STrib: Envy or enmity? The curious case of Eden Prairie football

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Couple of things to chime in on here.

1. Eden Prairie's school district is largely built out at this point and enrollment will decline. A number of districts had multiple high schools and later contracted. Edina, Roseville, White Bear Lake, all contracted from 2 to 1 high school as demographics changed. Hopkins went from 3 to 1, and Bloomington from 3 to 2. I'm actually a bit surprised Mounds View and Irondale haven't combined at this point. EP did not want to build another high school (and thus have duplicate everything) only to close it in 10 years. Wayzata on the other hand has a ton of empty space and new construction on the west side of the district out in Medina and Corcoran. Enrollment is going to continue to grow. It would make a lot more sense for them to split schools but they seem dead set on having a massive school.

2. Lots of misconceptions on why Grant left Forest Lake. Grant coached two stints at FL. He left on a leave of absence to coach under Gagliardi at St. Johns, and there was speculation that he wanted to be the successor there and that Gags would retire soon. This didn't happen and Gags coached for another 20 some years.

So Grant came back to FL in 1989, when I was a junior. A lot of us were pissed that he was walking back in as we liked our coach. That team was awful. My senior year, we were really good. Ranked in the top ten all year, losing in the section final to eventual state champ Anoka (Anoka was at the time, the largest school in the state, until that district went from 3 to 5 high schools, so enrollment does matter.) The FL team the next year did go to state, but did not win. I would consider those two seasons successful at a school that has had little in way of football success historically.

He left in the next year or two, but it wasn't because he wasn't well-liked in town (he could kissass and play politics with the best of them). It was because he wanted to take a second leave of absence, and the school board denied it. He then took the job at EP.

He's a good coach, results clearly show that, but I didn't like him very much then and still don't. Nothing personal - he always treated me fairly. The political games (which are inherent in kids sports) were part of it, but I have a number of good friends who either worked at EP or their kids went there and have had very negative experiences dealing with him (not football related either). He comes across in interviews as this great guy who cares so much about kids, runs a Gags like program with little contact at practice etc. So much of it is BS and I cringe at how the media in this town treats him with kid gloves.
 

discochris said:
Couple of things to chime in on here.

1. Eden Prairie's school district is largely built out at this point and enrollment will decline. A number of districts had multiple high schools and later contracted. Edina, Roseville, White Bear Lake, all contracted from 2 to 1 high school as demographics changed. Hopkins went from 3 to 1, and Bloomington from 3 to 2. I'm actually a bit surprised Mounds View and Irondale haven't combined at this point. EP did not want to build another high school (and thus have duplicate everything) only to close it in 10 years. Wayzata on the other hand has a ton of empty space and new construction on the west side of the district out in Medina and Corcoran. Enrollment is going to continue to grow. It would make a lot more sense for them to split schools but they seem dead set on having a massive school.

2. Lots of misconceptions on why Grant left Forest Lake. Grant coached two stints at FL. He left on a leave of absence to coach under Gagliardi at St. Johns, and there was speculation that he wanted to be the successor there and that Gags would retire soon. This didn't happen and Gags coached for another 20 some years.

So Grant came back to FL in 1989, when I was a junior. A lot of us were pissed that he was walking back in as we liked our coach. That team was awful. My senior year, we were really good. Ranked in the top ten all year, losing in the section final to eventual state champ Anoka (Anoka was at the time, the largest school in the state, until that district went from 3 to 5 high schools, so enrollment does matter.) The FL team the next year did go to state, but did not win. I would consider those two seasons successful at a school that has had little in way of football success historically.

He left in the next year or two, but it wasn't because he wasn't well-liked in town (he could kissass and play politics with the best of them). It was because he wanted to take a second leave of absence, and the school board denied it. He then took the job at EP.

He's a good coach, results clearly show that, but I didn't like him very much then and still don't. Nothing personal - he always treated me fairly. The political games (which are inherent in kids sports) were part of it, but I have a number of good friends who either worked at EP or their kids went there and have had very negative experiences dealing with him (not football related either). He comes across in interviews as this great guy who cares so much about kids, runs a Gags like program with little contact at practice etc. So much of it is BS and I cringe at how the media in this town treats him with kid gloves.
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You spend the whole first point explaining how it's stupid for schools to build new schools only to shut them down, then wonder why Wayzata doesn't want to go that route?

If you're going to accuse a guy of being a jerk you might as well explain why you think that rather than just stand behind your friend's unknown gripes.


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Eden Prairie has several advantages that swirl together and create the perfect storm for domination.

1. Enrollment. Having 3,000 students has its obvious advantages. A school like Prior Lake, for example, can line up with Eden Prairie on the first play from scrimmage and have just as many talented kids across the line. However, when the first wave of substitutions inevitably comes in, Eden Prairie has a distinct advantage because their second and third-string players are often as good as their first-stringers. Their opponents may have a few decent players on the second string, but not the overall balance of EP. And forget about three-deep. Eden Prairie is the only program in the state that can produce excellent players in three waves. Also, EP players almost never have to play both ways.

2. Minnesota. This state doesn't have the population to support enough schools with high enrollments like, say, Illinois, Florida, Texas, California, Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc. There are only a few districts (Minnetonka and Wayzata) that can even compete with them enrollment-wise. Most Minnesota schools are 9-man through Class AAA. There is only 32 schools in Class AAAAAA right now. Class A has double that. The percentages are in EP's favor simply because there are fewer schools to compete with. Eden Prairie was the single biggest reason the state went to 6A (from 5A) a couple years ago. Think about it: Last year's Class AAAAA state champion, Mankato West, as good as they were with Schlichte and Co., would have lost by two touchdowns to EP, easily. Plus, Mankato West has 1/3 the enrollment of Eden Prairie.

3. Youth feeder-system. I don't think this has as much to do with it, but the city clearly backs their youth programs and this, in effect, helps the high school teams because the athletes come into the system as 9th-graders more prepared than some other districts. There are plenty of other great youth programs in the state, but having young, motivated 7 and 8th-greaders only helps the big picture.

4. Winning. This is a by-product of everything above and is difficult to quantify like enrollment, but it's no doubt the most significant reason EP can sustain such an incredible level of success. Athletes in the system have a confidence about them that cannot be measured. They don't just think they are going to win Friday nights, they know they are going to win. Their opponent, no matter how much they deny it, has it in the back of their heads that "oh boy, we're playing EP, they never lose." They're kids, it's difficult for them to control this emotion.
 

Youth program is the most overblown aspect. There are probably 20-30 communities in the state with nearly identical set ups for youth football.
 

AO54 said:
You spend the whole first point explaining how it's stupid for schools to build new schools only to shut them down, then wonder why Wayzata doesn't want to go that route?
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Read closer smartass.

I explained why it does NOT make sense for EP to divide, but why it DOES make sense for Wayzata.
One district (EP) is largely built out and will shrink. One district (Wayzata) has miles of empty land that will be developed over the next 15-20 years and will grow. Wayzata could divide now, and not have to contract for 40 years. If EP was to have split, they should have done it 15 years ago. At this point, it likely doesn't make sense.

If you're going to accuse a guy of being a jerk you might as well explain why you think that rather than just stand behind your friend's unknown gripes.
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I simply stated my opinion and those of people I know and trust as well as my own experience. Some people seem to think the internet is a court of law or something.
 


BigGopherFan said:
Eden Prairie has several advantages that swirl together and create the perfect storm for domination.

1. Enrollment. Having 3,000 students has its obvious advantages. A school like Prior Lake, for example, can line up with Eden Prairie on the first play from scrimmage and have just as many talented kids across the line. However, when the first wave of substitutions inevitably comes in, Eden Prairie has a distinct advantage because their second and third-string players are often as good as their first-stringers. Their opponents may have a few decent players on the second string, but not the overall balance of EP. And forget about three-deep. Eden Prairie is the only program in the state that can produce excellent players in three waves. Also, EP players almost never have to play both ways.
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I agree. That's why Anoka, Blaine, Coon Rapids were dominant in the 1990's before Champlin Park and Andover opened, and why Elk River was dominant before Rogers and Zimmerman opened.

But I can't for the life of me understand why a kid would want to be on a team of 100 and likely see very little playing time.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Excellent post. Number of football players is the key, not just enrollment. Other communities based on demographics don't have the same amount of football (Size) people.

I believe that Coon Rapids could play down in every sport if wanted to based on the number of kids on free or reduced lunches. I believe you can't just pick the sports you want to do it in. It has to be all sports. Plus Baseball and Wrestling would likely dominate at a lower level. (Both these sports have pull-tabs supporting them.)
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Each sport is unique because there are different classes. FB has 6 classes, basketball has 5, and now baseball has 3. The enrollment breakpoint for each sport is different. For example, a team that is in 3A for baseball (Owatonna or Rogers) have to play with the largest schools in baseball and basketball, but 5A for FB.
 

discochris said:
Read closer smartass.

I explained why it does NOT make sense for EP to divide, but why it DOES make sense for Wayzata.
One district (EP) is largely built out and will shrink. One district (Wayzata) has miles of empty land that will be developed over the next 15-20 years and will grow. Wayzata could divide now, and not have to contract for 40 years. If EP was to have split, they should have done it 15 years ago. At this point, it likely doesn't make sense.



I simply stated my opinion and those of people I know and trust as well as my own experience. Some people seem to think the internet is a court of law or something.
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I think this FAQ http://www.wayzata.k12.mn.us/Page/16294#4 does a good job of explaining why a 2nd school is more expensive and not preferred.

I'm just saying, don't be an Internet tough guy and take pot shots at a guy without backing it up with any evidence whatsoever. Not a court of law. It's just the decent thing to do.


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AO54 said:
I think this FAQ http://www.wayzata.k12.mn.us/Page/16294#4 does a good job of explaining why a 2nd school is more expensive and not preferred.

I'm just saying, don't be an Internet tough guy and take pot shots at a guy without backing it up with any evidence whatsoever. Not a court of law. It's just the decent thing to do.


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I actually live in the Wayzata district, though my child is not of school age. I have an issue with one specific point they make on that site that I believe skews some stats. They mention "a smaller high school." Most districts don't have one significantly smaller and one larger school. They tend to redraw borders to even out numbers. The only example I can think of otherwise was Elk River when they opened Zimmerman high school which was specifically designed to be smaller than ER and Rogers. Two equal sized schools would in theory, provide equal opportunities, unless there was some major income disparity or something that could change that (thinking Park Center as opposed to Maple Grove). I get that it would cost more, and some people think only in terms of taxes, but I personally would be in favor of more opportunities for more kids. But that's my opinion.

Re: being an internet tough guy…

I really don't want to post the one thing. It's pretty sad, but coming from someone I trust like a brother, who worked closely with him in the administration for close to a decade, I absolutely believe it. If you really want to know, feel free to PM me. As far as my own interactions, it's largely related to the typical political games that go with favoritism and the like, but I realize that's the ugly side of high school and youth sports. He wasn't the worst I've seen, but he's not the hero many in the media make him out to be, largely because he's Bud's kid.

When he was on with Reusse last fall and talked about how he's always subscribed to the Gagliardi limited contact way of running practices, I wanted to scream. It's complete BS. I get that high school football has changed with the whole concussion concern recently, but why not just say that instead of lying to make yourself look like a saint? Having played for him, I can say that summer practices were brutal, with serious contact, and really hard hits in games were rewarded (there was a helmet sticker that said POW given for brutal blocks and tackles). I actually LIKED that - I'm not some bitter old Al Bundy, but for him to say otherwise to make himself look good now is a load of crap. Basically, I find him dishonest, and instead of anyone ever calling him on anything, people like Reusse and Mike Max fawn over him. It drives me nuts.
 



discochris said:
I actually live in the Wayzata district, though my child is not of school age. I have an issue with one specific point they make on that site that I believe skews some stats. They mention "a smaller high school." Most districts don't have one significantly smaller and one larger school. They tend to redraw borders to even out numbers. The only example I can think of otherwise was Elk River when they opened Zimmerman high school which was specifically designed to be smaller than ER and Rogers. Two equal sized schools would in theory, provide equal opportunities, unless there was some major income disparity or something that could change that (thinking Park Center as opposed to Maple Grove). I get that it would cost more, and some people think only in terms of taxes, but I personally would be in favor of more opportunities for more kids. But that's my opinion.

Re: being an internet tough guy…

I really don't want to post the one thing. It's pretty sad, but coming from someone I trust like a brother, who worked closely with him in the administration for close to a decade, I absolutely believe it. If you really want to know, feel free to PM me. As far as my own interactions, it's largely related to the typical political games that go with favoritism and the like, but I realize that's the ugly side of high school and youth sports. He wasn't the worst I've seen, but he's not the hero many in the media make him out to be, largely because he's Bud's kid.

When he was on with Reusse last fall and talked about how he's always subscribed to the Gagliardi limited contact way of running practices, I wanted to scream. It's complete BS. I get that high school football has changed with the whole concussion concern recently, but why not just say that instead of lying to make yourself look like a saint? Having played for him, I can say that summer practices were brutal, with serious contact, and really hard hits in games were rewarded (there was a helmet sticker that said POW given for brutal blocks and tackles). I actually LIKED that - I'm not some bitter old Al Bundy, but for him to say otherwise to make himself look good now is a load of crap. Basically, I find him dishonest, and instead of anyone ever calling him on anything, people like Reusse and Mike Max fawn over him. It drives me nuts.
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Just a question: So if you are going to be a bitter, hater for the next 50 years....who is going to suffer the most in that deal? You or Mike Grant? Let it go. It's over. Try to find some accountability in what you might have done differently at the time. But most of all help people, be the opposite of everything you hate about him and coach kids how you think they should be coached....help them. Walk in his shoes for a year. See what kind of pressures from parents and administrators you deal with and then hold true to your principles and don't compromise. Make the world a better place or stop cheap shotting somebody on top. Mike Grant ain't perfect and you are not ever going to find the coach who is....including you or me.

I don't know Mike Grant. But I do know why Eden Prairie football is successful. It is not a list of 5 things. It is one thing and that is coaching. If it was as simple as the list of 5 things then they'd dominate every sport. Coaching is the key...who is your leader?....what's his mindset? Mike Grant's mindset is to dominate! And he utilizes the list of 5 things to make it happen just like lots of other coaches could in their jobs, but don't.
 

60's Guy said:
Just a question: So if you are going to be a bitter, hater for the next 50 years....who is going to suffer the most in that deal? You or Mike Grant? Let it go. It's over. Try to find some accountability in what you might have done differently at the time. But most of all help people, be the opposite of everything you hate about him and coach kids how you think they should be coached....help them. Walk in his shoes for a year. See what kind of pressures from parents and administrators you deal with and then hold true to your principles and don't compromise. Make the world a better place or stop cheap shotting somebody on top. Mike Grant ain't perfect and you are not ever going to find the coach who is....including you or me.

I don't know Mike Grant. But I do know why Eden Prairie football is successful. It is not a list of 5 things. It is one thing and that is coaching. If it was as simple as the list of 5 things then they'd dominate every sport. Coaching is the key...who is your leader?....what's his mindset? Mike Grant's mindset is to dominate! And he utilizes the list of 5 things to make it happen just like lots of other coaches could in their jobs, but don't.
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Hey, it's Mike Max...
 

http://www.northstarfootballnews.com/news_article/show/545113?referrer_id=982977

“We have 1800 kids to choose from for football. I can’t make 3000,” Vossen said. “It doesn’t do us any good to discuss which schools have more. It is never discussed. What is discussed is how do we make 1800 feel like 3000. Our coaching staffs in all sports made a big push to try to make our athletes multi-sport athletes. It was hard to not say get in the weight room because the only reason I was able to play football was because of the weight room, but I can’t say one thing and do another. We tell them keep going out for all the sports you play.”

“If a school has 3000 kids and they don’t share their athletes,” continued Vossen, “then they are really pulling from the same number of kids as far as talent goes as we are. All the sports at Lakeville North have seen the importance of being an athlete.”


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MaxyJR1 said:
http://www.northstarfootballnews.com/news_article/show/545113?referrer_id=982977

“We have 1800 kids to choose from for football. I can’t make 3000,” Vossen said. “It doesn’t do us any good to discuss which schools have more. It is never discussed. What is discussed is how do we make 1800 feel like 3000. Our coaching staffs in all sports made a big push to try to make our athletes multi-sport athletes. It was hard to not say get in the weight room because the only reason I was able to play football was because of the weight room, but I can’t say one thing and do another. We tell them keep going out for all the sports you play.”

“If a school has 3000 kids and they don’t share their athletes,” continued Vossen, “then they are really pulling from the same number of kids as far as talent goes as we are. All the sports at Lakeville North have seen the importance of being an athlete.”


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I would agree with this, but it's definitely against the trend of specialization, especially at the larger suburban schools (and I'd include both Lakeville schools in that category). At younger ages, kids are dedicating their efforts year-round to one sport more and more (football is actually kind of an exception in this region), and parents and coaches are going along with that. I know parents who have 8, 9 and 10 year old kids that are playing soccer, hockey, wrestling, hoops or swimming in ultra competitive programs year-round, and are basically being told by their coaches that if they don't dedicate themselves year-round, they'll get passed by. The multi-sport athlete is less common, except in smaller and more rural schools. I think it's sad.

I was shocked to hear that a friend's son was starting tackle football in third grade and that they will practice three days a week plus game day, starting even before school starts. Not to sound like an old fart, but when I was that age, it was one practice a week, and one game a week for all sports until you got to junior high. And never anything on weekends. As my kid gets to be school age, I honestly don't know how we're going to deal with this if he wants to play sports, especially the weekend part.

To make this relevant to the original topic, I will say that Mike Grant was always supportive and encouraging of people playing as many sports as possible. He was also the boys tennis coach when I was in school.
 



discochris said:
I know parents who have 8, 9 and 10 year old kids that are playing soccer, hockey, wrestling, hoops or swimming in ultra competitive programs year-round, and are basically being told by their coaches that if they don't dedicate themselves year-round, they'll get passed by.
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I would tell that coach that my child may get passed by now, but they will be better off when at 15 years old they focus on a couple of sports.

Some communities now have traveling 3rd grade basketball tournament teams. It's really ridiculous.
 

discochris said:
(football is actually kind of an exception in this region)
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Yes. It is why I tell parents who are playing football, if you want to play your kid to play your other sport please try to prioritize football over it since he will only get one season per year to play. It is relatively short compared to other sports. Mid Aug - Mid Oct.

discochris said:
I was shocked to hear that a friend's son was starting tackle football in third grade and that they will practice three days a week plus game day, starting even before school starts.
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Hopefully it is because it is an emphasis on safety. Teaching the kids how to tackle and block in a safe manner are much more important then when you played. That technique takes time. Then you have the dance of a play. Trying to get 11 kids to do the same thing on a given play is different then what I see on a court or a soccer field. As I repeat myself: safety is the first thing talked about and the most frequent thing talked about now as a coach.
 

monk10 said:
Yes. It is why I tell parents who are playing football, if you want to play your kid to play your other sport please try to prioritize football over it since he will only get one season per year to play. It is relatively short compared to other sports. Mid Aug - Mid Oct.
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That is the message from all sports. We heard it in soccer parents meeting, baseball parents meeting, and I expect it next spring at the track parents meeting. :) They all want you to prioritize their sport over other ones for various reasons. Yours is "short season", others have been "learning how to pitch", "understand x's and o's at this level", "smaller teams so we need everyone to show up", etc...
 

Nate said:
That is the message from all sports. We heard it in soccer parents meeting, baseball parents meeting, and I expect it next spring at the track parents meeting. :) They all want you to prioritize their sport over other ones for various reasons. Yours is "short season", others have been "learning how to pitch", "understand x's and o's at this level", "smaller teams so we need everyone to show up", etc...
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Kids should prioritize whichever sport is in season. Summer is the time to double dip. Specialization is bad for athletes and athletics.

Even if you are a one sport guy, a portion of the year you should not play that sport to give the body a rest.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I would tell that coach that my child may get passed by now, but they will be better off when at 15 years old they focus on a couple of sports.

Some communities now have traveling 3rd grade basketball tournament teams. It's really ridiculous.
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My son played on a travel soccer team when he was in 3rd grade. It was his choice and he still loves it (a few of his friends went that route as well, so I'm guessing that is some of it). He isn't a world beater by any means, but while in in-house league his team would have only 8 kids show up on a good day, most of whom don't care to even be on the field, while the other team has 10+ kids all of whom are excited to play. He would have to cover the entire field because the rest of your team doesn't care, and they ended up getting shelled every game 11+ - 0. He soon got sick of it, and it wasn't any fun at all. I understand some of that is coaching, some of it is league catering, etc... but i didn't blame him one bit for wanting to move on.

Now he plays travel, and has a TON of fun. His friends that cared about soccer joined travel and he gets more structured coaching compared to the in-house league. The teams are also much better balanced.
 

Some guy said:
Kids should prioritize whichever sport is in season. Summer is the time to double dip. Specialization is bad for athletes and athletics.

Even if you are a one sport guy, a portion of the year you should not play that sport to give the body a rest.
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For our city the only time of year sports don't overlap is winter (our kids don't play hockey). Spring/summer/fall all blend together with a break around mid July until about now.

I agree with the bolded above :)
 

Nate said:
My son played on a travel soccer team when he was in 3rd grade. It was his choice and he still loves it (a few of his friends went that route as well, so I'm guessing that is some of it). He isn't a world beater by any means, but while in in-house league his team would have only 8 kids show up on a good day, most of whom don't care to even be on the field, while the other team has 10+ kids all of whom are excited to play. He would have to cover the entire field because the rest of your team doesn't care, and they ended up getting shelled every game 11+ - 0. He soon got sick of it, and it wasn't any fun at all. I understand some of that is coaching, some of it is league catering, etc... but i didn't blame him one bit for wanting to move on.

Now he plays travel, and has a TON of fun. His friends that cared about soccer joined travel and he gets more structured coaching compared to the in-house league. The teams are also much better balanced.
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I get it, I'm in the same boat. It's more to do with options of all(traveling) or nothing(rec) and lack of middle ground. I see it every day, the rec programs won't budge on modernizing their program, so the advanced players and coaches just move on and create their own option.
 

Some guy said:
Kids should prioritize whichever sport is in season. Summer is the time to double dip. Specialization is bad for athletes and athletics.

Even if you are a one sport guy, a portion of the year you should not play that sport to give the body a rest.
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Totally agree. My son played soccer at a fairly high level for many years but he also loved track and played in-house basketball in the winter. The sport where he had the most success ended up being track and now he is a freshman in college and will be a hurdler for Iowa State. When we were on recruiting trips, the coaches actually loved it when we told them he played varsity soccer as well. They knew that meant he was well conditioned and well rounded.

This spring at the section championship track meet, I was talking to a dad of another hurdler who was a sophomore and was also a soccer player. He said his son was thinking of dropping soccer to focus full time on track. Both my son's coach and I told him that maybe wasn't the best idea and you could do both as my son proved.
 

Nate said:
That is the message from all sports. We heard it in soccer parents meeting, baseball parents meeting, and I expect it next spring at the track parents meeting. :) They all want you to prioritize their sport over other ones for various reasons. Yours is "short season", others have been "learning how to pitch", "understand x's and o's at this level", "smaller teams so we need everyone to show up", etc...
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Context is different. In basketball and hockey season during winter I should hear that. In spring it should be soccer, baseball, and track. However when I hear fall ball, fall soccer summer hockey spring basketball. That is the context. I'm sorry I wasn't very clear on that message. I am trying to say there is one chance all year. Does that make sense as the difference?
 

Nate said:
For our city the only time of year sports don't overlap is winter (our kids don't play hockey). Spring/summer/fall all blend together with a break around mid July until about now.

I agree with the bolded above :)
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if that is true you should work to change it
 

HopHead said:
Totally agree. My son played soccer at a fairly high level for many years but he also loved track and played in-house basketball in the winter. The sport where he had the most success ended up being track and now he is a freshman in college and will be a hurdler for Iowa State. When we were on recruiting trips, the coaches actually loved it when we told them he played varsity soccer as well. They knew that meant he was well conditioned and well rounded.

This spring at the section championship track meet, I was talking to a dad of another hurdler who was a sophomore and was also a soccer player. He said his son was thinking of dropping soccer to focus full time on track. Both my son's coach and I told him that maybe wasn't the best idea and you could do both as my son proved.
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The only coaches who tell kids to specialize are in it for themselves instead of the kid. Usually it is club type coaches who have a major financial stake or coaches with large egos. At least in my experience
 

Nate said:
For our city the only time of year sports don't overlap is winter (our kids don't play hockey). Spring/summer/fall all blend together with a break around mid July until about now.

I agree with the bolded above :)
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This is the part that is new to me as a transplant from the south. I had plenty of time between Feb. - Nov to play outdoor sports. The outdoor sports really overlap and run into each other due to the limited time to be outside, here in MN. Baseball and soccer really seem to try to maximize grass time. Baseball makes more sense to me since there isn't a good indoor option for kids to play. Where as soccer has indoor and other variations of games that are played. Hockey time commitment makes no sense to me.
 

monk10 said:
Context is different. In basketball and hockey season during winter I should hear that. In spring it should be soccer, baseball, and track. However when I hear fall ball, fall soccer summer hockey spring basketball. That is the context. I'm sorry I wasn't very clear on that message. I am trying to say there is one chance all year. Does that make sense as the difference?
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Yep I gotcha!

Some guy said:
if that is true you should work to change it
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I think both of these points might be due to the age of my kids, and as a result my perception. They are quite young still, and for example soccer's primary season is during the spring now. However, as they get older that primary season will turn into being the Fall. I think their age group is the major blockage right now, where everything (or at least everything they are interested in) is crammed into the May - mid July timeframe.
 

Back to the main point - I think having a winning program probably trumps everything for football. Football is not an easy sport, and depending on what position you play, it's not always "fun." When a program is struggling, kids (and parents) will find excuses not to play. That creates a death spiral of lesser interest, fewer kids out for the program, and more struggles on the field. On the other hand, when a program wins consistently, kids want to go out, and parents are less likely to post objections about injuries/concussions and the like.

As a result, the good programs tend to stay good, and the struggling programs tend to continue struggling.

On the whole specialization issue, I see it a lot with certain sports. Volleyball and wrestling are two where I see a lot of "one-sport" athletes. (this is in SW MN - mainly smaller schools). I have a friend whose daughter plays VB, and she spent all summer running to tournaments, including a trip to Florida for a week.
 

It is amazing how many girls volleyball players would become better athletes and be very good basketball player but choose to go after a volleyball scholarships instead and specialize.

That doesn't always work
 

husker70 said:
If you don't like Eden Prairie, then beat them. It can be done. It has been done. Just Do It. There should be a circled date and the focus at Minnetonka needs to peak on September 18th at 7 P.M. Dave Nelson, you are on the clock. You have all the facilities. You have enrollment. There is no excuse. Next Up Brad Anderson you need to finish strong and take it to EP, October 9th. You have done it once, get it done. Again. These two programs have not met the expectations of fans, backers, yet both enjoy funding facilities, and comparable enrollment. There are no excuses.
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Dave Nelson, hello? Prior Lake 38 Minnetonka 0.
 

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