Sunday Sports Show--what was being alluded to?

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bizzle22 said:
Agree on most of your points.

On Pitino getting a third year: I think Pitino would have gotten a third year pretty much regardless of what happened in the first two record-wise. I mean, he got a 4th year with that same exact winning percentage in his first 3 years. Don't know why it would have been different after 2.

On Butler: 100% correct. That thing has been building for some time. Interesting fact: Holtmann is the first guy to be HC who was not a former Butler player since before Collier.

On Larranaga: A coach earns quite a bit of leeway when he goes 29-7, wins a conference title, and makes the Sweet Sixteen all in his second season. If any coach came to MN and did that I would give them a pass on their third year. Lots of people are giving Pitino a pass on his 8-23 third year and his first two years were not nearly as good as Larranaga's first two at Miami.
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I agree 100% with this. Especially the Larranaga part. My point was that even the best case situations that were thrown out as examples they either aren't as nice as we remember or the program in which it has happened had a richer recent history than the gophers have had(unfortunately).
 

I did not know that you wanted 45 years of data on how programs were built and what was done well from day one. Some on here want to slam the admiration of Tony Bennett but even Pitino's father speaks openly with his praise of Bennett. Insults do not change the facts and the weak attempts at comparisons between Bennett and Richard B. are laughable. The fact of the matter is RP is off to one of the worst attempts at building something into a program at a power conference i have seen. It is very much along the likes of a Penn State or a Georgia Tech. Additionally most of his non conference wins have been against a incredibly weak schedule every year.
 

builtbadgers said:
I did not know that you wanted 45 years of data on how programs were built and what was done well from day one. Some on here want to slam the admiration of Tony Bennett but even Pitino's father speaks openly with his praise of Bennett. Insults do not change the facts and the weak attempts at comparisons between Bennett and Richard B. are laughable. The fact of the matter is RP is off to one of the worst attempts at building something into a program at a power conference i have seen. It is very much along the likes of a Penn State or a Georgia Tech. Additionally most of his non conference wins have been against a incredibly weak schedule every year.
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Broken Record clap clap clapclapclap Broken record clap clap clapclapclap
 

I asked for stats because you are describing how a very very proportion of programs have risen into a small window of prominence. Maybe when I get back from vacation I will make it a pet project to see how many teams per decade rise into the prominence you describe.

Does anyone know how to quickly scrub any sites for team stats? I think I've come across it before...




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builtbadgers said:
I did not know that you wanted 45 years of data on how programs were built and what was done well from day one. Some on here want to slam the admiration of Tony Bennett but even Pitino's father speaks openly with his praise of Bennett. Insults do not change the facts and the weak attempts at comparisons between Bennett and Richard B. are laughable. The fact of the matter is RP is off to one of the worst attempts at building something into a program at a power conference i have seen. It is very much along the likes of a Penn State or a Georgia Tech. Additionally most of his non conference wins have been against a incredibly weak schedule every year.
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We just wanted some examples that fit your definition of success, of which you gave maybe 2.
 

tjgopher said:
Brad Stevens was not a player at Butler.
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Right. My bad. I forgot he played D3. He was an assistant at Butler for a long time though, and he's an Indy kid. I guess what I was getting at is that it's impressive the way Butler has done things. Haven't made an outside hire in almost 30 years. Their last 5 head coaches were promoted from within. Four of their last six coaches were former players. That can't be very common for a team that has also enjoyed quite a bit of national success in that time.
 

bizzle22 said:
Right. My bad. I forgot he played D3. He was an assistant at Butler for a long time though, and he's an Indy kid. I guess what I was getting at is that it's impressive the way Butler has done things. Haven't made an outside hire in almost 30 years. Their last 5 head coaches were promoted from within. Four of their last six coaches were former players. That can't be very common for a team that has also enjoyed quite a bit of national success in that time.
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I generally agree with you and there's no doubt what Butler has done is quite uncommon. But, I don't think it is all that uncommon for highly successful mid-majors to promote from within. I know Butler and Xavier are no longer mid-majors, but they have promoted from within a lot with great success. UNI promoted Jacobson from within, Gonzaga promoted Few from within, NDSU has promoted from within, VCU promoted from within when Shaka left, when SIU had it rolling, they promoted from Weber to Painter to Lowery. Doesn't mean it always works, but it happens frequently, especially when a program is rolling.

And, Boise State football is likely the prime example of promoting from within, probably preceding the "Butler" model.
 

tjgopher said:
I generally agree with you and there's no doubt what Butler has done is quite uncommon. But, I don't think it is all that uncommon for highly successful mid-majors to promote from within. I know Butler and Xavier are no longer mid-majors, but they have promoted from within a lot with great success. UNI promoted Jacobson from within, Gonzaga promoted Few from within, NDSU has promoted from within, VCU promoted from within when Shaka left, when SIU had it rolling, they promoted from Weber to Painter to Lowery. Doesn't mean it always works, but it happens frequently, especially when a program is rolling.

And, Boise State football is likely the prime example of promoting from within, probably preceding the "Butler" model.
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Ha. I was gonna use Boise St football as an example as well. It's interesting because it seems to be the model for mid-majors to follow if they want to sustain success. If they have a coach who is successful it is probably more important to lock up his top assistant to a good contract than to try to keep the HC by throwing more money at him. It's tough to get the head coach to stay when a major program can offer triple the salary and recruiting budget plus better facilities, but if you have a good succession plan in place it has been shown by Xavier/Butler/etc. that the program can get past losing a HC with that consistency.

I had always wondered about Few when it comes to some of these major job openings, but I suppose if you are making a million plus $ a year with airtight job security and great support from the school in a city that you love why make a move? Few is one of the most underrated coaches in the entire country. 17 years as a head coach. 17 NCAA tournaments, and advanced past the first round in all but 3 of them. Sure, they play in an easy conference, but that consistency is still very impressive. The Zags are a team I pull for in the tourney when the Gophers don't make it, which sadly has been way too often in my lifetime.
 



bizzle22 said:
Ha. I was gonna use Boise St football as an example as well. It's interesting because it seems to be the model for mid
I think Few saw how Monson did here and thought to himself why leave when I can turn Gonzaga into a Major caliber program.
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dtrain19 said:
If LaVelle knows the "dirt" then the Strib would know and they wouldn't hold back given their recent history. I've heard a story or two about RP that basically would turn people off but nothing scandalous. Definitely nothing winning wouldn't cure.
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bigticket1 said:
Maybe he forgot to check the oil in addition to not topping off the tank ?
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dtrain can you confirm bigticket's accusation?
 

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