Race imbalance persists in college football head coaching

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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per Charles Hallman:

The following numbers aren’t winning lottery numbers: 14, 2, 7, 1. They represent, in order, the college football head coaching openings, the number of Blacks hired to fill them, the number of NFL head coaching vacancies and the number of Blacks hired to fill them.

If this isn’t an unbalanced scale — the annual merry-go-round of firing and hiring, with Blacks as regulars on this ride to nowhere, while Whites get the limousine treatment to head coaching jobs — then it doesn’t snow in Minneapolis in the wintertime.

Sports agent Donald Yee wrote last month in the Washington Post three remedies for the chronic condition of not hiring Black coaches: 1) media, 2) Black coaches, and 3) Black players. This columnist years ago made a similar suggestion.

http://spokesman-recorder.com/2016/01/27/race-imbalance-persists-college-football-head-coaching/

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
per Charles Hallman:

The following numbers aren’t winning lottery numbers: 14, 2, 7, 1. They represent, in order, the college football head coaching openings, the number of Blacks hired to fill them, the number of NFL head coaching vacancies and the number of Blacks hired to fill them.

If this isn’t an unbalanced scale — the annual merry-go-round of firing and hiring, with Blacks as regulars on this ride to nowhere, while Whites get the limousine treatment to head coaching jobs — then it doesn’t snow in Minneapolis in the wintertime.

Sports agent Donald Yee wrote last month in the Washington Post three remedies for the chronic condition of not hiring Black coaches: 1) media, 2) Black coaches, and 3) Black players. This columnist years ago made a similar suggestion.

http://spokesman-recorder.com/2016/01/27/race-imbalance-persists-college-football-head-coaching/

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

I have said this for the last 25 years:

Thirdly, Black players: Why don’t Black players stop playing until change occurs? When Blacks stopped riding segregated city buses, Montgomery city officials, after a year of losing money, did change. When the Black football players at Missouri threatened last fall to stop playing, change occurred when two top school officials resigned.

If these Black players finally realize just how powerful they are, not in brawn but in sheer numbers, and demand that they play only if more Blacks are hired as head coaches, they could elicit change. Even better, as we have often suggested, if more highly recruited Black players take their highly recruited talent from big-time schools to HBCUs, where Black head coaches are the majority, change certainly would occur as a result.

The burning question, however, is how many Black young men would buy into this as opposed to continuing their culturally conditioned ways, falsely believing that a White school is better than a Black one to ascend to the NFL. The best doesn’t necessarily have to be White, and being last shouldn’t have to be Black, either.


Black people own this. I have the same view of Title 9. It's not needed because women can control it by supporting women sports. Black people can mandate hiring black coaches by choosing to only to play for schools who hire black coaches.
 

I'd be curious to know what the percentage of assistant coaches are black. I don't think I am going out on a limb or am being controversial by saying that there are just more whites that are interested in being coaches.

My guess is there is a greater percentage of white coaches (head coaches and assistants) that never played football above high school also.

I'd like to think that in this day and age that ultimately it is about winning and the best coaches will be hired. But I would be naive to say there isn't any racism going on. But it isn't as bad as this guy is making it out to be. Isn't this the same guy who ripped the Twins for getting rid of Span and Revere but failed to mention that Hicks was expected to replace them in CF?
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'd be curious to know what the percentage of assistant coaches are black. I don't think I am going out on a limb or am being controversial by saying that there are just more whites that are interested in being coaches.

My guess is there is a greater percentage of white coaches (head coaches and assistants) that never played football above high school also.

I'd like to think that in this day and age that ultimately it is about winning and the best coaches will be hired. But I would be naive to say there isn't any racism going on. But it isn't as bad as this guy is making it out to be. Isn't this the same guy who ripped the Twins for getting rid of Span and Revere but failed to mention that Hicks was expected to replace them in CF?
Click to expand...

How could you possible arrive at more whites are interested in becoming coaches?
 

Sportsfan24 said:
I have said this for the last 25 years:

Thirdly, Black players: Why don’t Black players stop playing until change occurs? When Blacks stopped riding segregated city buses, Montgomery city officials, after a year of losing money, did change. When the Black football players at Missouri threatened last fall to stop playing, change occurred when two top school officials resigned.

If these Black players finally realize just how powerful they are, not in brawn but in sheer numbers, and demand that they play only if more Blacks are hired as head coaches, they could elicit change. Even better, as we have often suggested, if more highly recruited Black players take their highly recruited talent from big-time schools to HBCUs, where Black head coaches are the majority, change certainly would occur as a result.

The burning question, however, is how many Black young men would buy into this as opposed to continuing their culturally conditioned ways, falsely believing that a White school is better than a Black one to ascend to the NFL. The best doesn’t necessarily have to be White, and being last shouldn’t have to be Black, either.


Black people own this. I have the same view of Title 9. It's not needed because women can control it by supporting women sports. Black people can mandate hiring black coaches by choosing to only to play for schools who hire black coaches.
Click to expand...

This sounds racist to me.
 




GophersInIowa said:
Simply based on the numbers. There are about 6 times more white people than black people in the US.
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I'm sure that was mentioned in the article - probably right after the "14, 2, 7, 1" statement.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Simply based on the numbers. There are about 6 times more white people than black people in the US.
Click to expand...

Dig a little deeper. Blacks are the majority in college football yet we only represent 9% of the coaches.

Just about all college coaches were former players....I don't know of any women[emoji849]


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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14549971/study-nfl-coaching-diversity-crisis

Call it what you want; but it is racism clear as day.


In truth, the problem still exists -- and it might be worse than previously understood. According to new research from professors at Georgetown, George Washington, Emory and Iowa State University, white position coaches and assistants in the NFL are more than twice as likely to be promoted to coordinator than their black counterparts, regardless of their performance, experience or coaching background. One of the study's co-authors, Christopher I. Rider, says he was surprised by the magnitude of the "white coach effect" among aspiring coordinators, who aren't subject to the Rooney Rule. "Just focusing at the top is unlikely to effect much change," says Rider, an assistant professor at Georgetown.

The study's findings are especially stunning because they account for the reasons typically used to justify the race gap. Rider and his co-authors tracked the careers of more than 1,200 NFL coaches between 1985 and 2012 and tested a number of factors to see whether they could explain why white coaches -- who constituted about 72 percent of the pool -- were more likely to climb the ranks. One by one, they ticked through possibilities: the performance of each coach's team or individual unit, his age, his degree and whether he had been part of a championship staff, among other inputs. Because they had so much data, they were able to make apples-to-apples comparisons to see whether the white coach effect disappeared. It did not.
 


Ignatius L Hoops said:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14549971/study-nfl-coaching-diversity-crisis

Call it what you want; but it is racism clear as day.


In truth, the problem still exists -- and it might be worse than previously understood. According to new research from professors at Georgetown, George Washington, Emory and Iowa State University, white position coaches and assistants in the NFL are more than twice as likely to be promoted to coordinator than their black counterparts, regardless of their performance, experience or coaching background. One of the study's co-authors, Christopher I. Rider, says he was surprised by the magnitude of the "white coach effect" among aspiring coordinators, who aren't subject to the Rooney Rule. "Just focusing at the top is unlikely to effect much change," says Rider, an assistant professor at Georgetown.

The study's findings are especially stunning because they account for the reasons typically used to justify the race gap. Rider and his co-authors tracked the careers of more than 1,200 NFL coaches between 1985 and 2012 and tested a number of factors to see whether they could explain why white coaches -- who constituted about 72 percent of the pool -- were more likely to climb the ranks. One by one, they ticked through possibilities: the performance of each coach's team or individual unit, his age, his degree and whether he had been part of a championship staff, among other inputs. Because they had so much data, they were able to make apples-to-apples comparisons to see whether the white coach effect disappeared. It did not.
Click to expand...

Wait...college professors did the study and found racism? No way.

These professors sat in on the interviews and the decision making process? They knew all the factors that went into the decision? Impressive.
 



Ignatius L Hoops said:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14549971/study-nfl-coaching-diversity-crisis

Call it what you want; but it is racism clear as day.


In truth, the problem still exists -- and it might be worse than previously understood. According to new research from professors at Georgetown, George Washington, Emory and Iowa State University, white position coaches and assistants in the NFL are more than twice as likely to be promoted to coordinator than their black counterparts, regardless of their performance, experience or coaching background. One of the study's co-authors, Christopher I. Rider, says he was surprised by the magnitude of the "white coach effect" among aspiring coordinators, who aren't subject to the Rooney Rule. "Just focusing at the top is unlikely to effect much change," says Rider, an assistant professor at Georgetown.

The study's findings are especially stunning because they account for the reasons typically used to justify the race gap. Rider and his co-authors tracked the careers of more than 1,200 NFL coaches between 1985 and 2012 and tested a number of factors to see whether they could explain why white coaches -- who constituted about 72 percent of the pool -- were more likely to climb the ranks. One by one, they ticked through possibilities: the performance of each coach's team or individual unit, his age, his degree and whether he had been part of a championship staff, among other inputs. Because they had so much data, they were able to make apples-to-apples comparisons to see whether the white coach effect disappeared. It did not.
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I think this pretty much ends any argument on this issue. Unless, of course, you're racist.


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leadpipegopher said:
Wait...college professors did the study and found racism? No way.

These professors sat in on the interviews and the decision making process? They knew all the factors that went into the decision? Impressive.
Click to expand...

Ya, it's hard to argue with blatant facts and data.


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Sportsfan24 said:
Dig a little deeper. Blacks are the majority in college football


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Click to expand...

According to this (it is a few years old), that is incorrect: https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Final%2B2012%2BCollege%2BRGRC.pdf

The breakdown for all Division I football student-athletes is as follows: white 46.4 percent, AfricanAmerican
43.2 percent, Latino 2.3 percent, Asian 2.6 percent, and Native American 0.5 percent.
Those describing themselves as “two or more” or “other” were 4.7 percent combined.
Click to expand...

This isn't including Division II and III football players. My guess is there is an even higher percentage of white players at those levels. And you have to include the lower levels because many who played at the lower levels become coaches in Division I. The Gophers have multiple coaches right now who played DII or DIII.

yet we only represent 9% of the coaches.
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I was talking about assistant coaching jobs as well. According to the link provided above (again it is a few years old), a little over 25% of assistant coaches are black in DI. It is much lower in DII and DIII.

I think part of it is because there are more white people applying for these openings. Maybe I'm wrong. I did coach shortly in DII and know a few others who coach in college, and this was my experience.

I'm not denying racism doesn't exist. It still does and it sucks. If you're a good coach, you should get a chance no matter what you look like.
 


I wonder what percentage of college professors, administrators, are black? What percentage of black adults that have a college education compared to whites? Just hire the person that you think will best help your program. No school or any other organization should have to defend their coaching choices based on race.
 

GophersInIowa said:
According to this (it is a few years old), that is incorrect: https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Final%2B2012%2BCollege%2BRGRC.pdf



This isn't including Division II and III football players. My guess is there is an even higher percentage of white players at those levels. And you have to include the lower levels because many who played at the lower levels become coaches in Division I. The Gophers have multiple coaches right now who played DII or DIII.



I was talking about assistant coaching jobs as well. According to the link provided above (again it is a few years old), a little over 25% of assistant coaches are black in DI. It is much lower in DII and DIII.

I think part of it is because there are more white people applying for these openings. Maybe I'm wrong. I did coach shortly in DII and know a few others who coach in college, and this was my experience.

I'm not denying racism doesn't exist. It still does and it sucks. If you're a good coach, you should get a chance no matter what you look like.
Click to expand...

The most current data I found the numbers were 57% blacks at the D1 level, I could find no data since 2010 that says anything differently; blacks are the majority. But cool lets go with your data; the percentages don't match up anywhere close.

Like I said earlier, it's a problem that's self solvable. When you have the option; don't play for schools who won't hire people who look like you....it's that simple.

There may be more whites but not in the hiring pool (entry level). And certainly not to the degree we see at 9%.

I have been around football as well and as players careers come to an end if given the option they want to stay involved. The best way to do that is coaching. The best and quickest way to accomplish this is by becoming a GA. Follow the GA's and that will tell the story.

You made a great point about percentage of position coaches. That just equates to a self fulfilling prophecy; i.e. every level from start (GA) to end (head coach) will be more and more under represented until you get to 9%.

In fairness changes already made today could eventually lead to a reasonable percentage of black head coaches. However it will take a period of years to reflect those changes....assuming they get rid of the AD's who know what a good coach LOOKS like.


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leadpipegopher said:
'Black people can mandate hiring black coaches by choosing to only to play for schools who hire black coaches.'

Stop the hate
Click to expand...

I have no problem living by your definition of hate. I call it self preservation.


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HoustonTXGopher said:
I wonder what percentage of college professors, administrators, are black? What percentage of black adults that have a college education compared to whites? Just hire the person that you think will best help your program. No school or any other organization should have to defend their coaching choices based on race.
Click to expand...

Watch how fast you become a victim and your opinion changes if blacks only committed to schools who hire coaches who look them.


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I don't understand someone who claims racism in coaching hires, yet insists players only commit to those of a certain skin color. Shouldn't you advocate them commit to the best possible coach no matter of skin color. That would only make sense.
 

DLguy said:
I don't understand someone who claims racism in coaching hires, yet insists players only commit to those of a certain skin color. Shouldn't you advocate them commit to the best possible coach no matter of skin color. That would only make sense.
Click to expand...

No it's not racist if you're in the minority. Didn't you go to college? :)
 

DLguy said:
I don't understand someone who claims racism in coaching hires, yet insists players only commit to those of a certain skin color. Shouldn't you advocate them commit to the best possible coach no matter of skin color. That would only make sense.
Click to expand...

Playing for a coach and program that hires people who like them is the best possible coach and program for them; surely you aren't trying to refute that?

First; I'm not interested in putting a label on this. It doesn't warrant one, we control the outcome.

To further confuse you, I would encourage each athlete when asked why he chose a school who has a track record (doesn't have to be a current black coach) of hiring coaches who look like him to state the truth "I chose the best program for me."

If this were to happen programs would continue to hire the most "qualified" person for the job and there would be no need for this discussion.
 

DLguy said:
I don't understand someone who claims racism in coaching hires, yet insists players only commit to those of a certain skin color. Shouldn't you advocate them commit to the best possible coach no matter of skin color. That would only make sense.
Click to expand...

Because it's how the free market works. If grocery store X started only hiring black employees and every white person who applied got turned away and told they weren't good enough, would you keep shopping there? Let's say your son or daughter applied and couldn't even get an interview while a black applicant who had been convicted from stealing at every other job they've had was hired on the spot, would you keep shopping there? Would you keep giving them your hard earned money to stay in business? Heck no, you'd go to grocery store Y up the street and support them for their hiring practices and hope to drive enough business away from store X to force them to change.

Sportsfan is advocating a capitalistic, free market solution to enacting change in the coaching world. Hardly hate or racism.
 

scher215 said:
Because it's how the free market works. If grocery store X started only hiring black employees and every white person who applied got turned away and told they weren't good enough, would you keep shopping there? Let's say your son or daughter applied and couldn't even get an interview while a black applicant who had been convicted from stealing at every other job they've had was hired on the spot, would you keep shopping there? Would you keep giving them your hard earned money to stay in business? Heck no, you'd go to grocery store Y up the street and support them for their hiring practices and hope to drive enough business away from store X to force them to change.

Sportsfan is advocating a capitalistic, free market solution to enacting change in the coaching world. Hardly hate or racism.
Click to expand...

I couldn't have said it better.....and didn't[emoji3]

While I'm hesitant for free market as a solution to solve some/most social ills (people suffer while the market resets itself), this isn't one of them. Young men still get to play football and an education and schools still get to hire whom ever they deem the best candidate.


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Sportsfan24 said:
The most current data I found the numbers were 57% blacks at the D1 level, I could find no data since 2010 that says anything differently; blacks are the majority. But cool lets go with your data; the percentages don't match up anywhere close.

Like I said earlier, it's a problem that's self solvable. When you have the option; don't play for schools who won't hire people who look like you....it's that simple.

There may be more whites but not in the hiring pool (entry level). And certainly not to the degree we see at 9%.

I have been around football as well and as players careers come to an end if given the option they want to stay involved. The best way to do that is coaching. The best and quickest way to accomplish this is by becoming a GA. Follow the GA's and that will tell the story.

You made a great point about percentage of position coaches. That just equates to a self fulfilling prophecy; i.e. every level from start (GA) to end (head coach) will be more and more under represented until you get to 9%.

In fairness changes already made today could eventually lead to a reasonable percentage of black head coaches. However it will take a period of years to reflect those changes....assuming they get rid of the AD's who know what a good coach LOOKS like.


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Click to expand...

So what constitutes ok hiring practices in your mind? The U currently has a white head coach and two white coordinators, should black players be committing to the U of M?

I agree that there is a problem in the system but I also don't think schools should be forced to hire minority coaches just for the sake of hiring minority coaches. They should hire the person they feel is best suited for the job, of course there in lies the problem, how do you prove the motivations an AD had for making a hire?

The other thing that no one in power will say but I absolutely think plays into the problem, is that some AD's may shy away from hiring minority coaches knowing that when the time comes that they need to fire the coach (and nearly every coach regardless of race gets fired these days) they run the risk of being dubbed a racist.
 

scher215 said:
Because it's how the free market works. If grocery store X started only hiring black employees and every white person who applied got turned away and told they weren't good enough, would you keep shopping there? Let's say your son or daughter applied and couldn't even get an interview while a black applicant who had been convicted from stealing at every other job they've had was hired on the spot, would you keep shopping there? Would you keep giving them your hard earned money to stay in business? Heck no, you'd go to grocery store Y up the street and support them for their hiring practices and hope to drive enough business away from store X to force them to change.

Sportsfan is advocating a capitalistic, free market solution to enacting change in the coaching world. Hardly hate or racism.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I don't think this topic is in any way a problem, but to the extent it is, certainly players have the ability to create change. My favorite gophers coach in any sport was Clem Haskins (pure coaching), I don't see racism. I just want to win. I would gladly have a black pres, AD, football and basketball coach if it meant winning. That's what caused the integration of college athletics. Everyone wants to win. Sports is a meritocracy.
 

MNVCGUY said:
So what constitutes ok hiring practices in your mind? The U currently has a white head coach and two white coordinators, should black players be committing to the U of M?

I agree that there is a problem in the system but I also don't think schools should be forced to hire minority coaches just for the sake of hiring minority coaches. They should hire the person they feel is best suited for the job, of course there in lies the problem, how do you prove the motivations an AD had for making a hire?

The other thing that no one in power will say but I absolutely think plays into the problem, is that some AD's may shy away from hiring minority coaches knowing that when the time comes that they need to fire the coach (and nearly every coach regardless of race gets fired these days) they run the risk of being dubbed a racist.
Click to expand...

I can tell you what isn't ok hiring practices (football). 0 head coaches in 100 years, 1 coordinator in 100 years, 1 black AD in 100 years. The U has now moved to hiring coaches who never played college football before hiring a black coach; and I'm sure each and everyone was the best man for the job.

Should black players commit to the U? Does the U hire black people as head coaches (football) and are the players ok with that....it's for them (players) to answer?

AD's motivations? They hire the person they deem best for the job; it's not like the U's AD's have ever made a football hiring mistake? We should continue to trust their impeccable judgment that always lead to the white coach being hired.....see what I did there?

Dubbed a racist for firing a black coach? I believe never hiring a black coach is far worse and suspect than firing one.:cool:
 

But is it all on the U? In the last 3 coaching searches, do you know how many minority coaches the U tried to hire for HC, OC or DC but were turned down or told they weren't interested in the U? And it is funny that you leave out basketball. Probably only because 2 or the last 4 hires were minority coaches. 1 or which was adored by the entire state, but caused his own dismissal. And the 2nd who was adored by the whole state until he went stale and acted like he had no motivation to actually be a coach.
 

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