***OFFICIAL GOPHERS VS ILLINOIS IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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MadtownGopher said:
#whydoesjoeykingplay
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Um, because the guy you were wetting yourself over quit and went home. And the other guy, Buggs, you were all hot to run off. There aren't that many options, and Joey does do some things that help. Duh.
 

tinyarch said:
Well...now we know why the Breu never got into broadcasting... :cool02:
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I had very low expectations for any Randy Breuer interview today, but I thought he did a very good job when sitting in with Stephen Bardo and the Twins PBP guy. I recall RB being a fairly quiet, and somewhat surly person when asked to deal with public scrutiny, but he was pretty good today.

I saw him a few years ago outside Williams Arena, when I think the 1982 team may have been honored, and he looked downright POed when fans tried to approach him, which I can understand. I have never understood why people think it is OK to initiate discussions with "celebrities" unless they get some cue that such an intrusion is OK.
 

Bad Gopher said:
They should make a poster of that. Now that you've made it a point of emphasis, I watch for it, and it always makes me smile.

Lots of things HAPPEN when Charles is on the floor - some of them bad but many of them good. I wonder what his plus/minus is.
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HA!! Glad to know someone else is enjoying this. We're on the gopher bench side so we had a good view. For those who have missed this - Mr. Buggs, when particularly pleased with a made basket, leans over and watches/stares at the ball intensely until the opponent picks it up for the inbounds. Its an inexplicable highlight.
Agree on Buggs making things happen. Konate also has a very stat-packed line for his limited minutes. I'm glad he's getting some time out there but I want to close my eyes for parts of it. Put these two in the 'adventure' column.
 


GophersInIowa said:
That's exactly my thought as well. 9 out of 10 times that is waived off. Another thing that is called inconsistently.
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My guess it that the made basket gets waved off 59 out of 60 times, not 9 out of ten.

The charge Block call is the one that is really annoying me again this year. They fixed it last year, then backed off, so we have all these defenders sliding left and right and outside the circle then flopping, and officials are calling it more than ever, except at times when a big player is the one flopping.

When little 'dre dumped it to Buggs for the slam and ran into the defender, they for once did not call a charge, even though in this case it probably was a charge.

Anything that can be put into the rules, like the "charging" half circle or the 2013, and now rescinded charging interpretation that the defender could not slide in after the offensive player started to "gather" himself for the shot, that make certain calls more automatic and cut down on random official biases are good things.
 


That call on Mo was absolutely ridiculous. Ref was just expecting a foul.


Goldy Gopher said:
Final score probably ended up closer than the way the game actually went but a pretty solid win nonetheless. I thought the reffing was pretty inconsistent again today and the call that upset me most was when Illinois went for a layup and Mo had a clean block and got hit with the foul. Also the last couple minutes where Illinois was constantly clutching and grabbing on in-bounds passes and the refs never called anything leading to a couple turnovers like the Hollins travel. A lot of solid efforts today but the one that I hope we see more of the most is Mo with the double-double and playing really active defense. Also really liked the energy that Konate and Buggs brought in the 2nd half and thought they were a key to building a nice lead.
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Great crowd today -almost capacity for a 1 and 6 team!
 

Unregistered User said:
Shot was released before contact was made. Good call.
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I thought the rule was if the charge occured after the act of shooting was completed...not just the ball out of hand but the player back to the floor. This was in the act and a bad call IMO.
 

oak_street1981 said:
I saw him a few years ago outside Williams Arena, when I think the 1982 team may have been honored, and he looked downright POed when fans tried to approach him, which I can understand. I have never understood why people think it is OK to initiate discussions with "celebrities" unless they get some cue that such an intrusion is OK.
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Understand if the guy is at a urinal or in the grocery store...but outside Williams on a night the team was getting honored...hard to not just think the guy is a jerk if he got surely in that situation.
 



GopherinPhilly said:
Understand if the guy is at a urinal or in the grocery store...but outside Williams on a night the team was getting honored...hard to not just think the guy is a jerk if he got surely in that situation.
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Listening to Korzo yesterday morning on 1500. Said he was covering the Gopher BB team for the Daily when he was a student. Said most the players were great to get along with, but not Breuer. Can't remember the exact words, but basically not very friendly.
 

Sorry if I missed it earlier in thread, but anything behind EE only playing 1 minute?

How in the hell is he supposed to keep his fouls-per-game rate up there?
 

brucekaupa said:
Sorry if I missed it earlier in thread, but anything behind EE only playing 1 minute?

How in the hell is he supposed to keep his fouls-per-game rate up there?
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My take on Elliott's falling out of the rotation is that Richard must have looked at the tape. Honest to god, that's all it would take. Pitino goes on and on about all the little things Hollins does on the court. Suffice to say, Eliason doesn't do those things.
 

Moonlight said:
HA!! Glad to know someone else is enjoying this. We're on the gopher bench side so we had a good view. For those who have missed this - Mr. Buggs, when particularly pleased with a made basket, leans over and watches/stares at the ball intensely until the opponent picks it up for the inbounds. Its an inexplicable highlight.
Agree on Buggs making things happen. Konate also has a very stat-packed line for his limited minutes. I'm glad he's getting some time out there but I want to close my eyes for parts of it. Put these two in the 'adventure' column.
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Buggs showed again yesterday that the raw material is there. He is capable of playing above the rim and showed it on the missed put back and the resounding one handed throw down. There is a lot more to be had from Buggs if Pitino can find a way to get it out of him. He still has two years left.
 



bga1 said:
Buggs showed again yesterday that the raw material is there. He is capable of playing above the rim and showed it on the missed put back and the resounding one handed throw down. There is a lot more to be had from Buggs if Pitino can find a way to get it out of him. He still has two years left.
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+1000.

I've thought this since a couple of weeks ago. I think Buggs should be starting at PF, and Pitino needs to let him play through his mistakes. Not sure why, but he's been Richie's whipping boy many times.

Buggs does make mistakes. But it's not like King doesn't make any. King is plenty turnover prone. King may not make the same mistakes on defense that Buggs does, but Buggs also causes more havoc on the press (what Pitino wants to do) and stays in front of his man better.

As far as 3 pointers, I think they are a horse a piece. Buggs has a better looking jumper, but % wise, they are about the same.

King is craftier on offense, but perhaps more TO prone.

Buggs plays above the rim and is athletic. What this team is sorely missing.

Someone else already mentioned this, but it does seem like Gophers go on runs once Buggs comes in. It'd be nice to know what is +/- is.

In summary, this team is 2-6. Buggs has two years left. Pitino talks about young players needing experience. I think Buggs qualifies. I think the more playing time he gets, the better he will get. And perhaps the mental and defensive errors will decrease. I just don't think King is that far ahead of him to warrant playing him more.
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
+1000.

I've thought this since a couple of weeks ago. I think Buggs should be starting at PF, and Pitino needs to let him play through his mistakes. Not sure why, but he's been Richie's whipping boy many times.

Buggs does make mistakes. But it's not like King doesn't make any. King is plenty turnover prone. King may not make the same mistakes on defense that Buggs does, but Buggs also causes more havoc on the press (what Pitino wants to do) and stays in front of his man better.

As far as 3 pointers, I think they are a horse a piece. Buggs has a better looking jumper, but % wise, they are about the same.

King is craftier on offense, but perhaps more TO prone.

Buggs plays above the rim and is athletic. What this team is sorely missing.

Someone else already mentioned this, but it does seem like Gophers go on runs once Buggs comes in. It'd be nice to know what is +/- is.

In summary, this team is 2-6. Buggs has two years left. Pitino talks about young players needing experience. I think Buggs qualifies. I think the more playing time he gets, the better he will get. And perhaps the mental and defensive errors will decrease. I just don't think King is that far ahead of him to warrant playing him more.
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+1

Fantastic post.
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
+1000.

I've thought this since a couple of weeks ago. I think Buggs should be starting at PF, and Pitino needs to let him play through his mistakes. Not sure why, but he's been Richie's whipping boy many times.
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I like the energy and athleticism Buggs brings to the floor and I believe he has a higher ceiling than Joey, but I wouldn't get too carried away with enthusiasm for him. I believe that Buggs should play more and King should play less but King should still get the majority of minutes at the 4 and the team would be worse for the remainder of the season if Buggs got the majority of minutes. The long and short of it is that this position is the weak link of the team and both options are decidedly below average for a Big Ten starter.

This isn't just my opinion, this view is fully supported by advanced stats. For the 8 conference games only, Joey's Player Efficiency Rating is 8.6 and Buggs' is 5.5. Both scores are well below average but King's is definitely better. Buggs has been better at rebounding per floor time than King (TRB% of 9.6 vs. King's 4.5 - in fact, by this number, King is the worst rebounder on the team) but Buggs' score isn't so great for a forward. Buggs turns the ball over less often than Joey (Buggs doesn't have an official turnover in Big Ten play) but Joey's turnover rate isn't that bad. Joey's assist rate is pretty good for a 4 man (it's virtually the same as Hollins' score) while Buggs doesn't have an official assist in Big Ten play. But what really has set King apart from Buggs in conference play is shooting. King's True Shooting Percentage in conference play is 54.7% (3rd on the team) while Buggs TS% in conference is an absolutely abysmal 34.6% (dead last on the team by a country mile).

Unless Andre Hollins can average 20+ points per game for the rest of the season and Morris can increase his scoring a bit, I think the team needs the pretty efficient bit of scoring that Joey gives them. Yesterday Joey scored only 3 points but he didn't need to score when Andre scores 28 and Morris scores 16 on as few shots as possible.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Understand if the guy is at a urinal or in the grocery store...but outside Williams on a night the team was getting honored...hard to not just think the guy is a jerk if he got surely in that situation.
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Maybe Shirley wanted it. :cool02:
 

cjbfbp said:
I like the energy and athleticism Buggs brings to the floor and I believe he has a higher ceiling than Joey, but I wouldn't get too carried away with enthusiasm for him.

Agree. Also 3 fouls in just over a 5 minute stretch. Pitino, to me, seems to be getting as much out of him right now as he can.
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Bad Gopher said:
Lots of things HAPPEN when Charles is on the floor - some of them bad but many of them good. I wonder what his plus/minus is.
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I did this once before on Buggs. I did it just now for the Illinois game which I still had on tape. I was surprised how quick and easy it was to come up with this 'stat'.

Buggs plus/minus - 1st half Plus 1 ---- 2nd half Plus 14

Game Total ---- PLUS 15

1st Half
9:31 1st half Buggs enters the game tied 18-18 - leaves game 3 minutes later MN leads 21-20

2nd Half
12:12 Buggs enters the game tied 44-44 - leaves game at 5:32 MN leads 61-46

Reenters game at 3:03 MN 66-54 - Leaves game at 2:15 MN 66-55
 

One more addition to the King/Buggs deal, then no more from me. Generally if a coach is milking a reserve for about as much as they can get we always feel that "if he would just play him more" they'd get more out of him. More often than not, it just isn't the case.
 

I like what Pitino gets out of King/Buggs. My only tweak would be maybe a little longer leash for Buggs and a few more minutes. I like King too. Especially like the flops.
 

You know how Hollins does all the "little things" and you don't notice? Well Buggs doesn't do those things. Show on a screen, rotate on a pick n roll fron the weak side, box out a guy even if he isn't your guy, set good screens, help others get into defensive position etc. those things get guys on the court, or keep them on the court when they don't provide points or some other stat. Buggs is a spark plug that you test here and there and in very specific situations ie full court press, up and down basketball, teams without a diminutive pf. All other times he's gonna be 5 to 10 until he fixes those "little things".
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
One more addition to the King/Buggs deal, then no more from me. Generally if a coach is milking a reserve for about as much as they can get we always feel that "if he would just play him more" they'd get more out of him. More often than not, it just isn't the case.
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That's a good rule. My opinion isn't what it used to be. With two little ones, I don't exactly get to what as intensively as I used to. But from my blind's eye view, I notice King's mistakes a lot more. But maybe my eyes aren't being objective.

That being said, at 2-6, it's a good idea to develop Buggs with more playing time.
 

rrjackIII said:
I did this once before on Buggs. I did it just now for the Illinois game which I still had on tape. I was surprised how quick and easy it was to come up with this 'stat'.

Buggs plus/minus - 1st half Plus 1 ---- 2nd half Plus 14

Game Total ---- PLUS 15

1st Half
9:31 1st half Buggs enters the game tied 18-18 - leaves game 3 minutes later MN leads 21-20

2nd Half
12:12 Buggs enters the game tied 44-44 - leaves game at 5:32 MN leads 61-46

Reenters game at 3:03 MN 66-54 - Leaves game at 2:15 MN 66-55
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While watching the women I did a little follow up on buggs stats. He was plus 15 in 10 minutes of play. If somehow he played the whole 40 minutes at that rate the gophers win by 60.
 


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