Daquein McNeil has been arrested for domestic assault

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So:

1. Do I treat an athlete's behavior different than the rest of the student body?
2. Is losing an scholarship better or worse than losing tuition money that a person has had to work a summer job in order to afford to go to school?
3. Does coming from a poor/unstable background allow me to be treated differently than coming from a two parent stable background?
4. Should coaches only recruit kids from outstanding homes becasue the chances of messing up maybe less?

Hard questions without easy answers.


oleboy41 said:
Never said they were bound that's why I offered my opinion on what they should do, not what they're legally bound to do. But I stand by my opinion. Schools make millions off of these kids and throw them out like leftovers when something goes wrong. Obviously there's personal accountability involved and criminal behavior kind of trumps everything but there's something that doesn't sit right with me about how these kids get thrown away so easily. There's the aspect of having to fit within a team culture and structure as well as a university one, and I get that there are requirements placed on those that are on scholarship and those that publicly represent the school. That said, we recruit a kid like McNeal from a crappy background with almost no stability for years (went to multiple prep schools and both parents have passed). We tell him that this is his 'family' and his new support system, and then when he screws up (royally if the allegations are true), its 'don't let the door hit you'. I know its not realistic to keep a kid on scholarship when he's no longer on the team due to criminal behavior nor is it realistic to expect a coach to hold a spot for a player for a year under criminal investigation, but it still doesn't sit well with me the ease at which schools just discard a kid, especially those that aren't convicted of crimes or only plead to minor crimes
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oleboy41 said:
Never said they were bound that's why I offered my opinion on what they should do, not what they're legally bound to do. But I stand by my opinion. Schools make millions off of these kids and throw them out like leftovers when something goes wrong. Obviously there's personal accountability involved and criminal behavior kind of trumps everything but there's something that doesn't sit right with me about how these kids get thrown away so easily. There's the aspect of having to fit within a team culture and structure as well as a university one, and I get that there are requirements placed on those that are on scholarship and those that publicly represent the school. That said, we recruit a kid like McNeal from a crappy background with almost no stability for years (went to multiple prep schools and both parents have passed). We tell him that this is his 'family' and his new support system, and then when he screws up (royally if the allegations are true), its 'don't let the door hit you'. I know its not realistic to keep a kid on scholarship when he's no longer on the team due to criminal behavior nor is it realistic to expect a coach to hold a spot for a player for a year under criminal investigation, but it still doesn't sit well with me the ease at which schools just discard a kid, especially those that aren't convicted of crimes or only plead to minor crimes
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You bring up some excellent talking points.

I agree that they shouldn't pull his scholarship now. It's too soon and there are too many unanswered questions.

The information the U is looking for is if he punched her, and if it was self defense. The law is interested in much more. The U will likely get the info they want way before the law gets their answers since it's extremely rare that his defense at this point will be total denial. The U is not playing judge. They're not convicting him, but they are well within their right to make a decision to preserve the public image of the university.

Just because they pull a scholarship doesn't mean Richard has to cut off contact. If Richard promised to be like a family to McNeil, then he can keep that promise to him and support him through the trial, but it would be irresponsible to keep him on scholarship. If Richard really see's McNeil as part of the family and he really is on his own, I'm sure that's how he will respond. But the fans and university did not make that commitment.
 

agreed

forestlaker said:
So:

1. Do I treat an athlete's behavior different than the rest of the student body?
- I think we do. When a normal student gets in trouble with the law they don't worry about being booted from school normally, at least I never saw that

2. Is losing an scholarship better or worse than losing tuition money that a person has had to work a summer job in order to afford to go to school?
- I'm assuming you mean for a kid that gets kicked out of school and I don't know how that would work. Does the school say you can't come back after this semester? Cut a refund check? Keep the money? Also kids on scholarship work just as hard and probably harder than most kids that pay for school. First off the majority of students aren't paying their full tuition anyway. Its either parents or a combination of work/grants/loans/scholarships. Very few are working to pay their full tuition. Also athletes have about as much of a time commitment to their sport as a full time job

3. Does coming from a poor/unstable background allow me to be treated differently than coming from a two parent stable background?
- Depends on what you mean. I have a large group of extended family/friends and a ton of nieces and nephews. I have high expectations of all of them but I also know the ones from single parent families have different issues and challenges than the ones that have grown up in stable homes. They're all expected to behave properly but to pretend as if those challenges aren't real is dumb and harmful. You can't take kids with A level training and F level training and throw them in a mix and say 'I have the exact same expectations of all of you with no leeway' and not expect the kids that came from crap to ever struggle.

4. Should coaches only recruit kids from outstanding homes becasue the chances of messing up maybe less?
- See K, Coach. He's made a living off of only recruiting kids from outwardly stable backgrounds. K doesn't recruit inner city kids from single parent homes with a tough outer shell. He doesn't have to deal with those issues or be a surrogate father figure or be the first stable person in a kids life.

Hard questions without easy answers.
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This is just too bad. He was really looking to be one of the key players this year. I hope that somehow this isn't true, but if it is, there is no place on our team for him.
 

M-I-N-N-E-S-O-T-A said:
This is just too bad. He was really looking to be one of the key players this year. I hope that somehow this isn't true, but if it is, there is no place on our team for him.
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Agree wholeheartedly. I don't want to make any irresponsibly rash judgments based on just the police report. However, if he actually did what it is said he did, we can't kick him out fast enough for me. It is one thing for kids to get in trouble with the law doing something like marijuana, underage drinking, or even a mutual drunken bar fight, but if he did something this depraved, I don't want him in our colors.
 


afurry91 said:
You bring up some excellent talking points. I agree that they shouldn't pull his scholarship now. It's too soon and there are too many unanswered questions. The information the U is looking for is if he punched her, and if it was self defense. The law is interested in much more. The U will likely get the info they want way before the law gets their answers since it's extremely rare that his defense at this point will be total denial. The U is not playing judge. They're not convicting him, but they are well within their right to make a decision to preserve the public image of the university. Just because they pull a scholarship doesn't mean Richard has to cut off contact. If Richard promised to be like a family to McNeil, then he can keep that promise to him and support him through the trial, but it would be irresponsible to keep him on scholarship. If Richard really see's McNeil as part of the family and he really is on his own, I'm sure that's how he will respond. But the fans and university did not make that commitment.
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I liked a lot of what Oleboy said and I think you added on very nicely. The U has an image to uphold and is an academic institution, not just a basketball team. It really really sucks if they are unable to be there for him.

It's tough. On one hand you feel awful for the victim if it's true. Just horrible. On the other hand you have cases like Dante Cunningham (former T'Wolf) where the claim was baseless and wrecked his career.

So often when kids shoot up movie theaters or schools or whatever we talk about their mental health. I think it is an acceptable conversation to have here as well. McNeil has obviously seen a lot in his short life. If it is reasonable there may be mental health issues, I hope at the very least, Pitino or the team can get him any help he needs there while the investigation plays out.

Will be very curious how this plays out. A very sad situation for all involved regardless of how it ends. Hopefully whatever does happen we reach for every opportunity to truly help people as much as possible, victim and offender.
 

Dirk Diggler said:
No, the difference between domestic assault and regular assault it that you've had a sexual relationship with the victim.
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Domestic assault simply refers to an assault (battery technically) in the home or between family.
 

golfing18now said:
Another reminder of how day to day the scholarship situation seems to be in college basketball. We have no idea who will suit up for the Gophers next year. Whether it be academic related, a family situation, English speaking, or just being an idiot -- you never know for sure.
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Yep. NEVER stop recruiting.
 




Tater said:
Domestic assault simply refers to an assault (battery technically) in the home or between family.
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It actually includes all of the above. MN includes people engaged in a significant sexual/romantic relationship in their domestic assault statute.

So, it applies to situations where the victim does not live with the perp and is not a family member.
 

oleboy41 said:
Never said they were bound that's why I offered my opinion on what they should do, not what they're legally bound to do. But I stand by my opinion. Schools make millions off of these kids and throw them out like leftovers when something goes wrong. Obviously there's personal accountability involved and criminal behavior kind of trumps everything but there's something that doesn't sit right with me about how these kids get thrown away so easily. There's the aspect of having to fit within a team culture and structure as well as a university one, and I get that there are requirements placed on those that are on scholarship and those that publicly represent the school. That said, we recruit a kid like McNeal from a crappy background with almost no stability for years (went to multiple prep schools and both parents have passed). We tell him that this is his 'family' and his new support system, and then when he screws up (royally if the allegations are true), its 'don't let the door hit you'. I know its not realistic to keep a kid on scholarship when he's no longer on the team due to criminal behavior nor is it realistic to expect a coach to hold a spot for a player for a year under criminal investigation, but it still doesn't sit well with me the ease at which schools just discard a kid, especially those that aren't convicted of crimes or only plead to minor crimes
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I agree with what you've said.

A good coach will show tough love and compassion.

If the allegations are true, he needs to be dismissed from the team. Hopefully, at that point, Pitino will be able to find him a place to land (probably still on a basketball scholarship).

Hopefully it is a similar situaion to Lamonte Edwards. He was kicked off the football team for stealing from a teammate, but Kill also helped him get into SIU. There haven't been any other flare ups (that I'm aware).
 


khoffman43 said:
I always give the benefit of the doubt in these situations because they could be baseless charges. However, the fact that he was already arrested does not bode well for him for his career with the Gophers.

Hopefully whatever happened isn't serious and the affected party is alright, which is more important than whatever happens to him in a basketball sense.
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Dante Cuningham was arrested twice in the space of a week. The police later determined not only did she make it all up, she most likely set him up. So an arrest doesn't mean guilt.
 



SelectionSunday said:
I just saw the allegations. Ugly stuff. Thoughts and prayers first & foremost to the young woman.
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Correct. Best wishes to the victim. Hopefully she can overcome this horrifying event. I'll let the police case play out (as we all should), but sure looks like we've rightly seen the last of this guy.
 

Disturbing allegations to be sure. I only hope enough time is taken to make the correct decision (whatever that decision may be) and there is no rush to convict/acquit McNeil in the court of public opinion.
 

EG#9 said:
Disturbing allegations to be sure. I only hope enough time is taken to make the correct decision (whatever that decision may be) and there is no rush to convict/acquit McNeil in the court of public opinion.
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Too late.
 

Well said

afurry91 said:
You bring up some excellent talking points.

I agree that they shouldn't pull his scholarship now. It's too soon and there are too many unanswered questions.

The information the U is looking for is if he punched her, and if it was self defense. The law is interested in much more. The U will likely get the info they want way before the law gets their answers since it's extremely rare that his defense at this point will be total denial. The U is not playing judge. They're not convicting him, but they are well within their right to make a decision to preserve the public image of the university.

Just because they pull a scholarship doesn't mean Richard has to cut off contact. If Richard promised to be like a family to McNeil, then he can keep that promise to him and support him through the trial, but it would be irresponsible to keep him on scholarship. If Richard really see's McNeil as part of the family and he really is on his own, I'm sure that's how he will respond. But the fans and university did not make that commitment.
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And I would be very disappointed in Pitino if he didn't support McNeil guilty or innocent. Richard is his family at this point in McNeil's life. Thinking Pitino will and hoping he does but it looks pretty doubtful McNeil remains a Gopher. For McNeil to stay a Gopher it is going to require a scenario we have not heard yet. Sad. All involved need our prayers.
 

Wow totally sad. Feel terrible for the victim.
 

XMan said:
Wow totally sad. Feel terrible for the victim.
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Agreed, we can only hope she is ok and can move ahead in life.

This event also speaks to the fact that it doesn't matter if it's Pitino, Haskins, Tubby or whomever. Coaches can only teach proper values so much and then accountability lies on the shoulders of these young men. They are not full time babysitters.

Now, as for the fact that McNeil is only 20 and his girlfriend is 28. Well, that's some difference in age and maturity level. Maybe I'm out of bounds here but why is a 28 year old female (assuming she has been in the workforce and out of college for 6 years) after a 20 year old sophomore in college?

Yeah, yeah, I know it can be a million reasons and none of my business but I find it strange...

Let's hope our Gophers can move forward and progress in light of this situation. Go Gophers!
 

Blitz, you are correct. It is not our business.
 

Just saw the allegations. Wow, how has the U not already released a press release that he is kicked off the team?
 


MadtownGopher said:
Just saw the allegations. Wow, how has the U not already released a press release that he is kicked off the team?
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Think you answered your own question, although if it turns out to be true I'm sure he will be kicked off the team immediately. Until they know for sure what happened, an indefinite suspension is perfectly appropriate.
 

There are two sides to every story. We haven't heard McNeil's.

Obviously if even part of this is true he needs to be gone as soon as that is verified.
 

Charged with two felony counts per Strib.

The charges are third degree assault (substantial body harm), which is punishable by five years in prison and/or a $3,000-$10,000 fine; and domestic assault by strangulation, punishable with up to three years in prison and/or a $5,000 fine.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/283988521.html

Instead of playing at Madison Square Garden, sitting in jail.
 

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This sounds absolutely horrible.
 



I appreciate Oleboy's views on this and up to a point, I agree with them. Not only universities, but also the media, advertisers, cities, other businesses, etc. are making tons of money off these athletes. However, nobody is forcing them to play sports. Hell, it's something probably 99% of us would jump at if we had the talents. For a chosen few, it's an avenue to great wealth. For most of the rest. it's a chance at a free education that can transform some lives. In other words, it's a great opportunity. Ya, they have to work for it, but it's up to them not to screw it up. If even a portion of this is true, I have no sympathy for McNeil and don't feel Pitino or the U has any responsibility at all for him. I don't care about his background or other issues. Can't believe somebody in his position would let it get to that what with all the recent abuse news and with all the warnings and lectures these guys must get.

Geez, I just read the post about what Michael Rand had. Sickening, the poor lady. Another thought--can't believe something like this this comes totally out of the blue.
 

Horrible situation.

Feel awful for the victim.
Need to look at how McNeil was raised in Baltimore is a messed up situation himself.

Some of these behaviors are learned from a young age in bad social-economic areas.
 

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