PiPress: Departing seniors leaving big hole on offensive line

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So I guess next year will be another rebuilding year. People will say we are young upfront which will explain the poor play by the offense. Next year when we fail to make a bowl game gopherholers will say that they are excited for the next year and so it goes.


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GO4INLALALAND said:
So I guess next year will be another rebuilding year. People will say we are young upfront which will explain the poor play by the offense. Next year when we fail to make a bowl game gopherholers will say that they are excited for the next year and so it goes.


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With our schedule next year if we fail to make a bowl game it will be time to blow the thing up and start over with a new staff.
 

Next year we only return Pirsig and Moore on the o-line. We could be looking at this starting lineup vs. Oregon St.:

LT: Quinn Oseland
LG: Vincent Calhoun
C: Tyler Moore
RG: Connor Mayes
RT: Jonah Pirsig
 

GO4INLALALAND said:
So I guess next year will be another rebuilding year. People will say we are young upfront which will explain the poor play by the offense. Next year when we fail to make a bowl game gopherholers will say that they are excited for the next year and so it goes.


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How does Wisconsin completely dominate the line of scrimmage with 4 freshman starting on the OL, it sure doesn't seem like experience and development have as much to do with it as raw talent. Until that changes the level of experience just isn't going to matter.
 


MNVCGUY said:
With our schedule next year if we fail to make a bowl game it will be time to blow the thing up and start over with a new staff.
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I think that's fair. We need to win at least 8 games next year.
 

jovs said:
How does Wisconsin completely dominate the line of scrimmage with 4 freshman starting on the OL, it sure doesn't seem like experience and development have as much to do with it as raw talent. Until that changes the level of experience just isn't going to matter.
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I knew this game was over when we sent Justin Carr out on the first defensive series. No offense to Mr. Carr, I'm sure he's a great kid and hard worker. But he's a walk-on from Rochester who hasn't really played any (if at all?)
 

jovs said:
How does Wisconsin completely dominate the line of scrimmage with 4 freshman starting on the OL, it sure doesn't seem like experience and development have as much to do with it as raw talent. Until that changes the level of experience just isn't going to matter.
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This Wisconsin's Offensive line is a big difference program wise. Raw talent and development is not near equal. They are putting people in the NFL and there play has been light years ahead of the Gophers for 6 plus seasons now. That is the one glaring area under the Kill regime that has never developed. We have not seen one offensive lineman that is a stand out or drafted type player develop under this staff. There has to be a reason for that, we have not had a good offensive line since the Mason years. Never had a good line under Brewster and so far not very good lines under the Kill regime either. Cobb got most of his yards last year by his play and ability to break tackles and all of the draft geeks and scouts said that.
They kicked our Defensive lines butt today with four freshman. That was supposed to be a weakness and yet they pounded the rock against the Gophers and controlled the game. It all starts up front, it would be nice to see a Gopher offensive line doing that to Wisconsin for a change. Someone asked me before the game why I thought Wisconsin has beaten us the last 11 years before today's game and I gave them two reasons. My first answer was offensive line play pure and simple.
Recruit better talent because of winning and they always have a great offensive line that pushes the Gophers around. Nothing changed this year on that front.
 

jovs said:
How does Wisconsin completely dominate the line of scrimmage with 4 freshman starting on the OL, it sure doesn't seem like experience and development have as much to do with it as raw talent. Until that changes the level of experience just isn't going to matter.
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Raw talent and size. Take a look at the size of those lineman. Then take a look at the size of the Gopher D-line and linebackers. Take a look at the 1st Half Rushing stats for Wisconsin, when the Gophers appeared to be running their standard defense. That half the Badgers got 199 yards on the ground. Look at the second half when they got about 58 yards on the ground. It also appeared that the Gopher defense may have been "stacking-up" a little against the run in that 2nd Half.

The Gopher did something at the half that negated a big chunk of the advantage the Badgers had. Too bad they didn't do it sooner.

Oh, and too bad they kept turning over the damn ball too.
 



GO4INLALALAND said:
So I guess next year will be another rebuilding year. People will say we are young upfront which will explain the poor play by the offense. Next year when we fail to make a bowl game gopherholers will say that they are excited for the next year and so it goes.


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Why are you here? If you don't like then leave. It's really pretty simple.
 

4four4 said:
Why are you here? If you don't like then leave. It's really pretty simple.
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He makes a valid point- we here that same excuse. From this board we only hear you need RS junior and seniors on the line to be good- well we have 7 that at now leaving- so either we couldn't develop them, stay healthy or they were never top level talent
 

Maroon92 said:
He makes a valid point- we here that same excuse. From this board we only hear you need RS junior and seniors on the line to be good- well we have 7 that at now leaving- so either we couldn't develop them, stay healthy or they were never top level talent
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So what? It's a fan forum. Most people say those things because they want to believe it is true. Many people prefer to try to be optimistic even when things are going badly.

Either way, what we say and do here doesn't affect the outcome of games.
 

GophersInIowa said:
So what? It's a fan forum. Most people say those things because they want to believe it is true. Many people prefer to try to be optimistic even when things are going badly.

Either way, what we say and do here doesn't affect the outcome of games.
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Here's to hoping Spring's eternal.
 



jovs said:
How does Wisconsin completely dominate the line of scrimmage with 4 freshman starting on the OL, it sure doesn't seem like experience and development have as much to do with it as raw talent. Until that changes the level of experience just isn't going to matter.
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I think the difference in physical size was telling. You don't need refined technique when you can basically man-up on the guy across from you and simply bowl him over. No need to double anyone frees up the C, TE, and FB to seal off LBs. I'm not downgrading Wisconsin's O-line. Those guys look like they are going to be really good as they develop, but the size difference was so telling yesterday.

I agree with the poster above about the state of our offensive line over the years. Mason had some good lines, but even they were on the small side and when they had to go away from the zone blocking scheme at points in a game and to go strength-on-strength, they often came up short as well. But there's no question we haven't had consistently good lines since Mason left. Don't know if that's recruiting or the fact we don't have a full-time OL coach. I do know that we look neither strong nor fast all too often. Something to think about.
 

One would think that Oline would be one of the easier positions for the Gophers to recruit with amount of big farm kids that I expect we have. Wisconsin and Iowa have been able to do it well and I have always assumed they do it with local kids.
 

Offensive lines are made, not simply assembled.

Any program can have a great o-line.

More than any other unit, they are built by coaching, development and teamwork.

A college o-line is almost always a direct reflection on the staff.

As I've said ten times this week: this team was not prepared for the season on the offensive side of the ball. It crushed our confidence, identity, and health in the first month. We never recovered.
 

I saw something yesterday that I have not seen before. Early in the game when Leidner faced pressure and had to throw while getting hit low (he threw low to an open Maye on a third down slant), he was barking at his offensive line. Leidner endured a lot of hits over this season and I would bet many QBs would not have been able to finish the season behind the patchwork Oline.
 

Maroon92 said:
He makes a valid point- we here that same excuse. From this board we only hear you need RS junior and seniors on the line to be good- well we have 7 that at now leaving- so either we couldn't develop them, stay healthy or they were never top level talent
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Agreed. Many of the seniors were real disappointments this season. I won't miss them like I thought I would at the beginning of the year.
 

4four4 said:
Why are you here? If you don't like then leave. It's really pretty simple.
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Ah yes. The gopher fan who wants to keep his head in the sand and banish anyone who criticizes the coaches. You know, you can be critical of your team and still love them. My criticism is an attempt to make them better. Sorry that offends you.


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Maroon92 said:
He makes a valid point- we here that same excuse. From this board we only hear you need RS junior and seniors on the line to be good- well we have 7 that at now leaving- so either we couldn't develop them, stay healthy or they were never top level talent
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I don't really see how it is an excuse. It's an explanation for why things are they way they are, but it's not an excuse. Every program plays under the same rules with similar struggles.

If we struggle upfront next season, part of the reason will be our inexperience. That isn't an excuse
 

jovs said:
How does Wisconsin completely dominate the line of scrimmage with 4 freshman starting on the OL, it sure doesn't seem like experience and development have as much to do with it as raw talent. Until that changes the level of experience just isn't going to matter.
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John Galt said:
I knew this game was over when we sent Justin Carr out on the first defensive series. No offense to Mr. Carr, I'm sure he's a great kid and hard worker. But he's a walk-on from Rochester who hasn't really played any (if at all?)
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No kidding. Apparently there were some folks not watching the game?

Because of no S Ekpe or Richardson, the Gophers were running out DT's that were about 265-275. Gaelin Elmore was playing DT, Carr, Stelter, Ndondo-Lay... All way, way undersized, I don't care HOW young the Badgers were up front.

The Badgers should have run for 500+ yards yesterday. Gordon would have set a career high against that Gopher defensive front.

Now, to criticize the depth at DT and the overall status of that position, that's absolutely justified. And it's by far and away the biggest area of concern right now. Getting the two injured guys back next year will help but a few younger guys have to step up
 

jovs said:
How does Wisconsin completely dominate the line of scrimmage with 4 freshman starting on the OL, it sure doesn't seem like experience and development have as much to do with it as raw talent. Until that changes the level of experience just isn't going to matter.
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I think that says more about our defensive line than their Oline. They haven't run the ball well at all this year
 


If Richardson and Ekpe were healthy and on the field, its doubtful the Badgers would have so prolific in the first half. They would have somewhat neutralized the Badger bulk.
 

beavergopher said:
Limegrover is not good at either of his jobs.
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Yup. There has not been progress on the offensive side of the ball since Kill has been here. We still only run 6 or 7 different plays. I am sure claeys won't fire Limey, but his duties must change. He, if anyone, is in over his head as oc.


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GO4INLALALAND said:
Yup. There has not been progress on the offensive side of the ball since Kill has been here. We still only run 6 or 7 different plays. I am sure claeys won't fire Limey, but his duties must change. He, if anyone, is in over his head as oc.

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I disagree. I think the pass game has improved significantly since they got here.

We weren't able to run it like Kill wanted to this year, but the fact that we can pass it better should help to balance out the offense a bit.

I think starting next year they need to come out with a more balanced offense. Stop trying to pound it if you don't have the horses. Tweak it to the strengths of your team. I think if they had done that sooner this year we may have had another win or two the first part of the season.
 

minibeaver said:
I disagree. I think the pass game has improved significantly since they got here.

We weren't able to run it like Kill wanted to this year, but the fact that we can pass it better should help to balance out the offense a bit.

I think starting next year they need to come out with a more balanced offense. Stop trying to pound it if you don't have the horses. Tweak it to the strengths of your team. I think if they had done that sooner this year we may have had another win or two the first part of the season.
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I just see a lack of creativity on the offensive side of the ball. Our offense is very predictable because we only run a limited number of plays. Yes, the passing is better, but that is due to ML's improvement rather than the play calling. For whatever reason, Limey has a thing against rb screens, bubble screens, four yard slant routes, i.e. simple plays that can go for long yards. I do not have any faith in limey.
 

I think Limegrover has actually been a decent OC after Kill stepped down. It's pretty obvious who the OC was in all but name prior to that. Not a swipe at Kill, but I don't think I saw Lingen more than 5 yards downfield on a pass pattern while Kill was coaching.
 

GO4INLALALAND said:
I just see a lack of creativity on the offensive side of the ball. Our offense is very predictable because we only run a limited number of plays. Yes, the passing is better, but that is due to ML's improvement rather than the play calling. For whatever reason, Limey has a thing against rb screens, bubble screens, four yard slant routes, i.e. simple plays that can go for long yards. I do not have any faith in limey.
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See I think he has done better the last half of the year, and TBH I expect the offense to be opened up even more next year, due to what 50pound said above. I have always wondered why we don't do more screens and slants, but I do think we will look different next year, and the success of those quick WR tosses they've used this year(not sure what they are called) and other plays of that type will be a bigger part of our offense going forward.
 

GO4INLALALAND said:
I just see a lack of creativity on the offensive side of the ball. Our offense is very predictable because we only run a limited number of plays. Yes, the passing is better, but that is due to ML's improvement rather than the play calling. For whatever reason, Limey has a thing against rb screens, bubble screens, four yard slant routes, i.e. simple plays that can go for long yards. I do not have any faith in limey.
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When you're running double TEs (which we often do), it's really hard to run slants. Too much traffic. I like what I saw of Stills and Lingen showed a lot when given the opportunity. If Snelson is ready, he may be a bigger, stronger, more explosive version of Maye. Wolitarsky is a good possession receiver. We just need one of the Gant, Gentry, Holland trio to take the next step. That should give us a decent set of receivers, but I agree it is going to take a bit of imagination to get the most out of them.
 

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