Tough road recruiting this year with lack of in -state talent.

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ruppertflywheel

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In looking at our to biggest Rivals Iowa and Wisconsin, who both have double digit numbers in commitments, it is obvious they have better numbers on in -state kids versus Minnesota. At least half of their commitments are from the home state. We currently rank 11th in the B1G according too Rivals,Scout, and 247. Last year a good in -state crop bolstered our recruiting. No so this year. We may only sign two more kids from Minnesota ; meaning we'll need to bring 13-14 kids from out of state according to what TC quoted on numbers. I think our staff can "coach" with any staff in the B1G, but I'm very skeptical about our ability to recruit, especially nationally. Nationally,
we currently rank 59th. Yes, I know it is early, but you look at a crap program like Maryland and they're ranked 12th on the national level; including 1 five star and 2 four star recruits. Maybe, maybe not an over reaction on my part,but looking at the scheduled visits the cupboard is pretty bare.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
In looking at our to biggest Rivals Iowa and Wisconsin, who both have double digit numbers in commitments, it is obvious they have better numbers on in -state kids versus Minnesota. At least half of their commitments are from the home state. We currently rank 11th in the B1G according too Rivals,Scout, and 247. Last year a good in -state crop bolstered our recruiting. No so this year. We may only sign two more kids from Minnesota ; meaning we'll need to bring 13-14 kids from out of state according to what TC quoted on numbers. I think our staff can "coach" with any staff in the B1G, but I'm very skeptical about our ability to recruit, especially nationally. Nationally,
we currently rank 59th. Yes, I know it is early, but you look at a crap program like Maryland and they're ranked 12th on the national level; including 1 five star and 2 four star recruits. Maybe, maybe not an over reaction on my part,but looking at the scheduled visits the cupboard is pretty bare.
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Rankings don't matter when we have 3 recruits. It's not that the staff is the best at closing sales, it's that they are above average in identifying recruits. No worries at all.
 

Some programs don't have to recruit extremely hard out of state. We have to scrap for recruits or find under recruited guys.

It's a tough battle. As much as I admire Claeys as a coach I have a feeling his low-key approach will be appreciated by some and maybe not so much by others.

If you have some time read this fascinating and eye-opening book by Bruce Feldman:

http://www.amazon.com/Meat-Market-Smash-Mouth-Football-Recruiting/dp/1933060395

Ed Orgeron is a lunatic but a tireless recruiter. He is Brewster on steroids and Red Bull. He was also a terrible head coach and was canned at Ole Miss after 3 awful seasons. Organizations need some of both the salesmen, and the smarts like Claeys.

I hope we have an Orgeron or Brewster type on staff. Seems like Sawvel and maybe a few of the others have that intensity and energy. Winning will grease the skids for anyone so lets hope we have a ten win season.
 

We are a medical industry heavy state with a major health center destination in Rochester. Do you think these people sit silently by as injury prevention is on their professional minds? It is absurd to think Minnesota would ever be a hotbed for contact sports. Now, there are contact sports minded medical providers, but they are a distinct minority in the profession.
 

So now it all becomes clear. It is the WFMC that is preventing TC from having more than three recruits, one a PFW I believe.
Damn, if it were not for all of those MD's in MN the Gophers would have been dominating the BIG in FB for years.
Who knew?
 


I knew this was going to be a stupid post. Why did I even click on it?
 

The cliche has always been that the Gophers look in-state for certain positions (OL primarily) and go out-state for speed and skill positions.

So, if there is a year where the in-state talent is down, that ups the ante for out-state recruiting.

We're just back to the same old catch-22 of programs like the Gophers. In order to win big, they need to bring in better recruits - but in order to bring in better recruits, they need to win big.

I just don't see this program winning B1G titles or playing in major bowl games until they find a way to bring in at least a few 4* recruits, or even the occasional 5*.

At the current level of recruiting, this is a program that can win 8 (or maybe 9) games in a good season - but to take "the next step," that is going to require more than getting a bunch of 3* players and "coaching them up."

The new facilities may help a little, but in the end, someone on this coaching staff needs to become the kind of recruiter who can reel in the big fish.
 

PhillyGopher said:
I knew this was going to be a stupid post. Why did I even click on it?
Click to expand...

Because it is obvious you know nothing about the why and why not's of recruiting. At some point you need to bring in some 4 star recruits. You can only coach up so many players. You can't get to the next level junior by bringing in classes that rank in the top 50's. If you weren't such a moron,you would understand that. Minnesota might produce a dozen 3 star or better recruits once every 10 years, and by in large, those will be OL. The real good athletes in this state gravitate toward hockey. There are many long suffering fans on this site. If you want a f-ing Rose Bowl you bring in Rose Bowl talent I' m not going throw the baby out with the bath water, but the coaches on this current staff that I would consider above average recruiter's are Jay S
and Mike Sherels. The two best head coaches regarding recruiting in the long suffering years
as Gopher fan and season ticket holder have been Cal Stoll and Lou Holtz . Warmath didn't have to recruit. He gave the black athletes from the South a chance to play big time college football. Thus Sandy Stephens, Bell, Munsey, Dickson, etc. Actually ass't coach Bob Bossons was the coach who brought in all the quality black players in the early 60's The bottom line, you win big with top shelf recruits. If you get your rocks off if with a 8 win season, so be it. At my age I've seen enough of mediocrity .
 

short ornery norwegian said:
The cliche has always been that the Gophers look in-state for certain positions (OL primarily) and go out-state for speed and skill positions.

So, if there is a year where the in-state talent is down, that ups the ante for out-state recruiting.

We're just back to the same old catch-22 of programs like the Gophers. In order to win big, they need to bring in better recruits - but in order to bring in better recruits, they need to win big.

I just don't see this program winning B1G titles or playing in major bowl games until they find a way to bring in at least a few 4* recruits, or even the occasional 5*.

At the current level of recruiting, this is a program that can win 8 (or maybe 9) games in a good season - but to take "the next step," that is going to require more than getting a bunch of 3* players and "coaching them up."

The new facilities may help a little, but in the end, someone on this coaching staff needs to become the kind of recruiter who can reel in the big fish.
Click to expand...

plus 1
 



Well, we do have a handful of 4 star guys but we could always use more. The schedule is favorable for a big season. We might have a productive and exciting offense going forward to sell to recruits.

Northwestern, Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Purdue have all had flashes of success and none were or are reeling in top 25 type classes. Iowa and Wisconsin, despite all their recent relative success, have recruited only marginally better than us. We need to hit on some difference makers, and we need good coaching. It's very possible we have both of those things in our program right now.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
The cliche has always been that the Gophers look in-state for certain positions (OL primarily) and go out-state for speed and skill positions.

So, if there is a year where the in-state talent is down, that ups the ante for out-state recruiting.

We're just back to the same old catch-22 of programs like the Gophers. In order to win big, they need to bring in better recruits - but in order to bring in better recruits, they need to win big.

I just don't see this program winning B1G titles or playing in major bowl games until they find a way to bring in at least a few 4* recruits, or even the occasional 5*.

At the current level of recruiting, this is a program that can win 8 (or maybe 9) games in a good season - but to take "the next step," that is going to require more than getting a bunch of 3* players and "coaching them up."

The new facilities may help a little, but in the end, someone on this coaching staff needs to become the kind of recruiter who can reel in the big fish.
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly, unless you have a big time proven coach with top notch recruiters MN is in the proverbial tundra in football.

What this program desperately need is to get lucky in recruitng. Maybe, somebody over signs and they get players late in the game.

Otherwise, they can look in some god forsaken place like Tonga or inner New Guinea to find some natural athletes who don't think it is okay to eat your opponents (exception, red badgers).
 

Recruiting wise we should be able to be consistently in 25-40 range. In the end well never be consistent in top 20 in ranking
 

Heck some of our best recruits are low rates guys. Our highest rated recruits seem to be busts
 



ruppertflywheel said:
Because it is obvious you know nothing about the why and why not's of recruiting. At some point you need to bring in some 4 star recruits. You can only coach up so many players. You can't get to the next level junior by bringing in classes that rank in the top 50's. If you weren't such a moron,you would understand that. Minnesota might produce a dozen 3 star or better recruits once every 10 years, and by in large, those will be OL. The real good athletes in this state gravitate toward hockey. There are many long suffering fans on this site. If you want a f-ing Rose Bowl you bring in Rose Bowl talent I' m not going throw the baby out with the bath water, but the coaches on this current staff that I would consider above average recruiter's are Jay S
and Mike Sherels. The two best head coaches regarding recruiting in the long suffering years
as Gopher fan and season ticket holder have been Cal Stoll and Lou Holtz . Warmath didn't have to recruit. He gave the black athletes from the South a chance to play big time college football. Thus Sandy Stephens, Bell, Munsey, Dickson, etc. Actually ass't coach Bob Bossons was the coach who brought in all the quality black players in the early 60's The bottom line, you win big with top shelf recruits. If you get your rocks off if with a 8 win season, so be it. At my age I've seen enough of mediocrity .
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this post was entertaining from start to finish.
 

If WI and IA were only marginally better at recruiting than the Gophers than their relative success compared to the Gophers must have been due to better coaching.
Neither of those teams needed to fill their scholarships with JCO's.
Both of those teams had better seasons last year than the Gophers.
I am not a fan of quantifying what cannot be quantified so ignoring the silly stars the results are clear that they were able to recruit better and coach better.
The upcoming season has a very favorable conference schedule. If the conference record is again poor it is time for a house cleaning.
 

olddoc said:
If WI and IA were only marginally better at recruiting than the Gophers than their relative success compared to the Gophers must have been due to better coaching.
Neither of those teams needed to fill their scholarships with JCO's.
Both of those teams had better seasons last year than the Gophers.
I am not a fan of quantifying what cannot be quantified so ignoring the silly stars the results are clear that they were able to recruit better and coach better.
The upcoming season has a very favorable conference schedule. If the conference record is again poor it is time for a house cleaning.
Click to expand...

Being better at recruiting and recruiting rankings aren't same



And good see you're still obsessed with juco
 

salzie said:
Being better at recruiting and recruiting rankings aren't same
Click to expand...

Where I would agree stars don't tell the whole story, it is hard to challenge dots.
 

I'm a pretty big fan of S&P+ composite rankings (and Football Study Hall) and the gophers have pretty consistently out kicked their coverage (in regards to recruiting rankings) the last few years after they had their guys in place.

I'm feeling too lazy but it wouldn't be too difficult to compile a Rivals or 247 composite rankings for the prior 5 years and compare to the S&P+ ranking at the end of any given 5 year period for any given team.

I'm a big believer that coaching is all-important. Now, there are limits to that. I don't believe Saban could come here and take this roster to the championship, but I do think he would maximize the talent we have, put guys in the proper positions, and his team would be ready to play with a good game plan. I've seen too many talented teams wasted and average rosters excel to believe otherwise.
 



salzie said:
http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...-rankings-ratings-2015-college-football-teams

Wisconsin 44
Iowa 52
Minnesota 60
Click to expand...

The 4 year averages are remarkably similar to their 2015 rankings...huh, wierd.

Seems like that writer needs to brush up on significant figures.

Final worthless observation: Purdue ranked just behind the gophers at 61. Also "wierd". If you want quality comments, visit Purdue's SBnation site after a loss for the game thread. They are good sports with great gallows humor. They have fully embraced the train wreck their program has become. Good stuff.
 

The difference in the overall recruit rankings for teams in the 40's, 50's or 60's don't really matter that much. Isn't the difference in just bringing in one 4 star or how many of their players are 2 vs 3 stars. The player rankings for most of those players are just a guess since no one really knows those players. Star rankings are much more accurate for the well know 4 or 5 star players.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

olddoc said:
If WI and IA were only marginally better at recruiting than the Gophers than their relative success compared to the Gophers must have been due to better coaching.
Neither of those teams needed to fill their scholarships with JCO's.
Both of those teams had better seasons last year than the Gophers.
I am not a fan of quantifying what cannot be quantified so ignoring the silly stars the results are clear that they were able to recruit better and coach better.
The upcoming season has a very favorable conference schedule. If the conference record is again poor it is time for a house cleaning.
Click to expand...

It can be quantified. You can say it as many times as you want, and you'll still be wrong.

Oh, and Iowa and Wisconsin never sign "JCO's". Great point.
 

Dean S said:
We are a medical industry heavy state with a major health center destination in Rochester. Do you think these people sit silently by as injury prevention is on their professional minds? It is absurd to think Minnesota would ever be a hotbed for contact sports. Now, there are contact sports minded medical providers, but they are a distinct minority in the profession.
Click to expand...

That's just crazy talk.
 

olddoc said:
If WI and IA were only marginally better at recruiting than the Gophers than their relative success compared to the Gophers must have been due to better coaching.
Neither of those teams needed to fill their scholarships with JCO's.
Both of those teams had better seasons last year than the Gophers.
I am not a fan of quantifying what cannot be quantified so ignoring the silly stars the results are clear that they were able to recruit better and coach better.
The upcoming season has a very favorable conference schedule. If the conference record is again poor it is time for a house cleaning.
Click to expand...

Just like the Gophers. There is a difference between needing to and wanting to.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Warmath didn't have to recruit. He gave the black athletes from the South a chance to play big time college football. Thus Sandy Stephens, Bell, Munsey, Dickson, etc. Actually ass't coach Bob Bossons was the coach who brought in all the quality black players in the early 60's The bottom line, you win big with top shelf recruits. If you get your rocks off if with a 8 win season, so be it. At my age I've seen enough of mediocrity .
Click to expand...

Not a big deal, but only Bell was from the South (NC). I think that the others listed were from Pennsylvania.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Because it is obvious you know nothing about the why and why not's of recruiting. At some point you need to bring in some 4 star recruits. You can only coach up so many players. You can't get to the next level junior by bringing in classes that rank in the top 50's. If you weren't such a moron,you would understand that. Minnesota might produce a dozen 3 star or better recruits once every 10 years, and by in large, those will be OL. The real good athletes in this state gravitate toward hockey. There are many long suffering fans on this site. If you want a f-ing Rose Bowl you bring in Rose Bowl talent I' m not going throw the baby out with the bath water, but the coaches on this current staff that I would consider above average recruiter's are Jay S
and Mike Sherels. The two best head coaches regarding recruiting in the long suffering years
as Gopher fan and season ticket holder have been Cal Stoll and Lou Holtz . Warmath didn't have to recruit. He gave the black athletes from the South a chance to play big time college football. Thus Sandy Stephens, Bell, Munsey, Dickson, etc. Actually ass't coach Bob Bossons was the coach who brought in all the quality black players in the early 60's The bottom line, you win big with top shelf recruits. If you get your rocks off if with a 8 win season, so be it. At my age I've seen enough of mediocrity .
Click to expand...

I believe Stephens and Dickson were from Uniontown, P.A., but I get your point.
 

Too bad John Anderson isn't our football coach.

http://www.startribune.com/big-ten-...aseball-to-healthy-postseason-runs/380526941/

"The Gophers were regularly one of the top teams in the country in the early 2000s and won either a Big Ten regular-season or conference tournament championship*five straight years (2000-2004). The program won only*one Big Ten regular-season title and conference tournament (the same year) from 2005-2015 and missed the Big Ten tournament hosted at Target Field last season after finishing ninth in the standings."

I wish the football program won only one B1G championship in the last 10-years and hasn't been one of the top programs in the country dating way back to the early 2000s. Then again, there is probably a lot more D1 baseball talent in MN than football and a lot easier to recruit southern baseball talent to come here too.
 

salzie said:
Recruiting wise we should be able to be consistently in 25-40 range. In the end well never be consistent in top 20 in ranking
Click to expand...
We will very likely never be consistently in the 25-40 range either, frankly. Go look at the link someone else provided of the 4-year average ranking.

The vast majority of the schools in that 25-40 range produce a lot more local talent than we do, or are at least bordering a state that does. The only real comparisons to us would be Nebraska, which is still riding the coattails of being a helmet school with phenomenal facilities, and Washington, which gets to play in California 2-4 times a year.

Wisconsin has done about as well as you could expect a program to do in their situation, and they still rank around 40th in recruiting rankings on average.
 

It would seem the first two instate commits Blaise Andreis and Eric Abojei are the top two players. Both could be ready to play. If the remaining 18 to 21 recruits are as good as these two, I would be happy.
 

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