Long view or pressure cooker?

balds

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I'm a long view type. Give me 3 recruiting classes like the '15's (and Hurt). I'm not knocking the ability of anyone we have signed, but I don't get the spring chase. We know it's going to take time, we are OK with a slow build (football). It seems that Pitino has been told he has to win and win NOW. If I had my way, slow down and build through HS recruiting. Full disclosure, I've never held or been offered a head coaching or AD position,so it's quite possible I have no idea what I'm talking about.
 

I'm a long view type. Give me 3 recruiting classes like the '15's (and Hurt). I'm not knocking the ability of anyone we have signed, but I don't get the spring chase. We know it's going to take time, we are OK with a slow build (football). It seems that Pitino has been told he has to win and win NOW. If I had my way, slow down and build through HS recruiting. Full disclosure, I've never held or been offered a head coaching or AD position,so it's quite possible I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Not sure i agree with this. He took 2 projects(gaston konate) last year who could be great in another year but not yet. This year he took some good players(johnson, McBrayer, Dorsey) and some kids to grow(Gilbert, Nwankwo) and an insurance policy in case those projects don't work out(Lynch). that looks like a coach trying to win in 2 years not this year.

Basketball is also different than football. 1 recruit can make a top 25 team.
 

Can we agree that it's better to sign full classes of HS'ers and not relying on transfers/Juco's?
 

Can we agree that it's better to sign full classes of HS'ers and not relying on transfers/Juco's?

When Kansas(Tarik Black), Duke(Seth Curry, Sean Obi) and MSU(Bryn Forbes, Eron Harris) use transfers in the last few years(not a comprehensive list) I can't agree with that statement. Though those players shouldn't be the best ones on the roster.
 

Refresh my memory, did they add those players to a roster of other transfers/Juco's?
 


When Kansas(Tarik Black), Duke(Seth Curry, Sean Obi) and MSU(Bryn Forbes, Eron Harris) use transfers in the last few years(not a comprehensive list) I can't agree with that statement. Though those players shouldn't be the best ones on the roster.

Pitino Sr is bringing in a couple Senior transfers this year as well. He has relied on JUCO/Transfers recently as well. Chris Jones was JUCO POtY and Luke Hancock was a transfer from George Mason.

I really don't care where the talent comes from. When you have a situation like ours where you have 7 open scholarships, it's not really smart to bring in 7 HS recruits, unless you plan on redshirting a couple guys. Not a big fan of redshirting anyways, only in certain circumstances.
 

Pitino Sr is bringing in a couple Senior transfers this year as well. He has relied on JUCO/Transfers recently as well. Chris Jones was JUCO POtY and Luke Hancock was a transfer from George Mason. I really don't care where the talent comes from. When you have a situation like ours where you have 7 open scholarships, it's not really smart to bring in 7 HS recruits, unless you plan on redshirting a couple guys. Not a big fan of redshirting anyways, only in certain circumstances.

As Balds said, those teams are bringing in transfers to teams made up of a solid core of players signed out of high school. ISU is really the only school I can think of that has a bulk of their roster as transfers.
 

Why are people freaking out over Pitino signing people? Are we scared we are only going to have 2 scholarships open next year and that's how we will miss out on Coffey or some big stud blue chip (right sid) recruit?

I am willing to bet my entire wealth that we will have more than 2 signed basketball players in the 2016 class. There will be plenty of room for any guy Pitino wants to bring in.

Freaking out over Pitino taking a kid that was an early commitment to a A10 school is completely different then reaching on an overseas recruit or an unheard of 0* like we've seen in past years. Lynch is a very low risk guy filling an obvious hole in our roster.

SETTLE fellas.
 

Not sure i agree with this. He took 2 projects(gaston konate) last year who could be great in another year but not yet. This year he took some good players(johnson, McBrayer, Dorsey) and some kids to grow(Gilbert, Nwankwo) and an insurance policy in case those projects don't work out(Lynch). that looks like a coach trying to win in 2 years not this year.

Basketball is also different than football. 1 recruit can make a top 25 team.

Bingo!
 



Can we agree that it's better to sign full classes of HS'ers and not relying on transfers/Juco's?

Ya but were not in a position to do that. You also need bodies to run an effective practice. Keep in mind when we signed four everyone thought we were done with recruiting for 2015.
 

Can we agree that it's better to sign full classes of HS'ers and not relying on transfers/Juco's?

Of course, but he needs to balance out the classes a little. We are not Kentucky where they have 7 players leave each year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Not sure i agree with this. He took 2 projects(gaston konate) last year who could be great in another year but not yet. This year he took some good players(johnson, McBrayer, Dorsey) and some kids to grow(Gilbert, Nwankwo) and an insurance policy in case those projects don't work out(Lynch). that looks like a coach trying to win in 2 years not this year.

Basketball is also different than football. 1 recruit can make a top 25 team.

Not sure I agree with this. A solid team, such as the one Pitino is endeavoring to build has to be in place first. THEN a star can turn the team into a top 25 team. Was Nebraska a top 25 team with Petteway?
 

Not sure I agree with this. A solid team, such as the one Pitino is endeavoring to build has to be in place first. THEN a star can turn the team into a top 25 team. Was Nebraska a top 25 team with Petteway?

Terran Petteway was a 3 star recruit(rivals). I was thinking more along the lines of a consensus 5 star player...
 



Another thread assuming all spring recruits are like Tubby spring recruits. They are not all Plan C or worse guys. I am a long view guy as well, but I disagree with the idea that all recruits have to be high school kids signed in the fall. A coach wants to win as soon as he can. It helps recruiting High School kids and everyone else. Some of these kids were signed by one coach and he left. That doesn't make them plan B guys. Some guys are actually attending a school where the staff changed and they are not playing the system thy thought they would be playing. That doesn't make them Plan B guys. Some guys have been stuck in a bad program for four years and want to win. We don't have to like the idea of senior transfers, but it doesn't make them Plan B guys. Finally, some kids just don't get offers they want and develop during heir senior year. They may be a Plan B guy, but that may not mean they will not be good players. Plan B guys are only a problem if a coach takes them because he is desperate a they can't play, aka Tubby.
I would love to get Boucher, getting a player who is immediately competitive with the best guys we face makes it more fun for everyone, including the other players on the team.
Kids want PT, but PT on a losing team is not that much fun. Maybe with the exception of Duke, I don't think there is any leading program in the country that would not take a very good JC player if he really filled a need. There is no reason a program being rebuilt should do it the hard way and get their butt kicked for four years if the coach can speed up the process and still develop young players
 



Can we agree that it's better to sign full classes of HS'ers and not relying on transfers/Juco's?

No, I don't think we can agree on that. Transfers and Juco players have two attributes over high schoolers:

1) greater physical maturity and 2) lower risk. They have lower risk because they have already demonstrated that they are capable of 1) playing at a more advanced level and 2) meeting goals (like academics) in a freer and less structured environment with more distractions and temptations.

Fred Hoiberg's strategy of including a significant number of transfers and Jucos each year has been very successful so I don't know why any program outside of the top recruiting programs would refuse to incorporate at least some of that strategy.
 

It's going to be hard to get recruiting classes like '15 for several more seasons without better results on the court. In a hypothetical scenario where Pitino goes 6-12 or worse again net year it's going to be really hard to attract out of state kids with good offers in '17. Time will tell how we do in '16 coming off a down year, the departure rumors, and the loss of Coach McHale.

Basketball recruiting is very different than football recruiting in that you get to watch the top prospects play against other top prospects in actual games. There are fewer surprises/sleepers (though they do exist) so it really forces you to win recruiting battles and to do that you have to have something to sell. That's why I am personally in favor of acquiring talent through all possible means. We'd never be allowed to take as many chances as Iowa State does, but it would be nice to see us do it occasionally.
 

It's going to be hard to get recruiting classes like '15 for several more seasons without better results on the court. In a hypothetical scenario where Pitino goes 6-12 or worse again net year it's going to be really hard to attract out of state kids with good offers in '17. Time will tell how we do in '16 coming off a down year, the departure rumors, and the loss of Coach McHale.

Basketball recruiting is very different than football recruiting in that you get to watch the top prospects play against other top prospects in actual games. There are fewer surprises/sleepers (though they do exist) so it really forces you to win recruiting battles and to do that you have to have something to sell. That's why I am personally in favor of acquiring talent through all possible means. We'd never be allowed to take as many chances as Iowa State does, but it would be nice to see us do it occasionally.


Buckles (transfer, though didn't get here)
Smith (transfer)
Mathieu (juco)
King (transfer)
Lofton (transfer)
Morris (juco)
Konate (overseas)
Deidhiou (overseas)
Lynch (transfer)

I don't know EG#9, Pitino seems to me like he looks under every rock.
 

Buckles (transfer, though didn't get here)
Mathieu (juco)
King (transfer)
Lofton (transfer)
Morris (juco)
Konate (overseas)
Deidhiou (overseas)
Lynch (transfer)

I don't know EG#9, Pitino seems to me like he looks under every rock.

Oh I agree that Pitino looks under every rock. What I meant by chances was someone who is available due to some sort of a behavioral issue such as Kane, White, Lucious and others at Iowa State. The Foster kid from Kansas State that ended up transferring to Creighton would be a non Iowa State example.
 




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