Potential NFL Talent

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jshowers said:
This is true. I've also been charting the Gophers offense and defensive prospects through tape review for a scouting service.
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This is fun. I can do it too. Watch this: I'm a highly respected, well-paid independent scout who gets calls every day from pro teams dying to hear my expertise. You know this is true because I just told you.
 

bottlebass said:
Good thing you didn't read the OP where he said which kids could earn draft spots. But i'll humor your statistic. So 4 punters then each year (2 drafted (51%) and 2 undrafted (49%) are essentially NFL talent. Is Mortell in the top 4? Not even close. Is he top 4 in the B1G yes he has the top avg barely but I doubt he will end the season there. As you said eventually some will not bounce favorably for him.

Go back and watch his punts. He has 1 each game that is nice. 1 that is maybe OK and the rest are just horrible line drive low kicks that are so bad the return man can't even get close to catching them and then they bounce 20 yards to pad his stats. Either you just plain haven't watched his kicks, or maybe you don't understand what a good punt is?

EliteOPinionGuy may be right and maybe a different coach could fix his mechanics but right now he is no where near NFL caliber in his consistency. NFL guys may shank one every once in a while but the rest of their punts they at least can get up in the air which is something that Mortell cannot do consistently.
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Yes, go back and watch. He punts to the situation. That is very hard to do. He drives the ball when needed away from returner and gets the roll. He hangs the up when needed. He is good and possibly best in B1G. Unlikely drafted though.
 

jshowers said:
Rumor is that Murray will declare early, so I've done eval for him as well. He's pretty highly thought of among Midwest/B1G scouts.

Cobb will be a low priority FA signing if that. May just be best to call it a career.

He will very likely run 4.70+ with poor shuttle and three-cone scores. He unfortunately doesn't have NFL chops.
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The rumor about Murray declaring for the draft early is FALSE!! The young man bleeds maroon & gold & loves being a Golden Gopher!! . So please start a different rumor about someone else...
 

414GopherFan said:
The rumor about Murray declaring for the draft early is FALSE!! The young man bleeds maroon & gold & loves being a Golden Gopher!! . So please start a different rumor about someone else...
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Safe to assume you are somehow related to Mr. Murray?
 

Appreciate the opinions on here but the comparison of Cobb to Antonio Andrews was telling. They are very different players. Cobb is not a 4.82 guy. He doesn't have a fumbling problem. He's shifter and more athletic, with better vision. His opinion is as valid as mine but I challenge any of you to compare tape and agree with Jshowers.

This smells like an opinionated guy defending an opinion he formed before the season began. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a pissing match with a buddy or another poster at his website. Since he hasn't been doing this long it's too early to see what his track record will be.

At the bottom of my post is Jshower's preseason RB draft order. It's interesting that David has dropped out of the 7th rd despite having a better year and clearly quicker, stronger, and more athletic than last year. Jshowers what are your current rankings and rationale for some of these guys ahead of Cobb?


RUNNINGBACKS

* Over the last 5 years, the draft average for RBs is 19, with 35 others receiving free agent contracts/camp invites after going undrafted.

1. Todd Gurley, UGA (Top 10)
2. Melvin Gordon, UW (1st)
3. Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska (2nd)
4. Duke Johnson, Miami (2nd)
5. D.J. Foster, ASU (2nd)
6. Mike Davis, USCe (3rd)
7. Karlos Williams, FSU (3rd)
8. TJ Yeldon, Alabama (3rd-4th)
9. Tevin Coleman, Indiana (3rd-4th)
10. David Johnson, UNI (4th)
11. Jay Ajayi, Boise State (4th)
12. Jahwan Edwards, Ball St (4th-5th)
13. Tyreek Hill, Oklahoma State (5th)
14. Josh Robinson, Miss St (5th)
15. Jonathan Williams, Arkansas (5th)
16. Javorius Allen, USC (6th)
17. Jeremy Langford, MSU (6th)
18. Cameron Artis-Payne, Auburn (6th)
19. David Cobb, Minnesota (7th)
20. Dominique Williams, Louisville (7th)
21. Terrance Magee, LSU (7th)

Last edited by jshowers on Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:03 pm; edited 9 times in total
 


Those are my personal grades and such. If I was making the draft decisions for a team and needed a practice squad or 3rd/4th running back, then I would feel comfortable selecting Cobb in the 7th round.

However, that's because of my inherent Maroon and Gold bias and the fact that I like vision and balance over raw athleticism. Most NFL personnel (and that's not what I'm claiming to be, far from it, but I've talked to a few guys with experience in NFL/CFL scouting departments) will use those late round choices on guys with untapped potential.

The thing with Cobb is that he's getting an absolute ton of carries right now, he is maxed out physically/athletically, and what you see is what you get... There is no "upside". He will be in a camp, and may surprise and have a better than expected combine and get picked, but I think most big league clubs will peg him as a 2nd tier free agent and camp body type.
 

jshowers said:
Those are my personal grades and such. If I was making the draft decisions for a team and needed a practice squad or 3rd/4th running back, then I would feel comfortable selecting Cobb in the 7th round.

However, that's because of my inherent Maroon and Gold bias and the fact that I like vision and balance over raw athleticism. Most NFL personnel (and that's not what I'm claiming to be, far from it, but I've talked to a few guys with experience in NFL/CFL scouting departments) will use those late round choices on guys with untapped potential.

The thing with Cobb is that he's getting an absolute ton of carries right now, he is maxed out physically/athletically, and what you see is what you get... There is no "upside". He will be in a camp, and may surprise and have a better than expected combine and get picked, but I think most big league clubs will peg him as a 2nd tier free agent and camp body type.
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Interesting. He has really only played part of last year and this year. He just keeps improving. That doesn't seem like a player that has maxed out. Usually one would plateau, or regress slightly if maxed out.
 

Shon greene 5'11" 226 ran a 4.62 40 3rd round draft pick. Not saying Cobb can run a 4.62, but I never thought MBIII would run under 4.50 and he did. Cobb has hope. Alfred Blue 6-2 223, ran a 4.63 drafted in 6th round. Not all rb's are blazers in the NFL. Alfred Morris 4.67, Monte Ball 4.66, Vikings Asiata-really a fullback-ran 4.77.
 

march madness said:
Shon greene 5'11" 226 ran a 4.62 40 3rd round draft pick. Not saying Cobb can run a 4.62, but I never thought MBIII would run under 4.50 and he did. Cobb has hope. Alfred Blue 6-2 223, ran a 4.63 drafted in 6th round. Not all rb's are blazers in the NFL. Alfred Morris 4.67, Monte Ball 4.66, Vikings Asiata-really a fullback-ran 4.77.
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Yep, I could easily be wrong and maybe with sprint training he impresses more at the combine. I just have him pegged at 4.70+ via the eye test. I think his short legs and lack of quick twitch turnover will be limiting.
 



jshowers said:
Those are my personal grades and such. If I was making the draft decisions for a team and needed a practice squad or 3rd/4th running back, then I would feel comfortable selecting Cobb in the 7th round.

However, that's because of my inherent Maroon and Gold bias and the fact that I like vision and balance over raw athleticism. Most NFL personnel (and that's not what I'm claiming to be, far from it, but I've talked to a few guys with experience in NFL/CFL scouting departments) will use those late round choices on guys with untapped potential.

The thing with Cobb is that he's getting an absolute ton of carries right now, he is maxed out physically/athletically, and what you see is what you get... There is no "upside". He will be in a camp, and may surprise and have a better than expected combine and get picked, but I think most big league clubs will peg him as a 2nd tier free agent and camp body type.
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Your opinion is your opinion but to state it is a fact and say 'he should call it a career' is just dumb. The kid may not make it in the league like a hundred other productive college players each year, but to dismiss him as a prospect completely is silly and pretty childish really. You're so confident in your own ability to 'scout' him that you're completely dismissive of him. There are people that are paid to do this for a living and they're nowhere near 100% right all the time. Have a brother in law that was a scout for multiple NFL teams for years and spent 80 hours a week doing this stuff and he's always said that you never really know about a guy until he's on an NFL practice field and neither combine numbers nor production guarantees anything. Cobb doesn't have elite physical tools but he definitely has traits that translate into the NFL. Speed matters but in a league where 4 yards are hard to come by a back with good vision and power is valuable.
 

oleboy41 said:
Your opinion is your opinion but to state it is a fact and say 'he should call it a career' is just dumb. The kid may not make it in the league like a hundred other productive college players each year, but to dismiss him as a prospect completely is silly and pretty childish really. You're so confident in your own ability to 'scout' him that you're completely dismissive of him. There are people that are paid to do this for a living and they're nowhere near 100% right all the time. Have a brother in law that was a scout for multiple NFL teams for years and spent 80 hours a week doing this stuff and he's always said that you never really know about a guy until he's on an NFL practice field and neither combine numbers nor production guarantees anything. Cobb doesn't have elite physical tools but he definitely has traits that translate into the NFL. Speed matters but in a league where 4 yards are hard to come by a back with good vision and power is valuable.
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Almost every team now is running back by committee and EVERY one of those teams has a back just like Cobb. Not the fastest but has good vision, breaks tackles, and always gains yards after contact. His fundamentals will get him into the league.
 

My thoughts on Cobb are that he is excellent at finding and hitting a hole, great after first contact, and absolutely lousy in the open field. I can't think of one time this year he went the right direction in the open field. I think the first two are way more important than the third, and I love Cobb. But man, he would have a lot more yards if he had open field vision to match his LOS vision.
 

Talking draft potential can be fun, but around GH it's good to remember that a few years ago, minus a few savvy protesters, the resident experts concluded that Adam Weber had a great shot at the NFL while Eric Decker simply did not have enough speed to play on Sundays. Okay then.
 



maxwellsmart said:
Talking draft potential can be fun, but around GH it's good to remember that a few years ago, minus a few savvy protesters, the resident experts concluded that Adam Weber had a great shot at the NFL while Eric Decker simply did not have enough speed to play on Sundays. Okay then.
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I don't remember either of those things. People said Weber had a shot and that is true. He got a shot by getting invited to several camps and making the practice squad for awhile. And I don't ever remember anyone saying Decker had no shot.
 

First off, jshowers says he will be lucky to be a low priority UFA, then says Cobb has a 7th round grade. BS. I bet Cobb will surprise a lot of people with his speed at the combine. One thing you guys underestimate is how good the Gophers' coaches are (strength and conditioning, etc). Of the last couple of years, people we didn't think could make any noise at the combine, have. Example? Ra'shede, Brock. They were at the top of their positions at the combine.

I honestly think Cobb will be a Barber clone. Hard nose, down hill, deceptive speed runner, but I actually think Cobb has better vision than Barber. At this point, I think Cobb will be a 4th or 5th rounder, but he still has time to improve on that. If the NFL wasn't such a pass happy league, I'd put him in the 3rd or 4th round. I think he's built better for the NFL as a RB than Abdullah is. Abdullah will probably be in the Reggie Bush / Harvin mold.

I do scouting for myself, as I currently have a first place fantasy football team.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I don't remember either of those things. People said Weber had a shot and that is true. He got a shot by getting invited to several camps and making the practice squad for awhile. And I don't ever remember anyone saying Decker had no shot.
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Oh.
 

Cobb has tremendous vision and is very tough. Watch other running backs and see how quick they are to take themselves out of the game. Cobb almost never does. I don't know about draft status but I would be surprised if he doesn't play a few years in the league. Everyone loves a back that is tough and doesn't get injured.
 

jshowers said:
Those are my personal grades and such. If I was making the draft decisions for a team and needed a practice squad or 3rd/4th running back, then I would feel comfortable selecting Cobb in the 7th round.

However, that's because of my inherent Maroon and Gold bias and the fact that I like vision and balance over raw athleticism. Most NFL personnel (and that's not what I'm claiming to be, far from it, but I've talked to a few guys with experience in NFL/CFL scouting departments) will use those late round choices on guys with untapped potential.

The thing with Cobb is that he's getting an absolute ton of carries right now, he is maxed out physically/athletically, and what you see is what you get... There is no "upside". He will be in a camp, and may surprise and have a better than expected combine and get picked, but I think most big league clubs will peg him as a 2nd tier free agent and camp body type.
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He hasn't worn his threads like Archie Griffin did in college. JShowers, with all due respect you are forgetting that Cobb didn't get many carries his first two years.

I like his vision and shiftiness. He seems to make the first guy miss. Kill saw a good horse and he keeps riding him to victory!

My GH bias is that his upside if he makes it into the pros is more like Melwede Moore, the Viking's fourth round pick in the 2004N NFL draft. IMHO, he will be a potential 4th rounder too.
 

It's a Pig Man! said:
Safe to assume you are somehow related to Mr. Murray?
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Sorry for the delay getting back to you Sir. Without getting into too much detail. Its safe to say that I am in the "know". Its also safe to say that Eric will play his SR yr for the Gophers unless Coach Sawvel.Coach Claeys & most importantly Coach Jerry Kill advise him to do otherwise.
 

414GopherFan said:
Sorry for the delay getting back to you Sir. Without getting into too much detail. Its safe to say that I am in the "know". Its also safe to say that Eric will play his SR yr for the Gophers unless Coach Sawvel.Coach Claeys & most importantly Coach Jerry Kill advise him to do otherwise.
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Fair enough and I appreciate the info! Just kind of assumed since you have the Milwaukee area code in your handle. It really isn't any of my business anyway. And I'm definitely not a sir haha (I'm a guy, just way to young to be considered a sir).
 

hungan1 said:
He hasn't worn his threads like Archie Griffin did in college. JShowers, with all due respect you are forgetting that Cobb didn't get many carries his first two years.

I like his vision and shiftiness. He seems to make the first guy miss. Kill saw a good horse and he keeps riding him to victory!

My GH bias is that his upside if he makes it into the pros is more like Melwede Moore, the Viking's fourth round pick in the 2004N NFL draft. IMHO, he will be a potential 4th rounder too.
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Mewelde was my favorite Vikings RB of that era. He had an insane motor and would not be tackled one first, second, third contact. His high-stepping spinning dervish style was just awesome to watch. The coaches stubbornly kept playing Michael Bennett-another overrated speed back. Same brain trust that drafted speedster Troy Williamson?

I'm pretty sure waltzing Mewlde went on to play a role with the Steelers for a number of years.

Cobb can flat out play despite non-elite speed and wise observers realize this. I will be shocked if he doesn't find a spot or is drafted lower than many of those guys on the last half of Jshower's list.
 

Cobb caught McShay's eye. Cobb will get drafted barring a bad injury.

Prospect on the rise


McShay: I channeled my inner Kiper and came up with two picks for this one:

David Cobb, RB, Minnesota Golden Gophers: Cobb is a tough, highly competitive runner who rushed for 194 yards on 35 carries in the Gophers' 39-28 win over Purdue Saturday. I was really impressed with what I saw from him on TV, and am looking forward to studying his tape.

http://insider.espn.go.com/college-...-state-deserve-playoff-berth-college-football
 

jshowers said:
Those are my personal grades and such. If I was making the draft decisions for a team and needed a practice squad or 3rd/4th running back, then I would feel comfortable selecting Cobb in the 7th round.

However, that's because of my inherent Maroon and Gold bias and the fact that I like vision and balance over raw athleticism. Most NFL personnel (and that's not what I'm claiming to be, far from it, but I've talked to a few guys with experience in NFL/CFL scouting departments) will use those late round choices on guys with untapped potential.

The thing with Cobb is that he's getting an absolute ton of carries right now, he is maxed out physically/athletically, and what you see is what you get... There is no "upside". He will be in a camp, and may surprise and have a better than expected combine and get picked, but I think most big league clubs will peg him as a 2nd tier free agent and camp body type.
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So he's good enough that he may get drafted, but also not good enough that he's a 2nd tier free agent? 2nd tier free agent basically means that he goes to rookie minicamp on a tryout basis. lol
 

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