TE Nathan Bursch has committed to the Gophers!

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Tells you something about our recruiting. When Bursch committed we were happy that he was on board with us for two reasons. One was that he was a local kid and we want our players to stay home. Secondly he was considered a solid get by many at the time. Now due to Fleck's continued recruiting, we've gotten better yet.

So thanks to Bursch for helping us raise the bar here in Minnesota. Good luck to you!
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I read this as a sarcastic comment. Which does lead to a pertinent question - which came first - the players coming to MN, or the players leaving MN? You would think the Coaches would have to know how many spots were open - meaning that they would have to know how many kids were leaving. Nothing wrong with this - just wondering when the coaches knew who was leaving, and how this was communicated.

Also can't help wondering if the players leaving all reached those decisions on their own, or whether the staff gave them a little "help." again - NOT implying anything underhanded. this stuff goes on at every D1 program in the country. If a kid was not going to play meaningful snaps at MN, and the coaches laid it out and gave them options, that's great.

Just agreeing with Spoof (assuming that's his point) that this is not a coincidence.
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I'm sure there are varying degrees of both. I'm sure sometimes the players have a chip on their shoulder and are pissed they aren't playing and can't wait to get out and prove the coach wrong. Other times the coach sits them down and gives them honest feedback that they just aren't cutting it. This one seems a little odd since he played in the Spring, but yet they had to know he was leaving (to Spoofin's point, assuming sarcasm). I don't know if the Gophers did that to give him some game film to show other teams? Otherwise they kind of wasted their own time and other players' time.

It seemed like he just didn't fit what they were looking for at either OL or TE. Wish it would have worked out for him, but wish him nothing but luck going forward.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I read this as a sarcastic comment. Which does lead to a pertinent question - which came first - the players coming to MN, or the players leaving MN? You would think the Coaches would have to know how many spots were open - meaning that they would have to know how many kids were leaving. Nothing wrong with this - just wondering when the coaches knew who was leaving, and how this was communicated.

Also can't help wondering if the players leaving all reached those decisions on their own, or whether the staff gave them a little "help." again - NOT implying anything underhanded. this stuff goes on at every D1 program in the country. If a kid was not going to play meaningful snaps at MN, and the coaches laid it out and gave them options, that's great.

Just agreeing with Spoof (assuming that's his point) that this is not a coincidence.
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Yeah, it’s almost like the coaches have conversations with their players throughout the year that we aren’t privy to.
 

Jeshurun said:
Yeah, it’s almost like the coaches have conversations with their players throughout the year that we aren’t privy to.
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Missing the point. Of course the conversations happen - the question is who is talking.

Every time this happens - this thread being no exception - posts are made suggesting the player made this decision. “Can’t blame a kid for wanting playing time”, etc. The sarcasm in my post was directed at that naive assumption. My guess is that in many cases the player isn’t looking for more playing time - he is being told to leave. As SON said, happens everywhere & it is OK to be fine with it, but let’s call a spade a spade - even if that spade shows an ugly side of the sport, college, coach.


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Spoofin said:
Missing the point. Of course the conversations happen - the question is who is talking.

Every time this happens - this thread being no exception - posts are made suggesting the player made this decision. “Can’t blame a kid for wanting playing time”, etc. The sarcasm in my post was directed at that naive assumption. My guess is that in many cases the player isn’t looking for more playing time - he is being told to leave. As SON said, happens everywhere & it is OK to be fine with it, but let’s call a spade a spade - even if that spade shows an ugly side of the sport, college, coach.


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You have any evidence players are being forced out, or is this just pure conjecture?
 



Given the scholarship numbers and the number of incoming players every year...well. Has it ever come to pass a team had to rescind an incoming recruit due to a current player’s unwillingness to leave? There must be a story out there.
 

Spoofin said:
Are you suggesting none are?


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I’m not saying definitively that they aren’t, but I like to see evidence when disparaging claims are made against someone. Without proof, I can’t accept the notion that Fleck is telling kids to leave the program that want to stay. Fleck has said himself that they have conversations with all their players about where they fall on the depth chart, etc. I don’t think that’s the same as forcing a kid out. It would lessen my view of Fleck if true. If you have any evidence, I’m all ears.
 

Jeshurun said:
I’m not saying definitively that they aren’t, but I like to see evidence when disparaging claims are made against someone. Without proof, I can’t accept the notion that Fleck is telling kids to leave the program that want to stay. Fleck has said himself that they have conversations with all their players about where they fall on the depth chart, etc. I don’t think that’s the same as forcing a kid out. It would lessen my view of Fleck if true. If you have any evidence, I’m all ears.
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No evidence. Common sense. As mentioned, I don’t think that is unique to us. I think it happens everywhere. I have issues with PJ - that isn’t one of them. I don’t like it - but accept it to how CFB is.


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Spoofin said:
No evidence. Common sense. As mentioned, I don’t think that is unique to us. I think it happens everywhere. I have issues with PJ - that isn’t one of them. I don’t like it - but accept it to how CFB is.


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Fair enough. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this point.
 

If my count if correct, 8 of 25 from that class no longer with the team.
 

It's possible he wanted to go through spring ball to try to prove he deserves to get playing time. But afterwards he realized it just wasn't going to happen. Who knows.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Given the scholarship numbers and the number of incoming players every year...well. Has it ever come to pass a team had to rescind an incoming recruit due to a current player’s unwillingness to leave? There must be a story out there.
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Rumblings are out there that power houses like Alabama do this, or they tell a player "from now on your injured" -- that way they can still be paid as a scholarship but don't count against the 85 player cap.
 



GophersInIowa said:
It's possible he wanted to go through spring ball to try to prove he deserves to get playing time. But afterwards he realized it just wasn't going to happen. Who knows.
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But say he would have proven that, and wanted to stay..... How do the scholarship numbers work then? At some point something has to give - current players or recruits. 85 is 85.


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PMWinSTP said:
If my count if correct, 8 of 25 from that class no longer with the team.
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I think there are 6 gone from the 2017 class: Handy-Holly, Beck, London, Estes, Schirck and now Bursch. Silver also but that was due to injuries.

I'd fully expect Fleck or any coach to have higher than average attrition after putting together a recruiting class in a month. He didn't have time to fully vet players the way you would if you were recruiting them for years and he honored the previous commitments from the MN players. Plus, if his recruiting is truly improving, I'd expect quite a few guys in the 2017 class to get passed up on the depth chart.
 

Spoofin said:
Are you suggesting none are?


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Burns said he has talked to several players that have transferred out and none of them were forced out. Said the the coaching staff is upfront that they are buried on the depth chart and that they would help them find a new place but they were welcome to stay if they chose to do so, according the guys that have transferred.
 

die hard gopher said:
Burns said he has talked to several players that have transferred out and none of them were forced out. Said the the coaching staff is upfront that they are buried on the depth chart and that they would help them find a new place but they were welcome to stay if they chose to do so, according the guys that have transferred.
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The players are obviously lying to Burns. Spoofin's common sense would tell us so....
 

die hard gopher said:
Burns said he has talked to several players that have transferred out and none of them were forced out. Said the the coaching staff is upfront that they are buried on the depth chart and that they would help them find a new place but they were welcome to stay if they chose to do so, according the guys that have transferred.
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Are you simply amazed that the numbers just work out? At every team. Every year.


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John Galt said:
The players are obviously lying to Burns. Spoofin's common sense would tell us so....
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Always look for motivation in an answer to any question. Life lesson JG.


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Spoofin said:
But say he would have proven that, and wanted to stay..... How do the scholarship numbers work then? At some point something has to give - current players or recruits. 85 is 85.


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I haven't tried breaking down the numbers. Do we know if Bursch leaving was needed to get them down to 85?
 

John Galt said:
I think there are 6 gone from the 2017 class: Handy-Holly, Beck, London, Estes, Schirck and now Bursch. Silver also but that was due to injuries.

I'd fully expect Fleck or any coach to have higher than average attrition after putting together a recruiting class in a month. He didn't have time to fully vet players the way you would if you were recruiting them for years and he honored the previous commitments from the MN players. Plus, if his recruiting is truly improving, I'd expect quite a few guys in the 2017 class to get passed up on the depth chart.
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It is seven. Just an observation, not saying it is high.
 

#2Gopher said:
Tells you something about our recruiting. When Bursch committed we were happy that he was on board with us for two reasons. One was that he was a local kid and we want our players to stay home. Secondly he was considered a solid get by many at the time. Now due to Fleck's continued recruiting, we've gotten better yet.

So thanks to Bursch for helping us raise the bar here in Minnesota. Good luck to you!
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Actually feels like fairly normal attrition...needed to continue to bring in decent to full sized classes....that's what it tells me about recruiting.
 

Spoofin said:
Always look for motivation in an answer to any question. Life lesson JG.


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Trust me - I fully looked for your motivation in this thread.
 

John Galt said:
Trust me - I fully looked for your motivation in this thread.
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Like when I clearly posted my opinion? Sherlock Holmes has nothing on you.

FTR - is your opinion that no CFB teams push players out to make scholarship room or just that the Gophers don’t?


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Spoofin said:
Like when I clearly posted my opinion? Sherlock Holmes has nothing on you.

FTR - is your opinion that no CFB teams push players out to make scholarship room or just that the Gophers don’t?


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Define "pushing players out?" You went from saying "My guess is that in many cases the player isn’t looking for more playing time - he is being told to leave" to guys are being "pushed out."


If a kid isn't good enough where he is ever going to see the field, I'm sure that Fleck and every coach discusses it with them and encourages them to move on. That's a very different discussion than being told your scholarship is being pulled.
 

John Galt said:
Define "pushing players out?" You went from saying "My guess is that in many cases the player isn’t looking for more playing time - he is being told to leave" to guys are being "pushed out."
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To me, being pushed out and being told to leave are the same. Potato potato. Tomato Tomato. Clear enough? Defined?

John Galt said:
If a kid isn't good enough where he is ever going to see the field, I'm sure that Fleck and every coach discusses it with them and <b>encourages them to move on. </b>That's a very different discussion than being told your scholarship is being pulled.
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Encourages = pushes out = told to leave. Potato potato. Tomato tomato. How naive are you?

Same discussion. Not different. Just like a shutout is a shutout and a non shutout is not a shutout. Stop complicating things to fit your needs.

I am clear on my opinion - so what is yours? Does no CFB team push out players to clear scholarships or just not the Gophers?

I’m not talking PJ here. Sorry to disappoint. I am talking all of college football. Everyone does it. Common sense. Obvious. Get with the game.


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Spoofin said:
To me, being pushed out and being told to leave are the same. Potato potato. Tomato Tomato. Clear enough? Defined?



Encourages = pushes out = told to leave. Potato potato. Tomato tomato. How naive are you?

Same discussion. Not different. Just like a shutout is a shutout and a non shutout is not a shutout. Stop complicating things to fit your needs.

I am clear on my opinion - so what is yours? Does no CFB team push out players to clear scholarships or just not the Gophers?

I’m not talking PJ here. Sorry to disappoint. I am talking all of college football. Everyone does it. Common sense. Obvious. Get with the game.


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No - I don’t think any college coaches pull a player’s scholarship due to on-field performance. I’d be happy to see an example if you have one.
 

John Galt said:
No - I don’t think any college coaches pull a player’s scholarship due to on-field performance. I’d be happy to see an example if you have one.
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Unicorns and Rainbows.
Motherhood and Apple Pie.

So, you think the scholarship number working out every year for every team is just lucky. Wanna buy some waterfront property?

Have a good weekend. Research what a shutout is.


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Spoofin said:
Unicorns and Rainbows.
Motherhood and Apple Pie.

So, you think the scholarship number working out every year for every team is just lucky. Wanna buy some waterfront property?

Have a good weekend. Research what a shutout is.


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If it happens all the time, you must have a few examples Mr Common Sense...
 

John Galt said:
If it happens all the time, you must have a few examples Mr Common Sense...
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Definition of shutout:
1 : a game or contest in which one side fails to score


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