Feds weigh allegations of gender inequity in University of Minnesota

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scools12 said:
Since both of those individuals are gone all that matters is what the current president thinks of the job the current AD is doing. It's clear some do not like the new direction and prefer the style of the previous regime.
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Everybody in Minnesota loves Jerry Kill and what he has done for Gopher football. But there is no way advocates for women's rights are going to allow the U to de-emphasize women's sports. Alabama may be able to get away with it but that is never going to happen in Minnesota.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
There is absolutely no evidence to support what you believe about Teague. What we do know is that Kaler and the Board of Regents will have him on a very short leash from now on. His days at the U are numbered. It doesn't take a genius to understand that one thing Teague needed to do was keep Title IX complaints at the U off the front page of the Strib. Needless to say, he failed miserably at it.
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Please! Kaler is on board. This was an anonymous reporting from the same people who alleged bias. The Strib should get shredded for writing such a one sided and poorly presented article on the front page. The regents may take pause, but it simply again presents the horrible attitude some decisionmakers at the U have towards major college athletics. It's got nothing to do with Teague frankly. Anyone other than Maturi would have made the same changes and got the same article written.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Everybody in Minnesota loves Jerry Kill and what he has done for Gopher football. But there is no way advocates for women's rights are going to allow the U to de-emphasize women's sports. Alabama may be able to get away with it but that is never going to happen in Minnesota.
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Advocates for women's rights can stomp their feet, jump up and down, holler all they want but how the athletic department is ran should be up to the university. I understand those groups won't go away and will do whatever they can do to change what they believe is unfair.
 

Gopher028 said:
Here's a thought, you get the finances towards your sport that you bring in. I.e. tickets and the like. If you bring in ZERO dollars, you get ZERO finances for your sport and you better start adding car washes to pay for it..
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If you don't understand that your ticket price is used to benefit the athletic department as a whole, go to the Wild and Vikings instead. The Athletic Dept doesn't exist to provide an opportunity for only one sport, but for all student athletes. If you're buying a ticket to college athletics you better be on board with supporting student athletes in all sports.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Everybody in Minnesota loves Jerry Kill and what he has done for Gopher football. But there is no way advocates for women's rights are going to allow the U to de-emphasize women's sports. Alabama may be able to get away with it but that is never going to happen in Minnesota.
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Nobody is de-emphasizing women's sports!
This is about bring the AD into the modern world of big time college athletics, and about priorities. The people behind this article don't like that. They'd like to see the U de-emphasize football, and further emphasize women's sports. That doesn't happen at this level.

If the powers behind all this get their way BTW, even if it's a big multi year delay while they build a brand new track facility, Jerry is gone.
Luckily that's not going to happen.
 


women hockey tickets are 5 bucks. go to a game or 2 and offset the cost of your fb or bb tickets.
 

Ole said:
Please! Kaler is on board. This was an anonymous reporting from the same people who alleged bias. The Strib should get shredded for writing such a one sided and poorly presented article on the front page. The regents may take pause, but it simply again presents the horrible attitude some decisionmakers at the U have towards major college athletics. It's got nothing to do with Teague frankly. Anyone other than Maturi would have made the same changes and got the same article written.
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Listening to Lou Nanne on espn1500. Taking real issue with Strib article and some of the people making some of the statements in it. He is not happy with the 'one-sided' article.

Will post podcast when available.
 

station19 said:
Listening to Lou Nanne on espn1500. Taking real issue with Strib article and some of the people making some of the statements in it. He is not happy with the 'one-sided' article.

Will post podcast when available.
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Yes, please linky when available. Thanks 19.
 

Old Goph said:
An anonymous complaint gets filed. Of course that must mean it has the support of women and the left. Making garbage assumptions like that really looks bad.
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Hmm. Your odd fascination with me has officially jumped the shark. Re-read what you just wrote. You are taking the position that Title IX does not have support of any women, or fringe zealots. I'm going to wager you are incorrect.

Wierd arguments aside, the amount of revenue doesn't have to be equal. Opportunity has to be there. That's it.

Teague's initial plans for the VCU basketball facilities did not include space for women's basketball, necessitating re-siting and re-budgeting. He has a history. The argument seems to center on not having an official track facility for a year or two. This could indeed be a problem, but with foresight it shouldn't have been.
 



Old Goph said:
An anonymous complaint gets filed. Of course that must mean it has the support of women and the left. Making garbage assumptions like that really looks bad.
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Come on, who do you think made the complaint? A 50 year old white republican male?
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Everybody in Minnesota loves Jerry Kill and what he has done for Gopher football. But there is no way advocates for women's rights are going to allow the U to de-emphasize women's sports. Alabama may be able to get away with it but that is never going to happen in Minnesota.
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Women's sports are de-emphasized by the market. No one cares, and therefore no one goes.
 

John Galt said:
Come on, who do you think made the complaint? A 50 year old white republican male?
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It's probably someone quoted in the article which is another red flag.
Strib: Hello?
Anonymous: There's a title IX issue at the U, I don't want myself quoted as the originator of the story because I work at/with the U, but you can quote me from my position as a expert commentator on the subject.
Strib: Um, OK! We'll get outraged people all over this one for a few days. There's legit issues and obvious numbers to report right?
Anonymous: Well..... Yeah sorta, the AD has been working towards raising tons of cash for football instead of sitting in on women's swim meets like Joel Maturi did. AND he's not returning every email like Joel did, AND he dared to increase gameday budgets for football without increasing gameday budgets for the rowing team.
Strib: Ok but he slashed the budgets for women's sports right?
Anonymous: Well... As an expert in title IX issues, he has failed to increase opportunities for women to participate in sports at the U, ...but no he just hasn't given as much time and attention to us as Joel did. Just call up Pam Borton, she's an unbiased source!
 

It amazes me how these people don't understand how/why college athletic departments are successful. Continually trying to keep the pie small and complaining for their tiny slice of the tiny pie. Schools with successful football and basketball programs have a large pie, and even the smallest slice is a windfall for women's sports. We finally have an AD and a President that understand this concept and we're too stupid to get out of our own way. Amazingly frustrating.
 



UpnorthGo4 said:
There is not one claim in the above post that has a shred of truth or understanding about how college athletic departments work. Not one. Let me say it. Ole is clueless. The U is has a big problem and this is why:

Spending numbers submitted in 2013 by the university to the Department of Education show expenditures for football, men’s basketball and hockey taking huge leaps in Teague’s first year. Football’s “game-day” spending — which doesn’t factor recruiting costs and coach salaries — jumped 45.2 percent in one season. The spending gap between men’s and women’s hockey more than doubled. Men’s basketball got a 32 percent bump, while game-day spending on the women’s team went down 1.6 percent.

The largest group of Gophers’ female participants comes from track and field. Those athletes account for 227 participants, although many of them are counted three times by competing in indoor and outdoor track and cross-country. That counting is allowable and common, but the OCR will focus on whether it represents true opportunities for women, said Title IX attorney Nancy Hogshead-Makar.

While 501 female Gophers athletes are listed on Minnesota’s EADA filing, when male practice players are removed and each athlete is counted once, that number shrinks to 312 female student-athletes. That total is down 37.2 percent from 2005, when the Gophers reported a recent high of 497. Shrinking opportunities are high on the list of Minnesota’s “red flags,” according to national women’s sports advocate Donna Lopiano.

http://www.startribune.com/feds-weigh-allegations-of-gender-inequity-in-u-of-m-sports/306866861/
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Your clueless if you think Title IX has anything to do with equitable spending. It's about opportunity and access to facilities. Losing the track for a while affects men and women. No gender issue. Creating an athletic facility that all athletes have access to, is not a gender issue. Spending money on revenue generating sports (mens Hockey, mens basketball, football) in order to make even more money, or to continue to bring in money, is how you make the money available to support ALL the non revenue sports which helps some men and more women.
 

And OCR has upheld for years that as long as a school is progressing towards equality, i.e. male female athlete ratio improving not necessarily equal, then a school is doing what is required by title IX.
 

It's the same thing as a parent screaming at the coach for their kid not getting enough playing time.

Me, me, me, me,

Track is just stupid. People just run around in short shorts.......half of them just come back to where they started. Dumb.:rolleyes:
 

station19 said:
Track is just stupid. People just run around in short shorts.......half of them just come back to where they started. Dumb.:rolleyes:
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Station19, there is nothing wrong with these short shorts, and nothing stupid about this track video, which has 27 million views! :cool:


Go Track Videos Like This One!!
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Hmm. Your odd fascination with me has officially jumped the shark. Re-read what you just wrote. You are taking the position that Title IX does not have support of any women, or fringe zealots. I'm going to wager you are incorrect.

Wierd arguments aside, the amount of revenue doesn't have to be equal. Opportunity has to be there. That's it.

Teague's initial plans for the VCU basketball facilities did not include space for women's basketball, necessitating re-siting and re-budgeting. He has a history. The argument seems to center on not having an official track facility for a year or two. This could indeed be a problem, but with foresight it shouldn't have been.
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Trust me, I've got no fascination with you, odd or otherwise. I sometimes feel the need to respond when someone posts garbage such as yours. Now you try to change your thought after the fact to imply that I'm saying no women or members of the left support the complaint. I'm merely objecting to your original premise that this complaint is somehow tied to the mainstream view of ALL Women and ALL members of the left. Do you really think I can't easily find women and leftists who are wildly in favor of Gopher football and upgraded facilities? And do you really think I can't just as easily find staunch Republicans who want zero dollars going into facility upgrades? I really think it's you who needs to take another look at the garbage you wrote.
 

LakerFan said:
Your clueless if you think Title IX has anything to do with equitable spending. It's about opportunity and access to facilities. Losing the track for a while affects men and women. No gender issue. Creating an athletic facility that all athletes have access to, is not a gender issue. Spending money on revenue generating sports (mens Hockey, mens basketball, football) in order to make even more money, or to continue to bring in money, is how you make the money available to support ALL the non revenue sports which helps some men and more women.
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Why did you totally ignore the most pertinent part of the quote I posted that claims the number of female athletes at the U are down 37.2% since 2005? On second thought, don't bother answering my question. I already know why you ignored that inconvenient fact. The relative reduction in spending on women sports at the U only adds fuel to the fire for the Title IX complaint. It is a good bet that when the final decision is made this case will set a precedent for every Division I school in America.
 

LakerFan said:
And OCR has upheld for years that as long as a school is progressing towards equality, i.e. male female athlete ratio improving not necessarily equal, then a school is doing what is required by title IX.
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The relevant fact that you somehow missed is that the male/female athlete ratio at the U has apparently been regressing since 2005.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Why did you totally ignore the most pertinent part of the quote I posted that claims the number of female athletes at the U are down 37.2% since 2005? On second thought, don't bother answering my question. I already know why you ignored that inconvenient fact. The relative reduction in spending on women sports at the U only adds fuel to the fire for the Title IX complaint. It is a good bet that when the final decision is made this case will set a precedent for every Division I school in America.
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So I refute the part of your post that is dead wrong, but I'm wrong because I failed to refute the part that is correct. Got it.
 

Just because you don't agree with a newspaper article does not make it biased or one-sided.
there was a complaint against the U, and it is being investigated. That is news, and the Strib (and every other media outlet) is going to cover it. admittedly, some outlets will give it more play than others, but it's still news. If it has a negative impact on fund-raising, that is not the Strib's problem.

Also, title XI is a fact of life, and every AD in college sports understands that (or should understand it). A man who practices against the women's basketball team is not a female athlete - and trying to count them as a female participant looks bad, whether it is common practice or not.

IMHO, what this comes down to is that the women's and minor sports had a friend in Joel Maturi. when Teague took the job, somebody should have spelled it out to him that the non-revenue sports enjoyed a certain status under Maturi. If Teague had been smart, he would have made sure that somebody - if not him, someone else in the office - paid some attention to the non-revenue sports to keep them happy. Instead, he has apparently helped create an atmosphere where someone was angry enough to file a complaint. Teague, at the very least, bears some of the responsibility for the current situation.

When all is said and done, the new facilities are going to be built, and some accomodations/adjustments will be made to satisfy the women's and non-revenue sports. This is not the end of the world. It's unfortunate, but it could have been prevented with a little more foresight from the AD's office.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Why did you totally ignore the most pertinent part of the quote I posted that claims the number of female athletes at the U are down 37.2% since 2005? On second thought, don't bother answering my question. I already know why you ignored that inconvenient fact.
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Honestly are we sure that number is counted the same way?
This article has so much slanted number counting I wouldn't be surprised if the subtraction of male practice players and triple counting track athletes is not being dolled out equally between the 2005 numbers and the 2013.
501 is awfully close to 497. If not and the pre calculated numbers are 312 and 497. Then certainly there would be an explanation for that. Especially since that much decreased participation would have mostly come under Maturi's watch.
Any reason behind that decrease however has not been reported here, which is dishonest since I'm sure it's not an across the board reduction.
Could be an increased emphasis on distance runners for all we know which would have been reduced in larger amounts by discounting them.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
The relevant fact that you somehow missed is that the male/female athlete ratio at the U has apparently been regressing since 2005.
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So I just added up men and womens rosters on Gophersports.com

Men 379
Women 325
14% difference

So for women to have dropped 37% since 2005 there must have been 514 female athletes competing in 2005. So either men's athletics has fallen as well which is an inconvenient fact your leaving out Al Gore. Or the 37% is just a fabricated number.

I'm calling B.S. on your "fact" about 37% decline. More likely both are down
 


short ornery norwegian said:
Just because you don't agree with a newspaper article does not make it biased or one-sided.
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short ornery norwegian, they quoted a donor, a former coach, an athlete and a women's basketball practice player - all who took one side of the story. They didn't quote a donor, former coach, an athlete and a women's basketball practice player who took the different side. Therefore, yes, this article is one-sided. It has nothing to do whether or not I agree with the article.

Go Gophers!!
 

LakerFan said:
So I just added up men and womens rosters on Gophersports.com

Men 379
Women 325
14% difference

So for women to have dropped 37% since 2005 there must have been 514 female athletes competing in 2005. So either men's athletics has fallen as well which is an inconvenient fact your leaving out Al Gore. Or the 37% is just a fabricated number.

I'm calling B.S. on your "fact" about 37% decline. More likely both are down
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Beat me to it. I was gonna do this over lunch.
The Strib has either taken a biased source's word on these numbers or failed at the math check.

EDIT: I checked 2005's women's rosters. They equal 349 participants(names). Not 497.
That would constitute a % reduction of 7% not 37%. 7% and 24 names could easily be explained by a handful of teams having roster issues, especially rowing and track where there are lots of women.
 

Ole said:
Beat me to it. I was gonna do this over lunch.
The Strib has either taken a biased source's word on these numbers or failed at the math check.

EDIT: I checked 2005's women's rosters. They equal 349 participants(names). Not 497.
That would constitute a % reduction of 7% not 37%. 7% and 24 names could easily be explained by a handful of teams having roster issues, especially rowing and track where there are lots of women.
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2005 2014
56 40 Rowing
21 25 Hockey
16 9 Basketball
43 48 Cross country
11 9 Golf
16 14 Gymnastics
15 23 Soccer
15 22 Softball
38 31 Swim and Dive
11 10 Tennis
89 81 Track and field
13 13 Volleyball

344 325 Total whopping 5 % difference in 10 years. Public information if you trouble to look for it


I used 2005-06 rosters, guessing Ole maybe used 2004-05 numbers which accounts for our slight variance. Forget the facts though. just throw around unsupported numbers like 37% if it fits your agenda.
 

LakerFan said:
2005 2014
56 40 Rowing
21 25 Hockey
16 9 Basketball
43 48 Cross country
11 9 Golf
16 14 Gymnastics
15 23 Soccer
15 22 Softball
38 31 Swim and Dive
11 10 Tennis
89 81 Track and field
13 13 Volleyball

344 325 Total whopping 5 % difference in 10 years. Public information if you trouble to look for it


I used 2005-06 rosters, guessing Ole maybe used 2004-05 numbers which accounts for our slight variance. Forget the facts though. just throw around unsupported numbers like 37% if it fits your agenda.
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And 7 of those 19 fewer athletes are due to Pam Borton's inability to stop people from quitting her team.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Just because you don't agree with a newspaper article does not make it biased or one-sided.
there was a complaint against the U, and it is being investigated. That is news, and the Strib (and every other media outlet) is going to cover it. admittedly, some outlets will give it more play than others, but it's still news. If it has a negative impact on fund-raising, that is not the Strib's problem.

Also, title XI is a fact of life, and every AD in college sports understands that (or should understand it). A man who practices against the women's basketball team is not a female athlete - and trying to count them as a female participant looks bad, whether it is common practice or not.

IMHO, what this comes down to is that the women's and minor sports had a friend in Joel Maturi. when Teague took the job, somebody should have spelled it out to him that the non-revenue sports enjoyed a certain status under Maturi. If Teague had been smart, he would have made sure that somebody - if not him, someone else in the office - paid some attention to the non-revenue sports to keep them happy. Instead, he has apparently helped create an atmosphere where someone was angry enough to file a complaint. Teague, at the very least, bears some of the responsibility for the current situation.

When all is said and done, the new facilities are going to be built, and some accomodations/adjustments will be made to satisfy the women's and non-revenue sports. This is not the end of the world. It's unfortunate, but it could have been prevented with a little more foresight from the AD's office.
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I nominate this for reasonable, level-headed post of the day.
 

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