Traveling Calls

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BarnBurner

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And the lack thereof.

Do the refs simply ignore them, or do they miss them?

There has been a lot of traveling non-calls for the past couple of seasons, imo.
 

Personally I think players have just really perfected their foot work. So what may look like a travel to the naked eye really isn't.

People love to complain Kaminsky travels all the time, but the man just has phenomenal footwork.
 


BarnBurner said:
And the lack thereof.

Do the refs simply ignore them, or do they miss them?

There has been a lot of traveling non-calls for the past couple of seasons, imo.
Click to expand...

I like Kaminsky at lot, and he has gotten quicker and more explosive this year. However I did stop the the DVR and back up a couple of his spin moves on the block during the last couple of games, and he did shift his pivot foot on more than one occasion without a call. IN both cases he established a pivot foot, then picked it up well before shooting. NO call

The officials are definitely giving Kaminsky the NBA star treatment now when it comes to ignoring certain things. A also noticed Kaminsky push opposing players who had inside position in the back just before they jumped, this allowing him to the rebound. If officials were standing right the twice and ignored this almost automatic foul twice.

If Elliot Elliason did any these things he probably would get kicked out the game!

PS. It also amazes me that way officials let players setting up outside to catch the kick out pass, then often jump to the side with both feet and no dribble before shooting. I slowed down, on the DVR an Kansas player setting up for a three in desperation time when they lost last week, and he traveled three times in one sequence with no call.
 

The charging calls are a much bigger problem in my opinion.
 


BarnBurner said:
And the lack thereof.

Do the refs simply ignore them, or do they miss them?

There has been a lot of traveling non-calls for the past couple of seasons, imo.
Click to expand...

I like Kaminsky at lot, and he has gotten quicker and more explosive this year. However I did back up a couple of his spin moves on the block during the last couple of games, and he did shift his pivot foot on more than one occasion without a call.

am
 

MSU V Louisville: what's with all these traveling calls?!
 

Old school here - I played college in the 60s, coached and refereed in the 70s, it used to be if you lifted your pivot foot and it came down on the floor before releasing the ball that was a travel. There was no such thing a "you are allowed 2 steps"! I've often wondered if they've just changed the rule or as I suspect, don't call it because that's how you get so many "amazing" plays. It's all for show now.

Palming the ball is in the same category, as is camping in the lane for about as long as you need, remember and 3-second calls lately?

It's a different game today, fun to watch, maybe all for the good, not up to me to judge. Players today are are getting better all the time but are allowed more leeway on "minor calls" I've described.
 




Jump stop has decreased travel violations. Shot clock takes away extended half court time that used to contribute to 3 second violations. Interpretation on charging has placed the onus squarely on the defensive player.
 

How about when players drive to the basket and clutch the ball against their stomach? Every one of those should be called a travel.

And when someone gets a pass on the perimeter half the time they jump stop without ever dribbling and then go up for the shot.
 

maxwellsmart said:
Jump stop has decreased travel violations. Shot clock takes away extended half court time that used to contribute to 3 second violations. Interpretation on charging has placed the onus squarely on the defensive player.
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The problem is that a number of jump stops aren't being done properly and are therefore traveling calls. It ultimately becomes a 2 1/2 step layup. There have been about three times in the Duke/Zags game where it's not a jump that is taking place, but rather a double step and a half. However, the refs aren't calling it on either side so...carry on.
 

tinyarch said:
The problem is that a number of jump stops aren't being done properly and are therefore traveling calls. It ultimately becomes a 2 1/2 step layup. There have been about three times in the Duke/Zags game where it's not a jump that is taking place, but rather a double step and a half. However, the refs aren't calling it on either side so...carry on.
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You can do a carry into a jump stop. It doesn't have to be a standing still and then jump.

Like this play from Kaminsky-

https://vine.co/v/OYe07Pqar0Q

Not a travel.
 



Me and my google mates disagree

scher215 said:
You can do a carry into a jump stop. It doesn't have to be a standing still and then jump.

Like this play from Kaminsky-

https://vine.co/v/OYe07Pqar0Q

Not a travel.
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Okay, I watched this 10 times...lol...changed my mind...it is not traveling but...it also has nothing to do with a jump stop
http://phillyref.com/articles/basketball/travel.htmlhttp://www.coachesclipboard.net/JumpStop.html

jump stop: The jump stop is executed by the player, who is on the run, taking one small step and then landing on both feet simultaneously in proper balance

A jump stop is landing on both feet SIMULTANEOUSLY....that doesn't happen in the video ...the reason you do it is for balance, especially after a hard dribble...when done properly without a step for balance, then either foot can be your pivot foot
Frank only uses one pivot foot in his move and foot fakes hard...but it has nothing to do with a "jump stop" ...it's cool...it's legal
 

Actually should have called a travel in the Kaminsky video. He doesn't do a jump stop (purpose of which is to leave a choice of pivot foot if you land on both feet at once). Kaminsky's left foot comes down first, making that his pivot foot. He correctly pivots around on that foot. Where he travels is in stepping on his right foot as he moves right and lifts his pivot foot before releasing the shot. If it's done fast it's rarely called, but should be.
 

You are correct sir

goldenboy said:
Actually should have called a travel in the Kaminsky video. He doesn't do a jump stop (purpose of which is to leave a choice of pivot foot if you land on both feet at once). Kaminsky's left foot comes down first, making that his pivot foot. He correctly pivots around on that foot. Where he travels is in stepping on his right foot as he moves right and lifts his pivot foot before releasing the shot. If it's done fast it's rarely called, but should be.
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I thought it was traveling the first 9 times I watched it because he changed pivot feet. I was confused because as you correctly pointed out there is no jump stop involved. But he does only use one pivot foot. But he does lift that pivot foot before releasing the shot and that is traveling. My first impression was right for the wrong reasons. ha

Here's the real problem with other people doing the move....one they don't have Frank's rep and two they don't have Bo as their coach. You can bet both things are lobbied hard pregame to the refs what they are going to see...and how it is legal. 99% of other post people would be called for traveling before they got to the real reason it is traveling.
 


People don't pay to see traveling called. However, it was a point of emphasis at the HS level to cut down on traveling. Most spin moves are traveling in HS, but College and NBA pretty much allow 2 1/2 steps.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 


It is really tough to tell there, but it looks to me like he keeps the same pivot foot. Let's assume he did. I believe he would be able to jump off both feet and shoot the ball or pass it, before he hits the ground, which he does. I am not expert, but I don't think it was a travel. I think the refs miss far more obvious travels than that play.
 

GVBadger said:
It is really tough to tell there, but it looks to me like he keeps the same pivot foot. Let's assume he did. I believe he would be able to jump off both feet and shoot the ball or pass it, before he hits the ground, which he does. I am not expert, but I don't think it was a travel. I think the refs miss far more obvious travels than that play.
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No doubt it is confusing and what you describe, as I understand what you say would be fine, but it's not what happens...his right foot hits the floor again and then he lifts his pivot foot and then he shoots...that's traveling. I agree he keeps the same pivot foot. Goldenboy has it right. imo
 

Try to make that shot before your pivot foot leaves the floor... Really awkward. There is no way to jump off both feet when your weight is so far out over your non-pivot foot.
 

After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is
released on a pass or try for goal.

This one wasn't a travel.
 

AO54 said:
After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is
released on a pass or try for goal.

This one wasn't a travel.
Click to expand...

Just took a look at the NCAA rule (per Wiki) and the Kaminsky clip is definitely not a travel.

Step 1, the non simultaneous jump stop-

Art. 2. A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:
a. When both feet are off the playing court and the player lands:
1. Simultaneously on both feet, either may be the pivot foot;
2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch shall be the pivot foot; The first foot to land is Kaminsky's pivot foot in the move

Step 2, jumping to shoot (You referenced this rule as well)

Art. 3. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;64 Rule 4 / definitions So Kaminsky can jump off of his pivot foot so long as that the ball is released before it lands again. The pivot foot doesn't land until the shot has been released.
 

You are correct sir

scher215 said:
Just took a look at the NCAA rule (per Wiki) and the Kaminsky clip is definitely not a travel.

Step 1, the non simultaneous jump stop-

Art. 2. A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:
a. When both feet are off the playing court and the player lands:
1. Simultaneously on both feet, either may be the pivot foot;
2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch shall be the pivot foot; The first foot to land is Kaminsky's pivot foot in the move

Step 2, jumping to shoot (You referenced this rule as well)

Art. 3. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;64 Rule 4 / definitions So Kaminsky can jump off of his pivot foot so long as that the ball is released before it lands again. The pivot foot doesn't land until the shot has been released.
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Please! Don't anybody else change my mind. ha I see it as a legal move. Without the 360 pivot, it's really just like a layup. It just really "looks" like traveling. Thanks for the video and discussion.
 

The pivot foot may certainly be lifted if a shot or pass occurs before landing. Example: a jump shot, or layup, or hook shot, where the player leaves the ground from his pivot foot (or both feet at once). But slow Kaminsky's shot down enough and note that his pivot (left) foot is picked up just before he jumps from his right foot. Travel. It is rarely called if done quickly, but exaggerate the move in slow motion and it seems crazy that traveling wouldn't be called. With your weight that far out over your right foot, it's impossible for your left foot to leave the ground last when you jump.
 

goldenboy said:
The pivot foot may certainly be lifted if a shot or pass occurs before landing. Example: a jump shot, or layup, or hook shot, where the player leaves the ground from his pivot foot (or both feet at once). But slow Kaminsky's shot down enough and note that his pivot (left) foot is picked up just before he jumps from his right foot. Travel. It is rarely called if done quickly, but exaggerate the move in slow motion and it seems crazy that traveling wouldn't be called. With your weight that far out over your right foot, it's impossible for your left foot to leave the ground last when you jump.
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What? It doesn't matter if the pivot foot left the floor first, last or at the same time as the other foot, as long as it doesn't come back down before the release.
 

AO54 said:
What? It doesn't matter if the pivot foot left the floor first, last or at the same time as the other foot, as long as it doesn't come back down before the release.
Click to expand...

I am still annoyed that many officials standing right next to a perimeter shooter by the three point line will watch a player catch the ball, let both feet become established after catching the ball, then jump to the side or backwards, and in the process moving both feet to the new spot before jumping and shooting. No dribble happens at all during this process, yet no call is made. The movement all happens after the catch and both feet established so in no way are these players jumping and repositioning as they catch the pass.

If a large player did this on the inside, the officials would call traveling every time.
 

AO54 said:
What? It doesn't matter if the pivot foot left the floor first, last or at the same time as the other foot, as long as it doesn't come back down before the release.
Click to expand...

You're kidding, right?
Moving (lifting) your pivot foot with the other on the ground is the DEFINITION of traveling.
 

goldenboy said:
You're kidding, right? Moving (lifting) your pivot foot with the other on the ground is the DEFINITION of traveling.
Click to expand...

Granted it's from the Wikipedia entry on the NCAA rule book, but I think that sort of qualifies as being the definition.

Art. 3. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:

a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;64 Rule 4 / definitions

From what I understand, you can lift the foot but it isn't a travel until it touches the ground again and you still have the ball. Regardless of what the other foot is lifted.
 

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