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People need to realize Pitino went win now for the sake of the Hollins', Mo, and Elliot. He could have scrapped their last years and built for himself.

As a result, this year is rock bottom which the athletic department would have expected. Give him two more and the threads will turn into departure rumor mill threads as we'll be dancing and bringing in good recruiting classes.


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gopherlaney said:
People need to realize Pitino went win now for the sake of the Hollins', Mo, and Elliot. He could have scrapped their last years and built for himself.

As a result, this year is rock bottom which the athletic department would have expected. Give him two more and the threads will turn into departure rumor mill threads as we'll be dancing and bringing in good recruiting classes.


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+1
 

gopherlaney said:
People need to realize Pitino went win now for the sake of the Hollins', Mo, and Elliot. He could have scrapped their last years and built for himself.

As a result, this year is rock bottom which the athletic department would have expected. Give him two more and the threads will turn into departure rumor mill threads as we'll be dancing and bringing in good recruiting classes.


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And yet he didn't win while going "all in."

I am skeptical that he's going to keep bringing in good recruiting classes because there isn't an Amir Coffey perfect high 4-star guy that is a realistic option next year. Plus a smaller class. We'll drop back into the 40s. Now, if he was coaching well I would not care one bit, but I honestly don't expect this recruiting trend to continue. It is dependent on good, but not great legacy-type guys being in our backyard. Not an every year thing.

Back to the original point...you're right that he went all-in for the "now" of 2 years ago, but that was his choice and it didn't bring great returns...now we're paying in year 3 and it may take until year 5 to maybe reap the rewards. That was on Pitino and he deserves the blame/credit that goes along with it.
 

RickDornsby said:
And yet he didn't win while going "all in."

I am skeptical that he's going to keep bringing in good recruiting classes because there isn't an Amir Coffey perfect high 4-star guy that is a realistic option next year. Plus a smaller class. We'll drop back into the 40s. Now, if he was coaching well I would not care one bit, but I honestly don't expect this recruiting trend to continue. It is dependent on good, but not great legacy-type guys being in our backyard. Not an every year thing.

Back to the original point...you're right that he went all-in for the "now" of 2 years ago, but that was his choice and it didn't bring great returns...now we're paying in year 3 and it may take until year 5 to maybe reap the rewards. That was on Pitino and he deserves the blame/credit that goes along with it.
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You're also forgetting that Pitino was in on a number of 4* and 5* recruits from outside of Minnesota the past two years. He didn't end up landing them, but that doesn't mean he won't be able to in the future, especially if they show improvement.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
You're also forgetting that Pitino was in on a number of 4* and 5* recruits from outside of Minnesota the past two years. He didn't end up landing them, but that doesn't mean he won't be able to in the future, especially if they show improvement.
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I'm going to be called a pessimist, but do you really see a coach with a warm seat, mostly older facilities, and possibly a 2-14 BIG record luring in out-of-state 4/5 star players in? Most bigger programs, including us, will get in the top 10, even top 5 for a high 4/5 star guy and not have a chance.

I'm not expecting Pitino or any coach we ever have to routinely get top-20 classes. These types of recruiting classes are just the bonus years where you happen to have a perfect, good kid in your state that isn't a Tyus Jones goner. Think Uthoff in Iowa (I know he went away then transferred back and also was a bit Lower in the * rankings) or Dekker in Wisconsin. Neither of those teams kept the momentum going by bringing in multiple borderline 5-star guys after. However, they hit on the other recruits when they had classes and had good coaches.

We're not going to keep getting top 20 classes. If we had a good coach that was winning anyways, I wouldn't have a care in the world about that. In this case, I feel the only way we win is if Pitino keeps getting players talented enough not to fail, which I don't think he will because they just won't be in our backyard every year. Of course, I'll wait for 10 people to reply with "you never know, maybe he'll get Trent" responses.
 


Also, we joke right now about "phew, at least Coffey, Curry, and Hurt are already signed!" while this current season rots. By the time we're able to show excitement next year, most recruits will already have signed elsewhere if they were honestly waiting around to see if we have something to be optimistic about.
 

RickDornsby said:
Also, we joke right now about "phew, at least Coffey, Curry, and Hurt are already signed!" while this current season rots. By the time we're able to show excitement next year, most recruits will already have signed elsewhere if they were honestly waiting around to see if we have something to be optimistic about.
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As it stands today the Gophers have only 1 scholarship available 2017. Many think it is reserved for Theo John if he wants it. Trent isn't signing here so don't put me in that camp. That makes it virtually impossible to have a top 20 recruiting class, so yes I agree with you that the Gophers will not have a top recruiting class every year.

So then you have to look at the 5 scholarships available in 2018. By that time Pitino will have a chance to show improvement next year, while the new facilities are being built. So based on that, yes I do think it is possible for Pitino to have another big recruiting class IF he proves himself next year, regardless if Minnesota produces 4* or 5* talent that year.
 

RickDornsby said:
Also, we joke right now about "phew, at least Coffey, Curry, and Hurt are already signed!" while this current season rots. By the time we're able to show excitement next year, most recruits will already have signed elsewhere if they were honestly waiting around to see if we have something to be optimistic about.
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Would Mar and John be considered a good class?
 

Your right, Uof M will not be pulling in top 20 classes, the 2016 class is not top 20 either. However, you can be a top 20 program with very good 4 year players and great coaching. I have no idea if Pitino is the right guy but today was the first time i saw his team play almost good enough defense. He will never win here in 90-80 type games. Fans here must demand a NCAA team by next year and one that makes it at least every 3 out of 5 years. why accept mediocre.
 



Sure, he could have a good class in 2018. He could also end up with a mediocre class. By that point, his fate will be sealed. With 5 scholarships open, the next coach could get a good recruiting class, too! We can't just keep waiting around thinking that Pitino has to be the guy because we think he could do it then.

I'm not one looking to can him now, but I'm just saying that Pitino is just as likely as our next hire to get a top 25 class in with 5 scholarships in 2018.
 

GopherOhana said:
Would Mar and John be considered a good class?
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It would be a very nice class, yeah. I'm not a huge fan of Theo John's lofty expectations, but that would be your standard, "pretty good" class that good coaches can work with.

However, there is no Amir Coffey in that and no top 20 expectation. Those are 2 guys on the McBrayer/Mason level of excitement. That is perfectly fine, but I'm just saying this expectation that he's going to reel in a borderline 5-star guy like Coffey every year is not going to last.
 

Our problem in recruiting, not just basketball but football and other sports, is the glacial pace of change from the administration regarding making changes and improvements.

When Tubby arrived in 2007 there was an acknowledgement that our facilities were in need of improvement. I could Tubby becoming more disenchanted and disengaged with the program because he didn't feel supported by the department and the director in getting new facilities.

It took until fall 2013, six years later, to get started on a campaign to build the Athletic Village. Then when it came time to break ground on construction, the ground breaking got pushed back a few weeks because of, in my opinion an unnecessary, obstructionistic EEOC/Title IX investigation by the T&F team.

Why did T&F need to go for a Federal Title IX investigation on the AV? All it did was reinforce the perception that non-revenue producing sports teams like to block the revenue producing sports. It made them seem petty and bitter.

I think the teams that are non-revenue producing can benefit from improvements requested by other programs and be turned in to revenue producers. but continually dragging dirty laundry out of the athletic department for investigation harms all the programs in the athletic department. This just prolongs recruiting impediments to all sports programs, but damages football and basketball (men's and women's) which creates a reductive economy of scale for program funding.


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ethomasp31 said:
Pitino has no chance to match what Tubby did in 6 seasons at the U....that is the problem.
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I understand why many think that and I have my doubts. I think we can someday be a program that consistently finishes above .500 in conference play, something Tubby was never able to do.

Besides that, most of these same pro-Pitino posters on this board were so anti-Tubby his last year it was sickening....and now they are the ones talking patience?!?!?
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What's sickening to me is people who continue to believe that if someone doesn't want Pitino gone this year, then they are somehow "pro-Pitino".

Well that is kind of hard because I look around and see what Collins has done at Northwestern and ALSO what Tubby has done at Texas Tech in the last three seasons. They both have their programs in so much better shape than our program even though they came into situations that were much worse than what Pitino came into at Minnesota.
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I'm not surprised Tubby is doing what he is doing at TT. He did the same thing at Minnesota. The question is, after getting a program back to the middle of the pack, can he take the next step? I have my doubts and that is why I was fine with him getting fired after six seasons.

Then Pitino talks about the challenges of coaching at Minnesota?!?!? He doesn't have half the challenges they have in Lubbock or Northwestern.
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He was asked a question. People being upset at him for that is ridiculous in my opinion. A coach uses a lot of coach speak and people are upset. Then when that same coach is perfectly honest as well, people get upset. Maybe you should come up with guidelines for Pitino so he knows when he should and shouldn't answer questions, and when he should and shouldn't be honest.
 



ethomasp31 said:
I understand we are supposed to have a good class coming in (I heard that this time last year too by the way)....mostly because we got Coffey....but most of the newcomers next year are (Lynch, Hurt and Coffey) Minnesota kids and would probably be going to the U no matter who was coaching. Besides the Big 3, I believe Pitino missed on two Minnesota kids he should have gotten (Macura and Illikainen). I believe if he would have recruited them properly they both would be at Minnesota. I do get your point on Murphy though...I just don't feel one player should be the reason to keep an ineffective coach.
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Of course all this is just your opinion. You're not giving him any credit for landing the MN kids he has but then you're going to criticize him for not signing all the other MN kids. Kinda convenient, don't you think?
 

builtbadgers said:
Your right, Uof M will not be pulling in top 20 classes, the 2016 class is not top 20 either. However, you can be a top 20 program with very good 4 year players and great coaching. I have no idea if Pitino is the right guy but today was the first time i saw his team play almost good enough defense. He will never win here in 90-80 type games. Fans here must demand a NCAA team by next year and one that makes it at least every 3 out of 5 years. why accept mediocre.
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Well it kinda is. 247 sports has it ranked at 19th, Rivals at 24th.
 

Stop feeding these idiots. Half of this thread is "this message is hidden" and half this board for that matter nowadays. A lot of new, always negative, voices. And they say the same **** over and over.
 

I see it as a top 30 class but if it is lets say 19th then a 4th year head coach should get to the NCAA tourney and if your aiming for greatness then Pitino should win the conference by year 6. The poster earlier in the thread hit a homerun in identifying the larger issue. That is how poorly things have been run on the athletic side and as far as i can tell it goes back 50 years. UW was very much like this until they got administration support to hire Pat Richter, a brilliant businessman with a great athletic experience. He got Barry Alvarez, Dick Bennett and the Kohl Center all done in short time with private money. People got sick of losing. Hiring the AD's at the U has been horrible and thus hiring coaches has been worse.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Stop feeding these idiots. Half of this thread is "this message is hidden" and half this board for that matter nowadays. A lot of new, always negative, voices. And they say the same **** over and over.
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Obviously another hidden message for Winasota to not read.

There is a medical term that best describes the Gopher basketball program, metachronous, meaning recurrence of the disease in a new form. We ran off the last two coaches for hardly putting the team into remission. Now, we have a full blown recurrence of a more deadly disease state. And, if this team were a patient, it would be time to consider moving the patient to the hospice unit for the family to prepare for its ultimate demise. We may be delivering the harsh news to some of you, like Winasota, but the reality is that Richard is not the coach that some thought he would be and his record of losing is becoming a major problem financially to the U. Ticket renewal will be down for next season. So will pledges. It is a real big probability that these two factors will become true. And, then where will we be? The experiment with the pedigree should end at seasons end when we can properly bury this horrid chapter.

The 3rd year of a coach in basketball should never be a rebuilding year. Too few players need to be recruited and development time is weeks and not years in basketball.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
FWIW wasn't referring to you, you've been consistent. I'm speaking of those that came out of the woodwork this year, they have an agenda, and that's to stir **** up.

It's one thing to add to the conversation, a completely different one to say the same thing over in over in every thread. We have like 5 identical threads, its downright depressing.
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GH goes through these periods from time to time.
 

I do not buy this as an excuse. Pitino could have built on what Tubby did without mortgaging the future.

Did he recruit McNeil to win right away? Martin? Lofton? Gaston? That doesn't even count Konate, for whom I still have hope.

That's four our of six guys recruited for the future (before this year) who didn't pan out. That's bad regardless of the explanation.

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This forum reminds me of the Republican debates, by the time the election gets here, the survivor will be in tatters. Pitino will be here for another year, deal with it. Get behind him for no other reason than to show new recruits this is a good place to be. If he fails after his big recruiting class, than drop the hammer. There are few guarantees with another coach, unless you need some more 'hope and change'. As a newbee he has no rep with HS coaches as the older guys do, and yet the he gets one of the best recruiting classes in years. The kids like him, follow suit. Save up your venom, and if he fails with talent, we'll run him out of town.
 

JCK said:
This forum reminds me of the Republican debates, by the time the election gets here, the survivor will be in tatters. Pitino will be here for another year, deal with it. Get behind him for no other reason than to show new recruits this is a good place to be. If he fails after his big recruiting class, than drop the hammer. There are few guarantees with another coach, unless you need some more 'hope and change'. As a newbee he has no rep with HS coaches as the older guys do, and yet the he gets one of the best recruiting classes in years. The kids like him, follow suit. Save up your venom, and if he fails with talent, we'll run him out of town.
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+19
 

JCK said:
This forum reminds me of the Republican debates, by the time the election gets here, the survivor will be in tatters. Pitino will be here for another year, deal with it. Get behind him for no other reason than to show new recruits this is a good place to be. If he fails after his big recruiting class, than drop the hammer. There are few guarantees with another coach, unless you need some more 'hope and change'. As a newbee he has no rep with HS coaches as the older guys do, and yet the he gets one of the best recruiting classes in years. The kids like him, follow suit. Save up your venom, and if he fails with talent, we'll run him out of town.
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I can't believe I'm about to write this, but....I agree...finally, huh?!
 

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