Shama: Bet on Beth Goetz for U AD Position

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Mulligan said:
Hint: On the Off-Topic Board you don't stand out quite as much as being paranoid, persecuted, and downright dumb. What in the hell did what Nakomis said have anything to do with whether Goetz is qualified to be the Gopher AD? But keep looking under rocks for those who are taking away your freedom and destroying this country.
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I don't have to look under rocks, they're right out in the open. However, your comment indicates that you have no idea what I said. That's ok, I dont' care to really dig into it over here.
 

MinneStoa said:
Ah, I guess I missed that post. So one guy with an obviously horrible take on the situation is enough to generalize? Seems like you're making pretty sweeping claims (referencing "from the comments here, people want..." instead of one lone guy).

Mountain out of a molehill, methinks
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Well, I would reply but you'd probably move the goalposts again, so I'll drop out.
 

Section2 said:
Well, I would reply but you'd probably move the goalposts again, so I'll drop out.
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Not intending to move the goalposts. I just think it's a bit ridiculous that you make it seem like one guy with a dumb take on the situation is speaking for anyone other than himself.
 

Section2 said:
I hate to disagree with you Nokomis, but there is a very very high profile politician in the US that would seem to prove your theory wrong. almost a perfect example. Of course, 1/2 the people on this board would disagree with me.
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I assume you're referencing Pres. Obama? Big different between getting elected to public office and being hired for a job.
 

MinneStoa said:
Not intending to move the goalposts. I just think it's a bit ridiculous that you make it seem like one guy with a dumb take on the situation is speaking for anyone other than himself.
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We agree that he had a dumb take, I'll just leave it at that.
 


GopherHomer said:
"PC hire" is 21st century Right Wing PC code for "anything other than a white male."
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This is B.S.

A PC hire would simply be a hire that was done to meet a quota and bypassed a more qualified candidate. That is why affirmative action can be destructive when it is instituted. If a female or minority is hired people may wonder if they were actually the most qualified, or were they just filling a quota? I believe in Martin Luther King's dream of judging people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin.

If Beth Goetz is the best candidate for the job, let's do it. We saw what we got when we did a nationwide search and ended up with Norwood. Maybe the best candidate is already here and ready to roll.
 

Donovan said:
This is B.S.

A PC hire would simply be a hire that was done to meet a quota and bypassed a more qualified candidate. That is why affirmative action can be destructive when it is instituted. If a female or minority is hired people may wonder if they were actually the most qualified, or were they just filling a quota? I believe in Martin Luther King's dream of judging people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin.

If Beth Goetz is the best candidate for the job, let's do it. We saw what we got when we did a nationwide search and ended up with Norwood. Maybe the best candidate is already here and ready to roll.
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Exactly! Gopher homer is just parroting the political straw man that if you don't want government force to accomplish something, you don't want that thing at all.
 

Section2 said:
Exactly! Gopher homer is just parroting the political straw man that if you don't want government force to accomplish something, you don't want that thing at all.
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Wait - how is the government pushing this hire? I have no idea if she will/would be a good hire but I just find it interesting that it is being discussed as a "PC" hire. Basically, at this point in history, if you complain about political correctness you are a bigot. The term has no concrete meaning outside of a resistance against equality and progress. Just be happy you existed in a time where being a white male gave you extra benefits.
 




Donovan said:
This is B.S.

A PC hire would simply be a hire that was done to meet a quota and bypassed a more qualified candidate. That is why affirmative action can be destructive when it is instituted. If a female or minority is hired people may wonder if they were actually the most qualified, or were they just filling a quota? I believe in Martin Luther King's dream of judging people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin.

If Beth Goetz is the best candidate for the job, let's do it. We saw what we got when we did a nationwide search and ended up with Norwood. Maybe the best candidate is already here and ready to roll.
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No, PC is used as a political buzz word for not choosing a white male.

All these assumptions and doubts about Goetz's qualifications would never even have been brought up if she wasn't a women.

Do you really think the president of the U would put his job on the line by hiring someone that is not qualified for the job?

All of the accounts are that Goetz is a "Rock Star" and people have been very impressed with her work in the past. Let us drop all of this Neanderthal bs and let her AD job audition play out. If she deserves the job she will get it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

PC? pretty cute, professional chum, ... What on earth is PC?
 

goldy93 said:
To all of those saying this is only a PC hire, why? If she were a man, would it make a difference? Everything I have heard and read it sounds like she knows what she is doing and I would much rather appoint an associate AD with years of experience to the AD position than hire someone like Najarian or Taylor and take a complete flyer on someone with no AD experience (at least none that I am aware of). What would they know about running an athletics department?
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Hey! I resent this. I've taken a few fling leaps myself.
 

alchemy2u said:
No, PC is used as a political buzz word for not choosing a white male.

All these assumptions and doubts about Goetz's qualifications would never even have been brought up if she wasn't a women.

Do you really think the president of the U would put his job on the line by hiring someone that is not qualified for the job?

All of the accounts are that Goetz is a "Rock Star" and people have been very impressed with her work in the past. Let us drop all of this Neanderthal bs and let her AD job audition play out. If she deserves the job she will get it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If this was all going the exact same way, promoting from within, but with Dan O'Brien instead of Goetz, would there be the same level of hand-wringing?
 



Here's a good take on this from an article on Penn State's relatively new A.D. Incidentally, to address the other nut job from the OT Forum, it is a "she." The horror of it, Penn State picking an A.D. who didn't even play high school football.

However, must one have football playing experience to successfully understand the business operations of football? Is it the lack of Division I football playing experience amongst most females that holds them out of the position of head athletics director at the highest level of intercollegiate sports? ”When you look at why there are only three female ADs at the BCS level, one can attribute that number to what may be a sticking point as it relates to whether the candidate gets football. Whether a candidate understands football should be gender neutral, though, because there are many athletics directors that are male who didn’t play college football. There are times that the football issue can be a deciding factor that can either open doors or limit opportunities,” Bradley-Doppes noted.If a women–or any candidate for that matter–cannot gain experience in understanding football on the gridiron, where can the understanding be gained? ”It is critically important that athletics director candidates understand the enterprise of college football. They need to understand the value of running a $60-to-$150 million enterprise. People seeking these positions should take on additional responsibilities in their current positions regardless of whether they will receive increased pay or a change of title. If they are at an institution where there is a football program, they should interact and interface with coaches and demonstrate an understanding of what they’re going through. You need to put yourself in a position to understand the sport. One way to do that, is to get to know the coaches.

From all indications, Beth Goetz has used this advice as a playbook.
 

I think a female superstar as AD is just what the program needs. All the jocks get their straps in a bundle and the board gets in a frenzy over her walking from her office. it is abest seller.
 

alchemy2u said:
No, PC is used as a political buzz word for not choosing a white male.

All these assumptions and doubts about Goetz's qualifications would never even have been brought up if she wasn't a women.

Do you really think the president of the U would put his job on the line by hiring someone that is not qualified for the job?

All of the accounts are that Goetz is a "Rock Star" and people have been very impressed with her work in the past. Let us drop all of this Neanderthal bs and let her AD job audition play out. If she deserves the job she will get it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Had you heard of her a month ago?
 

I'm as skeptical of a 'PC' hire as anyone. Look at my previous posts if you doubt that. The Strib article that was coded as 'women should be considered' was most certainly advocating for a woman. Additionally, the folks that think that questioning Beth Goetz equates to hiring only white males are offering up nothing but straw man arguments. At this point it is definitely uncertain if she is the right person for the job.

That said, by the time the decision is made (next spring at the earliest), Beth Goetz will have not only several years experience in D1 athletic administration, but nearly a year as a D1 AD. And that experience will be at the very institution looking to make the hire. If she fills that role well over the next several months, and exhibits aptitude in working with Kill and other coaches as well as advocating for fundraising, how can the job NOT be hers to lose? If you have someone internal successful in the role, foregoing them and hiring an outsider is a HUGE risk (see Norman Teague). Just wait it out. If Beth Goetz impresses us over the next nine months, she should be the incumbent without a doubt.
 

alchemy2u said:
No, PC is used as a political buzz word for not choosing a white male.

All these assumptions and doubts about Goetz's qualifications would never even have been brought up if she wasn't a women.

Do you really think the president of the U would put his job on the line by hiring someone that is not qualified for the job?

All of the accounts are that Goetz is a "Rock Star" and people have been very impressed with her work in the past. Let us drop all of this Neanderthal bs and let her AD job audition play out. If she deserves the job she will get it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Maybe you didn't see what I wrote. I said if she is the best candidate for the job, I hope we hire her. And, sorry, you don't seem to really understand the definition of "political correctness."
 

kellyleeks said:
Reading this thread just makes me see the need more and more for a Trump presidency. Women who are just as qualified as men should have the same opportunity and pay. This one is not qualified. She was right there at the top of the food chain while there was a hostile work environment/sexual harassment issues ongoing. Clean house. She was part of that. There's no way that she didn't know.

Her resume doesn't compare with who we should be looking at. If she wasn't a female no one would be interested.

Is there even a female AD at a D1 school? I don't see how we can hire an AD that hasn't even played high school football. This isn't a commentator job on ESPN2.
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My guess is that most D1 AD's didn't play high school football, let alone college football. At least Beth played high school and college 'football' (ok soccer, but you get my point). She was a D1 athlete at a 'football' school, so I'm guessing she knows what butters the bread at D1 schools. She also was at a very good basketball school, Butler, for a few years. I have no idea if she'd be a good hire, but I doubt her lack of tackle football experience disqualifies her.

Also, a quick google search would show that there are female AD's at D1 schools, including Rutgers, NC State, Penn State, and many other non power 5 conferences.
 


theTurning said:
This says there are currently 5 female division 1 ADs. Where are you seeing more?

http://www.themaneater.com/stories/2011/3/8/women-hold-4-percent-d1a-athletics-director-jobs/
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_athletic_directors

A quick count on this list says about 24, I didn't click on the link to see if all the Lynn's were male or female. Some are schools without football, some are non-power 5 football schools (EMU & WMU), & some are FCS in football.
 

Redbeard said:
Right. Whatever we do, never make progress. Ever. On anything. We should probably just turn back the clock. Cut all women's sports. For that matter, they shouldn't be wasting their time at a university, anyway. While we're at it, let's fire any coach who isn't white. Because, obviously, they were hired because it's the PC thing to do. Hell, while we're at it, why are we letting anyone but white folk play the sport in the first place? Allowing anyone else to play is just the PC thing to do. It gets us good publicity, but that's it.
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I actually would have no problem if all schools in all divisions discontinued sports. Imo, for the good of sports we are better off having junior teams at the 18 to 22 year old age group.
 

Section2 said:
Conversely, you are just blindly trusting that she'll do a good job if she gets hired and concerns that she'll be hired primarily because of her gender are false.
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I would argue that concerns because of her gender may not be "false", but they are most certainly not necessarily accurate or valid.
 

dbaldrich1 said:
I would argue that concerns because of her gender may not be "false", but they are most certainly not necessarily accurate or valid.
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I heard her on the huddle today, didn't come off as a rock star to me. We will see I guess. If she does get hired and fails, I don't think it will constitute progress.
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
I have no confidence in Kaler, who falls for all the feminist nonsense, like the sexual consent forms that is bringing on due process lawsuits all over the nation. Goetz would be such a hopelessly PC, Minnesota-nice, affirmative action decision. She doesn't have a fraction of the MN contacts in sports and the business world that a football man would have. She's only been at Minnesota two years - it makes no sense except as a huge PC gesture, of which Minnesota, as a state, has had far too much of in recent decades.
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I couldn't agree more. Hiring Goetz would be nothing but a PC move. I'm not worried though, I doubt she's even a serious candidate.

The real problem here is the fact that a president of a Big Ten university needs a search firm to find a new AD. Pathetic.
 

Section2 said:
I heard her on the huddle today, didn't come off as a rock star to me. We will see I guess. If she does get hired and fails, I don't think it will constitute progress.
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She didn't seem like a slimeball that I thought Norwood always sounded like. She'd be a fine hire.
 


Section2 said:
I heard her on the huddle today, didn't come off as a rock star to me. We will see I guess. If she does get hired and fails, I don't think it will constitute progress.
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And you'll be only too happy to define failure and pile on.

Looking at the more recent AD's and their accomplishments:

Paul Giel--Hired Joe Salem, Lou Holtz, and John Gutekenst. Combined record 58-83-3. Orchestrated the move to the Dome which was about the worst thing to ever happen to Gopher football. Also, under him Musselman had a whole bunch of NCAA violations causing him to leave just ahead of the sheriff. Completely negligent with Mitch Lee, which eventually resulted in the Madison scandal. This former high school football player with all sorts of Minnesota connections makes a really strong case for himself as the worst AD the Gophers ever had.

McKinley Boston--Hired Jim Wacker. Record 16-39. With Salem and Brewster as worst football hires? Although the Black community was outraged, it's pretty clear he enabled Clem to run his dirty program as VP of Student Affairs or whatever it was.

Mark Deinhart--Hired Clem. That scandal under his watch set U basketball ball many years.

Joel Maturi--He gets undeserved heat IMO around here, but he owns the Brewster hire. Record 15-30.
Costly extensions to coaches like Borton and Mason.

Rick Bay--Did nothing outstandingly bad but really didn't distinguish himself in the short time he was AD.

Norwood Teague--"Mega-tongue" No more needs to be said.

What absolute joke that you're so concerned about a female who might not be good enough to keep up with these guys.

You have such great "empathy and concern" for minorities or other groups as a whole. But then you can't help but comment on individuals whether they be Beth Goetz or some black kid who gets shot. Then the true nastiness comes oozing out. Despite how hard you try to hide it by being "concerned" about PC or whatever, it's just a smokescreen for bigotry and complete lack of understanding about what somebody who isn't a scared little white guy like you might face.
 

Mulligan said:
Mark Deinhart--Hired Clem. That scandal under his watch set U basketball ball many years.
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Nitpicking, but Clem was hired in 1986. Deinhart wasn't AD until 1995. Am I missing something?
 

My number 1 question: Would the U consider her if she wasn't already here? Let's say she had all the same experience at a similar BCS school (let's say UCLA or K State or something like that, doesn't matter - use your imagination). Their AD is canned, she becomes interim for 9 months, and for whatever reason that school doesn't hire her (let's say a donor drops a pile of cash to hire an alumnus). Would the U consider her? I'm not sure, to be honest.

My number one problem with internal hires is that often times a person is hired that would not otherwise be considered for the job if they didn't just happen to be there. Now, that being said, she is a person who has risen through the athletic departments of the schools she's been rather quickly, so maybe they would consider her as a 'rising star'. And if so, and if she would have been "at the top of their list" all things being equal and she wasn't here, then great, hire her. If not, then they should be looking elsewhere.

One good and bad part of the 9 month trial period (give or take) is that they get to see her in action. Good because you see how she handles the job. Bad because if nothing bad happens that she has to deal with, you could get a false sense of security.

In the end, what little I've heard and seen about her says she'd probably do a good job. If she had a couple more years of experience at a D1 FBS school I'd feel more comfortable. If she had been more heavily involved with the football program (seems like that has been almost all Dan O'Brien), I'd feel more comfortable...
 

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