where Amir Coffey ended up a few years ago. Heard we and other schools backed off due to academic concerns.

Ben Carlson: I don't really know what the deal with his recruitment was. It seemed like, for some reason, we were never considered a serious player in it for some reason or another, and for the longest time it was between Xavier and Stanford. After Stanford got a commitment from Max Murrell, coincidentally one of Minnesota's out of state big man targets from Nebraska, it seemed like it would probably be Xavier. I believe Ben Johnson set up a visit, but then maybe Steven Crowl got in his ear convinced him to join up at Wisconsin instead. His commitment to Wisconsin came fairly out of left field. Idk if our staff didn't establish a good relationship with him, or he just really wanted to leave the state for college.

Kerwin Walton: Might be the highest ranked high school senior still available, with offers from better programs. 247 also says Rob Jeter was his main recruiter, so idk if our ship is just sunk right there. Interestingly, there is also not a single crystal ball prediction for him. I assume all of our staff has some degree of relationship with him. I think last summer I heard the staff was maybe prioritizing Gabe Madsen ahead of Walton, which might have been a mistake. I thought Walton attended 2 or 3 of our home games back in January or February. I hope we get him, but I also get the feeling he's not gonna be a game changer as a freshman or anything.

Gabe Madsen: Seemed like we wouldn't get him unless we offered his brother, who did not appear to be a high major player. I'm okay that we chose not to effectively use up two scholarships to get one 3 star player.

Steven Crowl: I wasn't really sure if the staff badly wanted him or not. Martice Mitchell is a higher rated prospect at a similar position. I got the feeling Mitchell is not a low post banger, and 247 lists Crowl as a center and Mitchell as a PF. Depending on your opinion on roster need, particularly if you think Ihnen has the 4 spot covered and Freeman won't amount to anything, you could make the argument that the staff should have made Crowl a top priority.



So in the end, I think Tyrell Terry would have been a good addition that we maybe could have reasonably gotten, but he plays the same position as Marcus Carr, which likely would have limited his contributions, unless he was going to start alongside Carr ahead of Willis or Kalscheur. Dawson Garcia would have been a big win, bigger than we've had in quite some time, so it hurts that we didn't get him since it seemed like it might happen, but I also don't think it's a show of utter incompetence either. It seemed like Carlson was just never interested in us for some reason, and you could maybe argue the staff ideally should have never bothered with Gabe Madsen and gone hard after Walton the whole time. I guess from my own perception, I don't see our in-state recruiting as the unending sequence of colossal, bone-head mistakes that some others view it as.
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It is unfortunate that the staff backed off Steven Crowl. He was offered, tried to accept, but the coaches wanted to see if they could get Garcia first. If the coaches could go back in a time machine, I'm sure they would have preferred Steven in Gopher uniform vs. trying to get a 1 yr. transfer.
 

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