STrib: Envy or enmity? The curious case of Eden Prairie football

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per the STrib:

No Minnesota prep sports program has the polarizing effect of Eden Prairie football. This year should be no exception. The Eagles, winners of the past four big-school football state championships — a feat no other program has done — are the preseason favorites to do it again. No team has defeated them since Wayzata did it in 2012. They haven’t lost in the state tournament since 2010. That is what gets football fans so fired up. For all who marvel at the Eagles’ remarkable success, others roll their eyes and plead for someone, anyone, to knock them off.

The longtime Stillwater football coach, who retired with four state championships, stood with old friend Mike Grant last fall on the TCF Bank Stadium turf. He offered Grant, Eden Prairie’s coach, congratulations for a fourth consecutive state title and 10th overall.

“They should move Eden Prairie to Class 7A,” Thole joked.

Some prep football fans shake their heads and smile about the Eagles’ dynasty. Others, from parents with sons in competing programs to rabid fans, renew their bitterness with each conference title and section victory of its November reign.

They are tired of the winning, of course. Eden Prairie’s current postseason run of 20 consecutive victories includes four state titles. The Eagles also have a 30-game winning streak overall. Most grinding, though, are Eagles’ fans views of why the team is successful. This idea that hard work and sacrifice are qualities unique to Eden Prairie.

Football is a numbers game. Eden Prairie is one of two high schools (Wayzata is the other) in the state hovering near 3,000 students.

The affluent community invests in its sports programs. Grant is the son of Minnesota football royalty. And Vikings headquarters are within city limits.

Such advantages really cannot be replicated by other communities.

http://www.mnfootballhub.com/news_article/show/546062

Go Gophers!!
 

Until the Vikes move to Eagan.


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No doubt mike grant is a good coach. One of the best in the state. But it is no coincidence he didn't win any state titles at forest lake.

Eden Prairie won the state title on the back of a running back who played for a different high school the year previously. This kid isn't the only case of a kid moving to a west metro school simply for sports reasons.

Nothing wrong with it imo. I actually wish they would be more lenient on transfer eligibility as I think the rules disproportionately work against lower income students.





The only thing that annoys me about Eden prairie are the people who refuse to acknowledge all of the built in advantages. I'm even fine with the advantages. Just quit telling me how much better you are than the rest of the state.

Really the only schools in the state that should be able to compete with Eden prairie demographically are wayzata and Minnetonka. Those are the top 3 for football.

Other than those three and private schools youd have to go back to I think 2002 to find a different state champ.
Coincidentally around 2002 is when the school population at Minnetonka and wayzata began to take off.
 

Sorry the Edina girls tennis team winners of 33 of the last 37 state championships is the most dominating program in the state. They have won 18 years in a row.
 

Some guy said:
No doubt mike grant is a good coach. One of the best in the state. But it is no coincidence he didn't win any state titles at forest lake.

Eden Prairie won the state title on the back of a running back who played for a different high school the year previously. This kid isn't the only case of a kid moving to a west metro school simply for sports reasons.

Nothing wrong with it imo. I actually wish they would be more lenient on transfer eligibility as I think the rules disproportionately work against lower income students.





The only thing that annoys me about Eden prairie are the people who refuse to acknowledge all of the built in advantages. I'm even fine with the advantages. Just quit telling me how much better you are than the rest of the state.

Really the only schools in the state that should be able to compete with Eden prairie demographically are wayzata and Minnetonka. Those are the top 3 for football.

Other than those three and private schools youd have to go back to I think 2002 to find a different state champ.
Coincidentally around 2002 is when the school population at Minnetonka and wayzata began to take off.
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Their QB last year, Grantham Gilliard, was also a transfer from one of the Lakeville schools. He is at Wyoming now either playing football or basketball.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
Until the Vikes move to Eagan.


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That would have a minimal effect. You might not have a player like Spielman or Nick Davidson every now and then but in the grand scheme of things, they would be just as successful.
 

Yes, EP gets their recruits, but what sets them apart is their feeder program (grades 1 - 8). They are by far the best at developing that (speaking as a Maple Grove resident with kids formerly through the Minnetonka school system). They aren't "cheating" any more than anyone else does/or wishes they could.
 

pretty sure

die hard gopher said:
Their QB last year, Grantham Gilliard, was also a transfer from one of the Lakeville schools. He is at Wyoming now either playing football or basketball.
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he was at Maranatha before Eden Prairie and probably Lakeville before that...
 

I'm always amazed at the number of kids on the Eden Prairie sideline. Football is hard. For a kid who may never play a down yet still remain fully engaged is impressive.
 



The entire re-rack of the organization of high school football in this state is solely because no one wanted to play Eden Prairie.
 

Forest Lake wouldn't buy into the program and their own fans booed him. Nothing replaces hard work.
 


mggoph said:
Yes, EP gets their recruits, but what sets them apart is their feeder program (grades 1 - 8). They are by far the best at developing that (speaking as a Maple Grove resident with kids formerly through the Minnetonka school system). They aren't "cheating" any more than anyone else does/or wishes they could.
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This is the stuff that annoys me. There are dozens of youth football programs just as good as Eden prairies. A bunch of 3rd graders playing football better than a bunch of 3rd graders in Bloomington is not why Eden Prairie is better than jefferson. Not even in the top 30 reasons.
 



GopherRock said:
The entire re-rack of the organization of high school football in this state is solely because no one wanted to play Eden Prairie.
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Why should schools like shakopee and prior lake play wayzata just because wayzata whines?
Prior lake and shakopee are the two schools that got worked over in the metro with those deals. They traded better travel and more competitive match ups just because the 3 most affluent schools in the state whined.

EP, Wayzata, and Minnetonka love the advantages they get from having giant schools with facilities that give them a competitive advantage, and then they legislate that the schools that can't afford facilities have to play them.


Eden prairie oft complains about having to travel to Winnipeg for a game. They played two split squad games in Winnipeg. If they were willing to play a split squad game in the twin cities they could have found games.
 

All of the other very large school district split up the high schools to bring down the class size and give more opportunity for kids. These schools wouldn't be so powerful if all of the northern or southeastern schools kept just one high school. EP and these other school need to reassess their priorities.


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alchemy2u said:
All of the other very large school district split up the high schools to bring down the class size and give more opportunity for kids. These schools wouldn't be so powerful if all of the northern or southeastern schools kept just one high school. EP and these other school need to reassess their priorities.


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I blv EP is facing declining enrollment, why would they split their high school up now?
 

alchemy2u said:
All of the other very large school district split up the high schools to bring down the class size and give more opportunity for kids. These schools wouldn't be so powerful if all of the northern or southeastern schools kept just one high school. EP and these other school need to reassess their priorities.


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So you're saying the top priority for a school district should be getting their students more varsity playing time? Building another high school hasn't improved academics anywhere I've seen and EP and Wayzata are both great academic schools. There's more to high school than playing sports.


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Some guy said:
Why should schools like shakopee and prior lake play wayzata just because wayzata whines?
Prior lake and shakopee are the two schools that got worked over in the metro with those deals. They traded better travel and more competitive match ups just because the 3 most affluent schools in the state whined.

EP, Wayzata, and Minnetonka love the advantages they get from having giant schools with facilities that give them a competitive advantage, and then they legislate that the schools that can't afford facilities have to play them.
Click to expand...

Because EP, Shakopee, and Prior Lake are similar-sized high schools?

Shakopee recently voted down a referendum (and did so handily) that would have built a second high school, and is on track to spend more to double the size of the current building than it would have cost to build a second school.

And I have seen no discussion at all about expanding Prior Lake HS.
 

alchemy2u said:
All of the other very large school district split up the high schools to bring down the class size and give more opportunity for kids. These schools wouldn't be so powerful if all of the northern or southeastern schools kept just one high school. EP and these other school need to reassess their priorities.


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Disagree. They can do what they want as a district, they choose to be one school to save money on administration and building costs. That is fine.

It is what prior lake has chosen to do and what the shakopee voters chose to do when they failed to pass a bond for a new high school.
 

GopherRock said:
Because EP, Shakopee, and Prior Lake are similar-sized high schools?

Shakopee recently voted down a referendum (and did so handily) that would have built a second high school, and is on track to spend more to double the size of the current building than it would have cost to build a second school.

And I have seen no discussion at all about expanding Prior Lake HS.
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Shakopee and prior lake had a conference with 9 willing opponents and travel that never caused them to go north of the river. The schools they played were competitive match ups that all 10 schools liked.

Now because Wayzata, Minnetonka, and Eden Prairie whined Prior Lake played a game at Centential yesterday.

If you don't think Shakopee and Prior Lake got screwed then you aren't paying attention.


My point wasn't that prior lake can't compete. Prior lake can compete. My point is that prior lake shouldn't be forced to abandon their own self interest to serve the desires of the 3-4 richest schools in the state. They were.
 

with all due regards, the move to a District FB system was not based solely on Twin Cities concerns. A lot of the out-state schools have also had scheduling problems because of conferences with an odd number of teams. In SW MN, smaller schools have had to drive long distances to pick up non-conference games, play teams from South Dakota, or in some cases, have a conference schedule where you play the same team twice in a season. That led to some teams playing each other 3 times in one season if they were in the same Section.

Enrollment is nice, but I could list dozens of situations in 9-man, Class A or AA where schools with smaller enrollments are very successful, and schools with larger enrollments struggle. It's a combination of talent, coaching, and creating a winning attitude that makes kids want to play FB.
On the flip side, schools that don't win create an atmosphere where kids don't want to be part of the program.
 

AO54 said:
So you're saying the top priority for a school district should be getting their students more varsity playing time? Building another high school hasn't improved academics anywhere I've seen and EP and Wayzata are both great academic schools. There's more to high school than playing sports.


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I don't know enough about it, but wouldn't it be better to have two schools of 1500 kids rather than 1 school of 3000 kids? All else being equal? I don't know enough about it and I'm not blasting EP, but I think for kids who struggle, it would be really easy to get "lost" in one of those huge schools.


On an earlier note, whoever the poster who was talking about their youth program, they are dead on. I realize that other schools have good "feeder" programs, but EP is the model. Their size and their feeder systems and their mindset are why they're so successful. I won a state championship with CDH 15 years ago, we never built what EP has built, but the mindset around that program was to expect perfection (people didn't miss workouts, people studied the playbook, people knew there was less messing around, etc.). I imagine, with EP's dominance, that mindset permeates all of their various levels of football.
 

Some guy said:
Shakopee and prior lake had a conference with 9 willing opponents and travel that never caused them to go north of the river. The schools they played were competitive match ups that all 10 schools liked.

Now because Wayzata, Minnetonka, and Eden Prairie whined Prior Lake played a game at Centential yesterday.

If you don't think Shakopee and Prior Lake got screwed then you aren't paying attention.


My point wasn't that prior lake can't compete. Prior lake can compete. My point is that prior lake shouldn't be forced to abandon their own self interest to serve the desires of the 3-4 richest schools in the state. They were.
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I'm not arguing with you, but how did EP, Minnetonka, and Wayzata force this to happen? Did I miss something?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'm not arguing with you, but how did EP, Minnetonka, and Wayzata force this to happen? Did I miss something?
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It was their lobbying that led to the creation of district scheduling. They've been lobbying for years. They won.
 

Some guy said:
It was their lobbying that led to the creation of district scheduling. They've been lobbying for years. They won.
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Ah, wow.

So, what is the alleged good of district scheduling?
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't know enough about it, but wouldn't it be better to have two schools of 1500 kids rather than 1 school of 3000 kids? All else being equal? I don't know enough about it and I'm not blasting EP, but I think for kids who struggle, it would be really easy to get "lost" in one of those huge schools.


On an earlier note, whoever the poster who was talking about their youth program, they are dead on. I realize that other schools have good "feeder" programs, but EP is the model. Their size and their feeder systems and their mindset are why they're so successful. I won a state championship with CDH 15 years ago, we never built what EP has built, but the mindset around that program was to expect perfection (people didn't miss workouts, people studied the playbook, people knew there was less messing around, etc.). I imagine, with EP's dominance, that mindset permeates all of their various levels of football.
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3-6th grade football has almost nothing to do with high school winning.

It is a correlation not causation relationship.
The same things that drive high school success drive lower level prosperity. There are 20-30 youth programs in the state just as strong as Eden prairie's.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Ah, wow.

So, what is the alleged good of district scheduling?
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Guarantees that those 5 lake schools get 8 games that are close.
They have had to travel or pay out.


Definitely a good thing for kids at those 5 schools.
Definitely a bad thing for some schools and rivalries.

There are other schools other than those 5 who were helped...but those 5 are definitely the driving force
 


short ornery norwegian said:
with all due regards, the move to a District FB system was not based solely on Twin Cities concerns. A lot of the out-state schools have also had scheduling problems because of conferences with an odd number of teams. In SW MN, smaller schools have had to drive long distances to pick up non-conference games, play teams from South Dakota, or in some cases, have a conference schedule where you play the same team twice in a season. That led to some teams playing each other 3 times in one season if they were in the same Section.

Enrollment is nice, but I could list dozens of situations in 9-man, Class A or AA where schools with smaller enrollments are very successful, and schools with larger enrollments struggle. It's a combination of talent, coaching, and creating a winning attitude that makes kids want to play FB.
On the flip side, schools that don't win create an atmosphere where kids don't want to be part of the program.
Click to expand...

Ding, ding, ding. If it were because of three schools, it would have only affected class 6A. Times are changing. Out-state population shifts are creating gaps in enrollment. You can't have 4A teams playing 1A schools. It's not safe. Football numbers across the state are down 20%. This includes the Eden Prairies of the world. They win based on numbers and coaching. If Richfield had 100 "football" (demographics) players along with coaching they win also.

Eden Prairie is not growing at the rate of other developing communities. They don't need a second high school. Also affluent communities don't need the benefits of smaller classroom size.

I love seeing EP lose, but because I like an underdog, no other reason. They're good in every sport.


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