Pitino Post game - On taking King out, the last plays, and thinking that this would..

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GopherLady

GopherLady

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finally be the game we won.

Here are my notes - not verbatim, just catching what I can.

• It's hard to tell a guy, "hey you're not a great 3 point shooter" - but we started driving it. Buggs has been really really cold, we've got to stop shooting so many 3's because we're not a good 3 point team, but we're a great driving team.
• Break over weekend - anytime you get a little rest, it's a nice thing. Tomorrow we'll have a day off, because we've gotta take one. We're really close, we were down 17 and cut it back to 2, we told our guys, we have a foul to give, and they got the basket and the and one. I'm not saying it was a charge, we've got to foul him earlier on that. We've got to stay hungry, we have 2 top 5 teams in the schedule coming up.
• Not good to get in a 3 point battle with this team, they were so hot at the beginning of the game. That's got to be our identity is driving the ball, that's not who we are, we're not Michigan. I'm proud of the guys, they fought back.
• FT Shooting - Murph seemed very calm, Dupree was good as well, it's a confidence thing.
• Close losses - I felt like tonight was the night we were going to break through, they just made one or two more plays then we did.
• Gilbert back - I knew I wasn't going to play him a lot, Buggs was decent early guarding, we had to get him out, then we had to play small. That was why we were scoring because we were getting in the land with 3 guys.
• Morris - defense at the end - you can't dribble a loose ball, you gotta grab it, he was trying to make a play. He knew he made a mistake.
• On taking Joey King out for defense: They were going at him on every play, it was a tough cover for him, we got him, and I thought defensively we were a much better team.
• We're getting more shots up, showed great heart, but at some point…let's get some wins. They're fighting, that's all we can ask right now.
• When you have the record we have, you don't really overlook anybody, and our guys have done that.
• The last 6 of 7 we've been really close, all of them. We just need to find a way to close this out. During the game, I thought we would break through, but my feelings don't dictate the game.
 

Thank you as always!

GopherLady said:
finally be the game we won.

Here are my notes - not verbatim, just catching what I can.

• It's hard to tell a guy, "hey you're not a great 3 point shooter" - but we started driving it. Buggs has been really really cold, we've got to stop shooting so many 3's because we're not a good 3 point team, but we're a great driving team.
• Break over weekend - anytime you get a little rest, it's a nice thing. Tomorrow we'll have a day off, because we've gotta take one. We're really close, we were down 17 and cut it back to 2, we told our guys, we have a foul to give, and they got the basket and the and one. I'm not saying it was a charge, we've got to foul him earlier on that. We've got to stay hungry, we have 2 top 5 teams in the schedule coming up.
• Not good to get in a 3 point battle with this team, they were so hot at the beginning of the game. That's got to be our identity is driving the ball, that's not who we are, we're not Michigan. I'm proud of the guys, they fought back.
• FT Shooting - Murph seemed very calm, Dupree was good as well, it's a confidence thing.
• Close losses - I felt like tonight was the night we were going to break through, they just made one or two more plays then we did.
• Gilbert back - I knew I wasn't going to play him a lot, Buggs was decent early guarding, we had to get him out, then we had to play small. That was why we were scoring because we were getting in the land with 3 guys.
• Morris - defense at the end - you can't dribble a loose ball, you gotta grab it, he was trying to make a play. He knew he made a mistake.
• On taking Joey King out for defense: They were going at him on every play, it was a tough cover for him, we got him, and I thought defensively we were a much better team.
• We're getting more shots up, showed great heart, but at some point…let's get some wins. They're fighting, that's all we can ask right now.
• When you have the record we have, you don't really overlook anybody, and our guys have done that.
• The last 6 of 7 we've been really close, all of them. We just need to find a way to close this out. During the game, I thought we would break through, but my feelings don't dictate the game.
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I appreciate the post game recap. Thank you!
 

"It's hard to tell a guy "you're not a great three point shooter"?"

Huh? I thought coaches had to deliver difficult messages, especially for the betterment of the team?

Either the message is being delivered to subtly, the player is too dense or both.

The decision to work on a skill ought to be put in the hands of the player, so he can determine the amount of work he needs to put in to try to fix it.

That said this team played much better working to score points inside of ten feet from the basket tonight.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 




The team looked very flat, lethargic, and uninterested. That reflects more on the coach than it does the players, IMO. Look, losing 55 games in a row (give or take) is difficult for everyone especially the players but it's the coaches job to keep the teams morale up and to keep them engaged and by doing so you're going to start winning. Once the team becomes lethargic and uninterested that's when you get into deep trouble.

I get this is a "rebuilding" year and it was going to be a rough season and if this team played like they were truly giving it their all then I would be less concerned. There's players who have moments of playing to win but unfortunately it's here and there.

THIS is what concerns me about Pitino. There's a lot more into winning and having a successful program than the typical "X's" and "O's" and if he can't get his players morale up and get these boys to play with everything they have then I'm more concerned than ever that he's not a great coach.

I know there will be some who disagree with me as there's always going to be people who see things differently and that's fine as I'm simply stating where I'm at this morning.
 

Gopher2017 said:
The team looked very flat, lethargic, and uninterested. That reflects more on the coach than it does the players, IMO. Look, losing 55 games in a row (give or take) is difficult for everyone especially the players but it's the coaches job to keep the teams morale up and to keep them engaged and by doing so you're going to start winning. Once the team becomes lethargic and uninterested that's when you get into deep trouble.

I get this is a "rebuilding" year and it was going to be a rough season and if this team played like they were truly giving it their all then I would be less concerned. There's players who have moments of playing to win but unfortunately it's here and there.

THIS is what concerns me about Pitino. There's a lot more into winning and having a successful program than the typical "X's" and "O's" and if he can't get his players morale up and get these boys to play with everything they have then I'm more concerned than ever that he's not a great coach.

I know there will be some who disagree with me as there's always going to be people who see things differently and that's fine as I'm simply stating where I'm at this morning.
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Very fair points but the team was down 14 at half and rallied back to within a basket. The morale was high enough for that at least. Agree that this team has "moments" but I don't know if it is morale and playing hard that were the problem. Michigan was hot from 3 in the first half and we were ice cold shooting the ball. There may have been some possessions where people looked uninterested but as a whole that didn't stick out to me.
 

Gopher2017 said:
The team looked very flat, lethargic, and uninterested. That reflects more on the coach than it does the players, IMO. Look, losing 55 games in a row (give or take) is difficult for everyone especially the players but it's the coaches job to keep the teams morale up and to keep them engaged and by doing so you're going to start winning. Once the team becomes lethargic and uninterested that's when you get into deep trouble.

I get this is a "rebuilding" year and it was going to be a rough season and if this team played like they were truly giving it their all then I would be less concerned. There's players who have moments of playing to win but unfortunately it's here and there.

THIS is what concerns me about Pitino. There's a lot more into winning and having a successful program than the typical "X's" and "O's" and if he can't get his players morale up and get these boys to play with everything they have then I'm more concerned than ever that he's not a great coach.

I know there will be some who disagree with me as there's always going to be people who see things differently and that's fine as I'm simply stating where I'm at this morning.
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I liked the way the team responded more to Mason's hustle play steal/TO that turned things around and led to a 11-1 run, speaks more about Mason as a leader than Pitino as a coach, but i give RP credit for getting a kid like that here. Sidenote: announcer was annoying and over the top talking about the play and how that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. Uh... yes it does, it's a steal dork.
 

Fair enough and you're right, I wrote that with the Michigan game in mind and I should have written it to reflect that past few games. The lethargic style of playing seems to have taken control over the past few games.

I changed the channel from the Gopher game to the Wolves game. The Wolves came back from 19 down (or something like that) and won! KAT is a beast. Now if only the Wolves had a better coach! I'm noticing a trend with me. Ha.
 



the team has heart! they were playing some really good defense most of the game and we were getting some great open shots, BUT YOU HAVE TO MAKE SOME OF THEM! the idea is truly that simple, although making those shots are not.

NASA35....seriously?

the lack of heart and energy does reflect on the coach, but it also reflects on the lack of a team leader on the floor. We have none.
 



I've never been a King hater by any means, but man it is obvious in a game like last night how little he brings to the table other than an occasional spot up 3. His minutes have been slowly coming down, and I think that should continue the last few weeks.
 



The moral victory card and "showed great heart" is past it's shelf life. The lack of energy in the building and on the floor by the Gophers was clearly evident. It is becoming harder to say with certainty that Pitino deserves another year. There have been flashes over the first 2 years of what he is trying to accomplished defensively. This year it is hard to see what they are trying to do defensively. What is the identity defensively?

See many post about why they don't they press more. They're confused enough defending in the half court. Would be even more confusing trying to defend 75 or 94 feet.
 

SelectionSunday said:
I would strongly disagree with that assessment. So many possessions where defensively we run around like chickens with our heads cut off.
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We do nothing really well. Murphy stayed out of foul trouble and we still got smoked in the first half.
Michigan passes with a purpose. They were fun to watch on offense. Barn was really empty.....for Michigan.
 

Thanks GopherLady! We aren't as far away as most believe.
 

Blackhammer said:
Thanks GopherLady! We aren't as far away as most believe.
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In baseball there were pitchers like Jack Morris who when the team scored 5 runs he gave up 4. When the team scored 1 run, he gave up 0. He wasn't great, but pitched well enough to win.

On the other side, there are pitchers that give up 2 runs when the team scores 1, and gives up no runs when the team scores 10. Those are guys that pitch well enough to lose.

The Gophers are the latter.
 

beavergopher said:
We do nothing really well. Murphy stayed out of foul trouble and we still got smoked in the first half.
Michigan passes with a purpose. They were fun to watch on offense. Barn was really empty.....for Michigan.
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Agreed...I thought it was the worst atmosphere for a conference game in a long time. It was really empty and quiet for the entirety of the game.
 

scools12 said:
The moral victory card and "showed great heart" is past it's shelf life. The lack of energy in the building and on the floor by the Gophers was clearly evident. It is becoming harder to say with certainty that Pitino deserves another year. There have been flashes over the first 2 years of what he is trying to accomplished defensively. This year it is hard to see what they are trying to do defensively. What is the identity defensively?

See many post about why they don't they press more. They're confused enough defending in the half court. Would be even more confusing trying to defend 75 or 94 feet.
Click to expand...

Michigan's game plan was utterly simple last night. when King played they targeted him on screens and ran their offense his way. Michigans scoring efficiency changed dramatically in the second half when King wasn't in. I mentioned it last night as well... I'm not calling out King, but Pitino needs to be more responsive to the other team's game plan. King hasn't brought enough to the table offensively for him to have played all those first half minutes. I think it finally clicked with coach after King was targeted and scored on in the first three possessions of the second half.

Outside of that, I thought they played pretty good defense. Walton and Robinson just made a lot of shots. That will happen, especially against a team design to hit the three.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

golfing18now said:
Agreed...I thought it was the worst atmosphere for a conference game in a long time. It was really empty and quiet for the entirety of the game.
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Agree. Going to Williams Arena has become like going to a movie theater, and that's certainly understandable. Anyone still attending games should be applauded. I really, really hope we play well and beat Rutgers. If the Gophers don't get off to a good start vs. the Scarlet Knights, I think that's the point where even the most loyal fans at Williams Arena would truly let their displeasure be heard. Going 0 for your first 14 is one thing, losing to Rutgers at home would be at least 3 levels of stink below that.
 

scools12 said:
The moral victory card and "showed great heart" is past it's shelf life. The lack of energy in the building and on the floor by the Gophers was clearly evident. It is becoming harder to say with certainty that Pitino deserves another year. There have been flashes over the first 2 years of what he is trying to accomplished defensively. This year it is hard to see what they are trying to do defensively. What is the identity defensively?

See many post about why they don't they press more. They're confused enough defending in the half court. Would be even more confusing trying to defend 75 or 94 feet.
Click to expand...

At this point, in this season, moral victories are really all you can hope for outside of just not watching at all though. I'm right there with you on the pressing and defense. I was so excited by what Pitino said when he first got here about pressing and causing havoc on defense. Understand it may not work the first few years with other guy's recruits but I was expecting to not only see it more this year but see it work better.
 

I'm certainly not suggesting that King is a great defensive player, but what often gets forgotten is he's frequently forced to try to guard guys that are much bigger and/or athletic than him. He has no business trying to guard A.J. Hammons, for example. But he's forced to play that role because they have so few other options to guard the 4 and 5. He has absolutely made some mental mistakes on defence, but he's definitely not alone in that regard and he's not the biggest culprit. All the King bashing on this site is nauseating, given all the other deficiencies on this team.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Agree. Going to Williams Arena has become like going to a movie theater, and that's certainly understandable. Anyone still attending games should be applauded. I really, really hope we play well and beat Rutgers. If the Gophers don't get off to a good start vs. the Scarlet Knights, I think that's the point where even the most loyal fans at Williams Arena would truly let their displeasure be heard. Going 0 for your first 14 is one thing, losing to Rutgers at home would be at least 3 levels of stink below that.
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I'll keep going to the games because I enjoy the pre-game and the games in general. But in my section people were the most captivated by the Simon Says game at the half. It was actually pretty sad.
 

golfing18now said:
I'll keep going to the games because I enjoy the pre-game and the games in general. But in my section people were the most captivated by the Simon Says game at the half. It was actually pretty sad.
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yep, same with our section.

simon says, look what we've become.
 

golfing18now said:
I'll keep going to the games because I enjoy the pre-game and the games in general. But in my section people were the most captivated by the Simon Says game at the half. It was actually pretty sad.
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My section (or at least the few people around me) liked him as well. He's always a huge hit at the Big Ten Tournament. And dang, I almost got a mini-basketball, but the guy in front of me had great hands, made a tough catch.
 

Go4 said:
yep, same with our section.

simon says, look what we've become.
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Well, the team has one game since November, that is almost impossible to do. Even Rutgers won 3 in December.
 

On a positive note, we are now closer to Opening Day for the Twins (53 days) than the last time the Gophers won a game (57 days). It's all uphill from here!
 

Ewert86PC said:
"It's hard to tell a guy "you're not a great three point shooter"?" Huh? I thought coaches had to deliver difficult messages, especially for the betterment of the team? Either the message is being delivered to subtly, the player is too dense or both. The decision to work on a skill ought to be put in the hands of the player, so he can determine the amount of work he needs to put in to try to fix it. That said this team played much better working to score points inside of ten feet from the basket tonight. Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
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If I had to guess. His point on the shooting may have been you want a guy to be a confident shooter and not get down on himself, especially as he works on his jumper for future games (as guys seemed to do previously, where they were terrified to shoot) but you also want a guy taking the best percentage shot for them (driving).

Basketball is such a game of confidence that it's a fine line between criticism and confidence killing. But FWIW I don't think the Gophers shooting problems stem from confidence. They just aren't good shooters.
 

Last night was a weird game. There were stretches where I thought this team has given up, there's no hope, their lost, Pitino's seat is burning up. And then moments where I thought this team is super hard working, gritty, so much potential, the future is bright. It's not so much about wins and losses anymore for me. But those swings are just confusing and tough to comprehend.
 

I also liked the lineup to close the game. (Mason, Dupree, Morris, Murphy, and Konate) young line up. The offense flows well actually and Morris gets more looks within the offense instead of trying to force it in which cases he can be really effective. And Morris is really the only guy who gets lost off the ball on D, but in man he can be much more engaged and Konate just needs to be tall. It's a decent lineup offensively and having stronger defenders around Morris and Konate makes it easier to hide them as well.

King was flat out exposed on D. Michigan ran the same play over and over again to just score on him. It'd been one thing if he was getting beat on post ups by a guy just much bigger than him. But too often he was getting destroyed trying to cover the roll man. When the Gophers have too many bad defenders out there at once you can tell teams design their offense to target them and put them in tough situations.

There were also times on offense where we'd have little to no motion away from the pick and roll and then times where there'd be beautiful motion all over the court (guess which possessions usually resulted in points?) is really confusing why there can be such disparity in offensive sets.
 

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