Worst Gopher Head Coach in last 40 years

Who is the worst MN Football Coach in last 40 years?

  • Cal Stoll - 39-39 (.500)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Joe Salem - 19-35-1 (.352)

    Votes: 21 14.9%

  • Lou Holtz - 10-12 (.455)

    Votes: 3 2.1%

  • John Gutekunst - 29-36-2 (.441)

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Jim Wacker - 16-39 (.291)

    Votes: 35 24.8%

  • Glen Mason - 64-57 (.535)

    Votes: 4 2.8%

  • Tim Brewster - 15-30 (.333)

    Votes: 77 54.6%
  • Total voters
    141
  • Poll closed .
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Ski U Mah Gopher said:
Why was Cal Stoll fired?
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Easy. Those were heady times no matter who much re-writing and ignorance of history has gone on. The Dome was coming and with it came the thought that recruiting would ramp-up. Minnesota would no longer face the negatives of having to play outside in the "cold" and would be playing on the same turf as the Vikings. Now throw in the fact that the Gophers would be one of the few, if not the only Big Ten school playing at night on a regular basis. This was way before all games were televised. People were convinced that would be a huge advantage in recruiting and attendance. You could nearly guarantee those recruits that they would be on national/regional TV every week.

The M Club members and the big money guys wanted Stoll out and "one of their own" to lead the Gophers into those good times. That's were Smokey Joe came in, not only was he a Gopher, he was on one of those Rose Bowl teams. Didn't really play much but still..

Gotta remember, this stuff was going on in '78 and '79. This wasn't 50 years in the wilderness. This was before Brewster, Wacker, Gutey, Holtz etc. The Gophers were only a few years away from their title in '67 and had finished 3rd in '68, '73 and '76. It looked, to a lot of people, that the Dome was going to break the back of the "Big Two, Little 8" in the Big Ten and push the Gophers back into title contenders.

They got their guy, but everything else fell apart.
 

I don't mean to add fuel to the fire,and I'm not mad at anyone, but just remember; through most of these years Tony Dungy was available.
 

station19 said:
I don't mean to add fuel to the fire,and I'm not mad at anyone, but just remember; through most of these years Tony Dungy was available.
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Who are you so mad at?


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EG#9 said:
This is hilarious. I even read a response where Brewster took over a program with "momentum". What "momentum" was that? He took over a team that started out 0-5 in the B1G and narrowly avoided a home loss to a Dakota school and that Gopher team had a 3 year starter at QB in Cupito. That team would lose its QB and best offensive player (Spaeth) to graduation. Then you had 3 or 4 of the best remaining athletes get kicked out of school. Brewster was having to start true freshman that he recruited after getting the job. He quickly got the program back to exactly where it was for the vast majority of the prior coaches tenure, only to crater in year 4. Bad coach? Yes Disaster? Certainly not in comparison to what Minnesota football has been in my lifetime. Worse than Wacker? You have to be kidding me. Also, if we're going to include records in this discussion, then it should be Big Ten records and not overall records. Mason played a MUCH easier non-conference schedule than every other coach on that list.
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Gee I don't know, maybe it was the 7 bowl games in the previous 8 seasons (including bowl wins over Arkansas, Oregon, and Alabama)? Or maybe it was having only 1 losing regular season record the previous 8 seasons? Or maybe it was the fact that we were two years away from opening a brand new on campus stadium and finally ridding ourselves of the Metrodome? And all of this came directly after 8 straight losing seasons. Yes, I'd call that momentum.

Brewster defenders are hilarious. They somehow bash Mason and defend Brewster all in one post. Pure delusion.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Bowling Green was an 8-5 MAC team. Why are they on your list? Northern Illinois was an 11-3 MAC team. Why are they on your list? NDSU was undefeated and probably would've won the I-AA national title in 2007 had they been eligible. No Big Ten team should ever lose to teams like this, but much better Big Ten teams have lost to teams far worse than any of these.



We're holding wins against him now? Give me a freaking break.



Wacker was 8-32 in the Big Ten, a winning percentage of 0.200. What is your point?



I say he would've won all 5 remaining Big Ten games and gone to a bowl game. My prediction is equally valid. This is why untestable ex post facto predictions are so stupid.
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No it isn't actually. When you take into account all the known factors and surrounding conditions at the time, you're prediction isn't even close to as valid as John Galt's. You clearly never took Logic 101 in college. My God.
 

DMB123 said:
Gee I don't know, maybe it was the 7 bowl games in the previous 8 seasons (including bowl wins over Arkansas, Oregon, and Alabama)? Or maybe it was having only 1 losing regular season record the previous 8 seasons? Or maybe it was the fact that we were two years away from opening a brand new on campus stadium and finally ridding ourselves of the Metrodome? And all of this came directly after 8 straight losing seasons. Yes, I'd call that momentum.

Brewster defenders are hilarious. They somehow bash Mason and defend Brewster all in one post. Pure delusion.
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EG#9's assessment of the remaining talent when Brewster took over is pretty spot-on. Would Mason have won more than 1 game with it? Probably (maybe 3-4 wins), but I think it's pretty safe to say the team was trending downward at that point. I had season tickets for both the Wacker and Brewster eras - Wacker was worse in my opinion. I'm too young to comment much on the pre-Holtz coaches.
 

How the F@#* does Glen Mason have more votes than when I posted yesterday?
 




Wisconsin game 2000 - Chippewa Valley News

Minnesota led 12-3 with 1:20 left before halftime when Mason's peculiar call backfired.

On fourth-and-8 from the Badgers' 40, Mason opted to try a field goal even though he has the nation's leading punter in Preston Gruening, and kicker Dan Nystrom had already missed a short field goal and an extra point.

"It was a bad decision," Mason admitted. "My fault. I'm the one who makes those decisions. The wind was with us, then it changed. I almost screamed, 'Time out!' But I didn't. I should have."

Nystrom's attempt into a slight breeze barely reached the end zone, and the bumbling Badgers, playing without injured Michael Bennett, the nation's fourth-leading rusher, had new life.

Bollinger hit Nick Davis with a 45-yard touchdown pass that pulled Wisconsin to 12-10 at halftime and sparked a 17-0 run.

"You go into halftime with momentum and you don't feel so bad," Badgers coach Barry Alvarez said.
 

Maximus said:
Wisconsin game 2000 - Chippewa Valley News

Minnesota led 12-3 with 1:20 left before halftime when Mason's peculiar call backfired.

On fourth-and-8 from the Badgers' 40, Mason opted to try a field goal even though he has the nation's leading punter in Preston Gruening, and kicker Dan Nystrom had already missed a short field goal and an extra point.

"It was a bad decision," Mason admitted. "My fault. I'm the one who makes those decisions. The wind was with us, then it changed. I almost screamed, 'Time out!' But I didn't. I should have."

Nystrom's attempt into a slight breeze barely reached the end zone, and the bumbling Badgers, playing without injured Michael Bennett, the nation's fourth-leading rusher, had new life.

Bollinger hit Nick Davis with a 45-yard touchdown pass that pulled Wisconsin to 12-10 at halftime and sparked a 17-0 run.

"You go into halftime with momentum and you don't feel so bad," Badgers coach Barry Alvarez said.
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The scary thing is that the guy that made decisions that dumb still won B1G games at almost twice the rate of a couple other people on the list.
 

Maximus said:
Wisconsin game 2000 - Chippewa Valley News

Minnesota led 12-3 with 1:20 left before halftime when Mason's peculiar call backfired.

On fourth-and-8 from the Badgers' 40, Mason opted to try a field goal even though he has the nation's leading punter in Preston Gruening, and kicker Dan Nystrom had already missed a short field goal and an extra point.

"It was a bad decision," Mason admitted. "My fault. I'm the one who makes those decisions. The wind was with us, then it changed. I almost screamed, 'Time out!' But I didn't. I should have."

Nystrom's attempt into a slight breeze barely reached the end zone, and the bumbling Badgers, playing without injured Michael Bennett, the nation's fourth-leading rusher, had new life.

Bollinger hit Nick Davis with a 45-yard touchdown pass that pulled Wisconsin to 12-10 at halftime and sparked a 17-0 run.

"You go into halftime with momentum and you don't feel so bad," Badgers coach Barry Alvarez said.
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Never thought I'd see a quote from the Chippewa Valley News in GopherHole.
 



josh087 said:
How the F@#* does Glen Mason have more votes than when I posted yesterday?
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Especially since Glen Mason has a higher overall winning percentage than Murray Warmath (.506) or Jerry Kill (.490).
 

EG#9 said:
Also, if we're going to include records in this discussion, then it should be Big Ten records and not overall records. Mason played a MUCH easier non-conference schedule than every other coach on that list.
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So, in a nutshell, you are saying what we should do is look only at BIG TEN WINS? That, at the end of the day, that will tell us where each dude or dudette, which ever the case may be, stands relative to the other coaches?
 

2nd Degree Gopher said:
So, in a nutshell, you are saying what we should do is look only at BIG TEN WINS? That, at the end of the day, that will tell us where each dude or dudette, which ever the case may be, stands relative to the other coaches?
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I don't think Big 10 wins is the only thing that matter, but it is significant to consider the differences in various coaches out of conference schedules. I found one Murray Warmath year where he had an 8 game B1G schedule, and 3 out of conference games of which two were against Big 12 schools and one was against a Pac-whatever school. He went 4-7 that year. I think it would be unfair to say that Brewster had an appreciably better year just due to winning percentage when he went 7-6 with an out of conference schedule that included Northern Illinois (a 6-7 NIU, not the NIU that was good a few years later), Bowling Green, Montana State, and Florida Atlantic.
 

2nd Degree Gopher said:
So, in a nutshell, you are saying what we should do is look only at BIG TEN WINS? That, at the end of the day, that will tell us where each dude or dudette, which ever the case may be, stands relative to the other coaches?
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Touch`e
 

2nd Degree Gopher said:
So, in a nutshell, you are saying what we should do is look only at BIG TEN WINS? That, at the end of the day, that will tell us where each dude or dudette, which ever the case may be, stands relative to the other coaches?
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Big Ten finishes under Mason, from 1997 through 2006; 9th tie, 7th tie, 4th tie, 5th tie, 10th tie, 7th, 4th tie, 8th, 7th, 6th tie. If you want to break the ties when possible, with overall record the Gophers would have finished 9th in '97, 7th in '98; 5th in '99, 6th in '00, tie for 10th '01, tie for 4th '03; and 6th in 2006 his last year.

So overall Mason's Big Ten Finishes ,breaking ties with overall records, were 9th, 7th, 5th, 6th, 10th, 7th, 4th, 8th, 7th, 6th.

Mason was the best coach between Stoll and Kill, but those records tell you how bad Gopher football has been overall between 1977 and 2013
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I don't think Big 10 wins is the only thing that matter, but it is significant to consider the differences in various coaches out of conference schedules. I found one Murray Warmath year where he had an 8 game B1G schedule, and 3 out of conference games of which two were against Big 12 schools and one was against a Pac-whatever school. He went 4-7 that year. I think it would be unfair to say that Brewster had an appreciably better year just due to winning percentage when he went 7-6 with an out of conference schedule that included Northern Illinois (a 6-7 NIU, not the NIU that was good a few years later), Bowling Green, Montana State, and Florida Atlantic.
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Compared to Non-Conference schedules of Warmath, Stoll, Salem, Holtz, Gutekunst and Wacker it would be a very unfair comparison. Compared to Mason and to a lesser extent Kill, it's a very valid comparison.
 

Mason's tenure would look pretty different if he had to play Michigan/Michigan State in 1999 and Ohio State/Purdue in 2003.

In Mase's 3rd year he didn't have to play 6-2 Michigan or 6-2 Michigan State. (5-3 Big Ten)

In Brew's 3rd year he didn't get to play 1-7 Michigan or 1-7 Indiana (3-5 Big Ten)

Those fickle schedule gods.
 

Maximus said:
Wisconsin game 2000 - Chippewa Valley News

Minnesota led 12-3 with 1:20 left before halftime when Mason's peculiar call backfired.

On fourth-and-8 from the Badgers' 40, Mason opted to try a field goal even though he has the nation's leading punter in Preston Gruening, and kicker Dan Nystrom had already missed a short field goal and an extra point.

"It was a bad decision," Mason admitted. "My fault. I'm the one who makes those decisions. The wind was with us, then it changed. I almost screamed, 'Time out!' But I didn't. I should have."

Nystrom's attempt into a slight breeze barely reached the end zone, and the bumbling Badgers, playing without injured Michael Bennett, the nation's fourth-leading rusher, had new life.

Bollinger hit Nick Davis with a 45-yard touchdown pass that pulled Wisconsin to 12-10 at halftime and sparked a 17-0 run.

"You go into halftime with momentum and you don't feel so bad," Badgers coach Barry Alvarez said.
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Bill Belichick made one of the worst coaching decisions of all time at the end of the Super Bowl - much worse than this Mason error. What is your point? It's all about the wins and losses.

I'd rather choke away a game to a quality team than never have a chance to win in the first place.
 

Maximus said:
Mason's tenure would look pretty different if he had to play Michigan/Michigan State in 1999 and Ohio State/Purdue in 2003.

In Mase's 3rd year he didn't have to play 6-2 Michigan or 6-2 Michigan State. (5-3 Big Ten)

In Brew's 3rd year he didn't get to play 1-7 Michigan or 1-7 Indiana (3-5 Big Ten)

Those fickle schedule gods.
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So, if we rearrange Mason's schedule so that he had to play the four tough teams you mentioned, assume that he would have lost all four of those games, and further assume that all four of those games would have replaced games which he won, and then also rearrange Brewster's schedule so that he got to play two easy teams that he missed, assume that he would have won both of those games (even though he lost to 2-6 Illinois that year and this hypothetical requires him to win a trophy game even though he never accomplished that feat despite having a chance to play the 2-6 Michigan team at home in his best year and squandered that by losing by more than 20), and further assume that those two games would have replaced games that he lost, then Brewster would have had a B1G winning percentage which would have almost been within 5% of Mason's?
 

Maximus said:
Mason's tenure would look pretty different if he had to play Michigan/Michigan State in 1999 and Ohio State/Purdue in 2003.

In Mase's 3rd year he didn't have to play 6-2 Michigan or 6-2 Michigan State. (5-3 Big Ten)

In Brew's 3rd year he didn't get to play 1-7 Michigan or 1-7 Indiana (3-5 Big Ten)

Those fickle schedule gods.
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Why'd you leave out the fact that Brewster got to play a 3-9 (2-6) Michigan team in his 2nd year AT HOME and got blown out? They also got blown out by Indiana the previous year. I'd say Brewster was lucky to avoid those two teams.
 

DMB123 said:
Why'd you leave out the fact that Brewster got to play a 3-9 (2-6) Michigan team in his 2nd year AT HOME and got blown out? They also got blown out by Indiana the previous year. I'd say Brewster was lucky to avoid those two teams.
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Agreed. If my quick schedule check was accurate (certainly not a given), Brewster was 3-8 at the U against B1G teams with sub-.500 conference records. I don't think too many games against tough opponents was his only problem.
 


DMB123 said:
Why'd you leave out the fact that Brewster got to play a 3-9 (2-6) Michigan team in his 2nd year AT HOME and got blown out? They also got blown out by Indiana the previous year. I'd say Brewster was lucky to avoid those two teams.
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Mason's 2nd year: 2-6
Brewster's 2nd year: 3-5 with a loss to 2-6 Michigan. Find me the Tyrone Carter that Brew inherited

**why is a loss to Indiana in year one relevant when he beat Indiana in year two?

In all seriousness....Brew don't compare to Mase...just miss debating wren
 

DMB123 said:
Brewster defenders are hilarious. They somehow bash Mason and defend Brewster all in one post. Pure delusion.
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You Mason defenders aren't any better. I'm not a defender of either. I win.


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I voted Wacker. The 1990's were truly abyss. Losing seasons from 1991-1998. The 5 wins in 1998 were the most since 1990. In Wacker's 5 years, 4 wins overall was the best the Gophers had. That era went a long way toward creating the perception that the Gophers had been abysmal since the 60's. Before the 90's the Gophers had been fairly mediocre, with a few really bad years.

There were, of course, individual seasons that were worse than the Wacker era, but it's the sustained losing of that era that makes me call it the worst.
 

[QUOTE=Word;1058046]EG#9's assessment of the remaining talent when Brewster took over is pretty spot-on. Would Mason have won more than 1 game with it? Probably (maybe 3-4 wins), but I think it's pretty safe to say the team was trending downward at that point. I had season tickets for both the Wacker and Brewster eras - Wacker was worse in my opinion. I'm too young to comment much on the pre-Holtz coaches.[/QUOTE]

The whole idea that Mason would not have found a way to win 6 games in 2007 with Amir Pinnix, Valentine, and a decent O line coming back is not credible. He also would have had Jack Simmons, Ernie Wheelwright, and Eric Decker to throw to. He also had Adam Weber coming in, who would have benefitted greatly from the Mason running game. Weber's mobility would have brought helped improve aspects of the offense as well.

Some players de-committed after Mason was fired including a great LB who went to Michigan State. We will never know if the infamous rape case that decimated the defense would have happened under Mason's watch. Mason ran a much tighter ship than Brewster did.

2008 under Mason 6-8 wins were easily attainable under Mason , which is why Brewster enraged me with his pathetic 1-11 record. Regardless of the talent drop his teams proved year and year out they could run over lesser teams, and usually squash them by impressive margins before the reality of the Big Ten set in.

almost certain wins Miami, Bowling Green, FAU - large margin wins

likely or very possible wins Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, No. Dakota State

sure losses Michigan, Ohio State

Possible wins Mich State, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois

Wikipedia:
September 1 7:00 PM Bowling Green* Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome • Minneapolis, MN BTN L 32–31 OT 49,253[6]
September 8 11:00 AM Miami (Ohio)* Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome • Minneapolis, MN BTN W 41–35 3OT 45,383[7]
September 15 12:00 PM at Florida Atlantic* Dolphin Stadium • Miami Gardens, FL ESPN360 L 42–39 10,759[8]
September 22 8:00 PM Purdue Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome • Minneapolis, MN ESPN2 L 45–31 47,483[9]
September 29 7:00 PM #8 Ohio State Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome • Minneapolis, MN ESPN2 L 30–7 51,611[10]
October 6 11:00 AM at Indiana Memorial Stadium • Bloomington, IN BTN L 40–20 32,009[11]
October 13 11:00 AM at Northwestern Ryan Field • Evanston, IL BTN L 49–48 2OT 23,314[12]
October 20 11:00 AM North Dakota State* Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome • Minneapolis, MN BTN L 27–21 63,088[13]
October 27 2:30 PM at #19 Michigan Michigan Stadium • Ann Arbor, MI (Little Brown Jug) ESPN Classic/ABC L 34–10 109,432[14]
November 3 7:00 PM Illinoisdagger Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome • Minneapolis, MN BTN L 44–17 46,604[15]
November 10 11:00 AM at Iowa Kinnick Stadium • Iowa City, IA (Floyd of Rosedale) BTN L 21–16 70,585[16]
November 17 2:30 PM Wisconsin Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome • Minneapolis, MN (Paul Bunyan's Axe) BTN L 41–34
 

oak_street1981 said:
We will never know if the infamous rape case that decimated the defense would have happened under Mason's watch.
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This may be the dumbest thing I have ever seen posted here. Are you kidding me? Brewster was on campus for like a minute and a half when this happened. WTF are you talking about? We do know. It would have. Not Mason's fault. Not Brewster's fault. Tighter ship. Nice post.


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