Mel Kiper weighs in on Thompson and Cobb's draft prospects

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ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper currently ranks Thompson as the No. 10 safety on this year's board.

“You love the way he plays,” Kiper said in a teleconference Thursday. “His game day tapes are very solid. He’s adequate in coverage. He’s a good tackler, he makes plays, and he’s another guy, very instinctive.

“So when you look at a poor safety group, that’s why I moved him in there [to the Top 10]. If this was a strong safety group, he wouldn’t be a 10. He’d be 17-18. It’s just not that type of year. Those kind of guys make it in this league, guys who can set up a defense that are consistent week to week, that understand how to play the game.

“That’s more important than physical qualifications at safety. So I would say he’s maybe an undrafted free agent or a late-Day 3 pick.”

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/297678941.html

Go Gophers!!
 

Probably pretty accurate for Thompson. Be interesting to see where Calhoun and Murray end up going. If Murray can figure out turning his head to the ball and picking a few, no reason why he couldn't be one of the top three CBs picked next draft.
 

If Murray can figure out turning his head to the ball and picking a few, no reason why he couldn't be one of the top three CBs picked next draft.

He's coached to do that, as are all of the players in our secondary. There's no "figure out" about it.
 

Probably pretty accurate for Thompson. Be interesting to see where Calhoun and Murray end up going. If Murray can figure out turning his head to the ball and picking a few, no reason why he couldn't be one of the top three CBs picked next draft.

Murray had a 2-4th round grade after last season according to the NFL advisory committe. Coach Sawvel's opinion through his contacts was late 2nd,early 3rd. Murray didnt want too come out. He enjoys college and the University of Minnesota. He has somethings to work and improve on but what you bring up is NOT 1 thing the 20+ scouts who attended Pro Day discussed with him.
 

He's coached to do that, as are all of the players in our secondary. There's no "figure out" about it.

Being coached to do something and figuring out how to properly do it or implement it as a player are not the same thing. You failed logically. The person you responded to did fine.
 



Being coached to do something and figuring out how to properly do it or implement it as a player are not the same thing. You failed logically. The person you responded to did fine.

You can't be serious!
 

Being coached to do something and figuring out how to properly do it or implement it as a player are not the same thing. You failed logically. The person you responded to did fine.

Incorrect on all counts.
 

Being coached to do something and figuring out how to properly do it or implement it as a player are not the same thing. You failed logically. The person you responded to did fine.

I'm with the others who responded to this. Huh?
 



I can teach you how to do something. I cannot necessity get it through your head or give you the ability to do what I teach.
 

I can teach you how to do something. I cannot necessity get it through your head or give you the ability to do what I teach.

Now it makes sense. Don Dpod was in fact wrong. Murray may have to figure it out.
 

The art of defending the deep ball: One of the NFL's most stressful situations is tougher than ever

FLORHAM PARK – In his previous football life, Dawan Landry often shook his head when he saw a defensive back get beat by a deep pass.

“The guy is in position,” Landry would think. “He should make a play on the ball.”

Then Landry experienced the reality of the deep ball, and learned why defending it is among football’s most stressful experiences. Landry played quarterback in his first season at Georgia Tech, 2001, and then switched to safety. He has played there ever since, and will begin his ninth NFL season Sunday, when his Jets host the Raiders.

From the moment he moved to the other side of the deep ball, defending it instead of throwing it, he realized why making a play on this ball is not as simple as it seems.

“From the outside looking in, it always looks easy,” Landry said. “It’s a lot more technical than it looks.”

Often last season, it appeared far too challenging for the Jets. They finished 22nd in the NFL in passing yards allowed, largely because of deep completions.

In the first 11 games alone, they surrendered gains of 30, 31, 38, 40, 46, 53, 53, 60 and 60 yards on deep passes. And those were just the long balls that didn’t result in touchdowns. Opponents scored on deep completions of 43, 51, 55, 66 and 77 yards. Those 14 completions accounted for 25 percent of the passing yards the Jets allowed in their first 11 games, during which they went 5-6.

The Jets spent countless hours of practice and film study working on improving their deep ball defense this offseason.

“We have to be better,” said Dennis Thurman, their defensive coordinator. “It is not something that we are going to just keep talking about. It is something that we have to get.”

But the deep ball has a chance to test the Jets even more this season. In Sunday’s opener against an Oakland team that loves throwing long passes, the Jets will start a converted safety, Antonio Allen, and a career backup, Darrin Walls, at cornerback. Even when Dee Milliner returns from a high ankle sprain, one of those two players is likely to continue starting.

The Jets’ cornerback issues come in a season when the NFL is aggressively trying to limit contact by defensive backs more than five yards down the field. This could hamper one of the longtime tactics for defending the deep ball -- the "look and lean" technique.

“A lot of these offenses, they’re going to throw the deep ball just to get a pass interference,” said former Cowboys safety Darren Woodson, now an ESPN analyst. “They’re not just looking for the big play. They’re looking for the penalty also.”

For the Jets especially, one of football’s most stressful defensive plays just got even more nerve-wracking.

THE MOST ANXIOUS OF MOMENTS

The deep ball can put an anxious pit in a defensive back’s stomach. All it takes is that sound – the simultaneous gasp of thousands of fans when they see a quarterback flick a long pass to a receiver who is a step ahead of a defensive back.

“The times I’ve gotten beat in games on a deep ball, the first thing you hear is the crowd,” Woodson said. “You can hear that, definitely. You know the ball is in the air. Now you have to absolutely track the ball, and that can be a kick in the ass.”

Defending the deep ball is about more than just running as fast as the receiver, or being able to catch up to him. But that is a legitimate part of it.

“If you don’t have that type of recovery speed, I don’t care what type of skills you’ve got, you’re going to get beat with the deep ball,” said former NFL receiver Desmond Howard, who now analyzes college football for ESPN.

When physical skills are equal, as they often are in the NFL, precision and patience take over. This is where Landry failed at first, as a young safety at Georgia Tech. When a receiver beat him deep in a one-on-one practice drill, Landry decided to turn around and play the ball. That might feel like a natural reaction, but it is all wrong, because you lose track of the receiver, drift away from him and slow your pursuit, all at once.

Landry said defensive backs are always taught to never look back for the ball until they are “in phase” with a receiver – basically running next to him, hip-to-hip. Once in phase with the receiver, the defensive back should “look and lean,” Landry said. That means simultaneously turning back for the ball while slightly leaning into the receiver’s area.

The purpose of the lean is twofold: It lets the defensive back physically track the receiver while not looking at him, and also closes the spacing between the two players.

By his own admission, looking and leaning is the toughest part of playing the deep ball for Walls – locating the ball in the air while maintaining “control” of the receiver. He called it “the hardest thing for DBs to do."

For as challenge as the "look and lean" is to perfect, Tim McDonald, the Jets' secondary coach, hopes the NFL's downfield contact emphasis doesn't completely eliminate the tactic.

"We’ve got just as much right to that space as they have, as long as we lean, not into them, but we lean to that space," McDonald said. "We don’t give him space to come in and get the ball."

What if a defensive back gets beat, and trails his receiver? In this situation – “out of phase” – the defensive back must look at the receiver’s hands. When he sticks them out to catch the ball, the defensive back has to jab his own hand ahead to disrupt the play. The best receivers, like Randy Moss and Reggie Wayne, wait until the last minute to extend their hands on deep balls, and rarely tip off defensive backs by turning their heads early, to look for the ball.

There is a delicate balance for a defensive back trying to determine when exactly to turn, locate the deep ball and momentarily lose sight of the receiver. When in phase, he can glance at a receiver’s eyes, to see when he looks up for the ball. But this can present problems for a corner trying to time his initial contact, because a receiver usually looks up first, and then stretches his hands out. So, watching his hands can be safer.

“It’s better to just play through (looking at) their hands than their eyes, because you might make early contact,” said Milliner.

Despite standard teaching points, every secondary coach and defensive back has a preference. McDonald wants his players to watch for outstretched hands, wait for the "blur of the ball" to appear in their field of vision, and then reach out to break up the pass. Former NFL cornerback Eric Davis liked playing outside-in technique on deep balls. This means being closer to the sideline than the receiver, so you keep both him and the ball in your field of vision when looking up to track the pass.

Even if, after all this, the defensive back finds himself in the ideal situation to go after the ball, he can still screw it up. Say a cornerback is running stride for stride with a receiver down the right sideline, and he is to the inside of the receiver. A common mistake is for the corner to turn his head left, to locate the ball. When the corner does this while running, he fades toward the inside of the field, away from the receiver. He also loses sight of the receiver. The corner should look over his right shoulder instead, said Davis.

“You have to turn your head up, toward the sideline, and look up,” said Davis, an NFL Network analyst who played 13 seasons in the league.

PREPARATION IS KEY

As a kid, Ed Reed loved playing a game with his friends, though it only required one friend. Reed would stand on the field, and his buddy would stand 50 yards away, and they would simply throw the ball back and forth. Reed watched it spiral through the humid Louisiana air, tracking the arc of the pass into his hands.

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/20..._stressful_situations_is_getting_even_to.html
 

He's coached to do that, as are all of the players in our secondary. There's no "figure out" about it.

You're honestly attempting to tell me that he's 'coached not to look for the ball in the air'?
These are the kinds of comments that come from people who never played football
with a coach. Ever.

To NOT look for the ball, means Sawvel is coaching with him getting a lot of PI calls....
I doubt that.
 



Darelle Revis had 2 interceptions in 19 games this past season. He just signed for $30 million guaranteed, should he learn to look back for the ball?
 

You're honestly attempting to tell me that he's 'coached not to look for the ball in the air'?
These are the kinds of comments that come from people who never played football
with a coach. Ever.

To NOT look for the ball, means Sawvel is coaching with him getting a lot of PI calls....
I doubt that.

This has been discussed on here so many times. Sorry but yes he is coached to not look back for the ball. The style he plays is to knock the ball out when it gets there. I don't know why this is so hard for some to understand. With that said, would I prefer him to look back once in a while so he saves a PI call or maybe gets an extra interception? Yeah maybe, but if he starts doing that whats the trade off? How much more open will the receivers be? Will he still be a "shut down corner"? Probably not. The guy is going to be one of the top corners in the draft when he goes, if the pro scouts don't see a problem with how he plays why should you?
 

You're honestly attempting to tell me that he's 'coached not to look for the ball in the air'?
These are the kinds of comments that come from people who never played football
with a coach. Ever.

To NOT look for the ball, means Sawvel is coaching with him getting a lot of PI calls....
I doubt that.

I played football. Nonetheless, that has nothing to do with anything. Our coaches teach the secondary to not look back for the ball. Period. You are wrong.
 

The art of defending the deep ball: One of the NFL's most stressful situations is tougher than ever

FLORHAM PARK – In his previous football life, Dawan Landry often shook his head when he saw a defensive back get beat by a deep pass.

“The guy is in position,” Landry would think. “He should make a play on the ball.”

Then Landry experienced the reality of the deep ball, and learned why defending it is among football’s most stressful experiences. Landry played quarterback in his first season at Georgia Tech, 2001, and then switched to safety. He has played there ever since, and will begin his ninth NFL season Sunday, when his Jets host the Raiders.

From the moment he moved to the other side of the deep ball, defending it instead of throwing it, he realized why making a play on this ball is not as simple as it seems.

“From the outside looking in, it always looks easy,” Landry said. “It’s a lot more technical than it looks.”

Often last season, it appeared far too challenging for the Jets. They finished 22nd in the NFL in passing yards allowed, largely because of deep completions.

In the first 11 games alone, they surrendered gains of 30, 31, 38, 40, 46, 53, 53, 60 and 60 yards on deep passes. And those were just the long balls that didn’t result in touchdowns. Opponents scored on deep completions of 43, 51, 55, 66 and 77 yards. Those 14 completions accounted for 25 percent of the passing yards the Jets allowed in their first 11 games, during which they went 5-6.

The Jets spent countless hours of practice and film study working on improving their deep ball defense this offseason.

“We have to be better,” said Dennis Thurman, their defensive coordinator. “It is not something that we are going to just keep talking about. It is something that we have to get.”

But the deep ball has a chance to test the Jets even more this season. In Sunday’s opener against an Oakland team that loves throwing long passes, the Jets will start a converted safety, Antonio Allen, and a career backup, Darrin Walls, at cornerback. Even when Dee Milliner returns from a high ankle sprain, one of those two players is likely to continue starting.

The Jets’ cornerback issues come in a season when the NFL is aggressively trying to limit contact by defensive backs more than five yards down the field. This could hamper one of the longtime tactics for defending the deep ball -- the "look and lean" technique.

“A lot of these offenses, they’re going to throw the deep ball just to get a pass interference,” said former Cowboys safety Darren Woodson, now an ESPN analyst. “They’re not just looking for the big play. They’re looking for the penalty also.”

For the Jets especially, one of football’s most stressful defensive plays just got even more nerve-wracking.

THE MOST ANXIOUS OF MOMENTS

The deep ball can put an anxious pit in a defensive back’s stomach. All it takes is that sound – the simultaneous gasp of thousands of fans when they see a quarterback flick a long pass to a receiver who is a step ahead of a defensive back.

“The times I’ve gotten beat in games on a deep ball, the first thing you hear is the crowd,” Woodson said. “You can hear that, definitely. You know the ball is in the air. Now you have to absolutely track the ball, and that can be a kick in the ass.”

Defending the deep ball is about more than just running as fast as the receiver, or being able to catch up to him. But that is a legitimate part of it.

“If you don’t have that type of recovery speed, I don’t care what type of skills you’ve got, you’re going to get beat with the deep ball,” said former NFL receiver Desmond Howard, who now analyzes college football for ESPN.

When physical skills are equal, as they often are in the NFL, precision and patience take over. This is where Landry failed at first, as a young safety at Georgia Tech. When a receiver beat him deep in a one-on-one practice drill, Landry decided to turn around and play the ball. That might feel like a natural reaction, but it is all wrong, because you lose track of the receiver, drift away from him and slow your pursuit, all at once.

Landry said defensive backs are always taught to never look back for the ball until they are “in phase” with a receiver – basically running next to him, hip-to-hip. Once in phase with the receiver, the defensive back should “look and lean,” Landry said. That means simultaneously turning back for the ball while slightly leaning into the receiver’s area.

The purpose of the lean is twofold: It lets the defensive back physically track the receiver while not looking at him, and also closes the spacing between the two players.

By his own admission, looking and leaning is the toughest part of playing the deep ball for Walls – locating the ball in the air while maintaining “control” of the receiver. He called it “the hardest thing for DBs to do."

For as challenge as the "look and lean" is to perfect, Tim McDonald, the Jets' secondary coach, hopes the NFL's downfield contact emphasis doesn't completely eliminate the tactic.

"We’ve got just as much right to that space as they have, as long as we lean, not into them, but we lean to that space," McDonald said. "We don’t give him space to come in and get the ball."

What if a defensive back gets beat, and trails his receiver? In this situation – “out of phase” – the defensive back must look at the receiver’s hands. When he sticks them out to catch the ball, the defensive back has to jab his own hand ahead to disrupt the play. The best receivers, like Randy Moss and Reggie Wayne, wait until the last minute to extend their hands on deep balls, and rarely tip off defensive backs by turning their heads early, to look for the ball.

There is a delicate balance for a defensive back trying to determine when exactly to turn, locate the deep ball and momentarily lose sight of the receiver. When in phase, he can glance at a receiver’s eyes, to see when he looks up for the ball. But this can present problems for a corner trying to time his initial contact, because a receiver usually looks up first, and then stretches his hands out. So, watching his hands can be safer.

“It’s better to just play through (looking at) their hands than their eyes, because you might make early contact,” said Milliner.

Despite standard teaching points, every secondary coach and defensive back has a preference. McDonald wants his players to watch for outstretched hands, wait for the "blur of the ball" to appear in their field of vision, and then reach out to break up the pass. Former NFL cornerback Eric Davis liked playing outside-in technique on deep balls. This means being closer to the sideline than the receiver, so you keep both him and the ball in your field of vision when looking up to track the pass.

Even if, after all this, the defensive back finds himself in the ideal situation to go after the ball, he can still screw it up. Say a cornerback is running stride for stride with a receiver down the right sideline, and he is to the inside of the receiver. A common mistake is for the corner to turn his head left, to locate the ball. When the corner does this while running, he fades toward the inside of the field, away from the receiver. He also loses sight of the receiver. The corner should look over his right shoulder instead, said Davis.

“You have to turn your head up, toward the sideline, and look up,” said Davis, an NFL Network analyst who played 13 seasons in the league.

PREPARATION IS KEY

As a kid, Ed Reed loved playing a game with his friends, though it only required one friend. Reed would stand on the field, and his buddy would stand 50 yards away, and they would simply throw the ball back and forth. Reed watched it spiral through the humid Louisiana air, tracking the arc of the pass into his hands.

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/20..._stressful_situations_is_getting_even_to.html

Thank you Pompous Elitist! I think I should print out a few copies and hand them out during games.
 

I can teach you how to do something. I cannot necessity get it through your head or give you the ability to do what I teach.

So...if I got this right, you aren't suggesting he ignore the coaching and do what he deems best? It wasn't clear at first.

Now on to Gopher028...just stop. This has been discussed to death. You are wrong.
 


In 4 words you capture the essence of virtually every post you write on these boards. I'm right, you're wrong. It's absolute, always, and it's gotten old.

Don't mind the fact that he is correct.

Read what the coaches have said about how the teach, and expect the DB's to play the man, and not the ball.
 

From the article I linked

"Landry said defensive backs are always taught to never look back for the ball until they are “in phase” with a receiver – basically running next to him, hip-to-hip. Once in phase with the receiver, the defensive back should “look and lean,” Landry said. That means simultaneously turning back for the ball while slightly leaning into the receiver’s area."

It seems clear there are times when it is appropriate to look for the ball. And many times when it isn't. Some coaches, like ours, teach absolutes to make it simple and it works for the most part. With the way PI is called in the NFL our DBS would be covered in laundry. In college they let contact go quite a bit more but seems to be changing, sadly. They will need to get better at not contacting or running through the back of their man. Those 50 yd penalties sting. Sorry if a nuanced response offends.
 


I would guess he isn't a higher draft pick because of lack of elite speed. This play still sticks in my craw. The play wasn't his fault, but the lack of makeup speed vs JT who isn't known as an elite burner was surprising.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=400547965

Barrett hit full speed about 15-20 yards before Murray on that play after Murray shed a blocker, plus Barrett was running toward the far sideline away from Murray. The only conclusion I draw from that play is that they are both fast and Murray is faster as he did accelerate to Barrett while trying to figure when to make his move on a tackle. A 40 yard dash and attempting to catch someone with the intent to tackle him are quite different tasks.
 

In 4 words you capture the essence of virtually every post you write on these boards. I'm right, you're wrong. It's absolute, always, and it's gotten old.

I would take the time to pick apart the quality of your contributions - had you ever made any.
 

I would guess he isn't a higher draft pick because of lack of elite speed. This play still sticks in my craw. The play wasn't his fault, but the lack of makeup speed vs JT who isn't known as an elite burner was surprising.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=400547965

JT Barret is not slow. If u ever played football what u know is that JT Barret was doing was changing the ANGLE Murray had on him. Thats why he kept getting wider on the field. Murray has plenty of speed. Hes not a 100 meter guy but hes quick in short areas. Kolby Listenbee the WR from TCU runs 10.17 100 meters and he couldnt run by Murray (although they tried to get him deep several times on streaks) 3-25 yards. I lokk foward to there match up this fall. You could also go to the Nebraska film and see where he catches Kenny Bell from behind and knocks him out the game. Kenny Bell ran 4.42 at the NFL combine.
 

According to the GPS speeds recorded last season Murray was about 1 mph slower than the top guys on the team. That breaks down to roughly 6-7 feet over 40 yards. The difference between a 4.6 guy and a 4.4 guy is about 3-4 yards in a foot race.

We can see what we want to see on that video. JT had a high school 40 arounf 4.7. Unless he's spoofin then murray should have been able to run him down despite the angle. The proof will be in the pudding next spring.

Don't take it the wrong way. Murray is an EXCELLENT, tough hombre and there have to be reasons he isn't projected to go higher in a CB needy NFL. I'd love to hear what the scouts said to him.
 

I would take the time to pick apart the quality of your contributions - had you ever made any.

I didn't know we were being graded on our contributions so I'll try harder to bolster my body of work. But given a choice between contributing nothing and being a self-important jag who fancies himself the sheriff of a message board, I'll take the former, thanks.
 

As for what this thread is actually suppose to be about, Thompson and Cobb's draft prospects, NFL Draft Zone just released a three round mock draft which has Maxx going to the Saints in the first at #31, Cobb as the third pick of the third round, #67 overall and the #6 RB taken and also had Cedric in the third too.

http://www.nfl-draft-zone.com/#!mock-draft-1-round-1/c13ep
 




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