Leidner Shows Signs of Improvement

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my humble prediction...Leidner completes more passes this year, has more TD's passing this year and runs fewer yards this year. Come talk to me on Jan 2 about my prediction
 

GopherHomer said:
So, basically you're saying - Leidner will not improve but possibly has a chance to by some degree, maybe. Riveting stuff!
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Where did I say "Leidner will not improve"? Post that exact quote. I said he's not going to become better this spring just because you put a couple different receivers on the field. Obviously, everyone can "improve". But the rubes that are expecting Mitch Leidner to turn into some proficient passer that runs a game-changing pass offense that puts up big numbers are living in a dream world. Just read what the pro scouts say...
Of course, he could still almost single-handedly beat Wisconsin twice and Ohio State and win a couple of bowl games against the SEC and become the next Tom Brady...
 

beat bucky said:
Where did I say "Leidner will not improve"? Post the quote. If you ever find it. Everyone can "improve". What I said is "he is what he is" and "he ain't what he ain't". The rubes that are expecting Mitch Leidner to turn into some proficient passer that runs a well-oiled pass offense that puts up big numbers are living in a dream world. I'm sorry alright.
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I don't recall anybody expecting that from Leidner.
 

Well, its spring ball and we're already hearing he shows signs of improvement. You know, I really do hope that will be seen in the fall. Because seriously, when you consider his overall numbers last year and his absolutely brutal play in the TCU, Wisconsin, and Ohio State games, I can't imagine a scenario that he shouldn't "improve".
 

beat bucky said:
Well, its spring ball and we're already hearing he shows signs of improvement. You know, I really do hope that will be seen in the fall. Because seriously, when you consider his overall numbers last year and his absolutely brutal play in the TCU, Wisconsin, and Ohio State games, I can't imagine a scenario that he shouldn't "improve".
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So are you saying he is going to improve this fall? if yes, I like your positive attitude!
 


beat bucky said:
Well, its spring ball and we're already hearing he shows signs of improvement. You know, I really do hope that will be seen in the fall.
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I assume you meant "we're already hearing he hasn't shown signs of improvement". If you've seen him at practice or if you haven't and you simply want to go off of GI and 247 practice reports you'd know he looked better last spring and fall than he does this spring. Very inconsistent and he's not giving the receivers nice balls to make plays on.
 

sonnygarcia said:
I assume you meant "we're already hearing he hasn't shown signs of improvement". If you've seen him at practice or if you haven't and you simply want to go off of GI and 247 practice reports you'd know he looked better last spring and fall than he does this spring. Very inconsistent and he's not giving the receivers nice balls to make plays on.
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You must go to different practices than I do. Mitch is better. I truly think something is wrong with you. Your hatred of ML prevents you from seeing reality. Mitch is going against a very good defense. Saturday he was 5 for 10 with two passes dropped. He is also throwing the short pass much better. Please, and I mean this seriously, seek some counseling for your Mitch hatred.
 

I'd just like to see him get his completion percentage up into the 60s. I think we get good running, and if he can become a solid and consistent passer that should be all we need from him. He's capable of that.
 

diefirma said:
You must go to different practices than I do. Mitch is better. I truly think something is wrong with you. Your hatred of ML prevents you from seeing reality. Mitch is going against a very good defense. Saturday he was 5 for 10 with two passes dropped. He is also throwing the short pass much better. Please, and I mean this seriously, seek some counseling for your Mitch hatred.
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Again, it's not Mitch hatred. It's a "how in the he!! can our coaching staff produce this kind of a QB in year 5" indictment on the coaching staff. He is the starter and is a terrible passing QB and that is nothing against the kid, but its reality; and it's a pathetic reality for our offensive coordinator and our QB coach. After Nelson left there needed to be a sit-down amongst the staff to find a BIG quality QB to come in. What do they do? They sit back and think it's OK to have a starting QB you recruited to eventually move to TE (Leidner), a backup QB you recruited to play an athlete position (Streveler) and a recruit coming to campus that no other BCS program in America wanted to come play QB for them, but were all really wanting him as a safety. Oh and not to mention he was 5'10" and left because a kid whose only offer out of HS was south Dakota state walked on and looked better enough than you to make you leave.

So this has nothing to do with Mitch, I'm pointing out how terrible he is at being a quarterback because I want it to sink in that this staff has no f'ing clue how to develop a QB at a BCS level. Its too bad because I think all we'd need was an average QB this year to make it to Indy.
 



sonnygarcia said:
Again, it's not Mitch hatred. It's a "how in the he!! can our coaching staff produce this kind of a QB in year 5" indictment on the coaching staff. He is the starter and is a terrible passing QB and that is nothing against the kid, but its reality; and it's a pathetic reality for our offensive coordinator and our QB coach. After Nelson left there needed to be a sit-down amongst the staff to find a BIG quality QB to come in. What do they do? They sit back and think it's OK to have a starting QB you recruited to eventually move to TE (Leidner), a backup QB you recruited to play an athlete position (Streveler) and a recruit coming to campus that no other BCS program in America wanted to come play QB for them, but were all really wanting him as a safety. Oh and not to mention he was 5'10" and left because a kid whose only offer out of HS was south Dakota state walked on and looked better enough than you to make you leave.

So this has nothing to do with Mitch, I'm pointing out how terrible he is at being a quarterback because I want it to sink in that this staff has no f'ing clue how to develop a QB at a BCS level. Its too bad because I think all we'd need was an average QB this year to make it to Indy.
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The attack on our coaching staff for not having an elite passer is somewhat accurate (albeit a little short-sighted), but PLEASE stop trying to say that Nelson was any better than what you currently see. Your Mankato is showing...
 

GopherHomer said:
The attack on our coaching staff for not having an elite passer is somewhat accurate (albeit a little short-sighted), but PLEASE stop trying to say that Nelson was any better than what you currently see. Your Mankato is showing...
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Nelson was just as bad as Mitch, when did I say Nelson was good? He was suppose to be the savior and had a higher ceiling than any QBs on the roster but was not good in his time at MN. Nelson looked good right out of the shoot, but in his second year really didn't do anything. Whether that was because of the coaching/development or Nelson just not being as good as we thought he'd be we'll never know (for obvious reasons).

And what does my "Mankato is showing" mean? I'm from N Mn and have driven through Mkto a few times but only stopped for gas. Nelson was never going to be our answer at QB and seemed to be a mental case under center, much like Mitch. That is why I'm questioning our OC and QB coach; what are they doing to these guys to get them to perform like they have a vice around their neck?
 

Mitch is our QB because things didn't go according to plan. Gray and Shortell couldn't get it done in 2012 so Nelson was rushed onto the field and he crumbled. His last series as a gopher against Syracuse was about as sorry a one as I've ever seen. Mitch brought us back in that game and opened up a QB race Nelson wanted no part of. They haven't had a lot of lunch on the recruiting trail for QBs as well. Maybe that's changed with Croft but we'll have to wait and see.
 

gophmeister said:
His last series as a gopher against Syracuse was about as sorry a one as I've ever seen.
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This is what sealed it for me in thinking it was mainly "mental" for Nelson (and all the other QBs who have performed so poorly under this staff); there is no way Nelson could have ever thrown a ball as poorly as he was throwing it that game. I remember he wasn't even throwing ducks, those things were end-over-ending and coming up 20 ft short of the target. It was like his arm was getting hit in the line of throwing (but it wasn't). Mitch came in that game and looked comfortable, made mistakes but at least was throwing a nice deep ball. He becomes the main-guy and the coaching staff gets their hands all over him and the following season he's so effed in the head he can't even throw a spiral anymore! I was actually excited for Mitch to be the guy heading into Spring 2014 because Nelson was so mentally screwed I didn't think there was a chance he'd recover (at least not at MN). What are the coaches doing to these guys?
 



Its not that hard folks. ML7 isn't as bad as he looked against TCU, tOSU, etc. Last year and he isn't as good as he looked against IA, MO, etc. More than good or bad, ML7 is inconsistent. Folks need to understand that and stop trying to shove him in the "good" or "bad" bucket. If he was consistent (regardless of where in the middle of that spectrum he ended up) then the coaches could game plan toward his strengths and away from his weaknesses. Hard to do that when you don't know what you will get.

Next, stop with the spiral nonsense.

Finally, sonny, recognize he is our best option. All the other stuff you are saying doesn't matter in that context.


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sonnygarcia said:
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beat bucky said:
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Very odd posts by you two. Sonny you've been so down on Mitch and the coaches, I wonder what happened. Maybe I've been out of the loop a bit, but I don't recall hearing how you turned so sour. Since QB is the most important position on the field, it's partly because it's the most difficult to play, coach, recruit, etc. I think the staff has done a great job of building this program to B1G contention, in spite of how awful you think they have done at the QB spot. Just be sure to come back here next fall and post your thoughts about Mitch's play and the QB position in general.
bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I'd just like to see him get his completion percentage up into the 60s....He's capable of that.
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Three QBs in the top 10 of B1G completed 60%. Mitch will improve, just like the entire team and program have continued to do since JK arrived.

There are areas we can get better and I think we will.
 

Me personally, I like Mitch. He gives everything, bleeds for the program and still has two full years. He has some things to work on, but no one can deny that he is a warrior and a leader.
 

Leidner for Heisman..... He's gonna blow away all your low expectations.
 

beat bucky said:
Well, its spring ball and we're already hearing he shows signs of improvement. You know, I really do hope that will be seen in the fall. Because seriously, when you consider his overall numbers last year and his absolutely brutal play in the TCU, Wisconsin, and Ohio State games, I can't imagine a scenario that he shouldn't "improve".
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A lot of QB's looked brutal playing against these teams. How about talking about his play during the Iowa and Nebraska games? Was he brutal then?
 

sonnygarcia said:
Again, it's not Mitch hatred. It's a "how in the he!! can our coaching staff produce this kind of a QB in year 5" indictment on the coaching staff. He is the starter and is a terrible passing QB and that is nothing against the kid, but its reality; and it's a pathetic reality for our offensive coordinator and our QB coach. After Nelson left there needed to be a sit-down amongst the staff to find a BIG quality QB to come in. What do they do? They sit back and think it's OK to have a starting QB you recruited to eventually move to TE (Leidner), a backup QB you recruited to play an athlete position (Streveler) and a recruit coming to campus that no other BCS program in America wanted to come play QB for them, but were all really wanting him as a safety. Oh and not to mention he was 5'10" and left because a kid whose only offer out of HS was south Dakota state walked on and looked better enough than you to make you leave.

So this has nothing to do with Mitch, I'm pointing out how terrible he is at being a quarterback because I want it to sink in that this staff has no f'ing clue how to develop a QB at a BCS level. Its too bad because I think all we'd need was an average QB this year to make it to Indy.
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Jumping in this a little late but where woudl you find this so called Elite QB by year 5 for a program that Brewster left in such a horrible place? he went out and recruited a QB that many other programs wanted. Nelson could not handle the heat fom a back up and left.
The recruiters have brought in guys that are better at the QB position every year. But you cannot keep putting RS Freshman and RS Sophmores out there unless you are getting the type the Buckeyes are getting andwith more wins for the program they will be there for us

what we have will do fine in our offense until the wins continue to pile up. then more polished QB's wil be taking serious looks at our program. until then why bash the staff? the team has improved dispite not having those 5 star QB's you are looking for.

that horrible QB that this staff recruited was 1 win away from the BigTen championship as a RS Soph. he should not get any worse and the team should continue to improve
 

Mitch's issue is definitely consistency and reading the field. He has a strong enough arm and has actually made enough beautiful throws to show why he's a B1G QB. The 'he'll never improve' stuff is silly and as a nerd who watched each game multiple times, its evident that he wasn't working with open receivers very often and other than Maxx he wasn't often helped out much by his WRs either with tough catches or with YAC. Mitch had some bad throws and also not always seeing the field very well but he was a first year starter. We're not talking about turning into an All American, but if he keeps the TO's down, erases 2 of those poor throws each game, and sees the field just a little bit better, that's the difference between winning and losing a lot of the time
 


killme said:
Sonny you've been so down on Mitch and the coaches, I wonder what happened. Maybe I've been out of the loop a bit, but I don't recall hearing how you turned so sour.
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I haven't soured on the Gophs, I'm as big of a Gopher fan now as I ever was. I think the difference now is I see they have all the pieces to be the team we've always wanted them to be, so I see the QB position playing at such a low level relative to all the other position groups and it pisses me the 'F' off because I know that's the reason we'll fall 1 game short of making it to Indy again. And all I want to see happen is for us to finally break through, but we can't do that if we aren't able to be balanced on offense. Back when we were terrible I didn't get irked by anything because I had zero expectations, we were just going to be bad and I knew it and didn't really care, I guess. Now I care more (even though it doesn't appear that way).
 

DoubleB said:
where woudl you find this so called Elite QB by year 5 for a program that Brewster left in such a horrible place?
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we don't need an elite QB, we need an average one. They can definitely be found.

DoubleB said:
The recruiters have brought in guys that are better at the QB position every year.
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Not even close. Streveler is worse than Mitch, and DRM was worse than Streveler. DRM got beat out by a walk-on who only had an SDSU offer the minute he stepped on campus. And we know Perra isn't that good because he'd behind Streveler on the depth chart. And Streveler is so good at quarter-backing the staff let him throw the ball 5 times in his only start.

DoubleB said:
that horrible QB that this staff recruited was 1 win away from the BigTen championship as a RS Soph.
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David Cobb, Maxx Williams and our Defense got us 1 win away from the BT Championship game. ML had very little to do with that as he was not relied upon to make game changing plays, they just didn't want him to screw up.
 

sonnygarcia said:
I haven't soured on the Gophs...
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OK, I appreciate your explanation and also your passion. I'm generally an optimistic glass-half-full guy, so rampant negativism goes against my grain. I recall Jerry raising those non-existent expectations through the roof when he first started at Saginaw Valley. People who previously didn't care were crying after a crushing loss. So, cheer up. I think the explanations for our QB situation in this thread are pretty insightful, and I've been pretty consistent in saying I'm seeing marked improvement in Mitch last year. He has some stuff that you can't teach -- leadership, especially. The guys will play hard around him and he's also working hard off the field to get better.

You're entitled to let off your steam here. But don't let your negativism ruin your chance to enjoy this.
 

By sonnygarcia "And we know Perra isn't that good because he's behind Streveler on the depth chart."

I empathize with a lot of Sonny's points and frustrations. But this one, no. Perra was an awarded and statistically accomplished high school QB, especially when you consider the weather in which he had to play. And the main reason he's behind Streveler is not based on talent but on the fact that Jerry gave Strev university money. Its always tough for a coach/manager to sit the high priced player for a try-out player.
 

mggoph said:
Me personally, I like Mitch. He gives everything, bleeds for the program and still has two full years. He has some things to work on, but no one can deny that he is a warrior and a leader.
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What a lot of people are criticizing Leidner over is what he's been coached on. Case in point: Outback Bowl, we were looking at one of the better D-Lines we faced. Pockets collapsed quickly and instead of the wide receivers working back to get open, they blocked. Perhaps with our skill set at the time, this is what we needed to consistently do. We can see that in Leidners rushing attempts and yards gained. I'm Ok with that if that's what our staff has seen our best possibility of success was.

My guess is this year, we'll see Leidner scrambling and hitting receivers who have worked back to him when the heat was on. There were a few times we did this last year, but very rarely. We saw a lot of quarterback tucks with some decent success.

This is coaching to the quarterbacks talents (and talent of his wide receivers), so its more a philosophy than choice. Either way, kudos to the team last year for sticking with things that worked. This year, I'd love to see us air it out more...but again, we may not have that type of talent yet.
 

beat bucky said:
By sonnygarcia "And we know Perra isn't that good because he's behind Streveler on the depth chart."

I empathize with a lot of Sonny's points and frustrations. But this one, no. Perra was an awarded and statistically accomplished high school QB, especially when you consider the weather in which he had to play. And the main reason he's behind Streveler is not based on talent but on the fact that Jerry gave Strev university money. Its always tough for a coach/manager to sit the high priced player for a try-out player.
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Agree, Kill also mentioned he didn't want to burn Perra's red-shirt if he didn't have to. Perra was also six month out of a surgury when the season started so prudent to give him time to adequately heal.
 

sonnygarcia said:
we don't need an elite QB, we need an average one. They can definitely be found.



Not even close. Streveler is worse than Mitch, and DRM was worse than Streveler. DRM got beat out by a walk-on who only had an SDSU offer the minute he stepped on campus. And we know Perra isn't that good because he'd behind Streveler on the depth chart. And Streveler is so good at quarter-backing the staff let him throw the ball 5 times in his only start.



David Cobb, Maxx Williams and our Defense got us 1 win away from the BT Championship game. ML had very little to do with that as he was not relied upon to make game changing plays, they just didn't want him to screw up.
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I do understand your frustration. It is a team game but if you think Cobb and Williams and defense was the only reasons we were 1 game away then there is no sense in arguing with you because you are not seeing the whole picture. I am not a huge Limegrover fan but he did what he had to do with what they had. I think he was too conservative and when the team should have been passing to hone that set of skills against teams that a mistake might not have cost the game he didn't.

The depth chart for the QB's is not a great indication of where the group is at. when one guys plays the majority of the season and none of the other guys gets in to the game how can you say one is better than the other?

after watching this team for decades I am not giving as much credit to Cobb as everyone else. yes he ran the ball tough but isn't that the job of a running back? given the same opportunity would most backs run hard? I will make a prediction that we will not miss him this season as much as maybe Wilson on defense.

Croft may be the best QB on the team but we wont know for at least three seasons barring injuries.
 

If Leidner is qb in 2015 we should expect the same play calling. If someone else plays qb we should expect the same play calling.
 

watertown 1987 guy n said:
He didn't want to burn Perra's red-shirt if he didn't have to. Perra was also six month out of a surgury when the season started so prudent to give him time to adequately heal.
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This is so much more the reason Perra was behind CS5 than because Streveler had a scholy. Of course, Perra was also a true Freshman and there was also a chance that Strev had a better grasp of the playbook - and maybe, just maybe, he was better than Perra last year?


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