Reusse on Pitino this yr: worst coaching job the Gophers have had since 1970-71

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SelectionSunday said:
I like Reusse, but an it's overstatement to say it was that bad. Still, that doesn't change the fact this team underperformed. Underperforming teams happen. Can live with that. What amuses me is when the narrative changes ("the talent wasn't that good") after the fact. Our personnel, experience, and don't forget schedule demanded better than a 6-12 record and a feeble 1st-day appearance in the BTT (1 of the bottom 4).
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Talent narrative changed?
Ok, so tell me how many of the seniors would have started on the top teams in the B1G?


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alchemy2u said:
Talent narrative changed? Ok, so tell me how many of the seniors would have started on the top teams in the B1G? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I think a few teams could have used post scoring like Mo provides.

Nate or Andre could have been pretty good for some teams as well.
 

scher215 said:
I think a few teams could have used post scoring like Mo provides.

Nate or Andre could have been pretty good for some teams as well.
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Nate is a freshman. I don't think Mo, DeAndre or Andre would have started at Wisc, MSU, Maryland or other top teams. I am not trying to cut them down, I love them all, but they were not conference beaters.


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scher215 said:
Does that mean we get to make his salary and have a potentially national platform too?
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National platform? My guess is that at least half of the people of this state have no idea who he is and I would be surprised if more than a million of the roughly 315 million people outside of this state know about him.
 

cjbfbp said:
National platform? My guess is that at least half of the people of this state have no idea who he is and I would be surprised if more than a million of the roughly 315 million people outside of this state know about him.
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That must be why Amelia was the number one source when it came to Pitino/Alabama rumors on national television network ESPN. The Strib is nationally relevant if they produce content that is such. Luckily, no matter what I post on Gopherhole it isn't treated the same way.

In fact, look what happened when ole Pat tweeted a joke that The big 3 all eliminated MN. it picked up national relevance and many sites ran with it as fact.
 


scher215 said:
That must be why Amelia was the number one source when it came to Pitino/Alabama rumors on national television network ESPN. The Strib is nationally relevant if they produce content that is such. Luckily, no matter what I post on Gopherhole it isn't treated the same way.

In fact, look what happened when ole Pat tweeted a joke that The big 3 all eliminated MN. it picked up national relevance and many sites ran with it as fact.
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OK, I'll give you that. I had forgotten that online journalism today heavily consists of browsing the web and reposting other people's work. Still, I don't think many people would remember the sources of those stories even if the sources bit them in the ass.
 

alchemy2u said:
Talent narrative changed?
Ok, so tell me how many of the seniors would have started on the top teams in the B1G?


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The talent narrative absolutely changed. Before the start of B1G this year, hardly anyone (national media predictions or local fans) would have said "this team is not very deep, not very talented, should finish 6-12, not even sniff the NCAA tournament, and probably will even miss the NIT". A lot of people were predicting us to end up on the right side of the NCAA bubble based on the depth and talent we had on our roster.

However, as soon as the team imploded, all of a sudden people come out of the woodwork and start to make statements like "hey, we can't expect Pitino to do much more with this lack of talent and depth."

With our storied history, Pitino has some stiff competition for worst coaching job of the last 40+ years (especially from the guy who screwed up the job so bad that not only did they take away all of our wins for a few seasons, but also imposed lengthy sanctions on the program). However, in my humble and admittedly entirely subjective opinion, based on the pieces we had in place this season, the results we got were absolute horse crap. We can look for all the silver linings that we want, but at the end of the day the proof is in the pudding, and our pudding was near the bottom of the Big Ten sitting on its couch to watch other teams play postseason basketball.
 

It was a disappointing season, but to say it was worse than 97-98, 03-04, 06-07 or 10-11 is ridiculous.
 

cjbfbp said:
OK, I'll give you that. I had forgotten that online journalism today heavily consists of browsing the web and reposting other people's work. Still, I don't think many people would remember the sources of those stories even if the sources bit them in the ass.
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True, not many people in Florida are checking daily for the latest Reusse article lol I could have clarified it has the potential to be a national audience, but you're right, not many people outside of the state follow the writings of Pat.
 



Not many people IN the State of Minnesota follow him.
 

I think Reusse's guilty of trolling with this and certainly of hyperbole.

That said, questions are being asked about what the heck happened with last year's team, and that's as it should be. As many have noted, it's too easy to say we didn't have the talent. Better to say we didn't get performance. Key players regressed, which is troubling.

Reading between the lines of things that have been said and written around town, I think Pitino is very much at a loss to explain what happened. It seems like he's grasping for an explanation, too. It may be beyond his understanding, especially not having had a long career for perspective and experience. I believe he's capable and eager to learn from this, if only he can figure out what went wrong.

SS is right - underperforming teams/seasons happen, even to the best of them. I'm on record as loving Tim Miles, and look what happened to him and his team. I wonder, too, what the explanation is over there.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I think Reusse's guilty of trolling with this and certainly of hyperbole.

That said, questions are being asked about what the heck happened with last year's team, and that's as it should be. As many have noted, it's too easy to say we didn't have the talent. Better to say we didn't get performance. Key players regressed, which is troubling.

Reading between the lines of things that have been said and written around town, I think Pitino is very much at a loss to explain what happened. It seems like he's grasping for an explanation, too. It may be beyond his understanding, especially not having had a long career for perspective and experience. I believe he's capable and eager to learn from this, if only he can figure out what went wrong.

SS is right - underperforming teams/seasons happen, even to the best of them. I'm on record as loving Tim Miles, and look what happened to him and his team. I wonder, too, what the explanation is over there.
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What happened at Nebraska is similar to what happened here. An over performing season led to unrealistic expectations the following season that in hind sight were unjustified based on the talent on the floor. I have no idea if Miles (or Pitino for that matter) did a good or bad job coaching, but in Nebraska's situation for sure, they benefited the previous season from sneaking up on people, the hype of a new arena and the rub of the green on the schedule. All that led people to believe they were better than they actually were. All told, I think we more under performed than the Cornhuskers this year, though.

I think we'll see this repeat itself with more middling B1G teams as the unbalanced schedule becomes more significant with more teams. I'm waiting for the day when some mediocre team squeezes out a regular season championship because they played the top four teams only once and the low information media and fans declare a new powerhouse only to have it go from first to tenth in one year.

This whole conversation does show the general tendency to universalize particular moments or periods. One great season and people scream greatness, and one bad season and they scream incompetence. Neither is true nor fair. Let things play out a bit before declaring history.
 

Reusse was offering the comparison as opinion, not fact, and it wasn't intended to be taken literally as there was no way to make a valid statistical comparison. The point that he was making was that Pitino took a team with above average talent and experience (three seniors and two juniors in the starting five) and achieved a below average outcome.

I think that he is particularly unforgiving of guys who he perceives as being bullsh$tters and it appears that he has decided that Pitino is in that club. He hated Holtz, Brew, "Remarkable Mike" Lynn and I think he'd like to hate "Country Jer's" aw shucks persona but the football team is producing. He's gone relatively easy on the Twins and the Wolves because he perceives Ryan, Gardenhire (when he was managing), Taylor and Flip as non bullsh$tters.
 



Holy Man said:
What happened at Nebraska is similar to what happened here. An over performing season led to unrealistic expectations the following season that in hind sight were unjustified based on the talent on the floor. I have no idea if Miles (or Pitino for that matter) did a good or bad job coaching, but in Nebraska's situation for sure, they benefited the previous season from sneaking up on people, the hype of a new arena and the rub of the green on the schedule. All that led people to believe they were better than they actually were. All told, I think we more under performed than the Cornhuskers this year, though.

I think we'll see this repeat itself with more middling B1G teams as the unbalanced schedule becomes more significant with more teams. I'm waiting for the day when some mediocre team squeezes out a regular season championship because they played the top four teams only once and the low information media and fans declare a new powerhouse only to have it go from first to tenth in one year.

This whole conversation does show the general tendency to universalize particular moments or periods. One great season and people scream greatness, and one bad season and they scream incompetence. Neither is true nor fair. Let things play out a bit before declaring history.
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Did you really think this year's expectations were unrealistic? I didn't think there was anything overperforming about last year's team. Big Mo's body transformation helped, and Lil Dre was a pleasant surprise. The feeling seems to be a lot of players took a step backwards this year, and you can debate whether that is true, but I don't think it is very controversial to claim that nobody really took a big step forward (maybe Buggs, but he was still too far away from being a key cog in the 2014-15 team). Freshman Mason was the only pleasant surprise in my book. Perhaps the best evidence that we underperformed was how many close games we lost. We did very poorly in games that were tight down the stretch, and blew some late big leads. Our talent level was enough to get us up by 9 or 10 points against Purdue and Michigan through 30ish minutes of basketball.

As for declaring history, I am not going to use this season in isolation to make any long term predictions about Pitino, but I really don't think I am being unfair by saying that the results this year were garbage when you consider the players we had on the roster, and Pitino deserves a fair amount of blame for that.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
The talent narrative absolutely changed. Before the start of B1G this year, hardly anyone (national media predictions or local fans) would have said "this team is not very deep, not very talented, should finish 6-12, not even sniff the NCAA tournament, and probably will even miss the NIT". A lot of people were predicting us to end up on the right side of the NCAA bubble based on the depth and talent we had on our roster.

However, as soon as the team imploded, all of a sudden people come out of the woodwork and start to make statements like "hey, we can't expect Pitino to do much more with this lack of talent and depth."

With our storied history, Pitino has some stiff competition for worst coaching job of the last 40+ years (especially from the guy who screwed up the job so bad that not only did they take away all of our wins for a few seasons, but also imposed lengthy sanctions on the program). However, in my humble and admittedly entirely subjective opinion, based on the pieces we had in place this season, the results we got were absolute horse crap. We can look for all the silver linings that we want, but at the end of the day the proof is in the pudding, and our pudding was near the bottom of the Big Ten sitting on its couch to watch other teams play postseason basketball.
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Sums up my thoughts as well.
 

jamiche said:
Reusse was offering the comparison as opinion, not fact, and it wasn't intended to be taken literally as there was no way to make a valid statistical comparison. The point that he was making was that Pitino took a team with above average talent and experience (three seniors and two juniors in the starting five) and achieved a below average outcome.

I think that he is particularly unforgiving of guys who he perceives as being bullsh$tters and it appears that he has decided that Pitino is in that club. He hated Holtz, Brew, "Remarkable Mike" Lynn and I think he'd like to hate "Country Jer's" aw shucks persona but the football team is producing. He's gone relatively easy on the Twins and the Wolves because he perceives Ryan, Gardenhire (when he was managing), Taylor and Flip as non bullsh$tters.
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To be fair, he greatly respected Holtz's coaching abilities and remarked about them on more than one occasion. And I'm not sure if he's ever put down Jerry's coaching or program building. Brew and Lynn were different than these in that they were not very good at what they did. Lynn compared poorly to his direct predecessor (Finks) and was even shown up by his middling successor (Headrick).
 

What is interesting is that Reusse missed commenting on what should be most worrying, the departures of players who were expected to be key cogs in the program. Within 6 weeks or so, Pitino lost McNeil, Martin and Lofton, all for very different reasons. We expected McNeill and Martin to play relatively key roles this year and all three to be big parts of next year's team.

None of the departures were directly Pitino's fault but he brought all three of them in so is ultimately responsible for the holes in the roster.
 

scher215 said:
True, not many people in Florida are checking daily for the latest Reusse article lol I could have clarified it has the potential to be a national audience, but you're right, not many people outside of the state follow the writings of Pat.
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Of course they are not checking Pat's column on a regular basis, but an article that claims the U has the worst coach in several decades will linger. Every recruit will see it, every booster will see it, etc.... It does not reflect positively on the program!! A hatchet job like this is like throwing a Molotov cocktail at the barn. All just so Pat can feel smug and get his jollies.!!


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When Pitino was hired, I thought it was a little like Maturi hiring Brewster but was quickly shot down. Shaka or Harbaugh were never coming here despite the dreamers. I know the obvious differences, but Norwood gambled on a young, unproven coach hoping he would hit the jackpot. I still think he might have, but, like with Brewster, there have been growing pains. They seemed to multiply with Brewster; it'll be interesting to see if Pitino has learned some things. It'll also be interesting to see how much patience people will have with him. This hasn't been an easy place to win because of the culture, facilities, demographics, history, etc. I've seen it over and over for about 50 years now. Public gets disgruntled and the media starts in. His name linked to other jobs and this whole drama with EE are really minor things, but, on top of a lousy season, he absolutely does't need those things.
 

alchemy2u said:
Of course they are not checking Pat's column on a regular basis, but an article that claims the U has the worst coach in several decades will linger. Every recruit will see it, every booster will see it, etc.... It does not reflect positively on the program!! A hatchet job like this is like throwing a Molotov cocktail at the barn. All just so Pat can feel smug and get his jollies.!!


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He doesn't work in the Sports Information Department.
 

Mulligan said:
When Pitino was hired, I thought it was a little like Maturi hiring Brewster but was quickly shot down. Shaka or Harbaugh were never coming here despite the dreamers. I know the obvious differences, but Norwood gambled on a young, unproven coach hoping he would hit the jackpot. I still think he might have, but, like with Brewster, there have been growing pains. They seemed to multiply with Brewster; it'll be interesting to see if Pitino has learned some things. It'll also be interesting to see how much patience people will have with him. This hasn't been an easy place to win because of the culture, facilities, demographics, history, etc. I've seen it over and over for about 50 years now. Public gets disgruntled and the media starts in. His name linked to other jobs and this whole drama with EE are really minor things, but, on top of a lousy season, he absolutely does't need those things.
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Great post. The reason that media is being hard on him is because of public impatience just like you said. These days journalist are entertainers. They say what people like as we saw with Brian Williams.
 

Mulligan said:
When Pitino was hired, I thought it was a little like Maturi hiring Brewster but was quickly shot down. Shaka or Harbaugh were never coming here despite the dreamers. I know the obvious differences, but Norwood gambled on a young, unproven coach hoping he would hit the jackpot. I still think he might have, but, like with Brewster, there have been growing pains. They seemed to multiply with Brewster; it'll be interesting to see if Pitino has learned some things. It'll also be interesting to see how much patience people will have with him. This hasn't been an easy place to win because of the culture, facilities, demographics, history, etc. I've seen it over and over for about 50 years now. Public gets disgruntled and the media starts in. His name linked to other jobs and this whole drama with EE are really minor things, but, on top of a lousy season, he absolutely does't need those things.
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Perfectly stated. However, I'd argue this season has little to do with Pat's column. He's pouncing on an opportunity to criticize a guy he hated from day one and then propping up the guy he loved from day one (Flip). While he makes a few valid points, this is nothing more than Pat standing up for his ole pal Flip Saunders and he decided the best way to go was to say, sure Flip wasn't great ... BUT HOLY COW LOOK AT PITINO!!!!!!
 

alchemy2u said:
Of course they are not checking Pat's column on a regular basis, but an article that claims the U has the worst coach in several decades will linger. Every recruit will see it, every booster will see it, etc.... It does not reflect positively on the program!! A hatchet job like this is like throwing a Molotov cocktail at the barn. All just so Pat can feel smug and get his jollies.!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I agree with you 100%, my comment was simply a clarification in regards to Pat having a "national platform"
 

scher215 said:
IMO, Pat is jealous of all of the respect Sid gets for how old he is and he just wants to prove he knows about things from 40 years ago too!

At this point Pat is a joke, he makes the Strib look more like the Onion. Just awful at his job and it's unfortunate he will do whatever it takes to get clicks even if it means hurting the ability for Pitino and his assistants and the U to be successful in recruiting and fund raising. I'd be just fine with it too if it had merit, but this is just pathetic click baiting for him and he really doesn't care. Just a sad, strange little man.

are you being funny?
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Bad Gopher said:
I think Reusse's guilty of trolling with this and certainly of hyperbole.

It may be beyond his understanding, especially not having had a long career for perspective and experience. I believe he's capable and eager to learn from this, if only he can figure out what went wrong.
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If that is true, then that's as much as we can ask for as fans.
 

Winnipegopher said:
What is interesting is that Reusse missed commenting on what should be most worrying, the departures of players who were expected to be key cogs in the program. Within 6 weeks or so, Pitino lost McNeil, Martin and Lofton, all for very different reasons. We expected McNeill and Martin to play relatively key roles this year and all three to be big parts of next year's team.

None of the departures were directly Pitino's fault but he brought all three of them in so is ultimately responsible for the holes in the roster.
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McNeil was not Pitino's fault. He must share a bit of blame for the other two in that those situations were partially the result of either inadequate recruiting or inadequate handling or both.

The point you made about holes in the roster is a very important one. Pitino started last season with 13 scholarship players and 12 active ones. From the time that Martin left until Gaston joined the team, he was down to 9 and Gaston remained well behind the others for the rest of the season. Right now he has only 10 scholarship players but he should not go into the season with fewer than 12 regardless of whether that "balances" the classes. Anybody can quit, transfer, become academically ineligible, or be injured. Beilein finished the regular season with no available scholarships (he may end up having one) so he is more concerned about having bodies now than worrying about possible future openings.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Did you really think this year's expectations were unrealistic? I didn't think there was anything overperforming about last year's team. Big Mo's body transformation helped, and Lil Dre was a pleasant surprise. The feeling seems to be a lot of players took a step backwards this year, and you can debate whether that is true, but I don't think it is very controversial to claim that nobody really took a big step forward (maybe Buggs, but he was still too far away from being a key cog in the 2014-15 team). Freshman Mason was the only pleasant surprise in my book. Perhaps the best evidence that we underperformed was how many close games we lost. We did very poorly in games that were tight down the stretch, and blew some late big leads. Our talent level was enough to get us up by 9 or 10 points against Purdue and Michigan through 30ish minutes of basketball.

As for declaring history, I am not going to use this season in isolation to make any long term predictions about Pitino, but I really don't think I am being unfair by saying that the results this year were garbage when you consider the players we had on the roster, and Pitino deserves a fair amount of blame for that.
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Not necessarily, but I did think there was a lack of appreciation of the value of Austin Hollins on last year's team. This year's team missed his leadership and defensive stopper role more than many thought we would and that increased expectations in the base. I don't think the talent was as good as you seem to. Garbage year, yes, but not willing to throw anyone under the bus for it, including the coach.

Someone said above the greatest coaching concern is the loss of three players who should have contributed this year and been part of the base for transitioning the program. I would agree on that one. This recruiting class will tell us a lot about his ability to not just read talent but also the intangibles that make up a player and build a program.
 

alchemy2u said:
Bull, I think Pitino actually coached very well this season. With the lack of depth, several players out of position and the inability of the seniors to finish out games. The coach did learn a lot and I am sure there are many things he would have done differently, but to call it the worst coaching job is a joke.


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I think Reusse overstated his case for dramatic effect, but it was a poor coaching performance. When players and an entire team under perform compared to their talent level that is coaching. No one is saying that they should have dominated Wisconsin with this squad, but a better record against Purdue, Nebraska, Penn State should have been possible.
 

LakerFan said:
. ... No one is saying that they should have dominated Wisconsin with this squad, but a better record against Purdue, Nebraska, Penn State should have been possible.
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Exactly. I'd add Northwestern to your list. 4-5 at home in Big Ten games, and we didn't even host 2 of the best teams in the conference, Maryland & Michigan State. Barf.

But it was all the seniors' fault, though, so we're all hunky dory. Now that, especially, those leftover & worthless seniors from the previous regime (Andre, Mo, EE) are out of the program, it's all top-4 B1G finishes & Sweet 16 appearances from here on out.

(tongue in cheek about the seniors, in case you missed the sarcasm)
 

SelectionSunday said:
Exactly. I'd add Northwestern to your list. 4-5 at home in Big Ten games, and we didn't even host 2 of the best teams in the conference, Maryland & Michigan State. Barf. It was all the seniors' fault, though, so we're all good.
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If we had just beat Penn State twice and Northwestern at home (not to much to ask IMO) we very well could have been dancing, and at the very least, would have been smack dab in bubble talk.

Go Gophers!!
 

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