CBS: It may be time for the Big Ten, SEC to poach the Big 12 again

per CBS:

If you're Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany, or the SEC's Greg Sankey, aren't you wondering if now is the time to become that 16-school superconference we all envisioned being the future five years ago?
Don't you at least pick up the phone and ask?

I don't care what they say publicly, or what they now believe about expansion, you can't tell me that Texas and Oklahoma wouldn't seriously consider leaving for the Big Ten or SEC if the offer was out there.

Hypothetically, the Big Ten could call up Texas, bringing the Longhorns and Kansas Jayhawks into the fold. The conference would be adding one of the biggest brands in college football with the Longhorns, and it would bring in a Kansas basketball program that's one of the best in the country. Adding the massive Texas television market would be a huge coup for the Big Ten Network, and adding the Longhorns to the West would help balance the power in the Big Ten's divisions. Kansas' arrival wouldn't do much for football -- the Texas addition offsets that -- but it could put the Big Ten on par with the ACC as far as basketball is concerned, and the Big Ten cares about basketball.

The SEC could then follow up by going after the Big 12's other cornerstone program: Oklahoma. The Sooners would be yet another strong football program added to the SEC's arsenal, and if you get Oklahoma, you're probably getting Oklahoma State, too, a program that doesn't receive as much attention as it probably should when it comes to football success in recent years.
The SEC, already the strongest football conference in the country, would suddenly be even stronger.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...or-the-big-ten-sec-to-poach-the-big-12-again/

Go Gophers!!

"and if you get Oklahoma, you're probably getting Oklahoma State, too"

The Oklahoma folks might like that but TV eyeballs wise that's not a great deal to overlap like that ...

If we did that, would we lose another Non-Conference game or go back to 2 cross over games?

More importantly, could we lose Iowa

Taji34 said:

If we did that, would we lose another Non-Conference game or go back to 2 cross over games?

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I gotta think it would be 2 crossovers.

I will be surprised if the Big 12 makes it to expansion. If I'm Texas I join the Big Ten or SEC and avoid playing Cincinnati, South Florida, Memphis etc.

Unless the Longhorn Network is a bust of which I do not know TX does not need to join any other conference.
It was TX and their network that frightened NE into the BIG.
And to this day some NE fans think they were demeaned by joining the BIG.

olddoc said:

Unless the Longhorn Network is a bust of which I do not know TX does not need to join any other conference.
It was TX and their network that frightened NE into the BIG.
And to this day some NE fans think they were demeaned by joining the BIG.

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Longhorn Network is a bust and awful for the Big 12 as a whole. It was a mistake.

olddoc said:

Unless the Longhorn Network is a bust of which I do not know TX does not need to join any other conference.
It was TX and their network that frightened NE into the BIG.
And to this day some NE fans think they were demeaned by joining the BIG.

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LHN was reported a huge loser for ESPN. Great for Texas money wise.

But Texas won't get that kind of deal again, at that point Texas will have to make their move, either consolidate TV deals with the Big XII, or move on.

olddoc said:

Unless the Longhorn Network is a bust of which I do not know TX does not need to join any other conference.
It was TX and their network that frightened NE into the BIG.
And to this day some NE fans think they were demeaned by joining the BIG.

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It is a bust and going independent would be a mistake for anyone who wants to be invited to the CFP. Just ask BYU. Nebraska leaving the Big XII had nothing to do with being frightened of the LHN. I am not sure why any Husker fan would feel demeaned by joining the wealthiest and most popular conference in the nation. They certainly miss the rivalries with their old Big 8 members, but the Big XII was hardly a loving home to them. You have to be one of the most misinformed badger fans out there.

If Big Ten expansion is bound to happen, I’d rather the conference be proactive in it & go after who the conference would like rather than possibly be left to pick from the rest. Looks like ACC teams are out of reach now with their GOR deal, so poaching the Big XII seems like the best course of action.

I like the idea of going after Texas & Kansas the most (OU & OSU picked up by SEC), like the article says. Texas will not be down for ever & gives an instant football power to the West. KU’s football resume doesn’t need to be hashed over, but they would be an instant jolt to basketball, which the BTN cares about, creating instant inventory. Put these 2 in the west, send Purdue over to the east (IU-PU now together), no need for protected crossovers. I can live with a MN-WI-IA-NE-NW-IL-UT-KU division in terms of teams I want to play and competition level. Go to 10 conference games so we see the other division 3 times, therefore nearly every student-athlete sees every conference school a few times, minus the 1 they’d miss due to rotation.

Just think this is the best way to go about it, considering the current state of the game.

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:

LHN was reported a huge loser for ESPN. Great for Texas money wise.

But Texas won't get that kind of deal again, at that point Texas will have to make their move, either consolidate TV deals with the Big XII, or move on.

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It's 20 years at a little less than $15M/year. Not great $$ by today's standards. They'd probably make the same in the B1G even though they wouldn't be getting a full share for maybe 6 years. Bet ESPN would pay them to get out of the contract too. Basketball has been good the last 10 years as well. Fits well academically with B1G.

Let's keep 'powers' out of West please - won't help us at all. I don't care about the overall health/wealth of the Big10...I just want to beat our regional equivalents. I really don't want to lose Purdue as an annual opponent...it's nice to have an expected 'W' on the schedule. Overall money paid to the conference doesn't help us at all in comparison to our peers. If I am being completely honest, I would like the Big10 to be weak and give us the best chance to win as many games as possible. I am not one of those fans that EVER expects the Gophers to be nationally relevant.

PMWinSTP said:

It's 20 years at a little less than $15M/year. Not great $$ by today's standards. They'd probably make the same in the B1G even though they wouldn't be getting a full share for maybe 6 years. Bet ESPN would pay them to get out of the contract too. Basketball has been good the last 10 years as well. Fits well academically with B1G.

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If ESPN was able to buy themselves out, I think they already would have done so considering they're in full cost cutting mode as it is. I think ESPN is stuck until Texas asks for out or it ends.

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:

If ESPN was able to buy themselves out, I think they already would have done so considering they're in full cost cutting mode as it is. I think ESPN is stuck until Texas asks for out or it ends.

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Really not ESPN's choice to make, not in the driver's seat, UT is. UT has never had a reason to agree to a buyout, but B1G $$ would be the incentive they might need to float the idea to ESPN.

Without the top 3-4 teams, the big 12 looks like a mid major conference.

Heck, have the B1G grab Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma and Mizzo out of SEC and then that map with have big chuck of the country. Lol....


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GopherHomer said:

Let's keep 'powers' out of West please - won't help us at all. I don't care about the overall health/wealth of the Big10...I just want to beat our regional equivalents. I really don't want to lose Purdue as an annual opponent...it's nice to have an expected 'W' on the schedule. Overall money paid to the conference doesn't help us at all in comparison to our peers. If I am being completely honest, I would like the Big10 to be weak and give us the best chance to win as many games as possible. I am not one of those fans that EVER expects the Gophers to be nationally relevant.

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Seems like your first call, if AD, would be to Bob Bowlsby to see if you can leave the Big Ten for the Big XII.....

alchemy2u said:

Without the top 3-4 teams, the big 12 looks like a mid major conference.

Heck, have the B1G grab Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma and Mizzo out of SEC and then that map with have big chuck of the country. Lol....

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16 is the magic number. I don't see conferences getting any bigger then that. The death of the Big 12 is going to happen. It's just how soon and who get the juicier portions. Texas and Notre Dame are still a possibility. I think Notre Dame is going to have to commit somewhere, and I would expect that to be the ACC. I still think for tv sets, Texas and California would be a great combination, but why any Pac 10/12 team would leave all their local rivalries for the Big Ten is beyond me. But when I dream B16, I dream Texas and USC.

Sparlimb said:

16 is the magic number. I don't see conferences getting any bigger then that. The death of the Big 12 is going to happen. It's just how soon and who get the juicier portions. Texas and Notre Dame are still a possibility. I think Notre Dame is going to have to commit somewhere, and I would expect that to be the ACC. I still think for tv sets, Texas and California would be a great combination, but why any Pac 10/12 team would leave all their local rivalries for the Big Ten is beyond me. But when I dream B16, I dream Texas and USC.

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Agree that any team leaving PAC12 is slim...my dream additions would be Stanford and Irish.

Why wouldn't you take Texas and Oklahoma? They're both good in basketball. And for OU, you'd keep the rivalry with Texas and re-gain it with Nebraska. Far preferable to the SEC.

howeda7 said:

Why wouldn't you take Texas and Oklahoma? They're both good in basketball. And for OU, you'd keep the rivalry with Texas and re-gain it with Nebraska. Far preferable to the SEC.

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Who are you asking?

howeda7 said:

Why wouldn't you take Texas and Oklahoma? They're both good in basketball. And for OU, you'd keep the rivalry with Texas and re-gain it with Nebraska. Far preferable to the SEC.

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Pretty sure Oklahoma won't go anywhere without Okie State

The Lorax said:

Pretty sure Oklahoma won't go anywhere without Okie State

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Oklahoma is great for football and basketball, but not great for tv sets. We're better prying Texas away money-wise, although I'd much prefer Oklahoma for every other reason. They are definitely one of my favorite teams.

I thought Texas was the reason Nebraska left the big 12?

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Interesting article explaining why OU likely wouldn't ever be invited.

http://newsok.com/article/5473247

I wrote about conference realignment last week, and one thing I focused on was the Big Ten’s history of inviting new members only if they are in the American Association of Universities. You can read that post here.

Basically, I said that AAU membership long had been a goal of OU president David Boren, even before conference realignment became all the rage.

I received an email from a college professor who once worked at OU but now is at a university out of state. I met the guy a couple times. He had some really interesting things to say, so I thought I would share them with you. He requested anonymity.

“Just read your article on the Big 12 that mentioned AAU membership. Here's some background that may be useful to you. AAU membership and "Carnegie Classification" are the two best-known indications of elite academic status. There are 62 AAU members and 108 "Carnegie I" universities (all AAU members also are Carnegie I). Here's how the Power 5 conferences compare by those two criteria:

“Big 10: 14 members, 14 Carnegie I, 13 AAU
“PAC 10: 12 members, 12 Carnegie I, 8 AAU
“ACC: 15 members (including Notre Dame), 11 Carnegie I, 5 AAU
“SEC: 14 members, 11 Carnegie I, 4 AAU
“Big 12: 10 members, 4 Carnegie I, 3 AAU.

“The Big 12 is the only Power 5 conference with a majority of non-elite university members, which gives it an academic profile more similar to the various mid-major conferences.
“When Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and Texas A&M left the Big 12, that was an academic loss of 4 Carnegie I and 4 AAU members (although Nebraska subsequently lost its AAU status). In return, the Big 12 added West Virginia and TCU, neither of which is a Carnegie I institution. Of the current Big 12 members, Kansas State, OSU, TCU, West Virginia, Baylor and Texas Tech are unlikely to gain Carnegie I status in the next decade.
“In thinking about new Big 12 schools, Houston, Colorado State, South Florida, Central Florida, New Mexico and Connecticut all are Carnegie I universities. In particular, Colorado State, South Florida, Central Florida and UConn are on growth curves that conceivably could lead to AAU membership at some point.

“In contrast, BYU, SMU, Memphis and Boise State are not Carnegie I and are unlikely to become such.
“OU is unlikely to become an AAU member, as it would have to at least double its current annual research expenditures from nationally competitive grants and currently has no National Academy of Sciences members (most AAU members have at least 10 NAS members and many have significantly more — none has fewer than five NAS members). That kind of change would require at least a decade to accomplish before being considered for AAU (which then has further political barriers to admission).
“Hope this helps.”

It absolutely does help. It tells me several things.
1.The Big 12’s academic standing is worse than I thought. And that’s no small matter. That kind of stuff absolutely matters to decision-makers. The Big 12 went from 58 percent AAU membership to 30 percent AAU membership. I don’t claim to know the legitimacy of academic rankings. But I know they have standing within campuses. The Big 12 is not just the shakiest power conference on the football field. It’s the shakiest power conference in academia.
2.OU’s Big Ten hopes aren’t strong. I don’t see the Big Ten inviting a school that is not an AAU member. If it happens, great. And if the Big Ten were to relax its requirements, it would seem to do so only for Notre Dame.
3.Interesting about the “growth tracks” toward AAU membership. Who knew the Florida schools or Colorado State were held in such high regard. Or Houston U., for that matter.
4.My source didn’t mention Cincinnati. Probably an oversight. But for the record, Cincinnati is a Carnegie I school but is not in the AAU.

I’ll finish with this. Back when Nebraska and Colorado first left the Big 12, and before the moves of Missouri/Texas A&M to the SEC, Maryland/Rutgers to the Big Ten and Pitt/Louisville/Syracuse to the ACC, I chatted with OU athletic director Joe Castiglione, who like everyone else in Oklahoma, was clearly intrigued by the prospect of Louisville. Joe C. also mentioned Pitt. “The University of Pittsburgh is a terrific academic institution.”

OU couldn’t garner enough support for Louisville, so support for Pitt was beside the point.

And in the summer of 2010, when it appeared the Big 12 would fold and OU and OSU would head to a Pac-16, I talked to two people. One was a high-ranking university official. The other was a professor who lives in my neighborhood. Both were excited about the possibility of OU joining the Pac. Ecstatic might be too strong, but only because there was some regret about leaving behind old friends and really the only league the university ever had known. Moving to a league with Stanford, Cal-Berkeley and UCLA thrilled these two men.

Academic standing matters. I’m not saying it’s the paramount consideration in conference realignment. But it matters.

FireDaveLee said:

If Big Ten expansion is bound to happen, I’d rather the conference be proactive in it & go after who the conference would like rather than possibly be left to pick from the rest. Looks like ACC teams are out of reach now with their GOR deal, so poaching the Big XII seems like the best course of action.

I like the idea of going after Texas & Kansas the most (OU & OSU picked up by SEC), like the article says. Texas will not be down for ever & gives an instant football power to the West. KU’s football resume doesn’t need to be hashed over, but they would be an instant jolt to basketball, which the BTN cares about, creating instant inventory. Put these 2 in the west, send Purdue over to the east (IU-PU now together), no need for protected crossovers. I can live with a MN-WI-IA-NE-NW-IL-UT-KU division in terms of teams I want to play and competition level. Go to 10 conference games so we see the other division 3 times, therefore nearly every student-athlete sees every conference school a few times, minus the 1 they’d miss due to rotation.

Just think this is the best way to go about it, considering the current state of the game.

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I will show my age here by my resolve to keep Purdue in the Big Ten West. This conference might not exist were it not for the Chancellor of Purdue University calling a conclave of future Big Ten institutions at the Palmer House in Chicago in 1896. The original seven charter members were Purdue, Northwestern, Illinois, Chicago, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. The hub of the Big Ten or I believe Western Conference as it was then known, radiated like the railroad spurs from Chicago, the railroad capital of the USA in those days. It was, unequivocally, a Midwestern conference and a Yankee conference. Of these seven universities, only 4 stood the test of time and never once flinched and left the conference, for even one season. The four stalwart charter members with contiguous continuous unbroken association are Purdue, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. It is interesting to note that we four are also charter member Morrill Act of 1862 Land Grant Universities. There is a lot of heritage here folks. I like heritage, and I don’t like heritage and tradition trashed. It is only proper and fitting that the four cornerstones of the Big Ten Conference remain welded together, for eternity, in whatever division or reorganization might come about in the name of money, politics, or Mother Nature. Therefore, I reject any proposition that Purdue be moved out of the Big Ten West and into the land of Big Ten East expansion and turncoat team (Michigan). Texas has nothing to with the Midwest. Similarly, Penn State, Maryland, and Rutgers have nothing to do with the Midwest. Had Joe Paterno had his way decades ago, PSU would have been in an all Eastern conference anchored by PSU, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and presumably Rutgers would have been a member also. But Joe could not convince the other Eastern schools to participate, they were probably too fearful of PSU domination, so eventually PSU ended up as our first expansion team since Michigan State. Interestingly enough, Indiana is now the senior Big Ten University (1899) in the Big Ten East in terms of longevity. At least we have a long history with Nebraska, having played them more than most of the Big Ten East schools. As stated previously, The Big Ten’s roots are that of a Midwestern conference, and we are a Yankee conference. That is why in my mind, Maryland does not fit well, and neither Texas nor Kansas fit well either. What is happening is of course all about money and the associated sports betting industry. Like empires, countries, and corporations, we are going through a Merger and Acquisition (M&A) mania cycle. Yet these M&A cycles are like sine waves, and at some point in the future become unstable. Therefore do not be surprised if we see massive divestiture and breakup. Just like General Electric spinning off and selling business units or Dow Chemical and DuPont merging with immediate plans to then break up into smaller independent companies. It could happen. The NCAA could collapse for any number of reasons. When and if the reset button is depressed, I hope that Minnesota remains in a smaller league with Purdue, Illinois, and Wisconsin. Maybe we will see Chicago and Michigan come back. Probably not likely. Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State would probably form the core of an Eastern independent league. Iowa (1899) is a good fit for a smaller Big Ten (West), and Northwestern can be forgiven for bolting for one year. What I yearn for is a Big Ten Conference as it was constituted when I was an undergraduate (1971 – 1975) at Minnesota. The college football seasons are now too long, too many games, too many injuries, and too much encroachment on academics. The Chicago Maroons figured that out before WW II. Musings on a midsummer Saturday morning anxiously awaiting another Golden Gopher Football season to begin.

I personally think the gophers have a hard enough time winning the big ten as is.

I hope for no expansion. If there is expansion I hope for Kansas and Iowa State.

Some guy said:

I personally think the gophers have a hard enough time winning the big ten as is.

I hope for no expansion. If there is expansion I hope for Kansas and Iowa State.

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Wow, seriously?

FireDaveLee said:

If Big Ten expansion is bound to happen, I’d rather the conference be proactive in it & go after who the conference would like rather than possibly be left to pick from the rest. Looks like ACC teams are out of reach now with their GOR deal, so poaching the Big XII seems like the best course of action.

I like the idea of going after Texas & Kansas the most (OU & OSU picked up by SEC), like the article says. Texas will not be down for ever & gives an instant football power to the West. KU’s football resume doesn’t need to be hashed over, but they would be an instant jolt to basketball, which the BTN cares about, creating instant inventory. Put these 2 in the west, send Purdue over to the east (IU-PU now together), no need for protected crossovers. I can live with a MN-WI-IA-NE-NW-IL-UT-KU division in terms of teams I want to play and competition level. Go to 10 conference games so we see the other division 3 times, therefore nearly every student-athlete sees every conference school a few times, minus the 1 they’d miss due to rotation.

Just think this is the best way to go about it, considering the current state of the game.

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I agree with this. Go to 10 conference games if we get to 16 teams. Then continue to play 3 crossover games each season. But get rid of having to play the same crossover teams back to back years. Make it so you play all teams in the other division at least once every 3 seasons.

Some guy said:

I personally think the gophers have a hard enough time winning the big ten as is.

I hope for no expansion. If there is expansion I hope for Kansas and Iowa State.

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+1000. I have zero interest in teams that we can't expect to beat on a consistent basis...and I really don't understand the counter-argument. Give me 3 cupcakes in the non-conference and try our best to get to 6-8 wins overall after that, and call it a life. The economics of college football have been set - there is no growing above your place anymore...there is too much knowledge and consciousness out there. We will forever hover between lower-middle class and upper-middle class as football program.

But, it's not like I have completely given up on our potential. I have always said Iowa and Wisconsin is what we need to compare ourselves to - and there is a lot of improvement that can be made in that regard. Just, please, stop talking about 'helmet' schools - we will never be one. Modern society has settled in, and it is permanent.

Not that schools, or anybody, could have known this but you basically needed to become a power by the late '90s if you ever wanted to be one. There was a time where you could 'out work' people and surprise, but now everybody works at the highest capacity leaving outliers a thing of the past. Baring a catastrophic change in society (Trump? but I can't see how that would benefit a sane state like MN) there will be no movement in the 'Powers That Be.' There is room for one 'upstart' team in the Upper Mid-West so perhaps we could replace Wisconsin as the team nobody says they want to play, but they never fear them...ever.