Former Badger RB Montee Ball arrested for picking up girlfriend and throwing her

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Spoofin said:
Can't be. No proof CTE even exists.
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Check out the Boston U CTE center web site. The tau protein is found in the brains at autopsy of folks with CTE symptoms. Who have had repeated blows to the head even if they did not suffer severe concussion symptoms.
 

olddoc said:
Check out the Boston U CTE center web site. The tau protein is found in the brains at autopsy of folks with CTE symptoms. Who have had repeated blows to the head even if they did not suffer severe concussion symptoms.
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I don't doubt CTE exists, I question if it's a result of repeated blows to the head.

Here's the problem with that data, it doesn't include the general population. If one were to look for knee replacement amongst athletes only, the conclusion would be sports cause the need for knee replacements. That would be a false conclusion as we know plenty of people who never played sports require knee surgery.

In addition the conversation of should young kids play football is also misleading. Kids get hurt playing football; more kids get hurt playing basketball, twice as many riding bikes. More kids get hurt going to the play ground. One could argue unscientifically more children are harmed long term sitting at home and doing nothing.

Link:
http://www.chw.org/medical-care/sports-medicine/conditions/sports-injury-statistics/

Here is my final issue with CTE. Let's assume it is solely a repeated head trauma issue. The diagnoses is that it occurs over years. They are looking at players that played decades ago under different rules, equipment and medical treatment. CTE may have already been prevented or vastly minimized and the data won't show for decades.


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Sportsfan24 said:
I don't doubt CTE exists, I question if it's a result of repeated blows to the head.

Here's the problem with that data, it doesn't include the general population. If one were to look for knee replacement amongst athletes only, the conclusion would be sports cause the need for knee replacements. That would be a false conclusion as we know plenty of people who never played sports require knee surgery.

In addition the conversation of should young kids play football is also misleading. Kids get hurt playing football; more kids get hurt playing basketball, twice as many riding bikes. More kids get hurt going to the play ground. One could argue unscientifically more children are harmed long term sitting at home and doing nothing.

Link:
http://www.chw.org/medical-care/sports-medicine/conditions/sports-injury-statistics/

Here is my final issue with CTE. Let's assume it is solely a repeated head trauma issue. The diagnoses is that it occurs over years. They are looking at players that played decades ago under different rules, equipment and medical treatment. CTE may have already been prevented or vastly minimized and the data won't show for decades.


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Or the data will remain the same because players will hit harder because the believe the "better" protection will keep them safe. The will still slam their brain into their skull by hitting harder.

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Ewert86PC said:
Or the data will remain the same because players will hit harder because the believe the "better" protection will keep them safe. The will still slam their brain into their skull by hitting harder.

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The "data" as I pointed out is flawed.

But to your point; you do realize there is LESS contact in football than there was 10-40 years ago? Head slapping, spearing, cut blocking, hand checks, area of contact, number of steps prior to contact, launching ect. have all been either implemented, eliminated or reduced. The "data" doesn't consider any of that.




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Spoofin said:
Can't be. No proof CTE even exists.
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What is the incidence rate of the mood, behavior, cognitive, and motor deficits in former athletes? High school, college, pro?

Can these issues in older players be explained by other behavior or problems? For example, starting marijuana use at a younger age is linked to long-term brain damage and significant loss of IQ, schizophrenia, etc.

Believe it or not, but many middle-aged and older individuals complain of CTE-like symptoms and have never had a TBI. Suicide is not rare. Suicide cannot be linked to tau deposits at this time.

Alzheimer's was thought to be a beta-amyloid issue, now a tau issue; but it is all observational correlation. The science is young in this area.

Maybe there really is a high incidence of CTE symptoms in former athletes but that hasnt been shown to be the case. Maybe the prospect of class action money has former players felling a little off.

Hysteria generated by scientifically uninformed spectators is not helpful. The ambulance chasers will try to drive this issue before the science is close to solid.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
What is the incidence rate of the mood, behavior, cognitive, and motor deficits in former athletes? High school, college, pro?

Can these issues in older players be explained by other behavior or problems? For example, starting marijuana use at a younger age is linked to long-term brain damage and significant loss of IQ, schizophrenia, etc.

Believe it or not, but many middle-aged and older individuals complain of CTE-like symptoms and have never had a TBI. Suicide is not rare. Suicide cannot be linked to tau deposits at this time.

Alzheimer's was thought to be a beta-amyloid issue, now a tau issue; but it is all observational correlation. The science is young in this area.

Maybe there really is a high incidence of CTE symptoms in former athletes but that hasnt been shown to be the case. Maybe the prospect of class action money has former players felling a little off.

Hysteria generated by scientifically uninformed spectators is not helpful. The ambulance chasers will try to drive this issue before the science is close to solid.
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Greats points; I too believe former players are jumping into the fray eyeing one last NFL pay day.


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All I am saying is that behaviors may change because of knowing there is more protection.

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Ewert86PC said:
All I am saying is that behaviors may change because of knowing there is more protection.

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I hear what you are saying.....but it doesn't work that way. The big shots players want to take are now outlawed. As time goes on they will disappear from the game. There was a time when defenders head slapped playing the run are pass, today's players wouldn't know where to begin on using that technique.


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To take this issue further, Robert Smith probably wasn't aware of this:


Am J Psychiatry. 2004 Dec;161(12):2295-302.
Suicide rates among physicians: a quantitative and gender assessment (meta-analysis)

RESULTS:
The aggregate suicide rate ratio for male physicians, compared to the general population, was 1.41, with a 95% confidence interval (CI) of 1.21-1.65. For female physicians the ratio was 2.27 (95% CI=1.90-2.73). Visual inspection of funnel plots from tests of publication bias revealed randomness for men but some indication of bias for women, with a relative, nonsignificant lack of studies in the lower right quadrant.
CONCLUSIONS:
Studies on physicians' suicide collectively show modestly (men) to highly (women) elevated suicide rate ratios.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15569903
 

I don't recall this plastered across the media:


Br J Sports Med doi:10.1136/bjsports-2013-092935

Short report
Chronic traumatic encephalopathy and risk of suicide in former athletes

Abstract
Background In the initial autopsy case studies of chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), some researchers have concluded that the proteinopathy associated with CTE is the underlying cause of suicidality and completed suicide in former athletes.

Methods A review of the literature on contact sports and risk of completed suicide revealed only one epidemiological study with direct relevant data.

Results There are no published cross-sectional, epidemiological or prospective studies showing a relation between contact sports and risk of suicide. One published epidemiological study suggests that retired National Football League players have lower rates of death by suicide than the general population. Outside of sports, there is a mature body of evidence suggesting that the causes of suicide are complex, multifactorial and difficult to predict in individual cases.

Conclusions Future research might establish a clear causal connection between the proteinopathy of CTE and suicide. At present, however, there is insufficient scientific evidence to conclude that there is a strong causal relationship between the presence of these proteinopathies and suicide in former athletes. Additional research is needed to determine the extent to which the neuropathology of CTE is a possible mediator or moderator variable associated with suicide.



http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2013/10/31/bjsports-2013-092935
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I don't recall this plastered across the media:


Br J Sports Med doi:10.1136/bjsports-2013-092935

Short report
Chronic traumatic encephalopathy and risk of suicide in former athletes

Abstract
Background In the initial autopsy case studies of chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), some researchers have concluded that the proteinopathy associated with CTE is the underlying cause of suicidality and completed suicide in former athletes.

Methods A review of the literature on contact sports and risk of completed suicide revealed only one epidemiological study with direct relevant data.

Results There are no published cross-sectional, epidemiological or prospective studies showing a relation between contact sports and risk of suicide. One published epidemiological study suggests that retired National Football League players have lower rates of death by suicide than the general population. Outside of sports, there is a mature body of evidence suggesting that the causes of suicide are complex, multifactorial and difficult to predict in individual cases.

Conclusions Future research might establish a clear causal connection between the proteinopathy of CTE and suicide. At present, however, there is insufficient scientific evidence to conclude that there is a strong causal relationship between the presence of these proteinopathies and suicide in former athletes. Additional research is needed to determine the extent to which the neuropathology of CTE is a possible mediator or moderator variable associated with suicide.



http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2013/10/31/bjsports-2013-092935
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But this won't make a great movie or shocking headlines?


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There's no money in it. Sadly, these things can be as simple as that. In my field I have direct and secondary knowledge of plaintiff expert witnesses perjuring themselves with deceptive testimony in malpractice cases. They are immune from lawsuits for deceptive testimony (from the defense). So the money train rolls on. Many live in fear. I would argue it even contributes to depression and suicide. No CTE required.

Count me as cynical. Bring me EVIDENCE.
 



I forgot to add handsomely paid expert witnesses. It's very sad when someone will willingly blow up someone's career and mental health to make a few bucks. Psychopaths abound in the white collar professions.
 

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