STrib on Diedhiou: raw talent, potential and size are evident

You're forgetting about Nwankwo. So that makes 3 in two years.

I stand by my characterization, good sir.

Jonathon spent 4 years at an American High School, IMO he's much different than Bakary, Gaston and Dieng whose pre college careers were almost exclusively overseas.
 

Jonathon spent 4 years at an American High School, IMO he's much different than Bakary, Gaston and Dieng whose pre college careers were almost exclusively overseas.

Hopefully he's less raw, yes. But you're splitting hairs.
 

He recruited them in a cycle where he thought he was going to get a 4 star local recruit to be an impact player right away. After that fell through he went searching. If you remember there were a bunch of people he recruited BEFORE getting Gas and Bakary to commit. To characterize Pitino as obsessed with large Africans because he recruited 2 in one year is completely ignoring the circumstances. He needed big bodies next year, so he had to get 2 of them in Minneapolis, regardless of ability. I think both are intriguing prospects and hopefully they stick around campus and bust their as$es because they will likely be logging major minutes next year.

That all said, I definitely see us having players with similar playing styles to Bakary more so than Mo. I do not anticipate us to have a significant big man offensive weapon in future years. Look at his recruiting since, guards, guards, guards and wings. Our big men need to rebound above the rim, set solid screens, and be able to be effective rim protectors if the opposition gets past our aggressive perimeter defense. If they can knock down a 15-20 foot jumper or heck even a 3 ball or 2, HUGE bonus. The fact that we use Mo the way we do is an adaptation to what I think Pitino really wants to do, which is clear out the middle and have his guards get layups, or open looks in the corners and run the fast break off of turnovers. His forwards (lets not call them centers) will knock down shots from the elbow and 3 point slots and will crash the boards after setting solid screens.

He also thought he was going to get Anas Osama Mahmoud, who I think is from Egypt which is also in Africa.
 

Anyway your posts sound slightly racist the way you say "Pitino's obsession with these African big men is very strange indeed." I would phrase it differently like this: "Pitino's obsession with these tall, lengthy, mobile big men who just need to learn where to be on the floor is strange indeed." doesn't that sound better?

Exactly how is that racist? Sound better, what does that even mean?

They are African. They are big men. And Pitino has recruited 3 of them in a 2 year span. If stating those facts makes you uncomfortable for some unknown reason, then that is not my problem.
 

I thought he was from NY?

Edit: My mistake he was from Nigeria originally?

Anyway your posts sound slightly racist the way you say "Pitino's obsession with these African big men is very strange indeed." I would phrase it differently like this: "Pitino's obsession with these tall, lengthy, mobile big men who just need to learn where to be on the floor is strange indeed." doesn't that sound better?

I think he was born in Nigeria but has lived in the US (NY and Florida) for a long time. Could be wrong though.

Even if he did move to the US recently I think it's way too early to label Nwankwo a "raw African big". He was one of our top targets at center... not a spring recruit like Bakary and Gas. Rated a .885 (#159 overall) by 247 composite compared to .837 (#268 overall) and .816(#353 overall) for Bakary and Gas, respectively.
 


Hopefully he's less raw, yes. But you're splitting hairs.

I'm not splitting hairs, I'm disagreeing with your choice of words and the context that I think it implies. I disagree that Pitino actively searches (is obsessed) for raw "African" (I completely disagree with that tag too, not because it's racist, but because it has nothing to do with who the guys are) born bigs. I think he has a type for his system, which I outlined in my post, and I think there was a circumstance where he had to go overseas based on him being late to the game. He even admitted as much in a press conference last year that he didn't have the ability to recruit big men in the states. Even if that continues into next year, I do not think it's because he likes raw "Africans", its because it's a type of player he looks for.
 

He also thought he was going to get Anas Osama Mahmoud, who I think is from Egypt which is also in Africa.

Anas and Bakary were recruited simultaneously, same exact situation I outlined above. At one point we predicted Bakary was going to Louisville and Anas was coming here.
 


I'm not splitting hairs, I'm disagreeing with your choice of words and the context that I think it implies. I disagree that Pitino actively searches (is obsessed) for raw "African" (I completely disagree with that tag too, not because it's racist, but because it has nothing to do with who the guys are) born bigs. I think he has a type for his system, which I outlined in my post, and I think there was a circumstance where he had to go overseas based on him being late to the game. He even admitted as much in a press conference last year that he didn't have the ability to recruit big men in the states. Even if that continues into next year, I do not think it's because he likes raw "Africans", its because it's a type of player he looks for.

I was being flippant when I said he was "obsessed" with going after the African big guys. But it looks like a little of both sides here. Like you said, Pitino is trying to recruit to a certain style of play. If you this pattern is purely a coincidence/matter of circumstance (late arrival, spring signings etc), then OK. But to me it's pretty clear that Pitino thinks the market for African-born bigs is undervalued and that he likes the idea of being able to mold these guys into players.
 



Exactly how is that racist? Sound better, what does that even mean?

They are African. They are big men. And Pitino has recruited 3 of them in a 2 year span. If stating those facts makes you uncomfortable for some unknown reason, then that is not my problem.

You're right it isn't exactly racist. My bad just sounded a bit prejudice to me but maybe I'm reading too much into it. Sorry for saying that.
 


Anas and Bakary were recruited simultaneously, same exact situation I outlined above. At one point we predicted Bakary was going to Louisville and Anas was coming here.

You are right, wasn't arguing your statement just saying we were recruiting him too.
 

Impressive that Amelia was able to gather all that after 5 minutes of playing time and 1 foul.

For the record, I think it's the right thing to start getting Gaston some minutes. Doesn't make any sense to redshirt a 21 year-old freshman. Time to start finding out if there is an untapped Big Ten player in that Big Ten-sized body. We'll need both he and Bakary to grow by leaps and bounds next season to avoid another majorly disappointing season like this one, though somehow I don't think that'll be possible. Expectations for 2015-16 will be as low as they've been around here in quite some time unless we have an about-face between now and March.

Beat Illinois.

I agree with most of this, but I don't like when a coach is able to lower his expectations by wetting the bed for a season. I think our evaluation of Pitino next year should be how he has improved out of winning the NIT two years ago, not one year out of whatever mess he is making this year.
 



I was being flippant when I said he was "obsessed" with going after the African big guys. But it looks like a little of both sides here. Like you said, Pitino is trying to recruit to a certain style of play. If you this pattern is purely a coincidence/matter of circumstance (late arrival, spring signings etc), then OK. But to me it's pretty clear that Pitino thinks the market for African-born bigs is undervalued and that he likes the idea of being able to mold these guys into players.

I'm definitely splitting hairs now but I think it's important, not because I think you're racist, but I do think you are racially profiling. If he had a tall athletic WASP that could block shots, run rim to rim, grab rebounds, set picks and knock down a jump shot or two he would take him in a heartbeat. It's a style, not a ethic group he is targeting. That's my main point. Carson Shanks was Bakary Konate before we knew of Bakary Konate. Tall, white, less athletic than these two, but raw and not looked highly upon by other schools. He would have taken him had he been allowed to have him walk on.

Are over seas recruits lightly recruited? Absolutely. Does Richard have a selling point to these guys? Absolutely. Do the two seem to meet in the middle and make sense? Absolutely, but I assure you it has nothing to do with the fact that they are African. It has more to do with the fact that they fit the style (hopefully) and they were under recruited (he was late to the game). Nwankwo's decent is a coincidence in my opinion.
 

I'm definitely splitting hairs now but I think it's important, not because I think you're racist, but I do think you are racially profiling. If he had a tall athletic WASP that could block shots, run rim to rim, grab rebounds, set picks and knock down a jump shot or two he would take him in a heartbeat. It's a style, not a ethic group he is targeting. That's my main point. Carson Shanks was Bakary Konate before we knew of Bakary Konate. Tall, white, less athletic than these two, but raw and not looked highly upon by other schools. He would have taken him had he been allowed to have him walk on.

Are over seas recruits lightly recruited? Absolutely. Does Richard have a selling point to these guys? Absolutely. Do the two seem to meet in the middle and make sense? Absolutely, but I assure you it has nothing to do with the fact that they are African. It has more to do with the fact that they fit the style (hopefully) and they were under recruited (he was late to the game). Nwankwo's decent is a coincidence in my opinion.

I like my Gopher big men like I like my coffee...
 

I'm definitely splitting hairs now but I think it's important, not because I think you're racist, but I do think you are racially profiling.

These guys could be Polish, Latvian, Mexican, or Japanese and the point would remain the same. But they're not, they are African. I don't see how I'm racially profiling?
 


I feel like there's quite a gap between an Okafor type big man and a Konate/Diedhiou type project. It seems to be taking the easy way out to claim that we have to take bigs that are THIS raw. I am sure there are a number of less athletic, but more skilled bigs out there.

I would be very surprised if we could get a player in the Okafor class for a very long time. Realistically, the list of peer schools for these types of players probably doesn't exceed ten members and the favorites from that list are probably five or fewer.

We probably have to concentrate on recruiting both of the types of big men you mentioned. I was fairly impressed when watching freshman Amida Brimah, another African big man, during Connecticut's title run last year. As far as I could see, he had only one D1 offer. He's significantly improved as a soph. Iowa's Olaseni, another African by way of England, saw a grand total of 90 minutes of floor time during his freshman year (Bakary already has 139 for the Gophers). Obviously, some of these guys can turn out to be duds but there has to be a number of schools out there wishing they took a closer look at Brimah.
 

I like my Gopher big men like I like my coffee...

gophercenters.jpg

lots of non fat cream?


one of these days I'll learn how to properly insert an image

height and weight for VanDen Einde, Holmgren and Carpenter - gotta be the tallest recruiting class of bigmen we've ever had
 

He recruited them in a cycle where he thought he was going to get a 4 star local recruit to be an impact player right away. After that fell through he went searching. If you remember there were a bunch of people he recruited BEFORE getting Gas and Bakary to commit. To characterize Pitino as obsessed with large Africans because he recruited 2 in one year is completely ignoring the circumstances. He needed big bodies next year, so he had to get 2 of them in Minneapolis, regardless of ability. I think both are intriguing prospects and hopefully they stick around campus and bust their as$es because they will likely be logging major minutes next year.

That all said, I definitely see us having players with similar playing styles to Bakary more so than Mo. I do not anticipate us to have a significant big man offensive weapon in future years. Look at his recruiting since, guards, guards, guards and wings. Our big men need to rebound above the rim, set solid screens, and be able to be effective rim protectors if the opposition gets past our aggressive perimeter defense. If they can knock down a 15-20 foot jumper or heck even a 3 ball or 2, HUGE bonus. The fact that we use Mo the way we do is an adaptation to what I think Pitino really wants to do, which is clear out the middle and have his guards get layups, or open looks in the corners and run the fast break off of turnovers. His forwards (lets not call them centers) will knock down shots from the elbow and 3 point slots and will crash the boards after setting solid screens.

We completely agree on this. Coaches style is to have his big men rebound, run, get garbage baskets and play defense. This can be taught. His offense is going to come from his guards and/or wings. It is much easier to recruit a skilled small player (Mason, Johnson, PG recruit, etc.) than it is to recruit a skilled big player. NCAA basketball is won by guards, as long as it is not lost by your big men.
That said, I am extremely excited for next year, as I think that we will have a team much better suited for how Coach wants to play. And I also think that we are going to surprise a lot of folk and be very successful.
 

NCAA basketball is won by guards, as long as it is not lost by your big men.
.

Yeah, that's a common meme, but when one of those guard oriented teams runs into a team with truly talented big men, the result can be their Waterloo. Think of #1 seed Villanova against #3 seed Florida in 2006. Louisville's guards are considered NBA draft material but it was Montrezl Harrell who beat us. And our guards had a very difficult time with Iowa's size.
 

athletic big men not in the top 50 are raw.

We are not in position to recruit athletic and skilled big men (top 50 guys). Pitino prefers an athletic guy and hopes he can teach them enough skill. Other teams take skilled guys, they dont tend to trap, or up the pace. Some teams go for a combo of both.


Yeah, that's a common meme, but when one of those guard oriented teams runs into a team with truly talented big men, the result can be their Waterloo. Think of #1 seed Villanova against #3 seed Florida in 2006. Louisville's guards are considered NBA draft material but it was Montrezl Harrell who beat us. And our guards had a very difficult time with Iowa's size.
 


I would be very surprised if we could get a player in the Okafor class for a very long time. Realistically, the list of peer schools for these types of players probably doesn't exceed ten members and the favorites from that list are probably five or fewer.

We probably have to concentrate on recruiting both of the types of big men you mentioned. I was fairly impressed when watching freshman Amida Brimah, another African big man, during Connecticut's title run last year. As far as I could see, he had only one D1 offer. He's significantly improved as a soph. Iowa's Olaseni, another African by way of England, saw a grand total of 90 minutes of floor time during his freshman year (Bakary already has 139 for the Gophers). Obviously, some of these guys can turn out to be duds but there has to be a number of schools out there wishing they took a closer look at Brimah.

I'd be happy with recruiting classes along the lines of what Gonzaga and Wichita State are producing. It would be nice to be hanging around the top 10-20 region on a consistent basis. We will never be a Kentucky or Kansas type basketball school. We have to build teams much like Coach Kill is doing with the football team. No shortcuts for this program.
 

You're right it isn't exactly racist. My bad just sounded a bit prejudice to me but maybe I'm reading too much into it. Sorry for saying that.

I would not go to far with that apology, his comment left me with the same feeling, flavor, sense of it that you seemed to get. Perhaps ZG meant nothing of the kind but it was at the very least tone deaf.
 

We are not in position to recruit athletic and skilled big men (top 50 guys). Pitino prefers an athletic guy and hopes he can teach them enough skill. Other teams take skilled guys, they dont tend to trap, or up the pace. Some teams go for a combo of both.

Well, he may prefer a certain type, but the type he gets could be a different matter. So far, the following front line Pitino recruits have played here:

Joey King, Josh Martin, Bakary, Gaston.

Joey is somewhat skilled but not very athletic. Josh Martin was purportedly athletic but appeared to be over his head, at least initially, at this level of competition. Bakary is big, seems to learn fairly quickly, and has potential but I wouldn't call him impressively athletic (he's certainly no Nerlins Noel who is very athletic but not so skilled). I haven't had much of an opportunity to see Gaston, but in the few minutes he's played he looked like he was wearing a heavily starched tuxedo.

Buggs is certainly athletic enough to trap, but that hasn't earned him big minutes on Pitino's team.
 

Again your comparing our frontcourt recruits with NBA lottery picks (not only was Nolens top 50 he was top 3-4 in his class). Comparing apples and oranges really. King was a transfer. The freshmen that Pitino has brought in are all athletic. Martin was also. Next years recruits look the same also. Gaston is athletic. He does run a bit stiff but I bet he can run and jump pretty well for his size.
 

I would not go to far with that apology, his comment left me with the same feeling, flavor, sense of it that you seemed to get. Perhaps ZG meant nothing of the kind but it was at the very least tone deaf.

I have no idea how that was tone deaf.

Keep on making up racist claims by searching for that feeling, flavor, and sense though.
 


Bakary's chances? Very good. Gas? No one knows. Looking back- EE was a lot more raw. Walker was over 3 bills. Iverson was a bull in a china shop. It's not easy finding polished 6-10 guys- all the programs know about the best ones. Name the last center we had come in at Minnesota that was ready to play day one.

Joel Pryzbilla, and being the home school couldn't have hurt our chances. As you say, finding polished centers is a challenge. Too many teams, not enough athletic big men. It's like finding offensive linemen who're ready to start as Freshmen. Unless you're part of the elite-semi-pro circle you're not getting the Jalil Okafor's. That's where we're at. We get the Bakary Konates, Gaston Diedjieu (sp?) and Jon Nwanko's. If we could land just one physical, rebounding PF it'd all work itself out I think.
 




Top Bottom