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  1. #661
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    May 2019
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  2. #662

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    Is this the best in-state class in MN history?

  3. #663

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaykay View Post
    Is this the best in-state class in MN history?
    Its gotta be!! Crazy! In all honestly I would be happy with any 1 of these top guys! But lets get 3 of these big dawgs!

  4. #664

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaykay View Post
    Is this the best in-state class in MN history?
    Probably in depth, but wasn't the year with Tyus Jones and Rashad Vaughan a little better at the top? I was thinking Trent was in that group as well but I am sure I am wrong on that now. I thought there was a third who was really high. Reid Travis? Are guys who transfer to prep schools considered part of the MN class?

    This is a great group, and one that could launch the program on the court and hopefully with elite MN recruits if it goes well.

  5. #665

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    This class is deep with at least two NBA type players. Probably the best of all time.

  6. #666

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Man View Post
    Probably in depth, but wasn't the year with Tyus Jones and Rashad Vaughan a little better at the top? I was thinking Trent was in that group as well but I am sure I am wrong on that now. I thought there was a third who was really high. Reid Travis? Are guys who transfer to prep schools considered part of the MN class?

    This is a great group, and one that could launch the program on the court and hopefully with elite MN recruits if it goes well.
    Travis was the third. You could make the argument that class's top three was better than this top three (if you can decide who the third is beyond Suggs and Garcia), but I think this has to be best top to bottom.

  7. #667

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaykay View Post
    Travis was the third. You could make the argument that class's top three was better than this top three (if you can decide who the third is beyond Suggs and Garcia), but I think this has to be best top to bottom.
    That class also had JP Macura who turned out to be a high level player and has appeared in the NBA.

    2009 would also be in the conversation with Royce White, Rodney Williams, Sam Dower, Mike Bruesewitz, and also Mike Muscala who has had a decent professional career. The others were definitely solid college players though.


    Overall this years class has the best depth but a few others have rivaled the top end talent.


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  8. #668

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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherND725 View Post
    That class also had JP Macura who turned out to be a high level player and has appeared in the NBA.

    2009 would also be in the conversation with Royce White, Rodney Williams, Sam Dower, Mike Bruesewitz, and also Mike Muscala who has had a decent professional career. The others were definitely solid college players though.


    Overall this years class has the best depth but a few others have rivaled the top end talent.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Was Nate Wolters 2009 too?


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  9. #669

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    Quote Originally Posted by bc2211 View Post
    Was Nate Wolters 2009 too?


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    Good catch yes Nate Wolters was a 2009 grad and definitely helps make a case for that class. I was looking at 247 sports class rankings and he wasn't listed so that's why I missed him. They have state rankings dating back to 2003 I believe.

    https://247sports.com/Season/2009-Ba...chool&State=MN


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  10. #670

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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherND725 View Post
    Good catch yes Nate Wolters was a 2009 grad and definitely helps make a case for that class. I was looking at 247 sports class rankings and he wasn't listed so that's why I missed him. They have state rankings dating back to 2003 I believe.

    https://247sports.com/Season/2009-Ba...chool&State=MN


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    Yeah... those get tricky with prep school transfers now. Vaughn’s not listed as a MN recruit for 2014. Kyle Washington is CT, etc.


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  11. #671
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
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    7,061

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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherND725 View Post
    That class also had JP Macura who turned out to be a high level player and has appeared in the NBA.

    2009 would also be in the conversation with Royce White, Rodney Williams, Sam Dower, Mike Bruesewitz, and also Mike Muscala who has had a decent professional career. The others were definitely solid college players though.


    Overall this years class has the best depth but a few others have rivaled the top end talent.


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    Wasn't Walters in the 09 class as well?

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  12. #672

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    So this weekend with all the official and unofficial visits and recruits attending the football game, should we hear at least one verbal commitment?

  13. #673

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    This is going to be long and negative, so fair warning.

    With the news today on Ben Carlson scheduling his visits, it sure seem like the writing is on the wall that Pitino has missed out on yet another local recruit. Carlson is going to unofficially visit the "U" with a bunch of his D1 Minnesota teammates for the football game and then officially visit Wisconsin for 2 days that same weekend. He also has officials set up to Xavier and Stanford and an unofficial to Iowa State. This will be the 4th top 100 recruit in the past two classes from the state that will go elsewhere without even officially visiting Minnesota. If Jalen Suggs to Gonzaga happens, that will be number 5 and the 4th to leave for a non Blue Blood (Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, Duke, etc).

    Now, Ben Carlson will be officially visiting Wisconsin and Pitino previously lost Nate Reuvers to Wisconsin. Who was the last Wisconsin kid with a Wisconsin offer to officially visit Minnesota? I honestly cannot remember a single player that fit that criteria. Pitino previously lost Theo John to Marquette. Who was the last Wisconsin kid with a Marquette offer to officially visit Minnesota? I thought you had to go all the way back to Wally Ellenson to find a player that fit that bill, but neither Rivals nor 247 shows a Marquette offer for Wally out of high school. So there might not be a Wisconsin player with a Wisconsin or a Marquette offer that has even officially visited Minnesota, much less committed to the Gophers, in over a decade and certainly never in the Pitino era. If you want to throw in the weird "offers" to Brad Davison and Tyler Wahl that Pitino made after he was sure they would go to Wisconsin this even looks worse. And what exactly was the point of those offers? Are you thinking that helps your relationship with Pulley or D1 to say you offered these kids? It devalues a Minnesota offer and allows the press to pile on you for even more "misses" than you've already had.

    Steven Crowl has also scheduled official visits to Wisconsin and Iowa and is "considering an official" to Minnesota per Ryan James. I have heard conflicting reports on whether Crowl is a take for Minnesota, so this isn't really about Crowl. How many Minnesota kids have officially visited Iowa or Iowa State in the past few years? We've never actually lost a Minnesota kid with a Minnesota offer to either program, but Vaughn and Joe Coleman visited Iowa State, Crowl is visiting Iowa, and Iowa State might be getting a visit from Kerwin Walton. Who was the last Iowa kid with an Iowa or Iowa State offer to officially visit Minnesota? I don't think there has ever been one. Tubby was on the very outer edge of the Harrison Barnes recruitment. Pitino had AJ Green up for a game or two, but he was always going to play for UNI where his dad is an assistant coach and never took an official.

    My point here is that you absolutely cannot lose recruiting battles to these schools for Minnesota kids if you don't ever return the favor and take kids they wanted out of their own backyard.

    The one kid this staff was in really early on was Kerwin Walton. He's set up a visit to Arizona and is looking to set up a visit to Miami. For a year or more, Kerwin just had two high major offers in Minnesota and Purdue. There was a nice window to lock up a kid early that you believed in that was under the radar nationally. Either the staff was slow playing him and didn't really want a commitment at that time or they couldn't close the deal. Hopefully they still get Walton, but this is the type of recruitment you hope you have wrapped up before he breaks out this Spring given when you offered. This could still work out like Gabe who had the Minnesota offer and not much else forever and finally pulled the trigger, but Gabe never really broke out like Kerwin did.

    If we review the current staff, there is not a lot of reason for optimism. When Rob Jeter was hired he was supposed to help in the Midwest and was specifically supposed to have some strong ties to the Phenom Hoops program out of Wisconsin that is currently loaded. So far, there hasn't been word of any real interest from any players off that roster. Kyle Lindsted had the strongest ties possible to Sunrise Christian and lost kids to Vanderbilt, Missouri, and Wichita State and didn't even get a visit from the best kids out of that program like Malik Hall. Before this past Fall/Winter, we had never even received a visit from an Ed Conroy recruit in the entire time he was on staff. There were literally so many swings and misses on officials during this time that he might have had one or two by now as I think Kobe Brown was a Conroy recruit. Regardless, he's been non-factor on the recruiting trail since his hire which is fine if you have a big time recruiter or two on staff which nobody in this group has shown to be yet.

    If you can win while recruiting this poorly this wouldn't bother me that much, but it's now 5 of 6 seasons we've had a losing record in the B1G under Pitino. His best players have consistently been his higher rated recruits. Amir Coffey was a consensus top 100 kid and Jordan Murphy was like 116 on Rivals when they were the industry leader by a wide margin. Daniel Oturu was a consensus top 100 recruit. In his entire tenure, the only clear hit on a lightly recruited kid was Gabe Kalscheur. If you look at kids outside the consensus top 200 per 247 it's a laundry list of kids who you simply cannot win with from Gaston Diedhiou and Ahmad Gilbert to Josh Martin and Jamir Harris. Even Michael Hurt ended up outside the top 200 (I seem to remember him being ranked higher so they might be doing some Chad Ford esque revising on 247), so this has been an amazingly consistent theme for Minnesota. The best result Pitino has gotten from a player outside the top 200 is one or two years of adequate backup center play from Bakary Konate (I am obviously being very generous here) while taking up a scholarship for four years.

    Something has to change, because the status quo isn't working.

  14. #674

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    Mad before anything even happens. YIKES.

  15. #675

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    Quote Originally Posted by EG#9 View Post
    This is going to be long and negative, so fair warning.

    With the news today on Ben Carlson scheduling his visits, it sure seem like the writing is on the wall that Pitino has missed out on yet another local recruit. Carlson is going to unofficially visit the "U" with a bunch of his D1 Minnesota teammates for the football game and then officially visit Wisconsin for 2 days that same weekend. He also has officials set up to Xavier and Stanford and an unofficial to Iowa State. This will be the 4th top 100 recruit in the past two classes from the state that will go elsewhere without even officially visiting Minnesota. If Jalen Suggs to Gonzaga happens, that will be number 5 and the 4th to leave for a non Blue Blood (Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, Duke, etc).

    Now, Ben Carlson will be officially visiting Wisconsin and Pitino previously lost Nate Reuvers to Wisconsin. Who was the last Wisconsin kid with a Wisconsin offer to officially visit Minnesota? I honestly cannot remember a single player that fit that criteria. Pitino previously lost Theo John to Marquette. Who was the last Wisconsin kid with a Marquette offer to officially visit Minnesota? I thought you had to go all the way back to Wally Ellenson to find a player that fit that bill, but neither Rivals nor 247 shows a Marquette offer for Wally out of high school. So there might not be a Wisconsin player with a Wisconsin or a Marquette offer that has even officially visited Minnesota, much less committed to the Gophers, in over a decade and certainly never in the Pitino era. If you want to throw in the weird "offers" to Brad Davison and Tyler Wahl that Pitino made after he was sure they would go to Wisconsin this even looks worse. And what exactly was the point of those offers? Are you thinking that helps your relationship with Pulley or D1 to say you offered these kids? It devalues a Minnesota offer and allows the press to pile on you for even more "misses" than you've already had.

    Steven Crowl has also scheduled official visits to Wisconsin and Iowa and is "considering an official" to Minnesota per Ryan James. I have heard conflicting reports on whether Crowl is a take for Minnesota, so this isn't really about Crowl. How many Minnesota kids have officially visited Iowa or Iowa State in the past few years? We've never actually lost a Minnesota kid with a Minnesota offer to either program, but Vaughn and Joe Coleman visited Iowa State, Crowl is visiting Iowa, and Iowa State might be getting a visit from Kerwin Walton. Who was the last Iowa kid with an Iowa or Iowa State offer to officially visit Minnesota? I don't think there has ever been one. Tubby was on the very outer edge of the Harrison Barnes recruitment. Pitino had AJ Green up for a game or two, but he was always going to play for UNI where his dad is an assistant coach and never took an official.

    My point here is that you absolutely cannot lose recruiting battles to these schools for Minnesota kids if you don't ever return the favor and take kids they wanted out of their own backyard.

    The one kid this staff was in really early on was Kerwin Walton. He's set up a visit to Arizona and is looking to set up a visit to Miami. For a year or more, Kerwin just had two high major offers in Minnesota and Purdue. There was a nice window to lock up a kid early that you believed in that was under the radar nationally. Either the staff was slow playing him and didn't really want a commitment at that time or they couldn't close the deal. Hopefully they still get Walton, but this is the type of recruitment you hope you have wrapped up before he breaks out this Spring given when you offered. This could still work out like Gabe who had the Minnesota offer and not much else forever and finally pulled the trigger, but Gabe never really broke out like Kerwin did.

    If we review the current staff, there is not a lot of reason for optimism. When Rob Jeter was hired he was supposed to help in the Midwest and was specifically supposed to have some strong ties to the Phenom Hoops program out of Wisconsin that is currently loaded. So far, there hasn't been word of any real interest from any players off that roster. Kyle Lindsted had the strongest ties possible to Sunrise Christian and lost kids to Vanderbilt, Missouri, and Wichita State and didn't even get a visit from the best kids out of that program like Malik Hall. Before this past Fall/Winter, we had never even received a visit from an Ed Conroy recruit in the entire time he was on staff. There were literally so many swings and misses on officials during this time that he might have had one or two by now as I think Kobe Brown was a Conroy recruit. Regardless, he's been non-factor on the recruiting trail since his hire which is fine if you have a big time recruiter or two on staff which nobody in this group has shown to be yet.

    If you can win while recruiting this poorly this wouldn't bother me that much, but it's now 5 of 6 seasons we've had a losing record in the B1G under Pitino. His best players have consistently been his higher rated recruits. Amir Coffey was a consensus top 100 kid and Jordan Murphy was like 116 on Rivals when they were the industry leader by a wide margin. Daniel Oturu was a consensus top 100 recruit. In his entire tenure, the only clear hit on a lightly recruited kid was Gabe Kalscheur. If you look at kids outside the consensus top 200 per 247 it's a laundry list of kids who you simply cannot win with from Gaston Diedhiou and Ahmad Gilbert to Josh Martin and Jamir Harris. Even Michael Hurt ended up outside the top 200 (I seem to remember him being ranked higher so they might be doing some Chad Ford esque revising on 247), so this has been an amazingly consistent theme for Minnesota. The best result Pitino has gotten from a player outside the top 200 is one or two years of adequate backup center play from Bakary Konate (I am obviously being very generous here) while taking up a scholarship for four years.

    Something has to change, because the status quo isn't working.
    What has to change is Pitino needs to get more active in recruiting instead of relying on his assistants. When Gonzaga comes to see Suggs it’s Mark Few. When Duke comes it’s Coach K. You never here about Pitino being at a practice, an open gym, a game. It’s always an assistant. He had to build relationships with local guys. Assistants can only do so much. He missed on players he hardly recruited (M. Wright, Sims, John, Davison), while striking out with outstate players. Not a way to build trust with local players. I have strong feeling Pitino is going to stoke out on every high major in the 2020 class.

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