Tracy Claeys - Errors from IL game . . .

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BilldGopher said:
Here's some gasoline for the 2 pt. conversion discussion.

On his show today Reusse loved it.

Basically called it a "mathematics call" and things will be interesting as long as TC is at the helm with his own personal calculus.

Isaac Newton, move over. There's a new function in town.
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I've heard others question whether he would do the same if playing for West or Big Ten Title. I would.


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Spoofin said:
I have seen it multiple times.
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Well, I'll call BS that. This is not the NFL and it really does not matter to me what goes on in the NFL.

I have never seen a college football running back run the ball over half the football from scrimmage, then take a knee right before the goal line. I have seen Defensive player go down before, but rarely at the goal line.

I saw a player think about it after a long run this year, then his teammate caught him, squashed that dumb idea, and he ran in for the score. I have no doubt that it has happened, but probably 1 RB out of 100 in a CFB game would do what some have suggested was a routine play, especially after busting a 75 yard run.

The fans deserve it, the player deserves it, and the scoreboard looks a lot better for those that only saw the score on TV.
 

In the heat of the moment, you can't expect these young kids to realize they shouldn't score (Brooks) on a long run. Unless specifically instructed not to, but I'm sure none of the coaches even had that in mind because they were 70+ yards away from the end zone. Just like the 4th down play by Illinois. One of the gophers db's intercepted the ball, but it would have been better if he just batted it down because it was already 4th down and we'd get way better field position. But these are still young kids that probably haven't really experienced these situations before. Had the Gophers been faced with 1st and goal, I'm sure the coaches would have said to not score.
 

GOPHER.NATION. said:
In my opinion, there were some crucial mistakes that TC & co made on Saturday. I would enjoy hearing your opinions

End of the First half:

- I am a nitpick on the first. Why was the decision made to spike the ball on first and goal? If we were going to run a sneak the next play, why wouldn't we run the sneak on first down when the defense is scrambling and then call timeout? Spiking the ball takes takes time off the clock and causes a loss of downs.

- On second down, I am not mad at the play call to run the sneak, but rather concerned with how TC handled the aftermath. I believe (Sorry for any inaccuracies on the time. I tried to find the official amount since I didn't have the game recorded to check) there was 16 seconds left in the half at the start of the play. Once the refs whistled the play dead, TC should have been in their ear calling timeout. There was no signal for a TD, which meant the clock would still run. Instead it took him many seconds to start calling timeout. I feel he was even given a gift when they added three seconds back to the clock to make it 8 seconds remaining instead of 5.

End of the Game:

- WHY WOULD YOU GO FOR 2?!?!?!? What would have happened if we didn't convert and Illinois went down to score? Would IL try to tie it or go for the win with a 2 point conversion? Either way, TC should have put the team into a position where the worst case scenario would have been to go into overtime should IL have made a TD and converted on a 2 point conversion. Would you still be happy with TC's decision to go for two? I feel this decision has been greatly overlooked only because we were successful in our two point attempt

- Finally, per Shannon Brook's TD run, I hope TC will teach his players and remind them in similar situations in the future to not score a TD and go down on the 1 yard line.


Also, it was interesting to see people give TC a standing ovation at the start of the game when they announced this game to be his first "official" game as head coach at TCF after the Michigan debacle and three straight losses . . .
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Oh my god. Nice trolling.
 

No one has mentioned the fact that if Brooks simply takes the knee, the Gophers do not cover. I like the W, but lets make sure we cover too. I sure hope Coach Claeys keeps that in mind as well...
 




BilldGopher said:
Here's some gasoline for the 2 pt. conversion discussion.

On his show today Reusse loved it.

Basically called it a "mathematics call" and things will be interesting as long as TC is at the helm with his own personal calculus.

Isaac Newton, move over. There's a new function in town.
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Reusse loves TC. He can do no wrong in his book. I like the choice of TC for coach but whats with Pat.
 

As for Brooks taking the knee...I don't think I've ever seen it.

A similar thing happened during the game that should never be mentioned...Michigan '03. The Gophers needed a long time-consuming drive (late in the 3rd Quarter I think) when QB Abdul Khaliq broke a wide open run from about the Gophers 45 yard line...not dissimilar to what happened with Shannon.

Because Maroney and Barber were already getting 7, 8, 9 yards a carry we needed to slow the game down somehow.

The 7 points from Asad's run were great but by then Michigan had discovered the screen play and the Gophers' defense had no answer. Literally Asad scored too quick.

Not the case here necessarily, but certainly no one in maroon and gold that night would have complained if the QB fell down after 12 yards on that one. We were going to score at some point again.

Hopefully we'll have 30+ games over the next three years to test this one with Mr. Brooks.
 



GOPHER.NATION. said:
- Finally, per Shannon Brook's TD run, I hope TC will teach his players and remind them in similar situations in the future to not score a TD and go down on the 1 yard line.
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I'm...almost speechless. I am almost positive this was a joke but I'm not certain.


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fan of Ray Williams said:
Swear I'm not trying to be contrarian and you and most of the posters watch more football than I do, but have you ever witnessed a running back breaking free like that and taking a knee? Really curious.
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Off the top of my head, I recall Brian Westbrook doing it for the Eagles 5-7 years ago. There are a couple others I cannot recall the specifics of. On the flip side, the Packers let the Broncos score in the final minutes of Super XXXII to get the ball back.

I understand that it's not the players instinct and they surely didn't discuss it with him since they were in their own territory. If they'd been at the Illinois 20, I bet they would have.
 

oak_street1981 said:
Well, I'll call BS that. This is not the NFL and it really does not matter to me what goes on in the NFL.

I have never seen a college football running back run the ball over half the football from scrimmage, then take a knee right before the goal line. I have seen Defensive player go down before, but rarely at the goal line.

I saw a player think about it after a long run this year, then his teammate caught him, squashed that dumb idea, and he ran in for the score. I have no doubt that it has happened, but probably 1 RB out of 100 in a CFB game would do what some have suggested was a routine play, especially after busting a 75 yard run.

The fans deserve it, the player deserves it, and the scoreboard looks a lot better for those that only saw the score on TV.
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Well, you may not care about the NFL, but the question asked if anyone has seen a RB do this before (didn't distinguish league). Don't let facts get in the way of your rant tho.

Next, I call BS on you calling BS as you have "no doubt it has happened".

Next, 1 out of 100 is not zero.

Next, I'm not the only one who has stated they have seen it. Get out your BS rant again.

Finally, I never suggested he should have taken a knee. I don't blame SB27. However, the fact is by scoring he gave IL a chance and if he had taken a knee the game would have been over. I don't have an issue that he scored - good for him - just conversing and stating a fact.
 

Is the drop kick an option then? Or how about a few laterals to take time off the clock on the way to the end zone? I'm glad he scored... and so was 99.99% of the cheering fans around me....

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Sure, if he had stopped before scoring the Gophers could have run the clock out, but I'm not going to criticize him for scoring. "Don't score" just doesn't tend to go through player's minds. I'd hate for a player to avoid scoring when they really should have scored.

As for going for 2, it wasn't an obvious choice, but it at the very least it was a reasonable choice. It ended the game right there.

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Maverick said:
Is the drop kick an option then? Or how about a few laterals to take time off the clock on the way to the end zone? I'm glad he scored... and so was 99.99% of the cheering fans around me....

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To be fair, 99.99% of the Iowa fans around me in IA City cheered when IA's RB scored the late touchdown in a similar situation. He could have fallen down and they could have run out the clock. However, after our D1 QB led us down the field and we lined up for an onside kick that would have given us a chance most around me talked about how he shouldn't have scored. Of course they cheered at the time - who wouldn't? And in IA's case the TD made it a 2-score difference where as that didn't happen on Saturday until after the 2-Pts.

Again, I'm glad SB27 scored, but the crowd that talks about the very idea of not scoring on that play as ludicrous and uninformed is just wrong. Fact is there would have been a very good reason to not score - 80 seconds is a lot of time in CFB when on D. Not so much when you are in victory formation and the other team is out of TOs.
 

UST_Gopher said:
No one has mentioned the fact that if Brooks simply takes the knee, the Gophers do not cover. I like the W, but lets make sure we cover too. I sure hope Coach Claeys keeps that in mind as well...
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I assume that's a joke, but if Tracy Claeys ever makes a decision based on covering a point spread, he needs to be fired immediately.
 

BilldGopher said:
As for Brooks taking the knee...I don't think I've ever seen it.

A similar thing happened during the game that should never be mentioned...Michigan '03. The Gophers needed a long time-consuming drive (late in the 3rd Quarter I think) when QB Abdul Khaliq broke a wide open run from about the Gophers 45 yard line...not dissimilar to what happened with Shannon.
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This is a very different situation. The ONLY time a player should intentionally go down when he could take the ball all the way for a TD is when his team could run out the clock by just taking a knee. That was the situation in this past weekend's case. If Brooks goes down, the game is over and the Gophers win. Because he didn't, we ran a 50/50 play to put the game away and if we hadn't gotten it, Illinois had a great shot at tying the game and sending it to OT or winning it outright. Our defense was on the ropes.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Going for two was the wrong call.

Obviously, if it pans out, it works (like every call in the history of coaching).

However, if we don't get the two point conversion and Illinois is down 7. . . ugh. Awful call. Illinois could either go for 1 and send it to OT or have a chance to WIN THE GAME. Make Illinois go for 2, for the tie. It's a pretty easy call. It's concerning, to me, that he went the other route.
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The second he scored I turned to the guy next to me and said you go for two, no brainer.
 

I think an interesting way to look at it is from the opposite perspective....

If you were an Illinois fan, would you want the Gophers to go for 2 or just kick the PAT? Clearly, you want the Gophers to kick.

If you were an Illinois coach, would you want the Gophers to go for 2 or just kick the PAT?

I personally loved the call, for the same reason that TC said: if Illinois scores a TD, they're most likely kicking the PAT.

I do wonder if a small part of it also was to bait IL & see if they would use up their last timeout. If they would have, I do think TC probably would have then kicked the PAT.
 

I'm with many people in this thread, that cannot be mad at SB27 for scoring in that situation, but feel it's clearly the smart decision to fall down once he got the first down. If he had went down, all it would take is a few kneels to end the game. Conversely, let's say for arguments sake that the Gophers then kick the PAT, and go ahead by 8. The Illini then have a decent chance to go down the field and score to tie the game. It really come down to percentages of which is more likely to happen.

1) The SB27 falls down, Gophers attempt to kneel, and fumbled the ball. Illinois recovers the ball, and goes on to score to win the game. 0.1% chance?

2) SB27 scores, the Gophers go ahead by 8. Illinois goes down the field and scores both the TD and 2PC in 1:20. What would most mark that as? 25% chance of happening? 50%?

Either way, I think it's clear that fumbling a snap, Illinois recovering it, AND them proceeding to score are far less likely then Illinois just marching down the field and scoring in 1:20.

Of course none of this matters as the Gophers thankfully converted the 2PC and all but ended the game right there. We can get into a whole separate discussion on whether or not going for two is the right decision as well.

I'm glad the Gophers ended up winning the game, and don't mean for this to come across as "complaining". Just adding to the conversation. Better to be having a discussion about how many points to score, instead of how can we get in the endzone more!!
 

BilldGopher said:
A similar thing happened during the game that should never be mentioned...Michigan '03. The Gophers needed a long time-consuming drive (late in the 3rd Quarter I think) when QB Abdul Khaliq broke a wide open run from about the Gophers 45 yard line...not dissimilar to what happened with Shannon.
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Actually very dissimilar. Khaliq's TD run occurred with more than 10 minutes remaining in the 4th quarter. Not even close to anything in the ballpark of Brooks' run
 

PMWinSTP said:
The second he scored I turned to the guy next to me and said you go for two, no brainer.
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I understand that other people erroneously feel like that was not an awful call. However, it was. Mathematically, it makes no sense. Strategically, it makes absolutely no sense.

Another poster had a long post about how it made sense at that time, it did not.

You make them have to go for 2, for the tie. It's an absolute no-brainer. If it didn't work out, it would have been as stupid as the Michigan play.

*note, I like Claeys, it was just a putrid call.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I understand that other people erroneously feel like that was not an awful call. However, it was. Mathematically, it makes no sense. Strategically, it makes absolutely no sense.

Another poster had a long post about how it made sense at that time, it did not.

You make them have to go for 2, for the tie. It's an absolute no-brainer. If it didn't work out, it would have been as stupid as the Michigan play.

*note, I like Claeys, it was just a putrid call.
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I want a coach who wants to make gutsy calls like this. Going for 2 does not lose the game for MN and still gives the Gophers outs to win (not a "putrid" call). Going for 2 DOES get the offense jacked up to put the game away, it gives the players confidence in their coach because he has put faith in them, which helps you win games in the future.

Too many old Gopher fans with PTSD of past blown leads. We as fans need to change our mindset and be excited for gutsy and aggressive play-calling.
 

As a coach I liked the call to go for 2 in this game and situation. Your defense had been struggling to stop Illinois consistently and you need 3 yards to put away the game on offense and not have to worry about your defense making another stop. Normally I would agree with just kick the XP and make Illinois get a TD and the 2 but with the injury situation and a defense who had been struggling a bit I liked the call to let the offense try to finish the game.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I understand that other people erroneously feel like that was not an awful call. However, it was. Mathematically, it makes no sense. Strategically, it makes absolutely no sense.

Another poster had a long post about how it made sense at that time, it did not.

You make them have to go for 2, for the tie. It's an absolute no-brainer. If it didn't work out, it would have been as stupid as the Michigan play.

*note, I like Claeys, it was just a putrid call.
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Yet you offer up no reason what so ever, so inform us why was it a stupid call. Why is it stupid to put your opponent away. If you can stomp on their throat, you stomp on their throat, don't let them off the Mat. It also shows confidence that the D isn't going to give up a touchdown by saying if it doesn't work I still think you can keep them out of the end zone, if you don't believe in your team you play it safe and kick the PAT, I'll never criticize a coach for playing to win. Didn't when we lost to Michigan, not going to start now when we were successful.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I understand that other people erroneously feel like that was not an awful call. However, it was. Mathematically, it makes no sense. Strategically, it makes absolutely no sense.

Another poster had a long post about how it made sense at that time, it did not.

You make them have to go for 2, for the tie. It's an absolute no-brainer. If it didn't work out, it would have been as stupid as the Michigan play.

*note, I like Claeys, it was just a putrid call.
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Agree, as I outlined why yesterday. If Minnesota fails, then Illinois ties it and wins in overtime, or wins it outright in regulation, Claeys would be getting ripped by everyone the last three days.

Goldy Gopher said:
As a coach I liked the call to go for 2 in this game and situation. Your defense had been struggling to stop Illinois consistently and you need 3 yards to put away the game on offense and not have to worry about your defense making another stop. Normally I would agree with just kick the XP and make Illinois get a TD and the 2 but with the injury situation and a defense who had been struggling a bit I liked the call to let the offense try to finish the game.
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I think the D being tired has been vastly overstated. Illinois had a couple of 4 min drives in the the 4th quarter. Not 8-9 minute drives. Illinois also only scored 10 points in the second half, fewer than they had in the first half. It's not like they were running up and down the field scoring every possession.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I understand that other people erroneously feel like that was not an awful call. However, it was. Mathematically, it makes no sense. Strategically, it makes absolutely no sense.

Another poster had a long post about how it made sense at that time, it did not.

You make them have to go for 2, for the tie. It's an absolute no-brainer. If it didn't work out, it would have been as stupid as the Michigan play.

*note, I like Claeys, it was just a putrid call.
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Illinois moved the ball well on us all game, but that final drive they sputtered (even before the TO). I think it's mainly because they knew they needed to score, get an onside kick, and score again in a minute and a half. It's a different game if they need one score to tie. And if they march the whole field in a minute to score, what is your confidence that we stop the two pointer? What's your confidence we win in OT after that deflating scenario to tie?
The safe, coaching criticism free decision is to kick the PAT. Frankly, I LOVE the coach who makes the call that opens up the critics. I'm tired of the safe coaching decision that is done to avoid criticism. It ended the game. The other options don't end the game, they give Illinois a pretty decent chance to tie.
 

Section2 said:
Illinois moved the ball well on us all game, but that final drive they sputtered (even before the TO). I think it's mainly because they knew they needed to score, get an onside kick, and score again in a minute and a half. It's a different game if they need one score to tie. And if they march the whole field in a minute to score, what is your confidence that we stop the two pointer? What's your confidence we win in OT after that deflating scenario to tie?
The safe, coaching criticism free decision is to kick the PAT. Frankly, I LOVE the coach who makes the call that opens up the critics. I'm tired of the safe coaching decision that is done to avoid criticism. It ended the game. The other options don't end the game, they give Illinois a pretty decent chance to tie.
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I agree with you - personally, as a coach, I would have kicked the XP in this situation, so in a sense, I disagree with the call. However, I love having a coach with the guts to make a call like that.
 

If a guy like Mike Leach or Chip Kelly chooses to go for two in that situation, ESPN devotes a 30-minute special to the decision.
 

Bitch about not aggressive enough. Bitch about being too aggressive. Bet your psychiatrists love you guys for patients. Never happy. I love the aggressiveness of Coach Claeys and I think he sent a big signal to the rest of the BIG with that choice too.... Look out, the Golden Gophers are coming to win and you won't stand in our way!!! Go Gophers!

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