Judd Zulgad: There is only one person to blame for Gophers QB mess: Jerry Kill

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Spoofin said:
Let's all stop this crap. There aren't a many JuCo/Grad Transfers to be had. Every time someone spews this line they look silly. Getting a Russell Wilson that way is equivalent to getting a JT Barrett in recruiting. There are only a few elite ones and they ain't coming here.
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You miss the point. We arent asking for Russell Wilson. Yes, not a ton of those walking around. We are asking for an improvement over what we have. Can't be hard to find.
 

John Galt said:
I always liked Nelson far better than Mitch and thought people were crazy for not giving him a longer leash. The ideal situation would have been that Nelson improved and was a senior this year and Mitch was a back-up who had played sparingly. It doesn't really matter though since Nelson wouldn't have been here due to his own actions.
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Who knows, if Nelson is still in school at the U, he might have been in Mpls instead of Mankato that night.
 

I would have rather had Kill put Croft in for Ohio as well, for the same reasons as stated in the article, if he is going to play get him in ASAP.

At the same time if this team had not hit injuries we likely would be in a different spot, and none of this would have been an issue.

We get the hint of a year without marked progress and Judd does his own pouting :p
 

Spoofin said:
Let's all stop this crap. There aren't a many JuCo/Grad Transfers to be had. Every time someone spews this line they look silly. Getting a Russell Wilson that way is equivalent to getting a JT Barrett in recruiting. There are only a few elite ones and they ain't coming here.
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Travis Cole was not a highly regarded prospect. That same type of player would be a huge improvement for us right now.
 

Replacement Gopher said:
You miss the point. We arent asking for Russell Wilson. Yes, not a ton of those walking around. We are asking for an improvement over what we have. Can't be hard to find.
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Russell Wilson was a bad example - although when most rubes on here want a Grad Transfer QB, that is what they expect.

I'll try my point again - JuCo/Grad transfer QBs that are any good are a rarity to say the least. Sure you can find an example to support an argument, but the "how could we not get a JuCo transfer" cry is the most pathetic of all. How many QBs in a P5 conference or even in D1 this year are JuCo or Grad transfers from the last year? Finding one worth a crap is virtually impossible - and the sure fire ones go to FSU. Again, I'd rather play Croft.
 


nah, jerry and the staff possibly beat the bushes for another qb but didn't sign one for many reasons. but going forward fans won't eat up the leadership/strong summer spew.
 

The differences between our defense and offense are monumental, beside the fact that one is very good and one is very bad.

On defense Claeys has a plan and has gone after players who can execute that plan. He also has position coaches that can teach what is needed to execute that plan.

On offense we have not demonstrated that we have any plan at all. Therefore we don't seem to have recruited or developed a roster of players that can execute a plan that doesn't exist. The responsibility for this rests with Limegrover the blame is Kills. To make things worse, in addition to functioning as the OC, Mr. L is also the O line coach. The O line that is unquestionably the worst piece of a bad offense. The worst part of our O line issue, injuries, seems to have happened as much in practice, as in games. What is going on?

Now we have burned a red shirt. The plan is now, I guess, to stick a 200 pound unprepared true freshman into a brutal schedule behind a busted up O line. A freshman, I think I recall, that did not play all that much in high school. Someone please explain to me how this might possibly turn out well?
 

Our power run blocking is getting blown back as there is no threat of a pass. Teams are teeing off. We have no response with any passing over the middle of the field.

I agree with so many that we seem to have no identity. Every series is like a new offense stepping on the field with personnel and game plan.

At this point go total youth movement and rise and fall with the future.
 

Getting pretty tired of all the "negative Nancys" around here today. Haven't you been reading Gopher Hole since the Colorado State game? Just remember, once the Non-Conference Games are over that Offense will open-up and cruise to the tOSU game. Many have mentioned that Coach Kill and Company only show enough of the Offense to win, they're not interested in scoring too much.

Now when does that Big Ten Season begin again?
 



ncgo4 said:
The differences between our defense and offense are monumental, beside the fact that one is very good and one is very bad.

On defense Claeys has a plan and has gone after players who can execute that plan. He also has position coaches that can teach what is needed to execute that plan.

On offense we have not demonstrated that we have any plan at all. Therefore we don't seem to have recruited or developed a roster of players that can execute a plan that doesn't exist. The responsibility for this rests with Limegrover the blame is Kills. To make things worse, in addition to functioning as the OC, Mr. L is also the O line coach. The O line that is unquestionably the worst piece of a bad offense. The worst part of our O line issue, injuries, seems to have happened as much in practice, as in games. What is going on?

Now we have burned a red shirt. The plan is now, I guess, to stick a 200 pound unprepared true freshman into a brutal schedule behind a busted up O line. A freshman, I think I recall, that did not play all that much in high school. Someone please explain to me how this might possibly turn out well?
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Yeah, that isn't correct. He played in 22 games as a junior and senior, passing for nearly 4,000 yards combined and rushed for over 1,500 yards. Combined to pass and run for 59 TDs as well.
 

So many questions...but some of the most alarming ones to me: Offense: We move the ball to start the game with 3 first downs...it's 4th and 3 at the 40 and we punt...we have run for 4 yards, 11 yards, and 7 yards on the drive...NW has a really good defense and we are moving...why punt? We gained 20 yards of field position.
The score is 3 to 0. We drive the ball on our second possession to the 31 and it is 4th and 7 and we pass? Why wouldn't we attempt the field goal? We have one of the strongest kickers anywhere.

The most alarming thing to me is our defense. NW goes 14 plays and 76 yards to start the game. Yes, they got a penalty and we held them to a field goal.
What could you always count on with the Gophers for the last few years? They go in at half time and they make adjustments to shut people down. Today NW starts the second half with a 19 (nineteen) play drive that takes 8:47 off the clock in a quarter we have the wind. Yes, we held them to a field goal but...
Then on their next possession NW goes 6 plays 68 yards and a touchdown. That's not what I would expect from a top defense to start the second half. I can see them getting worn down but not to start the half.

I know the stats for the two quarterbacks are similar but the eye test is not similar. Croft, looks and throws like a quarterback. How do you watch the two guys and wait until the 5th game of the season to give Croft playing time? Just explain to Mitch we need to develop a backup, so Croft is going to get a series today...if not in game one absolutely in game 2 versus all the mind games. And see what happens...but why wait until game 5? Jerry knew he was going to burn the redshirt...it's his m.o.

Stop the threats...Ball security equals job security. Nugget is buried. To keep your word is Leidner now too? Berkley too? Is that Jeff Jones problem? Why wasn't James? etc etc So if both Smith and Brooks fumble....then what? There are much better ways to emphasize things than threats. Who had more fun today...NW or MN? If I was Beth (who doesn't have the authority to fire me) I'd make a 3 minute video of NW dancing on the sideline all game long. Contrast it with our guys moping around all day and ask why nobody is having any fun? Football (any sport) has to be fun...we are not having any...we play with no emotion...they are all playing tight because of the mind games, threats, comments and actions that show the coaches have no "real" confidence in them. We do not execute! That's coaching.
 

60's Guy said:
So many questions...but some of the most alarming ones to me: Offense: We move the ball to start the game with 3 first downs...it's 4th and 3 at the 40 and we punt...we have run for 4 yards, 11 yards, and 7 yards on the drive...NW has a really good defense and we are moving...why punt? We gained 20 yards of field position.
The score is 3 to 0. We drive the ball on our second possession to the 31 and it is 4th and 7 and we pass? Why wouldn't we attempt the field goal? We have one of the strongest kickers anywhere.

The most alarming thing to me is our defense. NW goes 14 plays and 76 yards to start the game. Yes, they got a penalty and we held them to a field goal.
What could you always count on with the Gophers for the last few years? They go in at half time and they make adjustments to shut people down. Today NW starts the second half with a 19 (nineteen) play drive that takes 8:47 off the clock in a quarter we have the wind. Yes, we held them to a field goal but...
Then on their next possession NW goes 6 plays 68 yards and a touchdown. That's not what I would expect from a top defense to start the second half. I can see them getting worn down but not to start the half.

I know the stats for the two quarterbacks are similar but the eye test is not similar. Croft, looks and throws like a quarterback. How do you watch the two guys and wait until the 5th game of the season to give Croft playing time? Just explain to Mitch we need to develop a backup, so Croft is going to get a series today...if not in game one absolutely in game 2 versus all the mind games. And see what happens...but why wait until game 5? Jerry knew he was going to burn the redshirt...it's his m.o.

Stop the threats...Ball security equals job security. Nugget is buried. To keep your word is Leidner now too? Berkley too? Is that Jeff Jones problem? Why wasn't James? etc etc So if both Smith and Brooks fumble....then what? There are much better ways to emphasize things than threats. Who had more fun today...NW or MN? If I was Beth (who doesn't have the authority to fire me) I'd make a 3 minute video of NW dancing on the sideline all game long. Contrast it with our guys moping around all day and ask why nobody is having any fun? Football (any sport) has to be fun...we are not having any...we play with no emotion...they are all playing tight because of the mind games, threats, comments and actions that show the coaches have no "real" confidence in them. We do not execute! That's coaching.
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The continual muzzling of any semblance of aggressiveness by the offense is a mistake. Jerry likes to talk about confidence etc but he kicks the QB and the offense in the balls every time he takes a knee at the end of halves, goes turtle behind our 25 yard line, and generally prevents the QB (apparently) from taking advantage of defenses that sell out to stop the run. The unspoken message is "you stink and I don't trust you".

He needs to let the kids play. You need to let them try. They need game reps to build real confidence You need to work on a passing game to have success at it. The non con game plans we've seen every year are atrocious. The QBs are thinking way too much. Mitch has played tight just about every game until they allow the hurry up. Something is amiss, and it starts at the top.
 

Spoofin said:
Russell Wilson was a bad example - although when most rubes on here want a Grad Transfer QB, that is what they expect.

I'll try my point again - JuCo/Grad transfer QBs that are any good are a rarity to say the least. Sure you can find an example to support an argument, but the "how could we not get a JuCo transfer" cry is the most pathetic of all. How many QBs in a P5 conference or even in D1 this year are JuCo or Grad transfers from the last year? Finding one worth a crap is virtually impossible - and the sure fire ones go to FSU. Again, I'd rather play Croft.
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At least three in the Big Ten alone. I'm going to ask that you start going these things yourself.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...seminoles-top-10-transfer-quarterbacks-061915

Just needed to find someone to provide comp and/or act as injury insurance and we didn't.
 




Replacement Gopher said:
At least three in the Big Ten alone. I'm going to ask that you start going these things yourself.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...seminoles-top-10-transfer-quarterbacks-061915

Just needed to find someone to provide comp and/or act as injury insurance and we didn't.
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Oh. Ok. I still don't think it is as easy as you make it sound, but I can't disagree that even someone like a Rudock would have been incredibly valuable this year. Fair enough.

LesBolstad said:
Spoofin has been boxed.
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Ha. Seems so. I'll be OK.
 

Our offensive line is bad and it's not just injuries. To me that is almost as bad a failure on Kill's part as the QB situation. We have not recruited and or developed lineman. If we are using say Wisconsin's offensive as a blueprint these second rate lineman for a power running game won't cut it.
 

Blackhammer said:
Our offensive line is bad and it's not just injuries. To me that is almost as bad a failure on Kill's part as the QB situation. We have not recruited and or developed lineman. If we are using say Wisconsin's offensive as a blueprint these second rate lineman for a power running game won't cut it.
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I agree the OL is bad. The surprising part to me is that I didn't see it coming. I thought they were going to be pretty good this year.
 

Sparlimb said:
Well I'd argue David Cobb and Maxx Williams had a lot more to do with 5-3 than Mitch. So did our defense. But you can't argue, he was the starter and we went 5-3. Right back to Mase territory.
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+1
 

Spoofin said:
I agree the OL is bad. The surprising part to me is that I didn't see it coming. I thought they were going to be pretty good this year.
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A healthy Lauer - Christenson - Bobek - Campion - Pirsig line could have been pretty good. I know people don't like the injury excuse, but the injuries and shuffling up front has been a killer. It's not the only problem and there are ways to overcome it, but this is our single biggest issue IMO. Not the QB and not the play caller.
 

I guess I'm in the minority, but I think this is a pretty clueless article from Judd. Yep, we should all feel sorry for Mitch, who was the QB on a 5-3 B1G team last year, for being expected to take the reigns of a major college offense. Ridiculous hyperbole.

And can we talk about this quote: "There was no reason not to get Croft experience in the Kent St. and Ohio games." For one thing, Mitch played well vs. Ohio. And, generally, it's a pretty strange argument to complain about how the QB position has been mismanaged, demand that the true FR who's likely not ready get put in, and then complain about throwing said true FR to the wolves when he does get in. There was a very good reason to not get Croft experience in those games. It's called a redshirt. Now that it's gone, there's no reason to switch back to Leidner (outside of injury).

Leidner's not a great college QB. But, across the entire landscape of major college football, Mitch has a lot of contemporaries. There's a lot of QBs in major programs--some of them successful programs--who are just as bad as Mitch. I'd put him in the same tier as Maty Mauk, Austin Appleby/Blough, Jake Rudock (that coveted grad transfer), Clayton Thorson, Brendon Harris, Christian Hackenburg, Wes Lunt, Lamar Jackson. Not great company by any means, but there are some QBs of winning teams, and QBs with much better reputations, on that list. If you think Leidner is noticeably bad in the entire landscape of CFB, you don't watch a lot of college football. (I can say confidently that Judd doesn't watch a lot of college football.) To be fair, Leidner played a truly awful game against NW.

I'm in the camp that puts the most blame on Limegrover. I think he's terrible. And he has proven incapable of consistently putting Leidner in the best position to be successful. Maybe Leidner can't run what Limegrover really wants, and he can't adapt well enough. That's why I'm on board the Croft train now. I'm hopeful (but not confident) that Limegrover can develop a better scheme with Croft than he could with Leidner.
 

leidner apologists --- just give it up. his reign of horribly thrown balls is over.
 

SonOfTheVarsity said:
Leidner's not a great college QB. But, across the entire landscape of major college football, Mitch has a lot of contemporaries. There's a lot of QBs in major programs--some of them successful programs--who are just as bad as Mitch. I'd put him in the same tier as Maty Mauk, Austin Appleby/Blough, Jake Rudock (that coveted grad transfer), Clayton Thorson, Brendon Harris, Christian Hackenburg, Wes Lunt, Lamar Jackson.
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Although I agree with some points made in your post, you've gone too far here. I've always pulled for Leidner but it has been obvious this year that he isn't consistent enough, talented enough, or mentally suited to being the QB of a power conference team when so much of the offense depends upon him. I'll just take two names from the list above - Thorson and Hackenburg. Thorson is a freshman who showed more poise in a big game than Liedner did as a third year player. Hackenburg was thrown to the wolves on a probation depleted PSU team as a freshman and he has faced far more serious protection issues than Leidner during his time there (he was sacked 10 times in this season's opener against Temple). Still, he's thrown for over 2,900 yards in each of the last two seasons.
 

cjbfbp said:
Although I agree with some points made in your post, you've gone too far here. I've always pulled for Leidner but it has been obvious this year that he isn't consistent enough, talented enough, or mentally suited to being the QB of a power conference team when so much of the offense depends upon him. I'll just take two names from the list above - Thorson and Hackenburg. Thorson is a freshman who showed more poise in a big game than Liedner did as a third year player. Hackenburg was thrown to the wolves on a probation depleted PSU team as a freshman and he has faced far more serious protection issues than Leidner during his time there (he was sacked 10 times in this season's opener against Temple). Still, he's thrown for over 2,900 yards in each of the last two seasons.
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Hackenberg is the most overrated player in CFB, and I will never understand the hype he receives.

Season stats:
Leidner: 91-159, 950 yds, 57.2 comp %, 5.98 YPA, 4 TD, 3 INT; 108 rush yds, 1 TD
Hackenberg: 66-125, 824 yds, 52.8 comp %, 6.59 YPA, 5 TD, 2 INT; -55 rush yds, 0 TD

And that's with Leidner playing a markedly more difficult schedule this year.

Over the course of their careers, Leinder has 38 TDs in 27 games. Hack has 41 in 30 games. Hack has 27 INTs to Mitch's 12. Very similar QB ranking over their careers. Leidner better YPA. Hack has thrown for more yards, but that's the only way he really stands out from Mitch (other than INT).

Not saying I'd choose Leidner over Hackenberg, but pointing out the ridiculous hyperbole in Judd's article.
 

SonOfTheVarsity said:
Hackenberg is the most overrated player in CFB, and I will never understand the hype he receives.

Season stats:
Leidner: 91-159, 950 yds, 57.2 comp %, 5.98 YPA, 4 TD, 3 INT; 108 rush yds, 1 TD
Hackenberg: 66-125, 824 yds, 52.8 comp %, 6.59 YPA, 5 TD, 2 INT; -55 rush yds, 0 TD

And that's with Leidner playing a markedly more difficult schedule this year.

Over the course of their careers, Leinder has 38 TDs in 27 games. Hack has 41 in 30 games. Hack has 27 INTs to Mitch's 12. Very similar QB ranking over their careers. Leidner better YPA. Hack has thrown for more yards, but that's the only way he really stands out from Mitch (other than INT).

Not saying I'd choose Leidner over Hackenberg, but pointing out the ridiculous hyperbole in Judd's article.
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Because Hackenberg was a 5* recruit who had a very good true freshman season under Bill O'Brien - a pro coach. James Franklin has ruined him.

Anyone else see CJ Beathard was 9/21 for 77 yds in Iowa's WIN yesterday?
 

SonOfTheVarsity said:
Hackenberg is the most overrated player in CFB, and I will never understand the hype he receives.

Season stats:
Leidner: 91-159, 950 yds, 57.2 comp %, 5.98 YPA, 4 TD, 3 INT; 108 rush yds, 1 TD
Hackenberg: 66-125, 824 yds, 52.8 comp %, 6.59 YPA, 5 TD, 2 INT; -55 rush yds, 0 TD

And that's with Leidner playing a markedly more difficult schedule this year.

Over the course of their careers, Leinder has 38 TDs in 27 games. Hack has 41 in 30 games. Hack has 27 INTs to Mitch's 12. Very similar QB ranking over their careers. Leidner better YPA. Hack has thrown for more yards, but that's the only way he really stands out from Mitch (other than INT).

Not saying I'd choose Leidner over Hackenberg, but pointing out the ridiculous hyperbole in Judd's article.
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Again, Hackenberg entered a program where lots of players left and where football scholarships were limited to 65. Those limitations had immediate and lingering detrimental effects on the talent playing around him. PSU allowed 44 sacks in 2014 (Minnesota allowed 21) and allowed 10 in this season's opener against Temple (hardly Alabama). I don't disagree that Hackenberg has been less than anticipated but he's faced greater harassment from opposing defenses throughout his career than Leidner has faced this year.
 

SonOfTheVarsity said:
Hackenberg is the most overrated player in CFB, and I will never understand the hype he receives.
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You are so right. Highly recruited and had a good Fr year so folks who pay casual attention to CFB (Judd qualifies) hear the name and think, "he's good." He is not - or at least hasn't been for a while.
 

The problem is recruiting. I saw this coming a few years back when Kill took a scant few lineman in 2013 (2) and in 2012 (2). Such a poor job at recruiting lineman that in 2014 there were 3 out of 27 players along the line that signed. Of those 7 guys, we have Connelly out. Everybody else is not injured. The lack of depth and experience comes from a single source - a lack of scholarship offensive tackles, guards and centers. This is terrible balance. Every other team in DI ball recruits between 3 and 5 recruits per year along the line. Minnesota achieved that 1 time in 3 years. To me, that is the absence of positive results.

Whose fault is that? Limegrover and Kill. Lack of depth is not due to injuries (except to the tight ends). It is due to poor execution along the recruiting front. I was faulted on this board in years past for my comments on recruiting, but in retrospect, I NAILED THE MAIN ISSUE OF SHORTAGE!

Jerry Kill needs to be reminded that defense matters, but a good offense is the best defense of all. I love his defensive recruiting except for the imbalance in recruiting the o-line. Our loses today reflect the lack of effort in landing offensive linemen in quantity and quality. The end of the story is FIRE Limegrover.
 

Dean S said:
The problem is recruiting. I saw this coming a few years back when Kill took a scant few lineman in 2013 (2) and in 2012 (2). Such a poor job at recruiting lineman that in 2014 there were 3 out of 27 players along the line that signed. Of those 7 guys, we have Connelly out. Everybody else is not injured. The lack of depth and experience comes from a single source - a lack of scholarship offensive tackles, guards and centers. This is terrible balance. Every other team in DI ball recruits between 3 and 5 recruits per year along the line. Minnesota achieved that 1 time in 3 years. To me, that is the absence of positive results.

Whose fault is that? Limegrover and Kill. Lack of depth is not due to injuries (except to the tight ends). It is due to poor execution along the recruiting front. I was faulted on this board in years past for my comments on recruiting, but in retrospect, I NAILED THE MAIN ISSUE OF SHORTAGE!

Jerry Kill needs to be reminded that defense matters, but a good offense is the best defense of all. I love his defensive recruiting except for the imbalance in recruiting the o-line. Our loses today reflect the lack of effort in landing offensive linemen in quantity and quality. The end of the story is FIRE Limegrover.
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+2 What he said.
 

wasn't Alex Mayes the only OL in 2013? just one, not two that year?
 


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