Newly released video shows full encounter between Nelson and Kolstad

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MNVCGUY said:
In my opinion nothing prior to the first blow really matters. Nelson clearly was not threatening Kolstad in any physical way at the time he attacked him from behind. Still doesn't excuse what Nelson did and he deserves to and will be punished for his actions but this clearly shows the heat of the moment aspect of what happened and I sincerely hope that Kolstad receives some form of punishment for his actions in this as well because he is clearly not blameless or the innocent victim as many have tried to make him out to be. Just stupid/violent behavior all the way around in this one.
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If you think a question about what started it is irrelevant or an excuse for Kolstad's or Nelson's actions you need to get ahold of yourself.
 


CP Gopher said:
The majority of guys I know would not kick an unconscious man in the head, even in retaliation.
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I am pretty close with my friends, and I would have a very hard time saying with any confidence what they would or would not do in that situation, especially when they were drunk.

For clarification, none of my friends have criminal records of assualt, or history of being violent.
 


GopherLady said:
I think in the split second he decided to do that, he didn't know he was unconscious. He probably thought he just hit the ground.
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You are making a lot of very big assumptions here - based on what??
 


Spoofin said:
We needed another thread on this.
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There are a lot of threads on Gopherhole that don't interest me, so I don't click on them. Try that out and see if it works for you. No charge for the advice.
 

Never said I wasn't interested in the topic. Just didn't understand why we needed 2 active threads on the same topic. It makes it much easier to get and discuss different opinions if they are all in one place. No charge for this (what I thought was obvious) advice.
 

Spoofin said:
Never said I wasn't interested in the topic. Just didn't understand why we needed 2 active threads on the same topic. It makes it much easier to get and discuss different opinions if they are all in one place. No charge for this (what I thought was obvious) advice.
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New video, new thread. Maybe I took your remark to be more of a rebuke than it was. It happens a lot on Gopherhole that people drop into a thread so that they can tell everyone how stupid or unnecessary the thread is. I thought that's what your were doing.
 

Iceland12 said:
If you think a question about what started it is irrelevant or an excuse for Kolstad's or Nelson's actions you need to get ahold of yourself.
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Guess I have a hard time finding any true justification for running up and attacking someone from behind regardless of whatever drunken BS took place in the bar.
 



minibeaver said:
I am pretty close with my friends, and I would have a very hard time saying with any confidence what they would or would not do in that situation, especially when they were drunk.

For clarification, none of my friends have criminal records of assualt, or history of being violent.
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Psychology is full of studies on human behavior that would convince you that most people would shoot a Jew without hesitation if given an order from an authority figure. Additionally, people will kill another human being when told to even though they have never met and never bothered one another. We call that soldiering. Then, of course, get a little drunk and tired and neurochemicals that calm are wiped away and replaced by epinephrine when provoked. This then overrides executive function which is already diminished by fatigue and booze. Add in the fact that autonomic fight response happened before conscious thought over rode the fight response. The sub conscious response was what happened. The fact that Nelson pulled away after getting past the automatic response shows that he cared not to continue and did not intend to harm Kolstad. I think he showed incredible restraint after being hit from behind. Of course, it helped that he was being restrained a little by calmer bystanders.

The fact that Kolstad became knocked unconscious and had serious injuries is incidental. The central story is about how much aggression occurred and how proportional it was to each participant. Kolstad was lucky Nelson didn't strike his head and be on the receiving end of this public assault.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Guess I have a hard time finding any true justification for running up and attacking someone from behind regardless of whatever drunken BS took place in the bar.
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You have no idea what happened in the bar but you're surprised by today's video. Possible that something similar happened inside. We don't know either way. Still think that it's relevant, you don't.

You've now made Nelson the victim because of that 8 second video. I didn't know before and don't know now what happened, but not going to pretend that it started when Kolstad came out of that bar.
 

Spoofin said:
And...
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For a guy who doesn't want this topic discussed you sure do have a lot of posts in these threads. You were one of the first villagers to grab his torch & pitchfork before you even knew all the details of the fight or saw the video. You've come off as arrogant & insulting the entire time, calling names & casting aspersions on several other posters just because they didn't agree with your rush-to-judgement, self righteous BS. Now that the video has been released & Kolstad doesn't loo as saintly as you'd hoped, now you want the topic closed/moved. You're such a twat.
 

Spoofin said:
Fair enough. I agree. However, we all knew he was pushed first. That wasn't new news. This video does make Kolstad appear to be more aggressive than reported, but the point, in my mind and legally I think, has always been was PN defending himself? Searching out the guy who punched you and kicking him in the head when he is down is hardly defending yourself.

What Kolstad did was bad, but PN was hardly justified in his response. Not you, but others on the board here seem to think he was. Two wrongs....
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No, we knew he was sucker punched from behind by a larger man, some people just decided to frame at as having been pushed because it made Nelson less sympathetic.
 




Iceland12 said:
You have no idea what happened in the bar but you're surprised by today's video. Possible that something similar happened inside. We don't know either way. Still think that it's relevant, you don't.

You've now made Nelson the victim because of that 8 second video. I didn't know before and don't know now what happened, but not going to pretend that it started when Kolstad came out of that bar.
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Nelson isn't the victim but he also isn't the monster that some have tried to make him out to be. He was hit hard enough from behind to be knocked to the ground and in a drunken rage got up and went after his attacker. What he did is totally inexcusable but it is also very clear from the video that he was not unprovoked.

As to the part in bold, Nelson was standing talking to other people when Kolstad comes up and hits him hard enough from behind to knock him to the ground. I don't give a crap who started it in the bar or what was said the physical assault portion of this could have been avoided if Kolstad doesn't hit Nelson. As I said before Nelson deserves to and will pay for what he did, but after seeing this video I put far more of the blame for what happened that night on Kolstad's actions. I hate all the stupid macho BS that takes place in situations like this where guys get drunk and want to fight....just stupid and pointless and totally avoidable.
 

While the video made me think less of Kolstad it doesn't make me think any better of Nelson. Kicking somebody in the head while he is lying on the ground is beyond pathetic.
 

All these media reports made Kolstad out to be a victim; now they can eat crow. PN should get all charges dropped so he can continue on with his life.

Why was Kolstad, with a child at home and another one on the way, out getting in bar fights and throwing sucker punches? All the idiots who were crucifying PN on the boards should eat some crow too.
 

Iceland12 said:
Thanks, forgot that part. If I remember Nelson went after Kolstad inside the bar first because of that wrong impression. Don't remember if it was just verbally or if Nelson confronted him physically or not.
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100% not physical. Also doesn't sound like Kolstad did anything to defuse that situation. I'm not going to look it up, but Kolstad's friend told the police something to the effect of Kolstad "Easily became offended", then got into it with Nelson both inside & then outside, before Nelson decided to de-escalate it & walk away. Two big bucks locking horns.
 



Dean S said:
Psychology is full of studies on human behavior that would convince you that most people would shoot a Jew without hesitation if given an order from an authority figure. Additionally, people will kill another human being when told to even though they have never met and never bothered one another. We call that soldiering. Then, of course, get a little drunk and tired and neurochemicals that calm are wiped away and replaced by epinephrine when provoked. This then overrides executive function which is already diminished by fatigue and booze. Add in the fact that autonomic fight response happened before conscious thought over rode the fight response. The sub conscious response was what happened. The fact that Nelson pulled away after getting past the automatic response shows that he cared not to continue and did not intend to harm Kolstad. I think he showed incredible restraint after being hit from behind. Of course, it helped that he was being restrained a little by calmer bystanders.

The fact that Kolstad became knocked unconscious and had serious injuries is incidental. The central story is about how much aggression occurred and how proportional it was to each participant. Kolstad was lucky Nelson didn't strike his head and be on the receiving end of this public assault.
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Social pressure, social conformity is a strong driver.

If I learned anything during my four years of studying general psychology, is that we as humans have much less control over our decisions than we think we do, especially when it comes to the first few seconds after a stressful situation.
 

CP Gopher said:
You are guessing wrong.
Fighting back against a guy still standing and concious. Yes.
Kicking a guy in the head out cold on the ground. No.
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not what happened at all. as was said above, this was a heat of the moment reaction where he likely didn't know kolstad was out cold. have you ever been in a physical confrontation before? a person isn't exactly in the most rational or cautious state of mind - exactly how we're designed. fight or flight.
 


minibeaver said:
Social pressure, social conformity is a strong driver.

If I learned anything during my four years of studying general psychology, is that we as humans have much less control over our decisions than we think we do, especially when it comes to the first few seconds after a stressful situation.
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I would defer to your broader knowledge. Wouldn't it go down like this. The body receives a blow and the ear is sending a massive signal that the body is upset. The interneurons send an emergency signal down to the adrenal gland to prepare for emergency action. The adrenal glands respond with a flood of epinephrine to flood the system with glucose from the liver, jump the heart rate, expand the airways, and constrict all blood vessels incase of injury. The rush of the autonomic nervous system kicks into high gear and is already calculating out motor response in how to take down the attacker. The motor neurons are rehearsing various scenarios and as the eyes sweep across Kolstad, the autonomic nervous system calculates that a kick to the head is the best course of action. Nelson is still not consciously thinking about poor, poor Kolstad on the ground, which is about 0.3 seconds away from coming into focus. The kick is away, the attempt at moral reasoning is coming into focus, the blow lands and suddenly regret appears in the mind as the confusion between the automatic system comes into conflict with all the lessons of Sunday school and mom and dad telling Phil to not get into fights over frivolous matters. So, he withdraws from the immediate vicinity and is wrestling to regain control after the flood of bodily response to the attack. He looks into the face of his friend who is pleading with him to not do anything else. Nelson looks over at the fallen Kolstad and a lifetime of fear now overwhelms him.

And yet, the law of the land states that he should be a good boy and retreat, ignoring all science on the subject of a dual track mind and how primitive survival mechanisms can make clear headed reasonable thinking a blackout moment. No, beer didn't do this to Phil Nelson. Millions of years of survival school and selective trait acquisition successfully led him to do what our ancestral genetic code told him to do. Kick first, ask questions later.

All in all, we will construct a legal theory of his guilt that ignores any scientific explanation of what happened in those brief seconds and we will tell ourselves that because Kolstad received terrible injuries to his mind that Phil Nelson should be held in prison to waste away even though we all know that Phil has already learned the terrible lesson not to hang out at bars late at night with your girl friend and that more calm social settings may be more suitable for a long and happy life.

I guarantee to everyone that Phil Nelson is not a social threat to humanity. Not then. Not now. Simply because we hire idiot legislators, drug addled Governors, and ego maniacal lawyers to prosecute for the perceived harms in our lives, doesn't make all of this okay to waste all these lives for some emotional pabulum. What Nelson and Kolstad need is some reconciliation and responsibility taken by both sides. Phil may have to own up to some economic damages for years to come. Kolstad needs to work on rehabilitation and to also stay away from the bar scene.

The bottom line suggests there is no justice that can possibly restore both men to being whole again. Kolstad may battle the injury for a lifetime. Nelson will have his superlative reputation taken away as so many have adopted him as an evil monster totally out of control. What good do these ideas of justice have for any of us? Drop the stones from your hands folks. Lend a helping hand to these people. They need our support.
 

Couple of things are interesting to me, especially the number of pages of posts and threads on this topic. I've read several posts on this thead from people who have softened on their opinion of Phil and his actions. Just the opposite happened in the Ray Rice situation where public opinion really took a bad turn when the the actual video of him hitting Janay was released.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
For a guy who doesn't want this topic discussed you sure do have a lot of posts in these threads. You were one of the first villagers to grab his torch & pitchfork before you even knew all the details of the fight or saw the video. You've come off as arrogant & insulting the entire time, calling names & casting aspersions on several other posters just because they didn't agree with your rush-to-judgement, self righteous BS. Now that the video has been released & Kolstad doesn't loo as saintly as you'd hoped, now you want the topic closed/moved. You're such a twat.
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That's what I like about you CRG - you never preach your viewpoint or put words in others' mouth. HA. Read a little closer - you have done a bang-up job of twisting many things I said months ago and today in one single post to make some sort of point. Hell, I might even buy the garbage you spew if I didn't know your tactics & agenda so well.

I especially like when YOU tell someone they come off as arrogant or to be more respectful. That is rich. A pot & kettle come to mind. I also love your ability to repeatedly call out folks for "name calling" in the same posts where you name call. You, my friend, are a complete tool.

My point from day 1 was that there was no justification for what PN did. I still don't see one. If you think there is then we will just disagree. Contrary to what you say, I don't really care if others disagree with me. Further, if that viewpoint puts a torch and pitchfork in my hand then so be it.
 

MNVCGUY said:
What [Nelson] did is totally inexcusable but it is also very clear from the video that he was not unprovoked.ble.
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If Nelson's behavior is inexcusable, then it doesn't matter whether he was provoked. Provocation is an excuse.

That's where this ends for me. Nelson did something inexcusable and regardless of Kolstad's prior behavior, it remains inexcusable to kick a man in the head when he's on the ground.
 

Seeing the heated disparity here, I'd have to think both the prosecutor and the defense would consider some sort of plea bargain. Neither person is blameless. Both have paid a huge price.
 

Spoofin said:
That's what I like about you CRG - you never preach your viewpoint or put words in others' mouth. HA. Read a little closer - you have done a bang-up job of twisting many things I said months ago and today in one single post to make some sort of point. Hell, I might even buy the garbage you spew if I didn't know your tactics & agenda so well.

I especially like when YOU tell someone they come off as arrogant or to be more respectful. That is rich. A pot & kettle come to mind. I also love your ability to repeatedly call out folks for "name calling" in the same posts where you name call. You, my friend, are a complete tool.

My point from day 1 was that there was no justification for what PN did. I still don't see one. If you think there is then we will just disagree. Contrary to what you say, I don't really care if others disagree with me. Further, if that viewpoint puts a torch and pitchfork in my hand then so be it.
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For a guy who dishes it out, you sure don't take it very well. :)

My "agenda" & "tactics"? Oh my, you are so dramatic. What I said from the beginning was that it took two to tango & that Nelson's lawyers will make a compelling case that Nelson was attacked from behind by the larger man, got floored, got back to his feet & institutionally charged. That he wasn't thinking straight because of blow to the head he suffered & didn't realize Kolstad was already injured. Turns out I was absolutely right.
 

I don't see how Nelson hasn't been released from jail yet and charges dismissed.
 

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