MN Daily: Gone are the days of mismanaged games and a lack of player development

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Agree with Bleed in taking issue with the "greener pastures" comment.

Overall, it's great people are excited, but Minnesota fans (maybe all fans?) are far too quick to call someone a success or declare them definitively good at something. Tubby's first few years at Minnesota matched or exceeded expectations both on the court and on the recruiting trail. A glowing article about Tubby and the future of the program could have been written after year 1, after year 2, and maybe after year 3. However, things went downhill fast and his overall B1G record ended up not that much different than Dan Monson's. As bright as the future looked after year 2, it looked equally bleak after year 4 or 5.

Lets hope the patter doesn't repeat itself and Pitino can continue to move the program forward.
 

EG#9 said:
Agree with Bleed in taking issue with the "greener pastures" comment.

Overall, it's great people are excited, but Minnesota fans (maybe all fans?) are far too quick to call someone a success or declare them definitively good at something. Tubby's first few years at Minnesota matched or exceeded expectations both on the court and on the recruiting trail. A glowing article about Tubby and the future of the program could have been written after year 1, after year 2, and maybe after year 3. However, things went downhill fast and his overall B1G record ended up not that much different than Dan Monson's. As bright as the future looked after year 2, it looked equally bleak after year 4 or 5.

Lets hope the patter doesn't repeat itself and Pitino can continue to move the program forward.
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You're absolutely right. I was ecstatic when I heard Tubby was coming here. However, after year three that excitement was starting to die. Tubby did have some bad luck but the age factor is huge and Pitino gives every indication that he's going to stay hungry. Also, and I have no way of being certain, he seems to relate better to the players even with the ass chewing during games. At a certain age, it's easy to figure, "Screw them, I don't have to explain myself. I know more than them. They better do it my way." Tubby earned the right to feel that way, but I think it cost him. Pitino knows more than them (or us) also, but he still sees the need to relate and the connect with the players. He's not going to sit stoically on a stool for a long, long time. Of course, there's the fear he might split for someplace where he doesn't have to sit on a stool.
 

Tubby was a great coach, and his first few years were pretty good also. But I think after time, it was hard for him to compete in the big ten. His style of play wasn't very attractive to the young up and coming kids. And soon enough, people just go tired of him and his assistants. His assistants didn't seem very good. He did things his way, and probably got a little too comfortable. I think his age, made him recruit as hard as he used to. With that said, I was one of the many who thought that change would be good for us. Change was good for him also.
 

Gold Vision said:
Haha. There will be people that eat this up, but there is not a single fact or piece of substance in that article. Tubby's first 2 years here were outstanding; on the recruiting trail and player development. The kid that wrote this article was 11 or 12 years old at the time, so he probably has no idea what shape the program was in when Tubby took over. He has no idea how much of a success those first 2-3 years of Tubby's tenure were.

If we are comparing first years in the program, and first 2 recruiting classes, Tubby and Pitino both have done excellent jobs. It'd be hard to separate the two. I'm happy with where we're at now, but this article is so off base it's hilarious.
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+1
 


A few things.

1. I understand why Teague wanted to go in a different direction when he fired Tubby. The move didn't surprise, nor outrage me.

2. It's difficult not to like what Pitino has done so far. The man is young and hungry, and wants to climb. He's clearly been prepped by the master (his dad) and by all early indications appears prepared to lead a major conference program. At this time he has "home run" written all over him.

3. All that said, if he dropped trow in front of me am not ready to smooch his back side at every turn (move he makes) like so many appear willing to do. If he gets the Gophers to the NCAAs in his 2nd and 3rd seasons like Tubby did & then sticks around and the program continues to climb, we very well may have ourselves a full-fledged and successful "power coach" like his father. But until then, too early to assume all that.
 

RolGnav said:
Tubby was a great coach, and his first few years were pretty good also. But I think after time, it was hard for him to compete in the big ten. His style of play wasn't very attractive to the young up and coming kids. And soon enough, people just go tired of him and his assistants. His assistants didn't seem very good. He did things his way, and probably got a little too comfortable. I think his age, made him recruit as hard as he used to. With that said, I was one of the many who thought that change would be good for us. Change was good for him also.
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Tubby and Monson actually had some similarities early on: overachieved with the previous coach's guys, had some early recruiting success but couldn't realize the potential of those early strong recruiting classes when it came to conference wins and losses.
 

I can't believe someone said "Greener Pastures" and questioned it. Duke and Stanford are top 10 nationally anked schools in academics and easily outdisance the U's 71st ranking. Plus the athletic programs at Duke and Stanford are in a totally different league than the Gophers. Not saying we can't get there, but it is a long long road.

As for the other two, one of them followed his coach to Vegas and the other wouldn't fit very well into Pitino's system in my opinion. He went to Xavier for christ's sake! How many of you even know where that college is?
 

Otis said:
I can't believe someone said "Greener Pastures" and questioned it. Duke and Stanford are top 10 nationally anked schools in academics and easily outdisance the U's 71st ranking. Plus the athletic programs at Duke and Stanford are in a totally different league than the Gophers. Not saying we can't get there, but it is a long long road.

As for the other two, one of them followed his coach to Vegas and the other wouldn't fit very well into Pitino's system in my opinion. He went to Xavier for christ's sake! How many of you even know where that college is?
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Umm, Cincinnati. And that supports the "greener pastures" comment ... how? Here's the deal, each of those kids obviously felt that they were better off going to the colleges they picked than the U. Fine. I hope they're proven wrong, as a basketball matter. And now, there's no further need to talk about them or their chosen teams unless we're facing them on the court.
 




bga1 said:
Fact is this- The Pitino we see is a lot more fun, active in recruiting and showing more in player development than the outgoing version of Tubby did in his final few years here.
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I agree that Pitino gives fans more reason for optimism than the latter Tubby era, but, to be fair, there were times when Pitino's first year team was as frustrating as Tubby's last year team. The biggest difference is that Pitino was able to find and further develop a quality true point guard in his first year while Tubby struggled with finding that through most of his tenure here.
 

Man, look at all of the Tubby lovers in this thread. Don't all of you know that Tubby Smith is the modern-day Pol Pot and the worst thing to happen not only to Gopher basketball, but Gopher athletics, the University of Minnesota system, and the entire state of Minnesota as well?
 




dpodoll68 said:
Man, look at all of the Tubby lovers in this thread. Don't all of you know that Tubby Smith is the modern-day Pol Pot and the worst thing to happen not only to Gopher basketball, but Gopher athletics, the University of Minnesota system, and the entire state of Minnesota as well?
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Finally!
 

Comparing the Year 1s

With one year of data (that's all we have), Tubby and Pitino had eerily similar first seasons. Non-DI wins are excluded from the totals.

Tubby (2007-08)
Overall Record: 20-14
Big Ten Record: 8-10
Conference Place: 6th
February Record: 4-4
March + BTT Record: 3-3 (BTT semis)
Postseason Record: 0-1 (lost NIT opener)

Pitino (2013-14)
Overall Record: 24-13
Big Ten Record: 8-10
Conference Place: 7th
February Record: 3-5
March + BTT Record: 2-2 (BTT quarters)
Postseason Record: 5-0 (NIT title)

The obvious difference was Pitino's NIT run.

Being completely impartial, I felt the exact same way after each of their debut seasons. Was highly optimistic about the Gophers' future in March of 2008 (Hoffarber's buzzer-beater cemented that feeling) and feel the same way now.
 

I wonder if all of the NCAA appearances that Tubby had caused him to slip during the NIT in his first year(it being a let down after not making the NCAAs). Where as Pitino still being young and not having made the NCAA as a head coach might have continued the drive even though it was only the NIT and not the NCAAs.

I was ecstatic with Tubby his first few years too. Just his program kinda fell off. For the recored I thought tubby would be given 1 more season then he was given his NCAA result. I also get sick of people defending/attacking Tubby to make points.


Anyway neither here nor there the true test is what does Richard does during seasons 3 & 4 when he only has his guys in there.
 


dpodoll68 said:
Man, look at all of the Tubby lovers in this thread. Don't all of you know that Tubby Smith is the modern-day Pol Pot and the worst thing to happen not only to Gopher basketball, but Gopher athletics, the University of Minnesota system, and the entire state of Minnesota as well?
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Thank, God! You escaped your kidnappers and are well. Or did they say, "What were we thinking?" and simply made you leave?
 

dpodoll68 said:
Man, look at all of the Tubby lovers in this thread. Don't all of you know that Tubby Smith is the modern-day Pol Pot and the worst thing to happen not only to Gopher basketball, but Gopher athletics, the University of Minnesota system, and the entire state of Minnesota as well?
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"...and also, GET OFF MY LAWN!"
 

I don't jump into the Tubby debate very often. I liked Tubby but also thought it was time for a change as things were stagnant.

I got to talk with Tubby for an extended period once when he was in WI scouting Ellenson (was with Wally's dad John too, and he isn't the awful pain in the arse many on the gopher hole make him out to be...but that's a different story). Anyway Tubby was the kindest and nicest and most approachable person.

Anyway, Tubby did a great job turning the team around in his first few years. We all know his main issue wasn't originally recruiting, it was holding on to players and having too many key guys transfer.
That lead to brining in last minute replacements like Mav who weren't very good.

But over the last few seasons things got stagnant under tubby. Sure his last year was probably more successful than Pitino's first year (very similar record but Tubby did make the NCAA tournament and won a game). But there was not much more of an upside with Tubby. He had a below average class coming in and not much hope for improvement the next few seasons. So the administration did the right thing and made a change. I firmly believe we are much better where we are right now then we would be with Tubby. We don't need to bash him or whatever, he is a great coach but we caught him after his best days were behind him. He did an admirable job here but I firmly believe Pitino will have us much more competitive in the near future. Sorry for the long rambling post. Most of which is captain obvious stuff anyway.
 

Tubby more than doubled gopher wins his first season, Pitino won the same . Tubby got handed a last place team, Pitino got handed a team in final 32. Pretty stupid to compare first seasons.
 

The Brain Trust said:
Tubby more than doubled gopher wins his first season, Pitino won the same . Tubby got handed a last place team, Pitino got handed a team in final 32. Pretty stupid to compare first seasons.
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Just to keep that going Tubby had 308 wins as a head coach and 1 national championship before Coming to MN. Richard Pitino had 18 and no NCAA experience. Good job by Richard to almost match Tubby in his first season here.
 

Tim1406 said:
Just to keep that going Tubby had 308 wins as a head coach and 1 national championship before Coming to MN. Richard Pitino had 18 and no NCAA experience. Good job by Richard to almost match Tubby in his first season here.
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^
 

Previous Coach is gone. Current Coach is here. Comparing serves no useful purpose.

Good luck to Tubby

Better luck to Pitino.
 



I can't believe some people have the nerve to compare the two in a thread about an article comparing the two.
 

shickmyjanski said:
I wish people wouldn't comment on threads that they wish didn't exist. How does the phrase go? "You can wish in one hand and......"
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If you think you can all rip on Tubby mercilessly and I'm not going to say anything, think again. I don't know how many different ways I can phrase it.
 

dpodoll68 said:
If you think you can all rip on Tubby mercilessly and I'm not going to say anything, think again. I don't know how many different ways I can phrase it.
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Give it a try. I bet you can come up with at least 20 different ways. Prove me wrong :cool:
 

SelectionSunday said:
With one year of data (that's all we have), Tubby and Pitino had eerily similar first seasons. Non-DI wins are excluded from the totals.

Tubby (2007-08)
Overall Record: 20-14
Big Ten Record: 8-10
Conference Place: 6th
February Record: 4-4
March + BTT Record: 3-3 (BTT semis)
Postseason Record: 0-1 (lost NIT opener)

Pitino (2013-14)
Overall Record: 24-13
Big Ten Record: 8-10
Conference Place: 7th
February Record: 3-5
March + BTT Record: 2-2 (BTT quarters)
Postseason Record: 5-0 (NIT title)

The obvious difference was Pitino's NIT run.

Being completely impartial, I felt the exact same way after each of their debut seasons. Was highly optimistic about the Gophers' future in March of 2008 (Hoffarber's buzzer-beater cemented that feeling) and feel the same way now.
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+1


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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