Paul Allen asks who wins Bison vs Gophers

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MNfootballfan said:
Love your post! I also played D2 football and it was the greatest experience of my life. Saying DIII is comparable to DII is similar to saying NDSU would win the Big Ten next year.
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depends on the D3 and D2 teams. the MIAC has better attendance than the NSIC and multiple MIAC teams would beat multiple NSIC teams. It's a shame we no longer see Concordia vs Moorhead State or SJU vs SCSU.
 

If NDSU had the academic standards the Gophers have, they wouldn't be as good as they are. ANYBODY can get into NDSU. It's basically one step above a community college where you can sign up. They get players who can't get in other places academically.
 

AO54 said:
depends on the D3 and D2 teams. the MIAC has better attendance than the NSIC and multiple MIAC teams would beat multiple NSIC teams. It's a shame we no longer see Concordia vs Moorhead State or SJU vs SCSU.
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I do agree that St. Thomas or Bethel could compete with the NSIC for a game or two. They do not have the size or depth to play an entire NSIC schedule. Very similar to NDSU in the Big Ten. I truly feel NDSU could play with nearly anyone in the Big Ten for a game or two, but over the course of the season depth would be the biggest thing that NDSU would struggle with. This is not a knock on NDSU, that is the difference in 85 scholarships vs. 60-65 scholarships.

I would even be willing to say the difference between D3 and D2 is larger than the difference between D1AA and D1A.

I think it goes like this:
D1A
D1AA

D2



D3
 

fraternity2017 said:
If NDSU had the academic standards the Gophers have, they wouldn't be as good as they are. ANYBODY can get into NDSU. It's basically one step above a community college where you can sign up. They get players who can't get in other places academically.
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I hate NDSU (mostly their fans) as much as the next guy, but you're being ridiculous.

Here is how NDSU compared to their playoff opponents and UMD thrown in for fun and a certain SEC school.

ACT Score (25th / 75th):

NDSU: 21 / 26
Illinois State: 22 / 26
Coastal Carolina: 18 / 22
SDSU: 20 / 25
Montana State: 21 / 27
University of Minnesota - Duluth: 22 / 26

Alabama: 15 / 19

They're not a big ten school and they don't try to be, but far from anyone can get in. NDSU kids could get into most any FCS school, and they've got more brains than most of the morons down in Football country.
 

Ski U Mah Gopher said:
Herd, AO54, etc.

All the Gopher, or at least most of them, fans are saying is "It's time to move up to FBS." Join the MWC. See how you would do against Boise, Colorado St, Utah St, & Fresno.
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One would need an invite, but it looks like the top 4 in the Valley would fit in just fine in the MWC and MAC. Would need an extra 4 million for 44 scholarships, but Ndsu could definitely compete there based on previous games vs. Ball, Central MI, CO State and Wyo. Here are the 2015 sagarin ratings. What does winning the MWC or MAC get you? It should get you an opportunity at a play-in game for the FBS Playoffs, but it does not. I've said it before, there should be a 12 team playoff including Top 4 Conf Champs, 3 of the other 6 Conferences that win a Play-In Game, and 5 At Large Bids (4 + 3 + 5). Then you'd have my interest to join a G5 FBS conference. Crappy Bowl game, not really interested.


11 MWC-MOUNTAIN (A) = 66.80 66.41 ( 11) TEAMS= 6 66.64 ( 11)
FINAL College Football 2014 through games of 2015 January 12 Monday - National Championship Game
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | GOLDEN_MEAN | PREDICTOR | ELO_SCORE
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 2.77] [ 2.78] [ 2.69] [ 2.94]
36 Boise State A = 77.33 12 2 64.81( 74) 0 1 | 0 1 | 74.13 46 | 76.17 40 | 85.36 17
52 Utah State A = 72.65 10 4 62.37( 95) 0 0 | 0 1 | 72.19 55 | 71.77 56 | 74.43 45
65 Colorado State A = 69.39 10 3 62.06( 101) 0 0 | 0 1 | 67.47 72 | 67.92 69 | 75.07 42
75 Air Force A = 67.74 10 3 59.50( 118) 0 0 | 0 0 | 67.27 75 | 65.50 86 | 73.37 48
126 Wyoming A = 56.26 4 8 65.55( 70) 0 2 | 0 2 | 55.42 128 | 55.86 129 | 57.24 117
132 New Mexico A = 55.11 4 8 62.83( 93) 0 0 | 0 1 | 53.36 142 | 55.59 130 | 55.13 128
____________________________________________________________________________________

17 MWC-WEST (A) = 57.52 57.13 ( 17) TEAMS= 6 57.24 ( 17)
FINAL College Football 2014 through games of 2015 January 12 Monday - National Championship Game
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | GOLDEN_MEAN | PREDICTOR | ELO_SCORE
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 2.77] [ 2.78] [ 2.69] [ 2.94]
90 Nevada A = 64.18 7 6 63.34( 88) 0 0 | 0 0 | 65.12 84 | 63.14 97 | 64.47 85
91 San Diego State A = 64.10 7 6 59.48( 119) 0 0 | 0 0 | 64.60 88 | 64.62 90 | 61.32 98
111 Fresno State A = 59.02 6 8 64.91( 73) 0 0 | 0 3 | 59.29 112 | 58.16 117 | 59.68 105
123 Hawai'i A = 56.62 4 9 63.88( 81) 0 0 | 0 0 | 54.61 136 | 57.81 118 | 55.33 127
153 San Jose State A = 52.01 3 9 64.12( 78) 0 0 | 0 1 | 52.00 150 | 52.08 152 | 50.83 152
172 UNLV A = 46.87 2 11 63.37( 87) 0 0 | 0 0 | 47.67 172 | 47.03 173 | 44.41 176
______________________________________________________________________________________


12 MISSOURI VALLEY (AA)= 64.12 64.35 ( 12) TEAMS= 10 64.34 ( 12)
FINAL College Football 2014 through games of 2015 January 12 Monday - National Championship Game
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | GOLDEN_MEAN | PREDICTOR | ELO_SCORE
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 2.77] [ 2.78] [ 2.69] [ 2.94]
32 North Dakota State AA = 79.73 15 1 59.98( 112) 0 0 | 0 0 | 78.59 33 | 77.86 34 | 86.22 16
41 Illinois State AA = 75.14 13 2 60.19( 111) 0 0 | 0 0 | 73.65 49 | 73.72 47 | 80.20 30
55 Northern Iowa AA = 72.15 9 5 61.16( 106) 0 0 | 0 0 | 72.16 56 | 72.64 52 | 70.04 57
67 South Dakota State AA = 69.09 9 5 63.65( 82) 0 0 | 0 1 | 69.22 68 | 67.43 73 | 72.09 51
92 Indiana State AA = 63.91 8 6 63.32( 91) 0 0 | 0 0 | 64.34 91 | 62.81 99 | 64.97 82
108 Southern Illinois AA = 60.65 6 6 61.76( 103) 0 0 | 0 0 | 61.78 103 | 60.48 106 | 58.65 110
110 Youngstown State AA = 60.15 7 5 57.80( 133) 0 0 | 0 0 | 58.42 113 | 59.65 108 | 62.53 91
113 Missouri State AA = 58.60 4 8 63.51( 85) 0 0 | 0 0 | 59.63 111 | 58.89 113 | 55.62 126
118 Western Illinois AA = 57.61 5 7 64.37( 76) 0 0 | 0 1 | 55.38 130 | 57.06 124 | 60.73 101
175 South Dakota AA = 46.46 2 10 65.94( 68) 0 1 | 0 1 | 47.97 170 | 46.42 176 | 43.51 184
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

19 MAC-EAST (A) = 53.09 52.90 ( 19) TEAMS= 7 52.91 ( 19)
FINAL College Football 2014 through games of 2015 January 12 Monday - National Championship Game
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | GOLDEN_MEAN | PREDICTOR | ELO_SCORE
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 2.77] [ 2.78] [ 2.69] [ 2.94]
119 Bowling Green A = 57.25 8 6 59.08( 125) 0 0 | 0 1 | 55.59 125 | 56.79 125 | 59.45 106
134 Akron A = 54.88 5 7 55.72( 138) 0 0 | 0 1 | 54.05 139 | 57.62 119 | 48.28 162
135 Ohio A = 54.88 6 6 58.75( 127) 0 0 | 0 1 | 54.50 137 | 55.23 134 | 53.48 135
141 Buffalo A = 53.57 5 6 52.62( 151) 0 1 | 0 1 | 53.48 141 | 55.15 135 | 48.84 160
154 Massachusetts A = 51.72 3 9 58.00( 131) 0 0 | 0 0 | 53.16 145 | 53.25 143 | 44.87 175
159 Miami-Ohio A = 50.33 2 10 60.95( 108) 0 0 | 0 1 | 51.19 156 | 52.59 148 | 42.15 189
169 Kent State A = 47.65 2 9 59.64( 117) 0 1 | 0 1 | 47.70 171 | 49.51 163 | 41.68 191
_____________________________________________________________________________________

14 MAC-WEST (A) = 61.61 59.95 ( 16) TEAMS= 6 61.09 ( 14)
FINAL College Football 2014 through games of 2015 January 12 Monday - National Championship Game
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | GOLDEN_MEAN | PREDICTOR | ELO_SCORE
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 2.77] [ 2.78] [ 2.69] [ 2.94]
72 Northern Illinois A = 68.15 11 3 59.13( 122) 0 1 | 0 2 | 66.12 83 | 67.15 75 | 72.50 50
73 Toledo A = 68.05 9 4 61.48( 104) 0 0 | 0 1 | 66.45 81 | 68.10 68 | 69.01 66
88 Western Michigan A = 64.87 8 5 58.65( 129) 0 0 | 0 0 | 64.48 90 | 65.78 84 | 62.29 95
101 Central Michigan A = 62.09 7 6 59.90( 114) 0 0 | 0 0 | 63.29 95 | 62.43 101 | 58.82 108
117 Ball State A = 57.72 5 7 58.69( 128) 0 0 | 0 0 | 58.36 114 | 58.51 116 | 54.06 130
208 Eastern Michigan A = 38.81 2 10 62.24( 97) 0 1 | 0 2 | 36.60 211 | 38.49 209 | 41.02 199
________________________________________________________________________________________
 


afurry91 said:
I hate NDSU (mostly their fans) as much as the next guy, but you're being ridiculous.

Here is how NDSU compared to their playoff opponents and UMD thrown in for fun and a certain SEC school.

ACT Score (25th / 75th):

NDSU: 21 / 26
Illinois State: 22 / 26
Coastal Carolina: 18 / 22
SDSU: 20 / 25
Montana State: 21 / 27
University of Minnesota - Duluth: 22 / 26

Alabama: 15 / 19

They're not a big ten school and they don't try to be, but far from anyone can get in. NDSU kids could get into most any FCS school, and they've got more brains than most of the morons down in Football country.
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Be careful, the IVY is FCS. Being FCS or FBS has nothing to do with academic standards. To be FCS or FBS you must meet DI academic standards . . . as both are DI you understand. The Sunbelt and the SEC are FBS, just like the B1G.
 

Im aware that there are great FCS schools. I was just making a generalization. The point was that they are no worse than most colleges around.
 

Herd said:
One would need an invite, but it looks like the top 4 in the Valley would fit in just fine in the MWC and MAC. Would need an extra 4 million for 44 scholarships, but Ndsu could definitely compete there based on previous games vs. Ball, Central MI, CO State and Wyo. Here are the 2015 sagarin ratings. What does winning the MWC or MAC get you? It should get you an opportunity at a play-in game for the FBS Playoffs, but it does not. I've said it before, there should be a 12 team playoff including Top 4 Conf Champs, 3 of the other 6 Conferences that win a Play-In Game, and 5 At Large Bids (4 + 3 + 5). Then you'd have my interest to join a G5 FBS conference. Crappy Bowl game, not really interested.


11 MWC-MOUNTAIN (A) = 66.80 66.41 ( 11) TEAMS= 6 66.64 ( 11)
FINAL College Football 2014 through games of 2015 January 12 Monday - National Championship Game
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | GOLDEN_MEAN | PREDICTOR | ELO_SCORE
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 2.77] [ 2.78] [ 2.69] [ 2.94]
36 Boise State A = 77.33 12 2 64.81( 74) 0 1 | 0 1 | 74.13 46 | 76.17 40 | 85.36 17
52 Utah State A = 72.65 10 4 62.37( 95) 0 0 | 0 1 | 72.19 55 | 71.77 56 | 74.43 45
65 Colorado State A = 69.39 10 3 62.06( 101) 0 0 | 0 1 | 67.47 72 | 67.92 69 | 75.07 42
75 Air Force A = 67.74 10 3 59.50( 118) 0 0 | 0 0 | 67.27 75 | 65.50 86 | 73.37 48
126 Wyoming A = 56.26 4 8 65.55( 70) 0 2 | 0 2 | 55.42 128 | 55.86 129 | 57.24 117
132 New Mexico A = 55.11 4 8 62.83( 93) 0 0 | 0 1 | 53.36 142 | 55.59 130 | 55.13 128
____________________________________________________________________________________

17 MWC-WEST (A) = 57.52 57.13 ( 17) TEAMS= 6 57.24 ( 17)
FINAL College Football 2014 through games of 2015 January 12 Monday - National Championship Game
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | GOLDEN_MEAN | PREDICTOR | ELO_SCORE
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 2.77] [ 2.78] [ 2.69] [ 2.94]
90 Nevada A = 64.18 7 6 63.34( 88) 0 0 | 0 0 | 65.12 84 | 63.14 97 | 64.47 85
91 San Diego State A = 64.10 7 6 59.48( 119) 0 0 | 0 0 | 64.60 88 | 64.62 90 | 61.32 98
111 Fresno State A = 59.02 6 8 64.91( 73) 0 0 | 0 3 | 59.29 112 | 58.16 117 | 59.68 105
123 Hawai'i A = 56.62 4 9 63.88( 81) 0 0 | 0 0 | 54.61 136 | 57.81 118 | 55.33 127
153 San Jose State A = 52.01 3 9 64.12( 78) 0 0 | 0 1 | 52.00 150 | 52.08 152 | 50.83 152
172 UNLV A = 46.87 2 11 63.37( 87) 0 0 | 0 0 | 47.67 172 | 47.03 173 | 44.41 176
______________________________________________________________________________________


12 MISSOURI VALLEY (AA)= 64.12 64.35 ( 12) TEAMS= 10 64.34 ( 12)
FINAL College Football 2014 through games of 2015 January 12 Monday - National Championship Game
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | GOLDEN_MEAN | PREDICTOR | ELO_SCORE
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 2.77] [ 2.78] [ 2.69] [ 2.94]
32 North Dakota State AA = 79.73 15 1 59.98( 112) 0 0 | 0 0 | 78.59 33 | 77.86 34 | 86.22 16
41 Illinois State AA = 75.14 13 2 60.19( 111) 0 0 | 0 0 | 73.65 49 | 73.72 47 | 80.20 30
55 Northern Iowa AA = 72.15 9 5 61.16( 106) 0 0 | 0 0 | 72.16 56 | 72.64 52 | 70.04 57
67 South Dakota State AA = 69.09 9 5 63.65( 82) 0 0 | 0 1 | 69.22 68 | 67.43 73 | 72.09 51
92 Indiana State AA = 63.91 8 6 63.32( 91) 0 0 | 0 0 | 64.34 91 | 62.81 99 | 64.97 82
108 Southern Illinois AA = 60.65 6 6 61.76( 103) 0 0 | 0 0 | 61.78 103 | 60.48 106 | 58.65 110
110 Youngstown State AA = 60.15 7 5 57.80( 133) 0 0 | 0 0 | 58.42 113 | 59.65 108 | 62.53 91
113 Missouri State AA = 58.60 4 8 63.51( 85) 0 0 | 0 0 | 59.63 111 | 58.89 113 | 55.62 126
118 Western Illinois AA = 57.61 5 7 64.37( 76) 0 0 | 0 1 | 55.38 130 | 57.06 124 | 60.73 101
175 South Dakota AA = 46.46 2 10 65.94( 68) 0 1 | 0 1 | 47.97 170 | 46.42 176 | 43.51 184
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

19 MAC-EAST (A) = 53.09 52.90 ( 19) TEAMS= 7 52.91 ( 19)
FINAL College Football 2014 through games of 2015 January 12 Monday - National Championship Game
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | GOLDEN_MEAN | PREDICTOR | ELO_SCORE
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 2.77] [ 2.78] [ 2.69] [ 2.94]
119 Bowling Green A = 57.25 8 6 59.08( 125) 0 0 | 0 1 | 55.59 125 | 56.79 125 | 59.45 106
134 Akron A = 54.88 5 7 55.72( 138) 0 0 | 0 1 | 54.05 139 | 57.62 119 | 48.28 162
135 Ohio A = 54.88 6 6 58.75( 127) 0 0 | 0 1 | 54.50 137 | 55.23 134 | 53.48 135
141 Buffalo A = 53.57 5 6 52.62( 151) 0 1 | 0 1 | 53.48 141 | 55.15 135 | 48.84 160
154 Massachusetts A = 51.72 3 9 58.00( 131) 0 0 | 0 0 | 53.16 145 | 53.25 143 | 44.87 175
159 Miami-Ohio A = 50.33 2 10 60.95( 108) 0 0 | 0 1 | 51.19 156 | 52.59 148 | 42.15 189
169 Kent State A = 47.65 2 9 59.64( 117) 0 1 | 0 1 | 47.70 171 | 49.51 163 | 41.68 191
_____________________________________________________________________________________

14 MAC-WEST (A) = 61.61 59.95 ( 16) TEAMS= 6 61.09 ( 14)
FINAL College Football 2014 through games of 2015 January 12 Monday - National Championship Game
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | GOLDEN_MEAN | PREDICTOR | ELO_SCORE
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 2.77] [ 2.78] [ 2.69] [ 2.94]
72 Northern Illinois A = 68.15 11 3 59.13( 122) 0 1 | 0 2 | 66.12 83 | 67.15 75 | 72.50 50
73 Toledo A = 68.05 9 4 61.48( 104) 0 0 | 0 1 | 66.45 81 | 68.10 68 | 69.01 66
88 Western Michigan A = 64.87 8 5 58.65( 129) 0 0 | 0 0 | 64.48 90 | 65.78 84 | 62.29 95
101 Central Michigan A = 62.09 7 6 59.90( 114) 0 0 | 0 0 | 63.29 95 | 62.43 101 | 58.82 108
117 Ball State A = 57.72 5 7 58.69( 128) 0 0 | 0 0 | 58.36 114 | 58.51 116 | 54.06 130
208 Eastern Michigan A = 38.81 2 10 62.24( 97) 0 1 | 0 2 | 36.60 211 | 38.49 209 | 41.02 199
________________________________________________________________________________________
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Why do you keep citing Sagarin ratings instead of talking about the strength of the teams you beat this season?
 

I think the better St Johns, St. Thomas, and Bethel teams in recent years could compete in the NSIC for the whole year, since their depth has been very good some years, and the first team talent has been equal or better than most of the NSIC.

For a while it looked like Caruso was stocking up on talent well above the DIII level, but something as been missing the last two years. I suspected he was headed to the FCS sooner than later if he had been able to sustain what St. Thomas did in 2011 and 2012. Now that may not happen, although part of the problem might not be talent, but that the players are starting to tune him out.

Obviously Whitewater and Mt. Union could pound on most of the NSIC teams any year.
 



oak_street1981 said:
I think the better St Johns, St. Thomas, and Bethel teams in recent years could compete in the NSIC for the whole year, since their depth has been very good some years, and the first team talent has been equal or better than most of the NSIC. For a while it looked like Caruso was stocking up on talent well above the DIII level, but something as been missing the last two years. I suspected he was headed to the FCS sooner than later if he had been able to sustain what St. Thomas did in 2011 and 2012. Now that may not happen, although part of the problem might not be talent, but that the players are starting to tune him out. Obviously Whitewater and Mt. Union could pound on most of the NSIC teams any year.
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I don't think you know what you're talking about. I don't think the d3 schools you listed would beat many if any in the nsic. I admit I didn't see bethel play this year but I did watch the johnnies as well as st thomas this year. d3 teams would struggle in the nsic
 

oak_street1981 said:
I think the better St Johns, St. Thomas, and Bethel teams in recent years could compete in the NSIC for the whole year, since their depth has been very good some years, and the first team talent has been equal or better than most of the NSIC.

For a while it looked like Caruso was stocking up on talent well above the DIII level, but something as been missing the last two years. I suspected he was headed to the FCS sooner than later if he had been able to sustain what St. Thomas did in 2011 and 2012. Now that may not happen, although part of the problem might not be talent, but that the players are starting to tune him out.

Obviously Whitewater and Mt. Union could pound on most of the NSIC teams any year.
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I disagree about SJU, UST, and Bethel. There is not a chance that their first team talent is equal or better than most of the NSIC. Just curious if you have watched any NSIC teams in person.

It would be fun to see Whitewater/Mount Union play NSIC teams, they are both phenomenal teams/programs. It is clear that no one in D3 can play with either team.
 

I played for SMSU in the late 90's and we got our a$$es handed to us by UW-Eau Claire during the former Border Battle cup (NSIC vs. WIAC or whatever they're called) in the Dome. But, SMSU has always sucked, UWEC was outstanding back then, and the NSIC was the red-headed step child to the NCC.
 

I would love for the gophers to play NDSU each season. It would be a great opportunity to see local kids play who were not offered scholarships by the U. Who would win? The gophers 70 to 80% of the time (we would always get NDSU's best game).
 



Sportsfan24 said:
I would love for the gophers to play NDSU each season. It would be a great opportunity to see local kids play who were not offered scholarships by the U. Who would win? The gophers 70 to 80% of the time (we would always get NDSU's best game).
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I would be game for that. I hope they move up to the FBS and we can make it happen. Maybe we'd even agree to head up to Fargo once every 4 or 5 years.
 

JoeDirt said:
I played for SMSU in the late 90's and we got our a$$es handed to us by UW-Eau Claire during the former Border Battle cup (NSIC vs. WIAC or whatever they're called) in the Dome. But, SMSU has always sucked, UWEC was outstanding back then, and the NSIC was the red-headed step child to the NCC.
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Yeah several WIAC schools would be fine in the NSIC. Heck, UWEC whupped SMSU just a couple years ago, but they're a fairly unique conference as far as DIII goes.
 


You are welcome for that, Furry. =)
 




bleedsmaroonandgold said:
They are based on margin of victory as well, which is what skews them. Who is the best team NDSU has beaten this year?
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Illinois State. If they didn't include margin of victory it would be far more skewed.
 



afurry91 said:
So a crappy Indiana?
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Considering Illinois State's QB Tre Roberson was an Indiana transfer, sure. His QB rating was higher for the Hoosiers in 2013 than the Redbirds in 2014. If we go by Sagarin, Ill. State was more like Miami or Virginia Tech.

Ill. State does play Iowa next year so maybe you could make a comparison then.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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