STrib: Gophers offense rushes to diversify its attack

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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per the STrib:

Matt Limegrover regrets his timing in implementing the play-action pass in Saturday’s 28-24 loss to Illinois.

An earlier adjustment might have been enough to finish the Gophers’ second-half comeback.

“I wish I would have gotten to it a little sooner,” Limegrover, the Gophers assistant head coach and offensive coordinator, said on Tuesday’s Big Ten coaches’ teleconference. “Once we got the play-action going, then that did free some things up and David [Cobb] was able to pop a couple runs in the second half.”

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/280734722.html

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
per the STrib:

Matt Limegrover regrets his timing in implementing the play-action pass in Saturday’s 28-24 loss to Illinois.

An earlier adjustment might have been enough to finish the Gophers’ second-half comeback.

“I wish I would have gotten to it a little sooner,” Limegrover, the Gophers assistant head coach and offensive coordinator, said on Tuesday’s Big Ten coaches’ teleconference. “Once we got the play-action going, then that did free some things up and David [Cobb] was able to pop a couple runs in the second half.”

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/280734722.html

Go Gophers!!
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I don't try to pretend for one second that I know more about the game then the coaches but two games in a row now they have waited until the second half to start taking shots of any kind down the field when the other team was stacking the box and just daring them to throw it into single coverage.

Based on the way our offense is structured and the fact that teams are going to gear up to stop the run each week because they don't fear our passing game play action would seem like a key part of the gameplan from the opening snap.
 

Can we stop publicly apologizing and regretting things after we **** the bed?

If defensive players want to apologize after the Purdue game, apologize by not giving up 14 points in the first quarter to Illinois.

If Limegrover regrets his game planning, then stop doing the same game plan week after week and do something that works agains Iowa.

These apologies and regrets showing up in the media are getting old really fast. Don't apologize to us or tell us how much you regret it. We don't need any apologies.
 

I give Limegrover points for admitting that he might have made a mistake. At least this coaching staff is willing to accept responsibility when things don't go well.
 

afurry91 said:
Can we stop publicly apologizing and regretting things after we **** the bed?

If defensive players want to apologize after the Purdue game, apologize by not giving up 14 points in the first quarter to Illinois.

If Limegrover regrets his game planning, then stop doing the same game plan week after week and do something that works agains Iowa.

These apologies and regrets showing up in the media are getting old really fast. Don't apologize to us or tell us how much you regret it. We don't need any apologies.
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+1

I said in another thread, the best way to convey your apology would be to not continue your losing streak to Iowa and Wisconsin.

This is not to say that I don't appreciate taking ownership. Part of taking ownership is acknowledging the mistakes (which they have now done), the other part is taking that acknowledgment and doing something about it (which they have 2 weeks to do before Iowa)
 



afurry91 said:
Can we stop publicly apologizing and regretting things after we **** the bed?

If defensive players want to apologize after the Purdue game, apologize by not giving up 14 points in the first quarter to Illinois.

If Limegrover regrets his game planning, then stop doing the same game plan week after week and do something that works agains Iowa.

These apologies and regrets showing up in the media are getting old really fast. Don't apologize to us or tell us how much you regret it. We don't need any apologies.
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Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the nature of an apology, which seems from the coaches and players to be recognition of mistakes and commitment to correct them. Please consider this option.
 

killme said:
Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the nature of an apology, which seems from the coaches and players to be recognition of mistakes and commitment to correct them. Please consider this option.
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:clap:
 

killme said:
Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the nature of an apology, which seems from the coaches and players to be recognition of mistakes and commitment to correct them. Please consider this option.
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Well so far the defense's apology to Coach Kill for not being ready to play at first whistle against Purdue has turned out to be an empty apology. I wonder if those same players apologized again last Saturday?

Let's wait and see what kind of results Limegrover's "regret" yields. He's got an extra week.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
I give Limegrover points for admitting that he might have made a mistake. At least this coaching staff is willing to accept responsibility when things don't go well.
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I go both ways on this one. While it is commendable to be willing to admit when you make a mistake, a big part of being a successful coach at this level is being able to prepare your team to succeed on game day. We have seen the past few games where they look totally unprepared early in the game and don't really start to click until after half time. Slow starts have become a bit of a trend with this team the past few seasons and when you have an offense that is not built to come from behind, digging a hole early is not a good thing.
 

killme said:
Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the nature of an apology, which seems from the coaches and players to be recognition of mistakes and commitment to correct them. Please consider this option.
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Some would be more impressed with an apology prior to the mistake. That takes balls.
 


afurry91 said:
Can we stop publicly apologizing and regretting things after we **** the bed?

If defensive players want to apologize after the Purdue game, apologize by not giving up 14 points in the first quarter to Illinois.

If Limegrover regrets his game planning, then stop doing the same game plan week after week and do something that works agains Iowa.

These apologies and regrets showing up in the media are getting old really fast. Don't apologize to us or tell us how much you regret it. We don't need any apologies.
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And if they didn't say anything, you would complain that they weren't holding themselves accountable. These guys can never win with "fans" like you.
 



dpodoll68 said:
And if they didn't say anything, you would complain that they weren't holding themselves accountable. These guys can never win with "fans" like you.
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Whatever you want to make up, friend. I've never called for an apology or claimed that the coaching staff wasn't keeping players or themselves accountable. In fact, I rarely ever comment in the threads dedicated to questioning Limegrover or Kill's fit in Minnesota. I simply don't care one way or the other. I can't even remember the last time I made an uncalled for remark about the offense. Probably during or shortly after the TCU game around the time where we committed our 4th turnover, which is actually quite funny because you all think I hate Leidner and Limegrover and constantly bash them.

But whatever fits your narrative as you scour through my post history to try and prove me wrong like GW. Feel free to spew what you please. We should all strive to be the fan you are.

It's really a bummer we don't get along because you and I have the same dry personality.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I give Limegrover points for admitting that he might have made a mistake. At least this coaching staff is willing to accept responsibility when things don't go well.
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I wonder how much of the conservatism and lack of quick adjustment on offense is due to Limegrover or Kill. Last year when Kill was out, Claeys said that he mostly deferred to the offensive coordinator for play calling and the Gophers took chances with unexpected plays during that stretch more than have this year. I don't know, maybe they trust this year's offense less if it has to deviate very much from the usual script or they have a little too much confidence in Cobb this year.
 

Limegrover will be Kills downfall if Jerry doesn't move the program forward. It's like co-signing for a family member on a loan. Sometimes the theory blood is thicker than water can come back and haunt you. I will stand my ground and say he is the worst OC in my association with Gopher football.
Maybe only the OC under Guety would compare. Even Bob Debese under Jim Wacker had more of an imagination than Limegrover. Chip Lohmiller, head coach at Pequot Lakes HS could prepare a game plan to stop the Gophers.
 

That's nice. The same 'ol same 'ol scheme hasn't moved the damn ball for going over two seasons now. Not against good teams, and not against bad teams either. Any blowouts the team has had (they have been rare) have come at the hands of defensive or special teams scores. Nice, but not the way a good football team should win games against bad opponents. Bad teams shouldn't even be in those games in the 4th quarter.

So now we have a coach admitting that he waited too long to try something different. (Sounds similar to the mea culpa after the Iowa and Michigan disasters last year...) Oh really? The only times this team has really been able to consistently move the football over the past few seasons was when the gameplan wasn't middle-run, middle-run, pass on 3rd-and-long (and the inevitable punt). Instead, the team moved the ball - and the whole team was excited about it - when the gameplan kept the defense confused and guessing. Many of us aren't surprised when the offense moves the ball when Limegrover tries to outscheme the opponent as opposed to trying (and usually failing) to shove it down their throat. Yet, exasperatingly, the same cannot be said for the team's O playcaller. If it fails, try and try the same again.

And here is where Limegrover fails miserably, in my opinion. The evidence is right in front of his face. The vanilla offense gets stuffed like a dead turkey, every game. An offense with a mix of playcalling gives, at least, a chance at moving the ball, a fair chance at putting up points via the offense. And it gets the whole team - offense and defense - excited to play the game. So why doesn't EVERY game show some GD innovation? Why can't the offense have FUN out there? Why, instead, do we just beat the truck (Cobb, Kirkwood, Williams) against the brick wall? Why does the offense have to consist of only simple running plays and simple passing plays? This isn't 7th grade football. But the Gophers' offense resembles such.

But hey, the coach always knows more than everybody else, as some of you like to parrot. Limegrover's criticizers are never right. But here he is admitting his own struggles yet again. And most of the people on this board will totally forget about all of this the next time the D or special teams saves Limegrover's ultra-conservative stagnant offense in yet another squeaker against a non-conference bottom feeder. GFD anyway.

/End rant.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Limegrover will be Kills downfall if Jerry doesn't move the program forward. It's like co-signing for a family member on a loan. Sometimes the theory blood is thicker than water can come back and haunt you. I will stand my ground and say he is the worst OC in my association with Gopher football.
Maybe only the OC under Guety would compare. Even Bob Debese under Jim Wacker had more of an imagination than Limegrover. Chip Lohmiller, head coach at Pequot Lakes HS could prepare a game plan to stop the Gophers.
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No he won't. Kill wanted to build a defense first. Limegrover is trying to be good on offense with a bunch of MN kids and not even the top MN kids. Talent is not good enough on offense and that is why they play the style you see every week. We need playmakers.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
No he won't. Kill wanted to build a defense first. Limegrover is trying to be good on offense with a bunch of MN kids and not even the top MN kids. Talent is not good enough on offense and that is why they play the style you see every week. We need playmakers.
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And the playmakers we were supposed to get like Nelson, Harbison, and McDonald turned out to be duds.

Fortunately, we are stashing away some play makers at receiver and Jeff Jones is coming to save the day as well. Need those guys as well as Demry Croft to pan out.
 

afurry91 said:
And the playmakers we were supposed to get like Nelson, Harbison, and McDonald turned out to be duds.

Fortunately, we are stashing away some play makers at receiver and Jeff Jones is coming to save the day as well. Need those guys as well as Demry Croft to pan out.
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I wouldn't call Nelson a "dud". I mean, he obvious had some mental issues, but his talent was pretty clear. That the offense is stagnant no matter who is at QB, each with various abilities and varied talents (Gray, Nelson, Shortell, Leidner, Streveler) suggests either that the problem is greater at WR, or the problem is greater with the playcalling.

This is not a reply to you, more a global thought: Are we to really believe that Streveler is such a bad passer that he's only worth 7 pass attempts against a patsy opponent? For real now. You don't get to be a backup QB at any D-1 school - much less in a Power 5 conference - without some ability to play that position, command an offense, and throw a football. The players are better than the ultra-conservative playcalling suggests them to be. Those patsy schools we played in OoC pre-season were moving the ball pretty well, that with lower-recruited players, and against a much better defense. They didn't move the ball by being scared to let their lowly QBs throw the damn ball.

Finally, note that I think lack of high-end talent at the WR positions does play a significant role in this. However, it's a catch-22. If the offense shows that it never wants to pass the ball, then you're not going to be able to recruit premier QBs, and you're not going to be able to recruit premier WRs. And without those premier players, the team will still refuse to pass the ball, and the cycle will be virtually unbreakable.
 

cncmin said:
I wouldn't call Nelson a "dud". I mean, he obvious had some mental issues, but his talent was pretty clear. That the offense is stagnant no matter who is at QB, each with various abilities and varied talents (Gray, Nelson, Shortell, Leidner, Streveler) suggests either that the problem is greater at WR, or the problem is greater with the playcalling.

This is not a replay to you, more a global thought: Are we to really believe that Streveler is such a bad passer that he's only worth 7 pass attempts against a patsy opponent? For real now. You don't get to be a backup QB at any D-1 school - much less in a Power 5 conference - without some ability to play that position, command an offense, and throw a football. The players are better than the ultra-conservative playcalling suggests them to be. Those patsy schools we played in OoC pre-season were moving the ball pretty well, that with lower-recruited players, and against a much better defense.
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It would have been interesting to see what became of Nelson at Rutgers. That would have told us something. Unfortunately, he threw his career away.

I will say that if the coaching staff fails to use Jeff Jones as a receiver out of the backfield, then people have reason to question the coaching staff.
 

afurry91 said:
It would have been interesting to see what became of Nelson at Rutgers. That would have told us something. Unfortunately, he threw his career away.
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Moreso than the experiment, for the sake of two lives I wish he'd have been able to suit up for the new B1G East division patsies.
 

It would help to move up from 120th of 125 teams in passing. Can Maye, Edwards, Cobb catch the short pass? We know Williams, Jones and Fruechte can catch the long ball.
 

I just get the feeling that Limegrover (and I guess that means Coach Kill too) doesn't trust our QBs throwing the ball. That is why it is run, run, try a safe pass and punt. Leidner just doesn't look like he has enough confidence in his own ability to take his drop and throw the ball to a spot on time. It looks like he waits to see if the receiver is going to be really, really open before he throws the ball. By then it is too late, our OL has whiffed on a block and it is another sack. And the body language of some of the receivers seems like they are pretty frustrated that the QB can't get them the ball.

When we play the hogeyes and the remaining games, I think the coaching staff has to have Leidner keeping the ball on the read option. That will also help free up Cobb. But it also seems to get Leidner more into the game and maybe then he will just let the ball fly.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
No he won't. Kill wanted to build a defense first. Limegrover is trying to be good on offense with a bunch of MN kids and not even the top MN kids. Talent is not good enough on offense and that is why they play the style you see every week. We need playmakers.
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Nailed it.

No offense to Isaac Freuchte, but he should never be the top WR option on a team if the it goal is to win a power 5 conference title. We just don't have the players. A better WR doesn't lose the ball in the sun and we're up 31-21 and on cruise control midway through the fourth. Limey is trying to drive a Lamborghini with a slow, old beat up engine.
 

josh087 said:
Nailed it.

No offense to Isaac Freuchte, but he should never be the top WR option on a team if the it goal is to win a power 5 conference title. We just don't have the players. A better WR doesn't lose the ball in the sun and we're up 31-21 and on cruise control midway through the fourth. Limey is trying to drive a Lamborghini with a slow, old beat up engine.
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I don't think the plan was to "build defense first" though, I think basically our top offensive recruits all flamed out in some way the last two or three classes (I don't care where fault lies, I'm just speaking to the fact that it is what it is). I don't think anyone could possibly argue that if we had an offense currently built around a junior QB in Nelson, with McDonald, Harbison, heck, let's throw in DCT in there as well, and even Quentin Gardner from '11 that it wouldn't look drastically different than right now, where we got all these sophs running around with Fruechte. I'm not even saying it'd be all that great, I'm just saying, I'm guessing they'd at least be able to pound on weaker opponents through the air a little bit.

But this is where we are right now. I'm not gonna sit here and act like Limey's done everything right, but the tools he's been given to work with have just flat out either not been consistent, or haven't been there. He's been working with new pieces virtually every year. It's hard to build something when your starting QB changes every year. We're going through some pain with Leidner, but I think it's important to stick with him a bit and see if he grows into a consistent guy that we can at least go with him next year with the expectation he'll be better. If he flames out, it'll be more of the same, trying to start over with another new guy. Except the one benefit will be experience at receiver and hopefully Jeff Jones is "that dude", cause we'll need him to be.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
No he won't. Kill wanted to build a defense first. Limegrover is trying to be good on offense with a bunch of MN kids and not even the top MN kids. Talent is not good enough on offense and that is why they play the style you see every week. We need playmakers.
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Yep.

One of the interesting things is that we've recruited a nice set of WRs, but if we don't do something about getting more consistent at the QB position, a lot of that talent will not reach its apex in terms of production. I'm not that down on Leidner, but I don't think he's a classic read/option QB either.
 

Monty519 said:
I don't think the plan was to "build defense first" though.
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Kill has actually said that was in fact.the plan.

If we're as good as everyone thought we were heading to Illinois we shouldn't need to air it out to win against the Illini. Wisconsin didn't need to.

I'm not nearly as frustrated with the gameplans as I am with the lack of talent the staff has recruited here in 4 years.

By no means is it time from the staff to go, but the talent needs to improve for us to win more, plain and simple, especially at the most important position on the field, QB.
 

josh087 said:
Kill has actually said that was in fact.the plan.

If we're as good as everyone thought we were heading to Illinois we shouldn't need to air it out to win against the Illini. Wisconsin didn't need to.

I'm not nearly as frustrated with the gameplans as I am with the lack of talent the staff has recruited here in 4 years.

By no means is it time from the staff to go, but the talent needs to improve for us to win more, plain and simple, especially at the most important position on the field, QB.
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I think priority is defense in his program, yes. But it's not like you can't build both at the same time. The offense would be further along had the recruits panned out, that's all I'm saying. They recruited pieces that were supposed to be vital to us right now during this season and a good portion of the best ones aren't here. It's semantics, I know, but just getting to my point that I think the offensive struggles are more of a circumstance thing, than any type of plan in place that put the offense behind the defense at this juncture of his tenure.
 

What coach said that "When you throw the ball, 3 things can happen and 2 of them are bad"?
 

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