Coach Z

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Indi1006

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Does he suck? Our QBs have under his tutelage. The wildly inconsistent play is hard to explain just too many missed throws the last two years to he explained by lack of talent I saw both play in HS and Nelson and Leidner could make the throws they are missing now.
 

Alot of Leidner's missed throws today where when he was moving his feet and wasn't getting set. You have to remember he is still just a sophomore and really doesn't have very many pass attempts because we don't throw very often. Receivers losing well thrown balls in the sun don't help much either.
 

bottlebass said:
Alot of Leidner's missed throws today where when he was moving his feet and wasn't getting set. You have to remember he is still just a sophomore and really doesn't have very many pass attempts because we don't throw very often. Receivers losing well thrown balls in the sun don't help much either.
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I am not saying the premise of blaming Coach Z is correct, but we've seen a number of QB's with less experience than Leidner look better just against our Gophers. When you get to year 4 and you've had 5 different guys start at QB and none of them have looked impressive (save for a few games from Nelson last season), it's kind of hard to keep pointing to just the players.
 

EG#9 said:
I am not saying the premise of blaming Coach Z is correct, but we've seen a number of QB's with less experience than Leidner look better just against our Gophers. When you get to year 4 and you've had 5 different guys start at QB and none of them have looked impressive (save for a few games from Nelson last season), it's kind of hard to keep pointing to just the players.
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So are you blaming the guys leaving on Coach Z? Or do you think every first year QB should be a top 5 QB in our conference? Have any of the guys who have left gone on to a much better season than they had here? Hard to point the finger at Coach Z unless you are strictly talking about recruiting. But we will never get a great QB to come here with the way our offense is structured IMO. I'm sorry but with the way our offense is structured our QBs shouldn't have to play any better than the 240 yards and 1 TD he had today. His completion % was down today but at least 3-4 of those should have been caught which would have put him at 50% with some big plays in there. All we need is a QB that can hit 60% of his passes completing about 10/game, throw a TD here and there and not throw interceptions. Besides the TCU game Leidner has done that for us.
 

Look around the country and count the number of teams who are trying to solve a QB problem. Then throw in the number of QBs who have a lock on their position but are still inconsistent, ranging anywhere from tremendous to horrendous on any given day. Point is, it's obviously not that easy to get consistently productive performance at that very difficult position. In fact, after looking at the rather small percentage of QBs who perform consistently well as professionals, it makes me wonder how many people are actually capable of playing QB the way modern coaches visualize the position, at least game in and game out. Just thinking out loud.
 


maxwellsmart said:
Look around the country and count the number of teams who are trying to solve a QB problem. Then throw in the number of QBs who have a lock on their position but are still inconsistent, ranging anywhere from tremendous to horrendous on any given day. Point is, it's obviously not that easy to get consistently productive performance at that very difficult position. In fact, after looking at the rather small percentage of QBs who perform consistently well as professionals, it makes me wonder how many people are actually capable of playing QB the way modern coaches visualize the position, at least game in and game out. Just thinking out loud.
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Leidner is very close to being a very competent QB. If he can just relax, set, point and fire a hair better, he'll lead us to some big wins.
 

maxwellsmart said:
Look around the country and count the number of teams who are trying to solve a QB problem. Then throw in the number of QBs who have a lock on their position but are still inconsistent, ranging anywhere from tremendous to horrendous on any given day. Point is, it's obviously not that easy to get consistently productive performance at that very difficult position. In fact, after looking at the rather small percentage of QBs who perform consistently well as professionals, it makes me wonder how many people are actually capable of playing QB the way modern coaches visualize the position, at least game in and game out. Just thinking out loud.
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I agree. Very few programs run the veer/wishbone anymore. Can't think of any big programs that run that except Navy and Georgia Tech. Reason for that is that defenses have gotten so much quicker that you have to pass to open up the run in a run-centric offense. Read-option requires a QB to do a lot more (at least in my estimation). Used to be a QB was "fish or fowl" in that they were either a running QB or a passing QB. In the read option, you really have to be both.
 

EG#9 said:
I am not saying the premise of blaming Coach Z is correct, but we've seen a number of QB's with less experience than Leidner look better just against our Gophers. When you get to year 4 and you've had 5 different guys start at QB and none of them have looked impressive (save for a few games from Nelson last season), it's kind of hard to keep pointing to just the players.
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It's sort of difficult for Coach Z to control Leidner's emotions on the field. Only Mitch can calm himself in the pocket, set his feet and make the throw. No coach in the world can force a kid to do that under game conditions. Hopefully Coach Z reminds Mitch many times during each game to set his feet and zip it. Besides that, what else can he do? Mitch probably does it perfectly in drills and practice and scrimmages.
 

Leidner seems to think that throwing a ball away will lead to a year long suspension from the B1G.
Nelson had the same issue. Seems to be a coaching problem.
 



Yep. Figured out. Coach Z has forgotten to tell ML7 to throw completions. Fire him now! I was hoping the rubes would be watching the vikes today.
 

Lediner is a sophomore everybody. He is going to be sophomoric.
 

beavergopher said:
Leidner seems to think that throwing a ball away will lead to a year long suspension from the B1G.
Nelson had the same issue. Seems to be a coaching problem.
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So you don't think the coaches tell him to throw it out of bounds in those situations? Or did they just not say "please"?
 




bottlebass said:
Alot of Leidner's missed throws today where when he was moving his feet and wasn't getting set. You have to remember he is still just a sophomore and really doesn't have very many pass attempts because we don't throw very often. Receivers losing well thrown balls in the sun don't help much either.
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THIS.
 

Indi1006 said:
Does he suck? Our QBs have under his tutelage. The wildly inconsistent play is hard to explain just too many missed throws the last two years to he explained by lack of talent I saw both play in HS and Nelson and Leidner could make the throws they are missing now.
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Dude, you are a moron. Shut up and go away. Pretty sure they weren't facing Big Ten caliber defenses in high school. Do us all a favor stop posting on here and making yourself look stupid.
 

HavaGo4 said:
Dude, you are a moron. Shut up and go away. Pretty sure they weren't facing Big Ten caliber defenses in high school. Do us all a favor stop posting on here and making yourself look stupid.
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Hit me with some evidence from the Kill era showing that our QBs have developed as one would expect, and I'd be happy to leave Z alone. The level of play we've seen on Saturdays most of the time is damning.
 

Indi1006 said:
Hit me with some evidence from the Kill era showing that our QBs have developed as one would expect, and I'd be happy to leave Z alone. The level of play we've seen on Saturdays most of the time is damning.
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Stop saying you would be happy to leave the coaches alone. If it were true you wouldn't feel the need to come on the board after a loss start 8 different threads about how much the coaches suck and how much the players suck. It's clear to everyone on this board, except you, that you don't know what you are talking about.
 

HavaGo4 said:
Stop saying you would be happy to leave the coaches alone. If it were true you wouldn't feel the need to come on the board after a loss start 8 different threads about how much the coaches suck and how much the players suck. It's clear to everyone on this board, except you, that you don't know what you are talking about.
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Wow. Took a whopping 33 posts to become our spokesman. Settle down.
 



Indi1006 said:
Hit me with some evidence from the Kill era showing that our QBs have developed as one would expect, and I'd be happy to leave Z alone. The level of play we've seen on Saturdays most of the time is damning.
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Well a few things:
1. Leidner doesn't carry the ball, at least as much, like it's a damn loaf of bread to be stolen when he's carrying the ball. So that's been cleaned up by coaching somewhere.
2. Leidner is doing a better job throwing to the RIGHT guy. His accuracy is still an issue, but he's getting to the right guy in the progression much more often.

Things not so good:
1. Mitch still is wildly inaccurate.
2. He gets happy feet. Should hopefully go away with reps and getting the internal clock.
3. This one is hugely coaching and relates to 1, but Mitch needs to learn to set his feet on throws. You can get away with having a great arm in HS with poor mechanics. That becomes much more rare at the college level.
4. Again is hugely coaching, but some guys refuse to do this a la Favre being the poster boy but Mitch will not throw the ball away. Ever. Coaches need to tell him there's nothing wrong with tossing it OOB or at a guys feet if the play isn't there. Live to fight another down and don't hold the ball for 6 seconds.

Some good. Some bad. Has Leidner developed perfectly? No. But this is his first year going through the B10 as a starter. We don't run an offense that has the QB as the focal point like the last 2 teams we played where QBs are bound to have better numbers. If we get Leidner at hitting 60-65% of his throws, which should be possible considering the PA pass is VERY open frequently for us, completing 2-3 deep balls a game, not getting us behind the sticks by making mistakes with the ball/taking sacks, and not turning the ball over, this team will be very good. Michigan was the one game he truly and fully did that this year and we DOMINATED. He has the capability, he's just wildly inconsistent and that permeates to the team.
 


Spoofin said:
Good post upnorthkid
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ditto.

Like upnorthkid said. I think his biggest improvement this year and he's continuing to improve as the season progresses is the fact that you can actually see him working through progressions and finding the right guy. He's still a little bit slow at this sometimes (you can notice he throws the ball maybe 3-4 steps after a receiver makes their break when really a lot of those throws should come out as the receiver makes their break or 1-2 steps after they do).

As others have said. Kid needs to learn that throwing the ball away is so much better than taking a 7-10 yard sack....
 

bottlebass said:
ditto.

Like upnorthkid said. I think his biggest improvement this year and he's continuing to improve as the season progresses is the fact that you can actually see him working through progressions and finding the right guy. He's still a little bit slow at this sometimes (you can notice he throws the ball maybe 3-4 steps after a receiver makes their break when really a lot of those throws should come out as the receiver makes their break or 1-2 steps after they do).

As others have said. Kid needs to learn that throwing the ball away is so much better than taking a 7-10 yard sack....
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right there what you said is what changes a guy from average to all conference. The anticipation factor is what makes a great QB. Comes from being able to pre snap know the coverage and ID who the likely open guy is and where the window will be. Mitch's huge deal is he's not at the point of anticipation but reaction and that leads to late throws and sacks taken. Hopefuly he can take that next step. If you shorten his throws by 5 yards, accuracy should, emphasis on should, go up exponentially and sacks should go down inversely. We shall see though.
 

Indi1006 said:
Does he suck? Our QBs have under his tutelage. The wildly inconsistent play is hard to explain just too many missed throws the last two years to he explained by lack of talent I saw both play in HS and Nelson and Leidner could make the throws they are missing now.
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Wow! Didn't see this post coming from you.:rolleyes:

Don't you have any other material?
 

upnorthkid said:
right there what you said is what changes a guy from average to all conference. The anticipation factor is what makes a great QB. Comes from being able to pre snap know the coverage and ID who the likely open guy is and where the window will be. Mitch's huge deal is he's not at the point of anticipation but reaction and that leads to late throws and sacks taken. Hopefuly he can take that next step. If you shorten his throws by 5 yards, accuracy should, emphasis on should, go up exponentially and sacks should go down inversely. We shall see though.
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I saw NFL quarterbacks having some of the same issues as Leidner did yesterday, so it happens to elite level players too. Cam Newton has as much athletic ability as anyone playing QB at the position in the NFL and I saw poor mechanics and lack of anticipation from him yesterday. Not saying Leidner is at that level he is not, but even the best of the best struggle playing QB.
Goes to show no matter now much coaching a guy has, or film work these guys do, they are not robot's and you cannot program the mind to see things or repeat things the same way always. Each game presents different challenges and different levels of preperation, Quarterbacks are on the most visible stage, because they have the key's to the car and when you have the ball in your hands as much as they do, you have a large impact on the game. Hopefully we will start seeing some things that indicate what I think is happening is actually occuring, improvement on the field.
 


With the exception of Michigan every team we've played the opposing QB has been better. If Hoke had played Gardner the whole game it would be every opposing QB has been better. Like Puckett did in the World Series, Cobb is carrying this team on his back.
 

By definition, the "read option" requires an option to handing the ball off. Since he sprained his MCL (against MTSU?), Mitch hasn't looked at all comfortable tucking the ball in and taking off. That gives the defense one less thing to defend against. This is not a pro-style offense, but that is what it looks like it is trying to be with Mitch in a knee brace. I'd like to see him back in running form for Iowa after they've watched five games worth of film with him gimpy.
 

Indi1006 said:
We have the 112th ranked passing attack in college football.
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And if we were 8-0 you'd still be pissed about that fact. You must have been ripping your hair out when we played SJSU and basically won the game without a passing attack.

We will never have a laser sweet chuck the pigskin 80 times for 600 yards offense here under kill. Get over it.

You started threads on Limegrover, Coach Z, and have been critical of Leidner. We get it, you like passing. Let me suggest Washington St. They suck, but they sure sling it around.

Limegrover has called some absolute gems since he's been here, including some ballsy and brilliant playcalls.

Coach Z has never had a QB here for more than 2 seasons, in that time he's had QB's go on streaks of brilliance(Nelson last year NW-PSU) and had QB's hit walls. It happens when a young player is building consistency.

Which brings us to Leidner, a QB who carries himself well on and off the field, has shown mobility and grit, has thrown absolutely pretty passes, AND has airmailed bad ones. Basically a portrait of a young player still working on his craft.

We didn't lose the game this weekend because Limgrover/Z/or Leidner failed to execute a sweet ass air raid attack.
We lost because our team turned the ball over 3 times on the road in the B1G and spotted a team coming off a bye week 14 points. It doesn't matter if you're playing Tim Brewster in 2010 or Tim Beckman in 2014 or Tom Osborne in 1983, you're going to lose whenever you do that.
 

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