Time to start looking fora new head coach

Donate To GopherHole
GopherWeatherGuy said:
How else could he have structured the classes better?
Click to expand...

I would say something like:

Year 1: Find the best (immediately eligible) post, wing, and point you can get. Sign them to letters of intent.
Year 2: Find the best (immediately eligible) post, wing, and point you can get. Sign them to letters of intent.
Year 3: Find the best (immediately eligible) post, wing, and point you can get. Sign them to letters of intent.

And so on.
 

bemidjigopher said:
not to mention you seem gloss over the fact that we don't have an AD who can fire him and we won't until this summer when it'll be too late. Iowa had a boss who could fire Licksnuts, Pitino doesn't
Click to expand...

Is this some legislative or administrative black letter rule that you've personally researched? Or, is this just some old wives tale that you're repeating? Personally, I doubt that a black letter rule like that would exist. Absent some rule, if the president wanted him gone, I believe an acting AD would be empowered to do that. And don't tell me that they couldn't hire a new AD because of an existing new coaching contract. ADs are hired under those circumstances all of the time.
 

Firing Pitino would be a freaking disaster. The coaching merry-go-round at the U would just take another turn. I've seen nothing that tells me he cannot coach. The team turns the ball over at a fraction of Tubby's teams did and they and run much better motion. However, they cannot rebound to save their life, and the interior defense is terrible. Those things are going to improve with Reggie Lynch coming in next year. Guarantee it.

The issue now is talent…or lack of it, especially in the junior and senior classes. I like this freshman class and the next years class could be even better. I have no problem with the team losing a crap-load of games this year. Its going to happen and I am not going to stress over it. The young players are going to get better. I think Pitino has the best chance to make the program consistently good over the long run.
 

tmvander said:
The other thing is this.

Pitino is likely fine this year with next year being the make or break season. We will be one of the worst teams in the Big Ten this year. How much do we improve and what keeps his job safe next year? NIT? squeaking into the tourney? What are everyone's thoughts?
Click to expand...

They will be bubble NIT next year, if that is enough to keep the job I have no idea.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I would say something like:

Year 1: Find the best (immediately eligible) post, wing, and point you can get. Sign them to letters of intent.
Year 2: Find the best (immediately eligible) post, wing, and point you can get. Sign them to letters of intent.
Year 3: Find the best (immediately eligible) post, wing, and point you can get. Sign them to letters of intent.

And so on.
Click to expand...

If only Tubby would have listened to this brilliant logic, he'd still be here.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
If only Tubby would have listened to this brilliant logic, he'd still be here.
Click to expand...

Tubby took over a worse program at Texas Tech and is better than us in year 3. So it's working better for him than Pitino.

Aren't you the same poster that thought an 8-4 Claeys should be on the hot seat next year? Yet, you don't think Pitino should be on the hot seat this year? Logical.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I would say something like:

Year 1: Find the best (immediately eligible) post, wing, and point you can get. Sign them to letters of intent.
Year 2: Find the best (immediately eligible) post, wing, and point you can get. Sign them to letters of intent.
Year 3: Find the best (immediately eligible) post, wing, and point you can get. Sign them to letters of intent.

And so on.
Click to expand...

Yep. Agree 100%.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Coaches balance out their classes all of the time.

Are you really arguing that with all of the moving and shaking of scholarships over the last couple years there wasn't another opportunity even things out a bit?
Click to expand...

He was hired late but the addition of Milik Smith and Daquein McNeil provided nothing to the program and the Gophers are paying the price today, it is part of changing coaches and is expected but to follow that up with Lofton and Martin the next year Pitino's roster building ability should be questioned, not sure how anyone can possibly be defending it.
 

I really want him to work out but man this is becoming hard. His teams are like a D1 juco, talent and athleticism but undisciplined and poorly coached. I still hope this **** turns around!
 



I do think that firing him is the wrong thing after this year and wont happen without an ad. But if a 2-16 big ten season happens or close there is nothing wrong with firing a guy after three years. Not mad at Pitino hired to a job way over his head by a guy with an agenda to push his Villa 7 or whatever the hell it is(I have stated then and now 31 year old coaches dont belong in the big ten he got to skip 2-3 steps and 6-8 years). Fact remains in 3 years the program has gotten worse every year, and like stated before no recruit in the country is worth having the wrong coach. He needs to run his stuff all we have heard once he gets his guys we will be ball pressure and pressing. Well the first 9 games speak for themselves seems to be he has abandoned that system even tho he supposedly recruited the athletes to run it, sounds like a certain coach on the fb side of chagning his offense every year. My thoughts are you are going to lose a ton this year, an unprecedenant amount, but run your system or what you told us and lose that way.

Block M said:
Firing Pitino would be a freaking disaster. The coaching merry-go-round at the U would just take another turn. I've seen nothing that tells me he cannot coach. The team turns the ball over at a fraction of Tubby's teams did and they and run much better motion. However, they cannot rebound to save their life, and the interior defense is terrible. Those things are going to improve with Reggie Lynch coming in next year. Guarantee it.

The issue now is talent…or lack of it, especially in the junior and senior classes. I like this freshman class and the next years class could be even better. I have no problem with the team losing a crap-load of games this year. Its going to happen and I am not going to stress over it. The young players are going to get better. I think Pitino has the best chance to make the program consistently good over the long run.
Click to expand...
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Tubby took over a worse program at Texas Tech and is better than us in year 3. So it's working better for him than Pitino.

Aren't you the same poster that thought an 8-4 Claeys should be on the hot seat next year? Yet, you don't think Pitino should be on the hot seat this year? Logical.
Click to expand...

Pitino also was better in years 1 and 2, and could be better in year 4. Fitzgerald and Lynch along with a top 25 recruiting class will help significantly next year. The only thing that does scare me is the lack of defense. Yet the Gophers have only lost one game I expected them to win - USD. I think Pitino should be safe this year, unless he ends up with a historically bad season. I'm with the rest that believe it should be NCAA or bust for him next year.

If you want to bring up Claeys, go back to the football board and read why I believe in that.

jovs said:
He was hired late but the addition of Milik Smith and Daquein McNeil provided nothing to the program and the Gophers are paying the price today, it is part of changing coaches and is expected but to follow that up with Lofton and Martin the next year Pitino's roster building ability should be questioned, not sure how anyone can possibly be defending it.
Click to expand...

So coaches at any school never miss on recruits? Malik was only a 1 year player. If Pitino could have found a better FR at that time, I'm sure he would have done it. McNeil looked like a good player, especially defensively, but how was Pitino supposed to stop him from beating up his gf?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Pitino also was better in years 1 and 2, and could be better in year 4. Fitzgerald and Lynch along with a top 25 recruiting class will help significantly next year. The only thing that does scare me is the lack of defense. Yet the Gophers have only lost one game I expected them to win - USD. I think Pitino should be safe this year, unless he ends up with a historically bad season. I'm with the rest that believe it should be NCAA or bust for him next year.

If you want to bring up Claeys, go back to the football board and read why I believe in that.



So coaches at any school never miss on recruits? Malik was only a 1 year player. If Pitino could have found a better FR at that time, I'm sure he would have done it. McNeil looked like a good player, especially defensively, but how was Pitino supposed to stop him from beating up his gf?
Click to expand...

In year 4, you will settle for barely getting into the tournament? Why settle for mediocrity with basketball but not football? Why are your standards so drastically different when it comes to a particular sport.


For better or worse, whether it's fair or not, coaches do get blamed for how their recruits turn out.

Do you think Tubby gets fired if Devoe Joseph doesn't get caught smoking pot? If Royce White didn't steal jeans? Nope. But the only thing we can judge coaches by is what they actually put on the floor.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
In year 4, you will settle for barely getting into the tournament?

For better or worse, whether it's fair or not, coaches do get blamed for how their recruits turn out.
Click to expand...

Yes, I would settle for that. I'm not a big Pitino fan, but that result would be a dramatic improvement over what will likely be the final result of this season and he would get justifiable credit for that kind turnaround. Personally, I have significant doubts that he achieve that kind of turnaround.

As to the second statement, yes they do and everything (including luck or lack thereof) counts.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
In year 4, you will settle for barely getting into the tournament? Why settle for mediocrity with basketball but not football? Why are your standards so drastically different when it comes to a particular sport.

For better or worse, whether it's fair or not, coaches do get blamed for how their recruits turn out.

Do you think Tubby gets fired if Devoe Joseph doesn't get caught smoking pot? If Royce White didn't steal jeans? Nope. But the only thing we can judge coaches by is what they actually put on the floor.
Click to expand...

It's about the trajectory of the program. Even if the Gophers barely make the tournament next year, it will be with a roster of 1 SR, 2 JRs, and the rest as freshman and sophomores. You don't think that would set up well for a deeper run in 2017-18? Tubby got another 4 years after the Joseph/White misses.

Next year is year 6 for Claeys and the majority of the football staff. If they go ~.500 in the B1G with a weak schedule, I see another step back the following year when Michigan and Michigan St. are back on the schedule.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I would say something like:

Year 1: Find the best (immediately eligible) post, wing, and point you can get. Sign them to letters of intent.
Year 2: Find the best (immediately eligible) post, wing, and point you can get. Sign them to letters of intent.
Year 3: Find the best (immediately eligible) post, wing, and point you can get. Sign them to letters of intent.

And so on.
Click to expand...

Very true about the wing in particular, not many people realize how much Austin helped Richard in his 1st year here. Richard never replaced him.
 

Block M said:
Firing Pitino would be a freaking disaster. The coaching merry-go-round at the U would just take another turn. I've seen nothing that tells me he cannot coach.
Click to expand...

At every school where a coach is on the hot seat, there are people like you who have tremendous apprehension of the unknown. At least half of the time they are wrong. Try adopting Mae West's famous sentiments: "When given the choice between two evils, I always pick the one I haven't tried before." I'm not saying that he should be fired after this year (at least not yet), but if you haven't seen anything that makes you doubt his coaching ability, then you are a person of far more faith than me.
 

Hate it or love it he's a lock to coach through next year. We won't have new AD until July. Too late to bring in new hire.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
Very true about the wing in particular, not many people realize how much Austin helped Richard in his 1st year here. Richard never replaced him.
Click to expand...

He tried to, it didn't work

Let's quit painting pitino as a clueless shmuck. He's made a couple bad decisions or decisions that didn't pan out. Most rosters would look like this if you lost 7 players that were committed or already on scholarship Over the course of 2 years.

He's got a plan to recover. I say wait until we see if he made the same mistakes twice. To fire him over this season would be double jeopardy.
 

Sure would be nice to get minutes out of Jarvis this year, as well. Easy to forget the 4-star local who never got to play.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It's about the trajectory of the program. Even if the Gophers barely make the tournament next year, it will be with a roster of 1 SR, 2 JRs, and the rest as freshman and sophomores. You don't think that would set up well for a deeper run in 2017-18? Tubby got another 4 years after the Joseph/White misses.

Next year is year 6 for Claeys and the majority of the football staff. If they go ~.500 in the B1G with a weak schedule, I see another step back the following year when Michigan and Michigan St. are back on the schedule.
Click to expand...

Royce White and Joseph both would have been playing on Tubby's '12 team, so it was 1 season before Tubby got fired.

To go 8-4, we would have to go 5-4 in the Big 10. We'd be over .500, possibly going to a Jan 1 bowl, and you don't think that's an upward trajectory for a guy in his 1st year as a coach? (If you want to call it a 5th year, that'd be two 8 win, two Jan 1 bowls). That trajectory is going up and it's steep.

Plot out the points of where the Gopher basketball team was and then where they are now and even assume they barely make the tourney next season. Now draw that line graph. Do the same with football pre-Kill and Claeys. Tell me which graph looks more appealing.
 

To me it seems most who want him gone are just folks either mad Tubby was fired or mad Pitino didn't have to "pay his dues"

Pitino coached horribly in the Dakota games. But that's what happens when you have a young coach. He also sold out his first two years trying to win now with the upperclassmen heavy roster he inherited. I get it, but that too was a poor move IMO. I think Kill did the same thing though, burned red shirts and sacrificed depth to win his first couple of years. Now the football team has no depth either. I'd guess it was to help with the facilities upgrade, but pure speculation there.

Anyways. I still feel Pitino over achieved year 1 and under achieved year 2. This year is going about as expected. Hoping for some growth/improvement throughout the year from coach and players.

One thing I really noticed last night that was VERY different from a lot of what I saw from Tubby was every time a guy came out Pitino talked to them, instructed them, and seemed to then encourage them. It was the one thing that made me think he does still have the team on his side.

I loved the lineup of Mason, Dorsey, Murphy, McBrayer, and Konate. They played with a lot of hustle, pressure, and moved the ball really well. Would love to see this lineup used more as well for development.

One thing I do also wonder. Let's say we lose to South Dakota State. But instead of beating Clemson and losing to USD we lose to Clemson and beat USD. Are people feeling differently right now? As much as people want to say how terrible Pitino is. We did just beat an ACC team a little over a week ago.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Royce White and Joseph both would have been playing on Tubby's '12 team, so it was 1 season before Tubby got fired.

To go 8-4, we would have to go 5-4 in the Big 10. We'd be over .500, possibly going to a Jan 1 bowl, and you don't think that's an upward trajectory for a guy in his 1st year as a coach? (If you want to call it a 5th year, that'd be two 8 win, two Jan 1 bowls). That trajectory is going up and it's steep.

Plot out the points of where the Gopher basketball team was and then where they are now and even assume they barely make the tourney next season. Now draw that line graph. Do the same with football pre-Kill and Claeys. Tell me which graph looks more appealing.
Click to expand...

Royce White only played 1 year of college basketball, what makes you think he would have played more than 1 at Minnesota?

5-4 in the B!G won't get the Gophers into a Jan 1 bowl game, they would finish in the middle of the west, based having to lose a number of games to west teams just to get to 4 losses. It will also year 6 not year 5. 8 wins is mediocre, especially against a weak schedule. It still keeps us at least a step behind Iowa and Wisconsin, but apparently the Gophers shouldn't strive to be as good as Iowa or Wisconsin and should be happy with 8-4.
 

I'm not at all pleased with these last two losses, it's simply unacceptable for a Big Ten team to lose to both South Dakota schools at home, back-to-back. That said, I've taken the position all along that Pitino should get 4 years, then make a call on whether he's the right man for the program. The guy just perplexes me; he coached his team to a NIT title in Year 1, he went into the Breslin Center and won against a Final Four team in Year 2, and he had his team looking good against Clemson (admittedly no national power, but a Power 5 team regardless) in Year 3, which give me glimpses of evidence that he can coach. But his teams are wildly inconsistent, following up those strong performances with complete head-scratchers like these last two games where he looks completely over his skis as a coach. With a new AD coming in the Spring and a very good recruiting class, next season is his make or break year. If he doesn't show marked progress, I think he's gone.
 

cjbfbp said:
Is this some legislative or administrative black letter rule that you've personally researched? Or, is this just some old wives tale that you're repeating? Personally, I doubt that a black letter rule like that would exist. Absent some rule, if the president wanted him gone, I believe an acting AD would be empowered to do that. And don't tell me that they couldn't hire a new AD because of an existing new coaching contract. ADs are hired under those circumstances all of the time.
Click to expand...
Get real unless Goetz has the inside track kaler isn't going to let her fire him. A new AD isn't going to want be stuck with a new head coach that they didn't get to pick, he can however fire Pitino after year one. You're argument flawed give it a rest
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Royce White only played 1 year of college basketball, what makes you think he would have played more than 1 at Minnesota?

5-4 in the B!G won't get the Gophers into a Jan 1 bowl game, they would finish in the middle of the west, based having to lose a number of games to west teams just to get to 4 losses. It will also year 6 not year 5. 8 wins is mediocre, especially against a weak schedule. It still keeps us at least a step behind Iowa and Wisconsin, but apparently the Gophers shouldn't strive to be as good as Iowa or Wisconsin and should be happy with 8-4.
Click to expand...

Who knows what Royce would have done? He played for Iowa State in the '12 season, if that season was with the Gophers, things would have been different. You're the one playing the "if only" game. If only Pitino's recruits turned out, he would have looked smart. I'll say it again, you can only judge a coach by what is actually done and who is actually on the court. The "what ifs" are impossible.

I'm not arguing with your standard anymore, I am arguing that it is drastically different between sports.

You have somehow managed to call Claeys 1st year his 6th. Ok. So that's fine, but then he gets all of the accolades that brought the team from Brewster's catastrophe to multiple 8 win seasons. Under this scenario, Pitino's 4th, we've been passed by Iowa and are not even sniffing WI.
 

WOW

Going as expected wow, you expected them to lose to 2 dakota teams and barely beat UNO. I thought I was down on the team at the start of the season.
scher215 said:
To me it seems most who want him gone are just folks either mad Tubby was fired or mad Pitino didn't have to "pay his dues"

Pitino coached horribly in the Dakota games. But that's what happens when you have a young coach. He also sold out his first two years trying to win now with the upperclassmen heavy roster he inherited. I get it, but that too was a poor move IMO. I think Kill did the same thing though, burned red shirts and sacrificed depth to win his first couple of years. Now the football team has no depth either. I'd guess it was to help with the facilities upgrade, but pure speculation there.

Anyways. I still feel Pitino over achieved year 1 and under achieved year 2. This year is going about as expected. Hoping for some growth/improvement throughout the year from coach and players.

One thing I really noticed last night that was VERY different from a lot of what I saw from Tubby was every time a guy came out Pitino talked to them, instructed them, and seemed to then encourage them. It was the one thing that made me think he does still have the team on his side.

I loved the lineup of Mason, Dorsey, Murphy, McBrayer, and Konate. They played with a lot of hustle, pressure, and moved the ball really well. Would love to see this lineup used more as well for development.

One thing I do also wonder. Let's say we lose to South Dakota State. But instead of beating Clemson and losing to USD we lose to Clemson and beat USD. Are people feeling differently right now? As much as people want to say how terrible Pitino is. We did just beat an ACC team a little over a week ago.
Click to expand...
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Who knows what Royce would have done? He played for Iowa State in the '12 season, if that season was with the Gophers, things would have been different. You're the one playing the "if only" game. If only Pitino's recruits turned out, he would have looked smart. I'll say it again, you can only judge a coach by what is actually done and who is actually on the court. The "what ifs" are impossible.

I'm not arguing with your standard anymore, I am arguing that it is drastically different between sports.

You have somehow managed to call Claeys 1st year his 6th. Ok. So that's fine, but then he gets all of the accolades that brought the team from Brewster's catastrophe to multiple 8 win seasons. Under this scenario, Pitino's 4th, we've been passed by Iowa and are not even sniffing WI.
Click to expand...

It's different between the sports because the programs are at different timetables. Next year will be year 4 in basketball and I view football as year 6. Yes Claeys is a part of the 8 win football seasons. 8 wins shouldn't be the ceiling in football, they already accomplished that twice in years 3 and 4.

Barely making the NCAA tournament shouldn't be the ceiling in basketball. They need to make the tournament next year, then should be expected to win games in the tournament the following year. If Pitino falls short of that, then I will change my opinion. Most everyone including me expected this to be a rough year, and to finish outside of any postseason tournaments.
 

rivergopher said:
Going as expected wow, you expected them to lose to 2 dakota teams and barely beat UNO. I thought I was down on the team at the start of the season.
Click to expand...

Going as expected as in we weren't going to be good. As others have said, most doubted we'd make the NIT. This year is about getting the young guys minutes and playing for next year.
 

scher215 said:
Going as expected as in we weren't going to be good. As others have said, most doubted we'd make the NIT. This year is about getting the young guys minutes and playing for next year.
Click to expand...

Correct. It is insane to start discussing looking for a new coach at this point. Last night was horrid as was the previous game. The old guys look fundamentally weak and lacking leadership. The young guys look talented but are making mistakes. They will be good players and a step up from talent of past years. We have another very nice class coming in. Two good recruited classes in a row bodes well for the future. We need to back the coach and the players we have.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom