One flaw is killing this team and will all season long.

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WolfontheProwl

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I am always left scratching my head after Gopher games and how people react to them. I will say I underestimated TCU they are a much better team than what I was expecting and their defense was very impressive. They showed good team speed and were very prepared for what they were going to see. Having a week off between games really helped them. The TCU offense wasn't nearly as impressive but it didn't need to be.

Now for the Gophers. The team is severely flawed on offense and it allows teams to easily game plan against them. The inability to throw the football on an average level allows teams to bring extra defenders up to the line of scrimmage and overwhelm what is a pretty good offensive line. Throw in the use of two to three TE's on so many plays the Gophers simply don't have much room to run. This issue is not going to be fixed during this season because unlike the NFL you simply cant trade for a better QB in college. You must rely on the team improving from within. I see people blaming the offensive line for the struggles of the offense, well that is a byproduct of the lack of a passing game. I would like to say the issue is the lack of WR play but I see far to many open pass catchers who are more times than not overthrown or ignored by a QB locked in on one player. To have an offense that works especially one based on a strong running game needs to have a threat in the passing game. That passing game must pick up first downs and it must make teams pay for leaving receivers open down the field. I am not sure right now defenses would have to cover anyone other than Williams because our QB doesn't look to throw to anyone else unless its a dump off pass. When he does throw its not a lock to be close to the intended target.

I am getting tired of reading scouting reports especially from recruits that are QBs that mention them being great leaders and WR's that are great blockers. These things are of course good things, don't get me wrong. I want to start reading about QB recruits that are known for their big accurate arms, Wide Receiver who have great hands and get open, and most of all I want to see recruits that have top notch physical tools for the positions they will play. I am starting to think scouting reports that say "this QB is a great leader" is really saying "this QB cant throw a lick but he can run a little and takes a beating". Great run blocking WR's must be the line given to WR's who cant get open or wont catch it if they were open. I understand the Gophers need complete players at every position but it just seems to me that to many of our recruits are being overhyped by secondary skills. A great WR for example will take up a defender if he can block or not. A QB needs to be able to lead the team but if he cant throw he isn't leading them anywhere.
 

we are 3 games into the season- effective market analysis takes place before the bell....by 10 A.M. yer broke and i have your money. It's 10:00 A.M. in the Gophers 2014 football campaign.
 

The same exact thing could have been written - probably was - after the Iowa/Michigan games last year. The Gophers then won their next 4. Patience.
 

sure was but not by me...in fact we have me on record predicting the 3 game win streak. thanks for the sweet hanging meatball slowpitch.
 

I dont mean this in a bad way as you are probably much younger than I am but I dont want people to tell me to have patience.Its been 54 years since we have been to a rose bowl. I have worn out my patiene.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
The same exact thing could have been written - probably was - after the Iowa/Michigan games last year. The Gophers then won their next 4. Patience.
Click to expand...

True and good to remember that. The problem is the lack of a passing game stuff was then written after the losses to Wisconsin, Michigan State, Syracuse, after the victory against MTSU and now again after the blowout loss in Texas.

Patience? You never need to remind a Gopher fan of that.

<img id="ums_img_tooltip" class="UMSRatingIcon">
 

full on respect for all the fans who came before me(1989) and still stand holding the flag. Cap tip, firm handshake and a cold beer waiting for any of you guys.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The same exact thing could have been written - probably was - after the Iowa/Michigan games last year. The Gophers then won their next 4. Patience.
Click to expand...

I think lack of patience is an odd thing to accuse anyone who is still a Gopher fan of. I was a freshman in 2006, so since then I have seen 8 football seasons and 8 basketball seasons. In those combined 16 seasons, I have not once seen a winning Big Ten record out of either team. 0 for 16 is an insanely bad number for what should not be that unattainable of a goal.
 

don't poke the bear. if he wakes yer gonna get 50 years of futility that'll make yer 8 seasons look like a flesh wound.
 



WolfontheProwl said:
I am always left scratching my head after Gopher games and how people react to them. I will say I underestimated TCU they are a much better team than what I was expecting and their defense was very impressive. They showed good team speed and were very prepared for what they were going to see. Having a week off between games really helped them. The TCU offense wasn't nearly as impressive but it didn't need to be.

Now for the Gophers. The team is severely flawed on offense and it allows teams to easily game plan against them. The inability to throw the football on an average level allows teams to bring extra defenders up to the line of scrimmage and overwhelm what is a pretty good offensive line. Throw in the use of two to three TE's on so many plays the Gophers simply don't have much room to run. This issue is not going to be fixed during this season because unlike the NFL you simply cant trade for a better QB in college. You must rely on the team improving from within. I see people blaming the offensive line for the struggles of the offense, well that is a byproduct of the lack of a passing game. I would like to say the issue is the lack of WR play but I see far to many open pass catchers who are more times than not overthrown or ignored by a QB locked in on one player. To have an offense that works especially one based on a strong running game needs to have a threat in the passing game. That passing game must pick up first downs and it must make teams pay for leaving receivers open down the field. I am not sure right now defenses would have to cover anyone other than Williams because our QB doesn't look to throw to anyone else unless its a dump off pass. When he does throw its not a lock to be close to the intended target.

I am getting tired of reading scouting reports especially from recruits that are QBs that mention them being great leaders and WR's that are great blockers. These things are of course good things, don't get me wrong. I want to start reading about QB recruits that are known for their big accurate arms, Wide Receiver who have great hands and get open, and most of all I want to see recruits that have top notch physical tools for the positions they will play. I am starting to think scouting reports that say "this QB is a great leader" is really saying "this QB cant throw a lick but he can run a little and takes a beating". Great run blocking WR's must be the line given to WR's who cant get open or wont catch it if they were open. I understand the Gophers need complete players at every position but it just seems to me that to many of our recruits are being overhyped by secondary skills. A great WR for example will take up a defender if he can block or not. A QB needs to be able to lead the team but if he cant throw he isn't leading them anywhere.
Click to expand...


I agree with your position that the passing game is far below substandard. And the impact is what you have witnessed over and over again.

It doesnt look to improve much soon - unless the players really develop quickly.
 

BarnBurner said:
I agree with your position that the passing game is far below substandard. And the impact is what you have witnessed over and over again.

It doesnt look to improve much soon - unless the players really develop quickly.
Click to expand...

Execution was lacking not talent or scheme.
I saw drops from receivers, missed blocks by linemen, inaccurate passes by the QB, and mistakes by runningbacks. The Cobb fumble was the worst turnover of the day IMO.
To me, it's inexcusable for veterans to make those mistakes, but we're not dealing with veterans here. I know some fans are simply incapable of patience, but that's what's needed. The receivers will get better , the linemen will get better, and yes, even the QB's will get better.
 

Ole said:
Execution was lacking not talent or scheme.
I saw drops from receivers, missed blocks by linemen, inaccurate passes by the QB, and mistakes by runningbacks. The Cobb fumble was the worst turnover of the day IMO.
To me, it's inexcusable for veterans to make those mistakes, but we're not dealing with veterans here. I know some fans are simply incapable of patience, but that's what's needed. The receivers will get better , the linemen will get better, and yes, even the QB's will get better.
Click to expand...

Now I finally understand your obsession with allowing everybody the chance to get drunk before the game. "Beer goggles" really help sometimes in watching them play. :drink:
 

Iceland12 said:
Now I finally understand your obsession with allowing everybody the chance to get drunk before the game. "Beer goggles" really help sometimes in watching them play. :drink:
Click to expand...

Watched this one totally sober.
There are alot of people here who simply are terrible football minds, who are also very passionate fans.
The young guys will get better, the team will get better, and the program will get better.
In this offense the QB simply doesn't need to be a great passer to succeed, he does need to take care of the football and execute the offense.
 



some fixes...

WolfontheProwl said:
I am always left scratching my head after Gopher games and how people react to them. I will say I underestimated TCU they are a much better team than what I was expecting and their defense was very impressive. They showed good team speed and were very prepared for what they were going to see. Having a week off between games really helped them. The TCU offense wasn't nearly as impressive but it didn't need to be.

Now for the Gophers. The team is severely flawed on offense and it allows teams to easily game plan against them. The inability to throw the football on an average level allows teams to bring extra defenders up to the line of scrimmage and overwhelm what is a pretty good offensive line. Throw in the use of two to three TE's on so many plays the Gophers simply don't have much room to run. This issue is not going to be fixed during this season because unlike the NFL you simply cant trade for a better QB in college. You must rely on the team improving from within. I see people blaming the offensive line for the struggles of the offense, well that is a byproduct of the lack of a passing game. I would like to say the issue is the lack of WR play but I see far to many open pass catchers who are more times than not overthrown or ignored by a QB locked in on one player. To have an offense that works especially one based on a strong running game needs to have a threat in the passing game. That passing game must pick up first downs and it must make teams pay for leaving receivers open down the field. I am not sure right now defenses would have to cover anyone other than Williams because our QB doesn't look to throw to anyone else unless its a dump off pass. When he does throw its not a lock to be close to the intended target.

I am getting tired of reading scouting reports especially from recruits that are QBs that mention them being great leaders and WR's that are great blockers. These things are of course good things, don't get me wrong. I want to start reading about QB recruits that are known for their big accurate arms, Wide Receiver who have great hands and get open, and most of all I want to see recruits that have top notch physical tools for the positions they will play. I am starting to think scouting reports that say "this QB is a great leader" is really saying "this QB cant throw a lick but he can run a little and takes a beating". Great run blocking WR's must be the line given to WR's who cant get open or wont catch it if they were open. I understand the Gophers need complete players at every position but it just seems to me that to many of our recruits are being overhyped by secondary skills. A great WR for example will take up a defender if he can block or not. A QB needs to be able to lead the team but if he cant throw he isn't leading them anywhere.
Click to expand...

Want offense? Start Jacques Perra, the most instinctive passer on the roster and someone who will probably double the passing stats. Also, if we're going to feature two tight ends, make them Maxx Williams and Jerry Gibson, the best playmakers we have at that position. I'd also like to see Rodney Smith some at RB. This kid is fast, elusive and physical enough to run you over. That's worth 10 more points a game in conference.
 

Ole said:
Execution was lacking not talent or scheme.
I saw drops from receivers, missed blocks by linemen, inaccurate passes by the QB, and mistakes by runningbacks. The Cobb fumble was the worst turnover of the day IMO.
To me, it's inexcusable for veterans to make those mistakes, but we're not dealing with veterans here. I know some fans are simply incapable of patience, but that's what's needed. The receivers will get better , the linemen will get better, and yes, even the QB's will get better.
Click to expand...

Your "worst turnover of the day" was committed by a Senior RB. "it's inexcusable for veterans to make those mistakes, but we're not dealing with veterans here."
 

WolfontheProwl said:
I am getting tired of reading scouting reports especially from recruits that are QBs that mention them being great leaders and WR's that are great blockers. These things are of course good things, don't get me wrong. I want to start reading about QB recruits that are known for their big accurate arms, Wide Receiver who have great hands and get open, and most of all I want to see recruits that have top notch physical tools for the positions they will play. I am starting to think scouting reports that say "this QB is a great leader" is really saying "this QB cant throw a lick but he can run a little and takes a beating". Great run blocking WR's must be the line given to WR's who cant get open or wont catch it if they were open. I understand the Gophers need complete players at every position but it just seems to me that to many of our recruits are being overhyped by secondary skills. A great WR for example will take up a defender if he can block or not. A QB needs to be able to lead the team but if he cant throw he isn't leading them anywhere.
Click to expand...

Kind of like being told your blind date 'has a nice personality'?
 

I think we are basically where we were last year after the Michigan and Iowa loses. I know at that point I felt that we were condemned to mediocrity for years to come - a very unhappy thought for a 74 year old who has been following Gopher sports since at least 1950. But the good news is that things picked up after that and we played well after that even in the end of the season losses. And as poorly as Leidner has played to start the season, he was, in my opinion, one of the reasons for last year's midseason improvement. Let's hope it happens again. But I do agree that our lack of an effective passing game is our primary problem.
 


Ole said:
Execution was lacking not talent or scheme.
I saw drops from receivers, missed blocks by linemen, inaccurate passes by the QB, and mistakes by runningbacks. The Cobb fumble was the worst turnover of the day IMO.
To me, it's inexcusable for veterans to make those mistakes, but we're not dealing with veterans here. I know some fans are simply incapable of patience, but that's what's needed. The receivers will get better , the linemen will get better, and yes, even the QB's will get better.
Click to expand...

You may turn out to be correct but stating it as fact before it happens doesn't make it true.

Also may turn out these players are exactly what we have seen so far and the problem isn't execution but overall talent.
 

At some point Leidner needs to do more. There was one play in particular where he was rolling right, had a receiver (I believe Freuchte) wide open right in front of him in the direction he was moving and instead turns and throws across his body to a double covered tight end (I think Williams?). That should have been intercepted but I think the two defenders knocked it away from each other. The TE had NO chance. That one play was one example of many where he had open receivers and didn't make any attempt to get it to them. Freuchte might as well have been invisible because no matter how open he got Leidner never looked his way. And it certainly looked like Freuchte was getting frustrated by his body language.

Other frustrations:

Berkley Edwards in there a couple times and every time they tried to run it up the gut with 8 men in the box. He's not that running back. He needs room to make something happen.

Rodrick Williams goes in and has a very good series then is not seen again until the game is out of hand.

The more I see the Golden I the less I like it. It just doesn't seem to be effective.

The above doesn't mean they can't win any games in the B1G. There will be teams that defend things differently that allow the the team to be successful. But there are some big red flags that need addressing if this team wants to improve.
 

Ole said:
Execution was lacking not talent or scheme.
I saw drops from receivers, missed blocks by linemen, inaccurate passes by the QB, and mistakes by runningbacks. The Cobb fumble was the worst turnover of the day IMO.
To me, it's inexcusable for veterans to make those mistakes, but we're not dealing with veterans here. I know some fans are simply incapable of patience, but that's what's needed. The receivers will get better , the linemen will get better, and yes, even the QB's will get better.
Click to expand...

You didnt see the difference in talent at key positions? WR? QB? D Line?

MN talent is improving, however the difference was glaring on Sat. Speed #1.

Some of the missed blocks from the line are the result of being so one dimensional, and the opposing D taking advantage of it.

I sat in the Dome and watched Wisky win a game that MN dominated. MN needed a couple yards to seal the deal the could not get it with the running game. If Mase had even a marginal passing game, he would have won a lot more games.

Look around college fb. The passing game is a huge weapon for so many teams. Not MN.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
The more I see the Golden I the less I like it. It just doesn't seem to be effective.
Click to expand...

Agree with this 100%.

It often worked well last year, so I don't know if it's getting schemed better, or if it's execution. It seems to develop more slowly this year. Maybe they're setting up a play off that, but I haven't seen anything to that effect so far.
 

BarnBurner said:
You didnt see the difference in talent at key positions? WR? QB? D Line?

MN talent is improving, however the difference was glaring on Sat. Speed #1.

Some of the missed blocks from the line are the result of being so one dimensional, and the opposing D taking advantage of it.

I sat in the Dome and watched Wisky win a game that MN dominated. MN needed a couple yards to seal the deal the could not get it with the running game. If Mase had even a marginal passing game, he would have won a lot more games.

Look around college fb. The passing game is a huge weapon for so many teams. Not MN.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, we didn't match up talentwise with TCU, they have speed to burn over us.

We can and will IMO compete talentwise with the B1G.
It's going to take time and patience to develop into a program who talentwise can compete nationally with a program like TCU.

The passing game just isn't going to be a huge part of our offense at MN,think less Baylor, more Kansas St.
 

BarnBurner said:
Look around college fb. The passing game is a huge weapon for so many teams. Not MN.
Click to expand...

(then) #9 USC:

Rushing yards - 20
Passing yards - 317

Boston College:

Rushing yards - 452
Passing yards - 54

BC wins 37 - 31.

I didn't see the game, but it is easy to assume that BC executed their plan, where we did not...at all.

This is quite dramatic, and I really want to see better balance with the Gophers, but we'll be a running team, plain and simple. We need better efficiency in the passing game, and that is obvious to everyone, but the biggest thing we need to do until we have the depth that the team needs, is to out-execute the other team.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
At some point Leidner needs to do more. There was one play in particular where he was rolling right, had a receiver (I believe Freuchte) wide open right in front of him in the direction he was moving and instead turns and throws across his body to a double covered tight end (I think Williams?). That should have been intercepted but I think the two defenders knocked it away from each other. The TE had NO chance. That one play was one example of many where he had open receivers and didn't make any attempt to get it to them. Freuchte might as well have been invisible because no matter how open he got Leidner never looked his way. And it certainly looked like Freuchte was getting frustrated by his body language.

Other frustrations:

Berkley Edwards in there a couple times and every time they tried to run it up the gut with 8 men in the box. He's not that running back. He needs room to make something happen.

Rodrick Williams goes in and has a very good series then is not seen again until the game is out of hand.

The more I see the Golden I the less I like it. It just doesn't seem to be effective.

The above doesn't mean they can't win any games in the B1G. There will be teams that defend things differently that allow the the team to be successful. But there are some big red flags that need addressing if this team wants to improve.
Click to expand...

Leidner's rolling right, throw back across the field: jmo there is no way a quarterback even considers that throw
unless it is a called play. Leidner locks onto receivers. He's not rolling right, eliminating all options on that side of the field and throwing all the way left unless it's a pre-determined call. Then, the execution is compounded by the fact the "intended mis-direction receiver" was double covered and he still threw it. That is scheme and execution.

Berkley into the line over the center is questionable scheme.
Roderick gashes them twice for big chunks and TCU is chippy. Rather than pound the rock with Roderick on fire....yelling "gimme the ball"...we take him out of the game and return to ineffectiveness. That is coaching.
Leidner not throwing any easily complete-able passes is scheme. Passes to the backs to get them in space and give your quarterback and the team some confidence.
Running misdirection on third and one is scheme.
There is plenty of scheme to go around with execution Ole. Coaching is putting people in position to succeed.
If the scheme is faulty, you are not going to be able to execute it.
 

60's Guy said:
Leidner's rolling right, throw back across the field: jmo there is no way a quarterback even considers that throw
unless it is a called play. Leidner locks onto receivers. He's not rolling right, eliminating all options on that side of the field and throwing all the way left unless it's a pre-determined call. Then, the execution is compounded by the fact the "intended mis-direction receiver" was double covered and he still threw it. That is scheme and execution.

Berkley into the line over the center is questionable scheme.
Roderick gashes them twice for big chunks and TCU is chippy. Rather than pound the rock with Roderick on fire....yelling "gimme the ball"...we take him out of the game and return to ineffectiveness. That is coaching.
Leidner not throwing any easily complete-able passes is scheme. Passes to the backs to get them in space and give your quarterback and the team some confidence.
Running misdirection on third and one is scheme.
There is plenty of scheme to go around with execution Ole. Coaching is putting people in position to succeed.
If the scheme is faulty, you are not going to be able to execute it.
Click to expand...

That IS a called play, one that made Goodger a hero against Nebraska last year and scored a TD against Michigan to John Rabe in 2012. Leidner shouldn't have thrown it, but it certainly has worked in the past. Credit TCU and Patterson for being ready for it.

Berkley is going to have to be a RB at some point, I have no problem running him up the middle a few times a game to keep the defense honest when he's in the game.

Roderick was certainly running well, Kirkwood had some good runs too. I don't see why that's a huge problem especially with Williams' problems pass blocking and Kirkwood's skill at it.

There were plays there to be made and plenty of drops, missed blocks, and missed passes.
Compound that with TCU being all over the field, i don't see our getting whomped as a problem of scheme or talent, but the turnovers and field position issues certainly reflect a lack of gameplan execution by the players.
In the end we'll see how good TCU is and how good we are. We still can be a top tier B1G team this year.
 

Unregistered User said:
(then) #9 USC:

Rushing yards - 20
Passing yards - 317

Boston College:

Rushing yards - 452
Passing yards - 54

BC wins 37 - 31.

I didn't see the game, but it is easy to assume that BC executed their plan, where we did not...at all.

This is quite dramatic, and I really want to see better balance with the Gophers, but we'll be a running team, plain and simple. We need better efficiency in the passing game, and that is obvious to everyone, but the biggest thing we need to do until we have the depth that the team needs, is to out-execute the other team.
Click to expand...


I didnt say the team with the most passing yards would win every game. The team with the most passing yards will win a majority of the games, imo.

If MN is a run first team, then MN is doing a poor job of it. And if you cant dominate in the running game, you best be able to effectively pass the ball. Unless, of course, wins dont matter.
 

"Compound that with TCU being all over the field, i don't see our getting whomped as a problem of scheme"

We were unfamiliar with their strengths, style of play on defense before the game started? If you got two seven foot kids in basketball and my tallest player is 6 feet two and I don't harass the daylights out of your guards all 94 feet, all game, all over the court but instead let you pass into the 7 foot kids at your leisure are you going to say, "Gosh 60's, they had the two 7 foot kids who just couldn't be stopped. Then you only got one shot on offense and the threes weren't falling. Nothing you could do, 60's" Is that what you'd say? Or would you ask why we didn't run and also attack the basket in the half court, attempting to get the big guys in foul trouble to limit their playing time?

We had a bad game plan versus Iowa and you can add TCU to the list.
 

Ok so we are all frustrated in our offense. whats the fix?

Why not try some short passes with a chance for a long run after the catch? What i am seeing is that we have routes calling for 15-30 yards and as of last saturday our OL is not giving the QB time for those mid to long routes.

I am so frustrated with the OL coach that I cant even say his name without my blood pressure going through the roof.

other schools run the read option and have a short passing game. they compliment each other. but we seem not to want to even throw those. with 1st and 10 we try a mid to long routes and get incompletes. I am not against those if everything is clicking but they are not right now
 

We seem to get completely discombobulated when playing a fast team with a hurry up offense. Our slow, lumbering style of play just doesn't cut it nowadays. How many very good teams have this style now?
MSU-nope
OSU-nope
Oregon-nope
FSU-nope

I'm sure there are a ton others I can't recall at the moment. I do understand ground and pound but we need to move quicker as a team with our plays. Faster teams just confuse us to no extent.

JMHO
 

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