Sid: Strong indications that Regents will approve $40MM in borrowing for facilities

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tjgopher said:
You keep citing the $150 million as if it is only for the football complex. It isn't. It includes the basketball practice facilities, the Olympic sports upgrades, etc.

To keep in comparison: Iowa has now completed both a football complex and a basketball practice facility to the tune of about $115 million since 2011. I don't believe the Iowa plan included as many Olympic sports upgrade, nor the nutrition or academic center.
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The 150 doesn't include olympic sports upgrades. That is the later $40 million.
 

Gopho Sapiens said:
I have come to the realization that some GHers are never going to be happy.

What difference does it make if construction is started before they have cash in hand? The new facilities are being COMPLETELY FUNDED BY THE ATHLETIC DEPT.... THROUGH DONATIONS AND/OR INTERNAL FUNDING....INCLUDING LOANS! OMG, debt load! How will they survive?

The administration currently in place did not arrive as a carload of rubes from clown school. They MAY know what they are doing. It may come as a shock, but they may even understand the hows and whys and whens of the matter!

You do realize the school is trying to clean up FIFTY years of neglect, don't you? FIFTY YEARS OF IT!!!

This University was built on excellence....academic excellence, artistic excellence, athletic excellence.

Excellence...It isn't easy and it's certainly not cheap, but it is worth it.

Personally, I am glad they came out and said they are going to build it, even if they have to finance it. It's the type of commitment the U has been lacking for the last half century.
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+1 Financing a portion of capital improvements with a useful life of at least 30-40 years is hardly unusual. In fact it's commonplace.
 

vagopher said:
+1 Financing a portion of capital improvements with a useful life of at least 30-40 years is hardly unusual. In fact it's commonplace.
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Particularly with interest rates so low.
 

Gopho Sapiens said:
I have come to the realization that some GHers are never going to be happy.

What difference does it make if construction is started before they have cash in hand? The new facilities are being COMPLETELY FUNDED BY THE ATHLETIC DEPT.... THROUGH DONATIONS AND/OR INTERNAL FUNDING....INCLUDING LOANS! OMG, debt load! How will they survive?

The administration currently in place did not arrive as a carload of rubes from clown school. They MAY know what they are doing. It may come as a shock, but they may even understand the hows and whys and whens of the matter!

You do realize the school is trying to clean up FIFTY years of neglect, don't you? FIFTY YEARS OF IT!!!

This University was built on excellence....academic excellence, artistic excellence, athletic excellence.

Excellence...It isn't easy and it's certainly not cheap, but it is worth it.

Personally, I am glad they came out and said they are going to build it, even if they have to finance it. It's the type of commitment the U has been lacking for the last half century.
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vagopher said:
+1 Financing a portion of capital improvements with a useful life of at least 30-40 years is hardly unusual. In fact it's commonplace.
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zman said:
Particularly with interest rates so low.
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I'll check with GW and get back to you guys.:rolleyes:
 

vagopher said:
+1 Financing a portion of capital improvements with a useful life of at least 30-40 years is hardly unusual. In fact it's commonplace.
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With the arms race the way it is, do we really think that this facility will have a useful life of 30-40 years? I give it 10 years before we have people saying we need major upgrades just to stay competitive.
 


bleedsmaroonandgold said:
With the arms race the way it is, do we really think that this facility will have a useful life of 30-40 years? I give it 10 years before we have people saying we need major upgrades just to stay competitive.
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Anything is possible but the current buildings are 30+. The current indoor facility (dubbed the Taj MaHoltz by the local media as it was built as a condition for Holtz to come here) is over 30. The Bierman building was built in the 70's.
 

Gopho Sapiens said:
I have come to the realization that some GHers are never going to be happy.

What difference does it make if construction is started before they have cash in hand? The new facilities are being COMPLETELY FUNDED BY THE ATHLETIC DEPT.... THROUGH DONATIONS AND/OR INTERNAL FUNDING....INCLUDING LOANS! OMG, debt load! How will they survive?

The administration currently in place did not arrive as a carload of rubes from clown school. They MAY know what they are doing. It may come as a shock, but they may even understand the hows and whys and whens of the matter!

You do realize the school is trying to clean up FIFTY years of neglect, don't you? FIFTY YEARS OF IT!!!

This University was built on excellence....academic excellence, artistic excellence, athletic excellence.

Excellence...It isn't easy and it's certainly not cheap, but it is worth it.

Personally, I am glad they came out and said they are going to build it, even if they have to finance it. It's the type of commitment the U has been lacking for the last half century.
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This what I like in Kaler and what he brings to the UM. He understands the value of a solid athletic department to a university, especially football and hoops. Facilities are a vital part of it all. Plus he made a commitment with a seven year contract for Coach Kill to give him the time to put his plan in place.

Having a vision and commitment for the future in the AD is what has been lacking for decades from the UM leadership. At least Bruninks saw the value of bringing football back on campus.
 

Gopho Sapiens said:
I have come to the realization that some GHers are never going to be happy.

What difference does it make if construction is started before they have cash in hand? The new facilities are being COMPLETELY FUNDED BY THE ATHLETIC DEPT.... THROUGH DONATIONS AND/OR INTERNAL FUNDING....INCLUDING LOANS! OMG, debt load! How will they survive?

The administration currently in place did not arrive as a carload of rubes from clown school. They MAY know what they are doing. It may come as a shock, but they may even understand the hows and whys and whens of the matter!

You do realize the school is trying to clean up FIFTY years of neglect, don't you? FIFTY YEARS OF IT!!!

This University was built on excellence....academic excellence, artistic excellence, athletic excellence.

Excellence...It isn't easy and it's certainly not cheap, but it is worth it.

Personally, I am glad they came out and said they are going to build it, even if they have to finance it. It's the type of commitment the U has been lacking for the last half century.
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I agree this project is necessary, and they do need to get it done in order to attract recruits. I'm glad it's happening, and the sooner the better.
BUT - when this project started, the powers-that-be at the U said it would be funded completely by donations. They also said that the project would not be started until they had raised 80% of the funds needed to begin - or about $120 million dollars.

Now, we're being told that the U is borrowing $40 million to get the project started. Look, I get it - plans change. Maybe the fundraising goals were overly optimistic, or the funds haven't come in as quickly as hoped. But, the $20 million loan from the athletic department isn't chicken feed. That is money that would otherwise be going to fund other athletic needs. And, as D1 moves to full cost of education, there will be additional costs that the athletic department needs to cover. I am NOT questioning the honesty or ability of the U administration. I am simply pointing out that the details of this project seem to be changing. I hope the fund-raising efforts continue and they are able to raise all of the money needed to complete the project in a first-class manner. And I do not take debt lightly. every dollar spent paying interest on a loan is a dollar not being spent for other athletic needs.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I agree this project is necessary, and they do need to get it done in order to attract recruits. I'm glad it's happening, and the sooner the better.
BUT - when this project started, the powers-that-be at the U said it would be funded completely by donations. They also said that the project would not be started until they had raised 80% of the funds needed to begin - or about $120 million dollars.

Now, we're being told that the U is borrowing $40 million to get the project started. Look, I get it - plans change. Maybe the fundraising goals were overly optimistic, or the funds haven't come in as quickly as hoped. But, the $20 million loan from the athletic department isn't chicken feed. That is money that would otherwise be going to fund other athletic needs. And, as D1 moves to full cost of education, there will be additional costs that the athletic department needs to cover. I am NOT questioning the honesty or ability of the U administration. I am simply pointing out that the details of this project seem to be changing. I hope the fund-raising efforts continue and they are able to raise all of the money needed to complete the project in a first-class manner. And I do not take debt lightly. every dollar spent paying interest on a loan is a dollar not being spent for other athletic needs.
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Well at least you're living up to your username. :D
 



short ornery norwegian said:
I agree this project is necessary, and they do need to get it done in order to attract recruits. I'm glad it's happening, and the sooner the better.
BUT - when this project started, the powers-that-be at the U said it would be funded completely by donations. They also said that the project would not be started until they had raised 80% of the funds needed to begin - or about $120 million dollars.

Now, we're being told that the U is borrowing $40 million to get the project started. Look, I get it - plans change. Maybe the fundraising goals were overly optimistic, or the funds haven't come in as quickly as hoped. But, the $20 million loan from the athletic department isn't chicken feed. That is money that would otherwise be going to fund other athletic needs. And, as D1 moves to full cost of education, there will be additional costs that the athletic department needs to cover. I am NOT questioning the honesty or ability of the U administration. I am simply pointing out that the details of this project seem to be changing. I hope the fund-raising efforts continue and they are able to raise all of the money needed to complete the project in a first-class manner. And I do not take debt lightly. every dollar spent paying interest on a loan is a dollar not being spent for other athletic needs.
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I think Sid got the borrowing source wrong. The athletic department is borrowing from the general fund, and paying it back based on future revenues, mainly TV and other media. The full cost of education is the reason for the increase in donation based seating.
 


If the current Sid blurb is correct (this is assuming A LOT) I consider this entire venture a success. There are plenty of economic/moral objections that hold water, but we are entering a point in history where all of this is necessary to compete at a fundamental level. The University of Minnesota has been playing with one hand tied behind our back for 30+ years, we are finally dipping our toe into the deep end of the pool. It may feel uncomfortable to some, but if we are unwilling to spend illogical amounts of money to cater to athletic young men we shouldn't be shocked when he are constant underdogs. Once all of this is completed, we will be on an equal level with our immediate peers and can truly analyze the results. As it stands right now, we should just be happy we're not Purdue. This is big time college football, and we can either beg, borrow and steal to get things done or stand back and become irrelevant.
 

GopherHomer said:
If the current Sid blurb is correct (this is assuming A LOT) I consider this entire venture a success. There are plenty of economic/moral objections that hold water, but we are entering a point in history where all of this is necessary to compete at a fundamental level. The University of Minnesota has been playing with one hand tied behind our back for 30+ years, we are finally dipping our toe into the deep end of the pool. It may feel uncomfortable to some, but if we are unwilling to spend illogical amounts of money to cater to athletic young men we shouldn't be shocked when he are constant underdogs. Once all of this is completed, we will be on an equal level with our immediate peers and can truly analyze the results. As it stands right now, we should just be happy we're not Purdue. This is big time college football, and we can either beg, borrow and steal to get things done or stand back and become irrelevant.
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Nice post. I'd add that if the "big time sports ship" truly gets turned around, this might be a watershed moment. Crap, in 10-15 years, it might even be remembered as an investment.

Food for thought for all the penny pinchers.
 



Bayfieldgopher said:
[/B]

This what I like in Kaler and what he brings to the UM. He understands the value of a solid athletic department to a university, especially football and hoops. Facilities are a vital part of it all. Plus he made a commitment with a seven year contract for Coach Kill to give him the time to put his plan in place.

Having a vision and commitment for the future in the AD is what has been lacking for decades from the UM leadership. At least Bruninks saw the value of bringing football back on campus.
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Well said.
 

Athletics are always a target because of how important they are to not only the University but to the community and surrounding area. No one here is complaining about some of the new buildings at the U that will bring no revenue at all. This new practice facility is just one large step in furthering our athletics which is quite possibly the most revenue a school brings in besides tuition (admittedly this is a guess, I have no facts to support that statement). Athletics are the lifeblood of a University and will always be a hot button issue because of its public visibility. This visibility could be what has raised our admission standards immensely in the last decade; B1G network, bowl games, NCAA tourneys etc all play a part in putting the U on the map for High School Juniors and Seniors choosing their college whether they are athletes or otherwise.
 

Ski U Mah Gopher said:
I think Sid got the borrowing source wrong. The athletic department is borrowing from the general fund, and paying it back based on future revenues, mainly TV and other media.
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Curious as to your source / understanding? That would be great news and is something LNH has pushed for since day one. It would be an incredibly big backtrack and change from Teague and the University, but it's needed.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Curious as to your source / understanding? That would be great news and is something LNH has pushed for since day one. It would be an incredibly big backtrack and change from Teague and the University, but it's needed.
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That has been how all the athletic department borrowing from the U has been.

It would be hard to borrow from your own department. And borrowing from endowments is a big no-no.

From the beginning, the U said no outside funds, and by the time it is paid for, there will be no funds outside of U funds used. And the general fund will be paid back. It is basically acting as the athletic department's bank.
 

Ski U Mah Gopher said:
That has been how all the athletic department borrowing from the U has been.

It would be hard to borrow from your own department. And borrowing from endowments is a big no-no.

From the beginning, the U said no outside funds, and by the time it is paid for, there will be no funds outside of U funds used. And the general fund will be paid back. It is basically acting as the athletic department's bank.
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Got it - you're just assuming.

You said it would be paid back with future revenues. That would not be in-line "Funded entirely by private donations to the athletics department." If the U came out and said "we're going to fund this partly by revenues generated by the athletics department" that would be a huge change. Again, though,... one that is reasonable (just should have been done long ago and now should be done soon). We shall see...
 

I'm glad that any time anything changes throughout this entire process we'll have GW right beside us to shout about how he was right and the athletic department was wrong, while failing completely to acknowledge that there may be a strategic component to going to market with a bolder plan than what ultimately ends up transpiring...
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Everything's changed AND they will NOT have the $70MM (overstated?) "in hand" for another DECADE.

The plan as initially set forth was ridiculous. It's changed and will continue to change. It has too.
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What is your fascination with the fact that they initially set a 180/190M goal and will now scale back to 150M?

Isn't that usually the plan in fundraising, shoot for the stars and after the dust settles scale back to reality? Who cares that a 150M facility is getting built, as opposed to the 190M that was originally planned. I'm extremely confused as to why you continually make it seem like an issue when it's irrelevant. 150M to me still seems over-board, I'd like to see it scaled back a bit more.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Curious as to your source / understanding? That would be great news and is something LNH has pushed for since day one. It would be an incredibly big backtrack and change from Teague and the University, but it's needed.
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Why is it needed? Do you take issue with any University using general/state funds to invest in for-profit sports, or just Minnesota? Would a $20M investment from the University be a bad thing? Would a positive sports culture at the U benefit the school more than the $20M in the long-run?

Your views on Teague are interesting (and really weird). And who is LNH? Someone at the University?
 

sonnygarcia said:
Why is it needed? Do you take issue with any University using general/state funds to invest in for-profit sports, or just Minnesota? Would a $20M investment from the University be a bad thing? Would a positive sports culture at the U benefit the school more than the $20M in the long-run? Your views on Teague are interesting (and really weird). And who is LNH? Someone at the University?
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He thinks he's the next Reusse or Souhan in training. Lol
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Curious as to your source / understanding? That would be great news and is something LNH has pushed for since day one. It would be an incredibly big backtrack and change from Teague and the University, but it's needed.
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LNH! LOL!

You mean you and over-inflated ego. What a clown show!
 

sonnygarcia said:
What is your fascination with the fact that they initially set a 180/190M goal and will now scale back to 150M?

Isn't that usually the plan in fundraising, shoot for the stars and after the dust settles scale back to reality? Who cares that a 150M facility is getting built, as opposed to the 190M that was originally planned. I'm extremely confused as to why you continually make it seem like an issue when it's irrelevant. 150M to me still seems over-board, I'd like to see it scaled back a bit more.
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A couple things. First, the overall plan is still $190 million. Phase I which includes football facilities, a football indoor field, a basketball facility and the academic center of excellence is only $150 million. The later $40 million will be used on underground parking and renovations to existing facilities including the current indoor field, offices and new wrestling and gymnastics facilities. All of that can be added later

Second, why would you not want the gophers to have as good of facilities as they can possibly muster and be as competitive and committed as possible? Nobody is being forced to donate.
 



Who cares how it gets done as long as it GETS DONE!!! Good grief let it go! :rolleyes:
 

Dr. Don,

What is the prescribed treatment for fixation down behinder?
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Got it - you're just assuming.

You said it would be paid back with future revenues. That would not be in-line "Funded entirely by private donations to the athletics department." If the U came out and said "we're going to fund this partly by revenues generated by the athletics department" that would be a huge change. Again, though,... one that is reasonable (just should have been done long ago and now should be done soon). We shall see...
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Good News. Just recalled how to block posters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

sonnygarcia said:
What is your fascination with the fact that they initially set a 180/190M goal and will now scale back to 150M?

Isn't that usually the plan in fundraising, shoot for the stars and after the dust settles scale back to reality? Who cares that a 150M facility is getting built, as opposed to the 190M that was originally planned. I'm extremely confused as to why you continually make it seem like an issue when it's irrelevant. 150M to me still seems over-board, I'd like to see it scaled back a bit more.
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You're misreading me if you think I have made the $190MM having been scaled back an issue - the issue is that it HASN'T been scaled back. We agree - the amounts are overboard, but it's still a "$190MM campaign to be entirely funded by private donations." That is ridiculous and needs to change. The only thing that has changed - per public comments from the U - is that the scope of the project has been reduced (still $190MM, just getting less for that $190MM). Specifically, the teardown of Bierman and new buildings for various sports was the initial plan. Now, the plan is to re-purpose existing structures. Same price tag.

sonnygarcia said:
Why is it needed? Do you take issue with any University using general/state funds to invest in for-profit sports, or just Minnesota? Would a $20M investment from the University be a bad thing? Would a positive sports culture at the U benefit the school more than the $20M in the long-run?
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I'm not arguing against ANY of this. In fact, I have consistently argued FOR this. My issue is not only the high $190MM price tag, but the bigger issue is that the plan is to fund the project entirely via private donations to the athletic department. Hop over to the main page at NothingShortOfGreatness.com - it's right there for anyone to read. Nothing confusing about it:

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Now, two years ago the article Minnesota's Facilities Plan Set Up For Failure was published. In it we said the following. Hopefully this helps your understanding of where I stand.

LateNightHoops.com said:
The smart move, in our opinion, would be to push for the allocation of current revenue streams (i.e., media contracts) to fund a practice facility project. This course of action may prove to be inevitable, but at a minimum a long delay in getting construction started due to an insistence that money be fully privately funded will continue to adversely affect the program....

...If an allocation of existing revenues or long-term debt is issued with a “plan” to pay back with future fundraising efforts, you’ve got a chance to put some money into facilities. But unless someone has $150MM+ they want to hand over to Gopher athletics, it’s incredibly difficult to imagine anywhere near $190 million in private funding.
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Again, there are now rumors of the U doing what they should have already done... and, if they start construction this summer/fall by following the ideas presented by LNH a couple of years ago - that is great! It doesn't change the fact that some time has been wasted and it does present potential for folks to be upset because this would be a huge change from "funded entirely by private donations to the athletic department," but I still believe it's what is necessary unless you get an enormous gift from someone.
 

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