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Is this one of those "detect the idiot" threads? I'm seeing a lot of them.
 

beat bucky said:
For the record, I'm not saying Perra is going to be anything. All I'm saying is we've seen Gray, we've seen Nelson, we've seen Leidner, we've seen Streveler- they are all "run first" QBs and none of them have made this offense work in conference or against quality competition. Last I looked, this is supposed to be big time college football. The coach's job is not to nurse players' egos and let the team be damned for another year- it is to find kids that can play winning football NOW. Jerry Kill may have to grudgingly accept the fact that he isn't running isn't a directional school program anymore and raise his expectations.
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beat bucky is officially son-of-dboy.
love it!

i am already on record that perra would start as a true freshman walk-on.. i'm almost in the money.
 

someone this past summer compared Leidner to Brees. poster found no allies.
 


The problem is not necessarily Mitch. Don't get me wrong. I was at TCU and he stunk the place up. The real problem was is Nx forever shall be the O line. We have a line coach that doesn't know what he is doing AT THIS LEVEL. Secondly, it is impossible to have an effective power running game without a great O line. Don't blame the QB, he can't make a difference with our current line.
 


I guess the critics are right. A walk-on just can't make it. He must not have the talent. Uh...except for these walk-ons... Clay Matthews USC, Brandon Weedon OK ST, Jason Abbrederis WIS, Jordan Kovacs MICH, Logan Mankins FRES ST, Spencer Long NEB, Daryl Washington TCU, Jordy Nelson K ST, Adam Archuleta ARIZ ST, Rashad Johnson AL, Colt Brennan HAW, JJ Watt WIS, Ezekiel Ansah BYU, Jim Leonhard WIS, Santana Moss MIA, Levi Jones ARIZ ST.
Yeah, Jacques, just quit now.
 

ncgo4 said:
The problem is not necessarily Mitch. Don't get me wrong. I was at TCU and he stunk the place up. The real problem was is Nx forever shall be the O line. We have a line coach that doesn't know what he is doing AT THIS LEVEL. Secondly, it is impossible to have an effective power running game without a great O line. Don't blame the QB, he can't make a difference with our current line.
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The O-line has been bad, yes. But Leidner had receivers open. Not wide open, but open enough. He either never saw them or completely missed them by yards.

The bigger issue is this coaching staff's philosophy towards QB and how they recruit the position. Having the only true passing QB on the team be a freshmen walk-on is the result.
 

BJN said:
The O-line has been bad, yes. But Leidner had receivers open. Not wide open, but open enough. He either never saw them or completely missed them by yards.

The bigger issue is this coaching staff's philosophy towards QB and how they recruit the position. Having the only true passing QB on the team be a freshmen walk-on is the result.
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Well stated!
 

beat bucky said:
That, my friend, is a mindless post. Nobody is saying that Perra is another Brees or Brady. The comparison was in regards to the fact that none were as highly recruited as you might expect, and that recruiting status is not always a predictor of QB ability or success.
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Yes, but listing 2 guys who were unheralded and pretending that should somehow convince us that Perra's complete lack of offers is meaningless is ridiculous. How about we start listing all the walk-on QBs at Power 5 programs since Tom Brady was a freshman that weren't successful in college? You realize that list would be 1000 players long, right?

So if the argument is that Perra has a 0.2% chance of being a successful starting QB in college, sure, granted. But I don't think that's what people are really wanting us to think.

EDIT: I see that beat bucky has expanded it to include 10 guys who weren't QBs. OK, so the number now becomes 10 out of 10,000 or 0.1%.
 



There are some key facts lurking here.

The most important being this:

There are hundreds of kids out there who can be a functional B10 quarterback. Hundreds. They exist at almost all levels of play. They're everywhere.

Why can't we find and keep one?
 

beat bucky said:
I guess the critics are right. A walk-on just can't make it. He must not have the talent. Uh...except for these walk-ons... Clay Matthews USC, Brandon Weedon OK ST, Jason Abbrederis WIS, Jordan Kovacs MICH, Logan Mankins FRES ST, Spencer Long NEB, Daryl Washington TCU, Jordy Nelson K ST, Adam Archuleta ARIZ ST, Rashad Johnson AL, Colt Brennan HAW, JJ Watt WIS, Ezekiel Ansah BYU, Jim Leonhard WIS, Santana Moss MIA, Levi Jones ARIZ ST.
Yeah, Jacques, just quit now.
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What about all the other walk-ons? What percent of all walk-ons in FBS do these 16 players represent? Even though you can pick the exceptions to the rule, or the outliers, doesn't mean the overall trend is any different. Let's take Nebraska for example. How many of these names stand out as college performers?

Let's just take Nebraska as an example. Here's a list of walk-ons from 2003-2011.

Seth White
Pat Rickets
Fred Thorne
Jerrell Pippens
Tim Liley
Ryan Ommert
Cody Volk
Josh Sewell
Jack Limbaugh
Brett Lindstrom
Andy Wingender
Dale Endorf
Steve Safranek
Curt Tomasvicz
Chad Buller
Kevin Guse
Alex Shada
Kyle Larsen**
Delrick Williams
Mark Brungardt
MItch Reeves
Derric Werner
Chad Sievers
Dan Burrow
Kellen Houston
Joel Jackson
Dusty Keiser
Jeff McBride
Jack O'Holleran
Kiffin Wigert
Nathan Krug
Garth Glissman
Chris LeFlore
Brian Hohen
Travis Gingery
Zack Miller
Sam Koch**
Tyler Fisher
Adam Ickes
Shamus McKoy
Matt O'Shea
Brandon Koch
Jake Peetz
Joey Robison
Matt Schroeder
Shane Siegel
Blake Tiedke
Grant Mulkey
Chris Bryant
Mike Sampogna
Tyler Kenney
Adam Futwengler
Eric Lueshen
Stewart Bradley*
Andy Kadavy
Lane Kelly
Newton Ligenfelter
Brandon Rigoni
Will Otto
Mark O'Shea
Ben Eisnhart
Dan Erickson
Kevin Luhrs
Tyler Kester
Sean Hill
Andy Poulosky
Thomas Rice
Andy Sand
Matt Senske
Tony Sullivan
Todd Peterson
Dan Titchener
Justin Baumgartner
Thomas Lawson
T.J. O'Leary
Hunter Teafatiller
Tyler Wortman
Jake Wesch
Justin Makovicka
Wes Cammack
Colton Koehle
Derek Meyer
Matt O'Hanlon
Dan Glassman
Adam Watson
Thomas Grove
Dreu Young
Alex Henery**
Tyrone Fahie
Joe Broekemeir
Faron Klingelhoefer
Austin Cassidy
Lance Thorell
Kevin Thomsen
Mathew May
Jay Martin
Luke Lingenfelter
Tyler Legate
Jim Ebke
Jon Damkroger
Mike Caputo
Austin Jones

**All-Conference Selection
*Honorable Mention All-Conference

Look at all those future NFL stars! Walk-ons are a can't miss opportunity, with a high hit-rate of success! Especially for non-kicking positions!
 


Gopher07 said:
What about all the other walk-ons? What percent of all walk-ons in FBS do these 16 players represent? Even though you can pick the exceptions to the rule, or the outliers, doesn't mean the overall trend is any different. Let's take Nebraska for example. How many of these names stand out as college performers?

Let's just take Nebraska as an example. Here's a list of walk-ons from 2003-2011.



Seth White
Pat Rickets
Fred Thorne
Jerrell Pippens
Tim Liley
Ryan Ommert
Cody Volk
Josh Sewell
Jack Limbaugh
Brett Lindstrom
Andy Wingender
Dale Endorf
Steve Safranek
Curt Tomasvicz
Chad Buller
Kevin Guse
Alex Shada
Kyle Larsen**
Delrick Williams
Mark Brungardt
MItch Reeves
Derric Werner
Chad Sievers
Dan Burrow
Kellen Houston
Joel Jackson
Dusty Keiser
Jeff McBride
Jack O'Holleran
Kiffin Wigert
Nathan Krug
Garth Glissman
Chris LeFlore
Brian Hohen
Travis Gingery
Zack Miller
Sam Koch**
Tyler Fisher
Adam Ickes
Shamus McKoy
Matt O'Shea
Brandon Koch
Jake Peetz
Joey Robison
Matt Schroeder
Shane Siegel
Blake Tiedke
Grant Mulkey
Chris Bryant
Mike Sampogna
Tyler Kenney
Adam Futwengler
Eric Lueshen
Stewart Bradley*
Andy Kadavy
Lane Kelly
Newton Ligenfelter
Brandon Rigoni
Will Otto
Mark O'Shea
Ben Eisnhart
Dan Erickson
Kevin Luhrs
Tyler Kester
Sean Hill
Andy Poulosky
Thomas Rice
Andy Sand
Matt Senske
Tony Sullivan
Todd Peterson
Dan Titchener
Justin Baumgartner
Thomas Lawson
T.J. O'Leary
Hunter Teafatiller
Tyler Wortman
Jake Wesch
Justin Makovicka
Wes Cammack
Colton Koehle
Derek Meyer
Matt O'Hanlon
Dan Glassman
Adam Watson
Thomas Grove
Dreu Young
Alex Henery**
Tyrone Fahie
Joe Broekemeir
Faron Klingelhoefer
Austin Cassidy
Lance Thorell
Kevin Thomsen
Mathew May
Jay Martin
Luke Lingenfelter
Tyler Legate
Jim Ebke
Jon Damkroger
Mike Caputo
Austin Jones

**All-Conference Selection
*Honorable Mention All-Conference

Look at all those future NFL stars! Walk-ons are a can't miss opportunity, with a high hit-rate of success! Especially for non-kicking positions!
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Yeah I guess those Gopher scholarship QBs are proving how much better they are than walk-ons Weeden (NFL 1st rounder) and Brennan (NCAA record holder).
 



beat bucky said:
Yeah I guess those Gopher scholarship QBs are proving how much better they are than walk-ons Weeden (NFL 1st rounder) and Brennan (NCAA record holder).
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Jesus Christ you don't get it. Cherry-picking outliers to prove your point is ridiculous. What about all the other walk-on QBs in the past 10 years? Where are they? What impact did they make?

Maybe Perra is better than Leidner and Streveler right now, and maybe our coaches are either a) too stubborn or b) too stupid to put him on the field. Or, maybe (like the overwhelming majority of walk-ons, particularly walk-on freshmen) he's not better right now, and the coaches aren't stubborn and dumb. I'm choosing to believe the latter is the most likely scenario, it seems you believe the former is the most likely. Let's leave it at that.
 

I'm beginning to think the fact that Perra "wasn't" seen by "this staff" as a scholarship QB might be the best recommendation he has going!
 

Gopher07 said:
Jesus Christ you don't get it. Cherry-picking outliers to prove your point is ridiculous. What about all the other walk-on QBs in the past 10 years? Where are they? What impact did they make?

Maybe Perra is better than Leidner and Streveler right now, and maybe our coaches are either a) too stubborn or b) too stupid to put him on the field. Or, maybe (like the overwhelming majority of walk-ons, particularly walk-on freshmen) he's not better right now, and the coaches aren't stubborn and dumb. I'm choosing to believe the latter is the most likely scenario, it seems you believe the former is the most likely. Let's leave it at that.
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Look I agree with you! Perra is a long shot. I'm just saying let's not dismiss the kid because Limegrover can't figure out if he can run an offense.
 

beat bucky said:
Well, I may be using a little hyperbole. But you know what I find encouraging. This thread has a lot of interest. That tells me I'm not the only one who sees that the QB problem at the U is weighing this program down. And that it needs to be solved.
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You thought you were the only one that has noticed a production issue at QB? Really?
 

beat bucky said:
Look I agree with you! Perra is a long shot. I'm just saying let's not dismiss the kid because Limegrover can't figure out if he can run an offense.
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Fair enough. I don't think we (the coaches especially) should dismiss him either, and I sincerely hope he's getting a fair shot to show that he can help us win more games than the other QBs.
 

beat bucky said:
Look I agree with you! Perra is a long shot. I'm just saying let's not dismiss the kid because Limegrover can't figure out if he can run an offense.
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How about giving CS5 a chance before you dismiss him???
 

To BTN's point, has anyone seen the Demry Croft tape? Big kid, good speed, great strider, likes to run the ball, but throws with a short slinging motion. Anybody see a maddening trend?
 

beat bucky said:
Look I agree with you! Perra is a long shot. I'm just saying let's not dismiss the kid because Limegrover can't figure out if he can run an offense.
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Coaches careers depend on winning football games. If they honestly believed based on everything they see in practice, in the film room and in any of the other ways they evaluate players that Perra gave them the best chance to win a game he would be under center. This isn't the NFL where a rookie might have to give way to a high priced veteran because the team has a lot of money invested in him.

The kid is a walk on QB. Sure there is a chance he could be the next great NFL prospect but more then likely he is a kid with some ability who just wants to keep playing football for a few more years before starting real life.
 

Spoofin said:
How about giving CS5 a chance before you dismiss him???
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That's fair enough. But my plan would be to start him a couple games to see if he plays like anything that resembles a winning QB, then Perra, then Rhoda, then McKinzy...until you find a player. No one should be "given" the job based solely on seniority. It doesn't work well in football or in unions.
 

beat bucky said:
Yeah I guess those Gopher scholarship QBs are proving how much better they are than walk-ons Weeden (NFL 1st rounder) and Brennan (NCAA record holder).
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Another to your list, this one in conference: Matt McGloin did a heck of a job as a walk-on QB, 3-year starter at PSU recently, who beat out at least two highly-touted 4-star recruits, one of whom was the starter before McGloin took over.

Quarterbacking isn't so much ability to throw the ball, more the ability to see the field and command the offense.
 

cncmin said:
Another to your list, this one in conference: Matt McGloin did a heck of a job as a walk-on QB, 3-year starter at PSU recently, who beat out at least two highly-touted 4-star recruits, one of whom was the starter before McGloin took over.

Quarterbacking isn't so much ability to throw the ball, more the ability to see the field and command the offense.
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I don't think anyone is arguing that Perra doesn't have as equally bright future as Streveler or Leidner. I think they are arguing that it would be insane to play a true freshman walk-on and expect success.

I agree McGloin is a good example. He didn't really play until his sophomore year and I am pretty sure PSU would have liked to see him return for 2013 rather than burning a year in 2009.

Note also that McGloin did not start until October 30 of his sophomore year so had a year and half in the program before he started.
 

From quick browsing this thread, lots of people seem to be worried / throw out the "Walk-on" comment when it comes to Perra (You can include Rhoda in that as well). But when you step back and look at the 3 of them (Leidner, Rhoda, Perra), what is the difference? A Gophers scholarship offer + opportunity to play. Mitch was a Gophers offer away from playing D1-AA (like Rhoda + Perra had the opportunity to do on scholarship) or walking on. Mitch is 1 year older than Rhoda, 2 years older than Perra... all 3 played high school football in MN, and all 3 were primarily recruited by smaller schools / D1AA. Perra arguably had the best high school career, Rhoda possibly better than Leidner.
 

I think the most damning thing about Leidner is how quick he is to give up on the pass, you can see him drop back quick look then almost immediately hunch his shoulders over and choose to run even in situations (3rd and long short of the 50) where clearly the only way to keep the drive alive is to gut it out look for another receiver and if it isn't there at least you gave it a chance. Running on 3rd and long on our side of the field and gaining 2 yards is not much better than taking a knee. If two years in you can't cure a guy of that tendency then it may be time to move on. Especially when his other numbers (throwing accuracy, etc..) don't redeem him from that trait.

Seems to be a common place we keep getting back to, where just after we have seen enough of a guy to see what he has got we are ready to move on to anyone out of the grab bag in hopes they will be better.
 

beat bucky said:
Well, I may be using a little hyperbole. But you know what I find encouraging. This thread has a lot of interest. That tells me I'm not the only one who sees that the QB problem at the U is weighing this program down. And that it needs to be solved.
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So you think you are going to find the solution here? Just remember, this is the site where a poster today suggested that the solution to all our problems is to bring Glen Mason back.:rolleyes:
 

beat bucky said:
That's fair enough. But my plan would be to start him a couple games to see if he plays like anything that resembles a winning QB, then Perra, then Rhoda, then McKinzy...until you find a player. No one should be "given" the job based solely on seniority. It doesn't work well in football or in unions.
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Oh, so you're willing to give a freshman QB "a couple games." I think that tells me all I need to know.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
Some Day...Is Coming! said:
I don't think it much mattered who u had at QB at TCU. The team wasn't ready for that level of intensity. There's something to be said for getting a team jacked up and ready to play. Even with that said, the way TCU's defense dominated every position of our offense, it wouldn't of much mattered who started that game at QB.

Talented kid Perra is and yes he can pass. That said the coaches know better than to throw another Freshman to the wolves. Did that once already, the O-line is banged up and your number one tailback has a gimpy wheel and some people want
to toss a true freshman out so he can get his brains beat out with no offensive line continuity and injury's starting to linger and pile up. This, tossing the True freshman quarterback in is a bad idea. This is why the professionals get paid and the rest of us sit around campfires drinking beer and drawing up plays, or try knew things out on Playstation. Everything sounds great in theory until you have to try and execute it.
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Redshirt him, amd we'll have him and Roden-McKinzy starting next year as quality backups.
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None of us are at practices, nor do we have decades of NCAA coaching experience. So its hard to armchair crown a QB. That being said, if he is so loyal to leidner, that loyalty may be overriding the experience. His desire to stick it out may be preventing kill from seeing the forest though the trees, so to speak.
 

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