STrib: Free throws? More like costly, the Gophers prove

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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per the STrib:

Andre Hollins repeated the phrase over and over.

“We’re right there,” he said five times. The refrain mimicked the broken record that has been the Gophers’ season so far after another Big Ten loss, this time at Nebraska.

At the root of the Gophers’ 1-6 start in the Big Ten are a few incessant shortcomings — one of which has been cast in spotlights following more of the same in the 52-49 undoing Tuesday: free-throw shooting. Minnesota went 9-for-19 (47.4 percent) from the line, its worst performance of the season. But the issue is anything but new.

The misfires began in the season opener against Louisville in Puerto Rico, where the Gophers missed 13 of 33 attempts. The baffling, yearlong trend had begun, and the result is the team ranks 310th out of 345 Division I teams in free-throw percentage at 63.9.

The Gophers are second-to-last in the Big Ten, behind only Michigan State. In seven conference games, Minnesota has struggled even more, managing a conference-worst 61.7 percent.

“It’s just something we haven’t been good at this year, and it’s bitten us,” said Hollins, who was 5-for-9 from the line against Nebraska. “[On Tuesday] it really bit us.”

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/289392671.html

Go Gophers!!
 



Bad Gopher said:
I thought they were irrelevant.
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Illinois a team similar to us, that has some talent but not much margin for error, has shown the contrast to us by at least salvaging a 3-4 record by shooting almost 80% on free throws. Last night versus Purdue in a game that was close to the end- they closed it out by shooting 21-24 on FTs. That's a lot better than 9-19 (like the Gophers shot) by my math. Free throws are technique + mental ability to focus. This team has good shooters other than EE- so it's mental.
 

bga1 said:
Illinois a team similar to us, that has some talent but not much margin for error, has shown the contrast to us by at least salvaging a 3-4 record by shooting almost 80% on free throws. Last night versus Purdue in a game that was close to the end- they closed it out by shooting 21-24 on FTs. That's a lot better than 9-19 (like the Gophers shot) by my math. Free throws are technique + mental ability to focus. This team has good shooters other than EE- so it's mental.
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Also worth noting Illinois has salvaged that 3-4 mark without their best player, Rayvonte Rice. The Illini are 3-2 in the Big Ten since Rice went down. A couple of talented sophomores in Malcolm Hill and Kendrick Nunn have stepped it up in Rice's absence.

No question if it comes down to free throws, huge edge for the Illini.
 


Gophers' offense BENEFITTED from their free throw performance at Nebraska.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Gophers' offense BENEFITTED from their free throw performance at Nebraska.
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I get as a metric why this is the case. But functionally, it's just hard for me to watch them miss the front end of a one and one, with a lead, or a chance to take a lead late in a game, and not think it influences the outcome of the game somehow. They could shoot the same percentages, I don't care. But when the game's on the line, you gotta knock them down, and THAT is what is costing us games, not their FT percentages overall.

Overall, I actually agree, FT shooting isn't that much of a influence. Too many great teams have sucked at FT shooting. But when you're not doing other things well, it'd be nice if you could just cash in on something that FEELS easy, at least.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Gophers' offense BENEFITTED from their free throw performance at Nebraska.
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F'in ridiculous. Ridicule isn't enough; there should be sanctions for saying stuff this stupid. If it were true, I should be cheering for all our opponents to make their free throws.
 

Bad Gopher said:
F'in ridiculous. Ridicule isn't enough; there should be sanctions for saying stuff this stupid. If it were true, I should be cheering for all our opponents to miss their free throws.
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Thank you. A missed end of a 1 and 1, is huge. Losing points, anywhere in basketball is huge...especially close games.
 



Gopher Warrior said:
Gophers' offense BENEFITTED from their free throw performance at Nebraska.
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So, if they shot 17-19 from the line against Nebraska (not counting additional shots they would have got making the front end of a 1 and 1), do you think they would have still lost the game?
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Gophers' offense BENEFITTED from their free throw performance at Nebraska.
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Brings up another question I have. Assuming you are correct, should every coach encourage players to purposely miss free throws to benefit their offense?
 


goldy93 said:
Brings up another question I have. Assuming you are correct, should every coach encourage players to purposely miss free throws to benefit their offense?
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No - not at all what I said. Free throw performance by MN was not good relative to helping a perfect or even average offense. It WAS however good relative to their overall offensive performance in the Nebraska game.

One point being that if you're going to be upset about Minnesota's offense vs. Nebraska, FT performance should not be near the top of the list... yet for so many it is.
 



Gopher Warrior said:
No - not at all what I said. Free throw performance by MN was not good relative to helping a perfect or even average offense. It WAS however good relative to their overall offensive performance in the Nebraska game.

One point being that if you're going to be upset about Minnesota's offense vs. Nebraska, FT performance should not be near the top of the list... yet for so many it is.
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That's just silly.

You can make stats say whatever you want them to say, and in general I agree with you about FT % and its lack of importance, assuming you get to the line enough in games to make the offense efficient.

But, to say because the Gopher offense was so lousy that making 9 of 19 FTs actually benefited MN's offense is stupid at best and downright wrong at worst. When a team's FG offense is lousy on a given night, MANY times good teams that get to the line can still win a game by making a nice percentage of FTs and the Gophers had that chance the other night. 19 trips to the line should have been enough for Minnesota to win vs. NEB (in an otherwise impotent offensive night), but because the FT% was low, they couldn't win despite the poor FG shooting.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
No - not at all what I said. Free throw performance by MN was not good relative to helping a perfect or even average offense. It WAS however good relative to their overall offensive performance in the Nebraska game.

One point being that if you're going to be upset about Minnesota's offense vs. Nebraska, FT performance should not be near the top of the list... yet for so many it is.
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Free throw performance is the one thing the other team cannot do a thing about. We could easily be 3-4 or better with good,timely free throw shooting despite our other problems. Have you ever thought about the idea that our missed free throws may lead to a defensive let down or increase the other team's defensive intensity? There is almost nothing more disheartening in basketball than missing the front end of a one and one.
 

One thing I won't understand is why we care about a missed free throw (worth 1 point) WAY more than we care about a missed 3 (worth 3 points). Okay, I do understand it but don't agree with it. Free throw shooting is deemed "important" because fans in particular feel they should be easy. So they harp on the missed one point shot far more than the missed (open) shots worth 2 or even 3 points.

People like to look at the box score and say, oh we make 3 more free throws we win. Our team sucks. But never think, we make one more 3 point FG we also win. And it's about the same percentages to make one more 3 as it is 3 more free throws.
 

This wouldn't even be an arguement ten years ago. Don't any of you rmember when we used to play Bobby Knight's teams at assembly hall and they would get 40 FTs in the game to our 20. Those teams made all their free throws too. The Gophs would get more FGs than Indiana and still lose by eight or ten.

Missing free throws allows defenses to play more agressively. Because if they foul you and you miss, that is as good as a stop! To keep a defense honest you need to make a good percentage of your free throws. I'd say an argument could be made that the Gophers poor free throw shooting is causing the opponents defense to be more aggressive and lower the Gophers FG percentage. Michigan State can absorb their poor FT shooting cause their offensive players are strong enough to still get good shots and finish when they are fouled. Hard to do if you are as soft as Joey, Buggs, Mo, Dre and Dre. Just think of all the uncalled fouls because the other team knows you can't make FTs!
 

scher215 said:
One thing I won't understand is why we care about a missed free throw (worth 1 point) WAY more than we care about a missed 3 (worth 3 points). Okay, I do understand it but don't agree with it. Free throw shooting is deemed "important" because fans in particular feel they should be easy. So they harp on the missed one point shot far more than the missed (open) shots worth 2 or even 3 points.

People like to look at the box score and say, oh we make 3 more free throws we win. Our team sucks. But never think, we make one more 3 point FG we also win. And it's about the same percentages to make one more 3 as it is 3 more free throws.
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Your point is true, but if I'm the other team and you are within three points I'm going to be all over your ass when you shoot! Cause I know for a fact you can't make three consecutive free throws! Game over.
 

Otis said:
This wouldn't even be an arguement ten years ago. Don't any of you rmember when we used to play Bobby Knight's teams at assembly hall and they would get 40 FTs in the game to our 20. Those teams made all their free throws too. The Gophs would get more FGs than Indiana and still lose by eight or ten.

Missing free throws allows defenses to play more agressively. Because if they foul you and you miss, that is as good as a stop! To keep a defense honest you need to make a good percentage of your free throws. I'd say an argument could be made that the Gophers poor free throw shooting is causing the opponents defense to be more aggressive and lower the Gophers FG percentage. Michigan State can absorb their poor FT shooting cause their offensive players are strong enough to still get good shots and finish when they are fouled. Hard to do if you are as soft as Joey, Buggs, Mo, Dre and Dre. Just think of all the uncalled fouls because the other team knows you can't make FTs!
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Taking it to hockey:

The Philadelphia Flyers in the 1970s were able to be the Broad Street Bullies because they killed off 90% of their penalties. I bet teams are a lot more aggressive against the Wild than Black Hawks because the Wild PP is so bad, while Kane & Toews make you pay if you take a penalty.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
No - not at all what I said. Free throw performance by MN was not good relative to helping a perfect or even average offense. It WAS however good relative to their overall offensive performance in the Nebraska game.

One point being that if you're going to be upset about Minnesota's offense vs. Nebraska, FT performance should not be near the top of the list... yet for so many it is.
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I am upset, because it is called a "free throw" for a reason. You have no one defending you. All you need to do is put it thru the basket and it is "free" points. Missing it is not good, because you are depriving your team of free points, and there is no way anyone can provide stats to say missing free throws is good for a team, or is not important. Again, here is a stat for you: if we made 75% of our free throws against Nebraska, not even looking at additional shots we would have received on the back end of a 1-and-1, we would have won the game.
 

goldy93 said:
I am upset, because it is called a "free throw" for a reason. You have no one defending you. All you need to do is put it thru the basket and it is "free" points. Missing it is not good, because you are depriving your team of free points, and there is no way anyone can provide stats to say missing free throws is good for a team, or is not important. Again, here is a stat for you: if we made 75% of our free throws against Nebraska, not even looking at additional shots we would have received on the back end of a 1-and-1, we would have won the game.
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Why is a free throw any more "free" than an uncontested, in rhythm, 3 pointer? Just curious. Is it simply the name?
 

scher215 said:
One thing I won't understand is why we care about a missed free throw (worth 1 point) WAY more than we care about a missed 3 (worth 3 points).
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I'm not sure that's the case. I think we are all concerned when a certain part of the game drops below an expected norm.

For example, when the Gophers were 3-for-22 on 3pt FGs at Maryland, it clearly was discussed and most felt that was a big reason we couldn't keep it a game. 3-for-22 is terrible, well below expected norms. If Minnesota goes 8-for-22, then no one cares or talks about (and, there's a chance they win the game).

Free throws are similar. Shoot a decent percentage from the FT line and people won't complain too much. But, shoot 46% on 19 FT attempts in a 3-point loss, and it becomes a big deal. If Minnesota goes 14-for-19, fewer think it is an issue (and, there's a chance they win the game).
 

scher215 said:
Why is a free throw any more "free" than an uncontested, in rhythm, 3 pointer? Just curious. Is it simply the name?
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Someone said it earlier, it is because the free throw is the one thing the other team can't do anything about once you are on the line. You may feel like the shooter has all the time in the world on the uncontested 3, but there is still a defender coming eventually, and you are still going through the thought process of comparing the value of the three to other options you have on the court (is there an equally open guy who shoots the 3 better than me? is there an open guy under the basket for a free dunk?). Furthermore, the player needs to be looking around to make sure he is as open as he knows he is, and the play is still going on so he needs to be thinking about his defensive assignment (whereas on a free throw you have two players back).

The free throw is the one where the player literally has all the time he wants. It is a totally uncontested shot, with no passing options to be thinking about. It is a scholarship athlete taking an undefended shot from shorter range than the 3. The shot cannot be blocked no matter how long he waits. He can release the ball from wherever he thinks gives him the best chance. Underhand if he wants, between his legs, whatever. He can sing a song, say a poem, center his xi, pray. That is a shot that needs to go down a lot more often than ours is.

Also, after my long rant, don't think I don't get really ticked off when someone who is supposed to be a shooter misses the uncontested in rhythm three point shot. I have cursed at my TV plenty of times for players missing that shot which they also should make.
 

The simple solution for the Gophers is clear.

Avoid games that go down to the wire that often are decided (in large part) on a team's ability/inability to convert at the charity stripe.

Blow someone out. Doesn't even have to be a blowout. I'll settle for up 10 with a minute to go.

Let's try that method starting tomorrow with Illinois.

Not holding my breath. Doesn't appear to be Gophers preferred modus operandi. They like white-knucklers.
 

scher215 said:
Why is a free throw any more "free" than an uncontested, in rhythm, 3 pointer? Just curious. Is it simply the name?
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One is 15 foot shot straight in front of the basket where you have ten seconds to shoot and nobody can defend you - Free Throw

One is 20.75 feet from the basket anywhere alng the arc and you have less than a second(contested) or maybe 2 sec (uncontested) to shoot with an NCAA level athlete(s) defending you - 3 pointer

Which one do you think should be considered free?
 

SelectionSunday said:
The simple solution for the Gophers is clear.

Avoid games that go down to the wire that often are decided (in large part) on a team's ability/inability to convert at the charity stripe.

Blow someone out. Doesn't even have to be a blowout. I'll settle for up 10 with a minute to go.

Let's try that method starting tomorrow with Illinois.

Not holding my breath. Doesn't appear to be Gophers preferred modus operandi. They like white-knucklers.
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They do seem to like white-knucklers, which is odd because they don't play very well in them.
 

tjgopher said:
I'm not sure that's the case. I think we are all concerned when a certain part of the game drops below an expected norm.

For example, when the Gophers were 3-for-22 on 3pt FGs at Maryland, it clearly was discussed and most felt that was a big reason we couldn't keep it a game. 3-for-22 is terrible, well below expected norms. If Minnesota goes 8-for-22, then no one cares or talks about (and, there's a chance they win the game).

Free throws are similar. Shoot a decent percentage from the FT line and people won't complain too much. But, shoot 46% on 19 FT attempts in a 3-point loss, and it becomes a big deal. If Minnesota goes 14-for-19, fewer think it is an issue (and, there's a chance they win the game).
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lol. Here's a problem with your claim --> if Minnesota shot just BELOW the D-I avg on their 2-pt attempts at Nebraska instead of how horribly they actually shot, they would have scored 14 more points!! 14!!!

Just shoot a little bit UNDER the norm... would have been good for flippin 14.

And you guys are pointing to 3 pts on FT vs avg %. Ignoring the few and-ones and pair of technical trips. Sigh. It's math & common sense.
 

good point Warrior! It's just that a free throw is like a 6 foot putt in golf. You would think an NCAA level player could make it at least 70% of the time!
 

SelectionSunday said:
The simple solution for the Gophers is clear.

Avoid games that go down to the wire that often are decided (in large part) on a team's ability/inability to convert at the charity stripe.

Blow someone out. Doesn't even have to be a blowout. I'll settle for up 10 with a minute to go.

Let's try that method starting tomorrow with Illinois.

Not holding my breath. Doesn't appear to be Gophers preferred modus operandi. They like white-knucklers.
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The up 10 with a minute to go scenario is possible. However, I just don't think this team has the ability to blow Big 10 teams out. We have a team that struggles at half court defense and defensive rebounding. When you can't make stops it's awful difficult to create distance on the scoreboard. Our lack of size and physicality have hurt us more than I would have imagined and the inability to close out close games at the FT line or hit a clutch shot is killing us.

I think the snowball started with the Purdue game. Had we won that I'd say we would be 4-3 or better right now. That game got into their heads.
 

bga1 said:
I think the snowball started with the Purdue game. Had we won that I'd say we would be 4-3 or better right now. That game got into their heads.
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With you there, Beeg. This whole mess started with Purdue. I'd say Gophers are at worst 3-4 if they win that game. That set a bad tone right away, blowing a double-digit lead immediately after 3+ weeks of easy wins over inferior competition (and yes, Furman is bad, too). Set a tone that nothing had changed from last season with regards to playing on the road, and the Gophers have done nothing since then to disprove that.

If Indiana plays like they did last night, they'll beat the Gophers by 25+ when they play in Bloomington. Strangely, I think other than Penn State the Gophers' best chance at a road win the rest of the way is in the Breslin Center, where we haven't won since the Big Ten championship/Final Four season. MSU has looked vulnerable at home several times this season, but again, I say that knowing the Gophers losing on the road is pretty darn close to death and taxes.
 

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